Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Any religion honoring individuals as 'saints' is no different from other
scientific fields which honors those who made a major contribution to
the particular field; or fundamentally inspired others; or shifted the
line of
thinking leading to a paradigm
--- On Thu, 8/7/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
***Let me correct the statement: Miracles are assessed by
scientific procedures as being extraordinary events,
beyond the reach of of physical laws.
Dr.Santosh Helekar replied: The above statement is wrong. No scientific
Fr.Ivo wrote: Miracles are assessed by scientific procedures as being
extraordinary events,
beyond the reach of the physical laws.
I am giving more information about Lourdes Miracles.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
Cures and Miracles
Near the busy medical bureau is a fascinating photographic display of
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As you can see, the procedure described below is clearly not a scientific
procedure of any kind.
***After all kinds of tests and monitoring, after all research by physicians
of different nations and faiths (or no-faith), after long follow-up, it is
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As you can see, the procedure described below is clearly not a scientific
procedure of any kind.
***I am giving here the report of the Eucharistic miracle. We believe in the
real presence of the Risen Lord in the Eucharist under the species of bread
and
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As you can see from the post quoted below, contrary to earlier claims
not even a bureaucratic committee meeting was called to certify these
incredible miracles, let alone follow any kind of genuine scientific
procedure.
***It was subsequently studied by
From: Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is a saying :A wise man knows what he says, a fool says what he
knows. We as medical doctors mostly say what we know from books,
literature, journals, and broadcasted news. But do we know what we say?
We say if you smoke, it causes
From: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have not being opening any of the posts on this subject simply
because it is beyond common sense that it is in Lourdes
that God concentrates on answering requests and providing miracles.
If God cannot find you in your living room, s/he is not going to find
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
His study confirmed that the flesh and blood were of human
origin. The flesh was unequivocally cardiac tissue, and the blood was of
type AB.
The type AB blood means that the owner
confirm our faith in the words of Jesus. There is no conflict with
Science, it goes beyond the natural, phenomenal realm. It is, therefore,
called supernatural. Christian religion is historical revelation of God.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The level of gullibility displayed in the quoted post indicates that the
people involved in propagating such miracles do not want their claims to
be subjected to real scientific tests, and face the prospect of
disillusionment.
***This is wrong. The Church
From: Albert Desouza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Miracles are taking place in everyone's life. The very fact we are alive
is a great miracle.
***I do agree with you: the Universe is itself a miracle, our existence is a
miracle,
every event of our life is a miracle. St.Augustine would speak of the
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...more importantly, modern science teaches us that it is foolish to
draw premature conclusions from lack of knowledge about something at any
given time.
***Right. Science has its limitations. These conclusions do not belong to
its competence.
Science
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think as of January 21, 2008 Julia Kim and her followers have been
excommunicated by the Archbishop because of the possibility of fraud, and
the embarrassment these unruly miraculous events that she is staging,
might be causing the Church.
***Yes, you
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...any scientific procedure requires that properly blinded and
objective researchers obtain quantitative data about the probability of
occurrence of the phenomenon under observation in the special condition
under study, and then compare this probability
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**In the case of Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, how can
you perform this scientific procedure?
So after all this talk about using a scientific procedure to certify
miracles, we have
- Original Message -
From: Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Lourdes Miracles
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 8/10/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How can
From: Albert Desouza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***I am reproducing the witness of those who have seen the white host being
transformed into flesh and blood, thus confirming the words of Jesus of
his real presence in the Eucharist through transubstantiation. I hope that
the readers will see that there
.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jesus of his real presence in the Eucharist
through transubstantiation. I
hope that the readers will see that there are
Eucharistic miracles in
our times.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
From: raju gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There seems to be quite a hue and cry about the miracles.
***Precisely because they happen, but are being denied by some scientists.
SEEK N YOU SHALL FIND...
I am seeing that the revelations by our lady of fatima, are happening, may
be I sought - so why
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I think that Fr.Ivo and others would do well to heed the following
excerpts from
the authoritative 1998 decree of the concerned Archbishop regarding the
fraudulent miracles of this mystic called Julia Kim:
***I have quoted Roman Danylak, titular bishop
From: J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I do understand that there is a scientific committee and a process
for these miracles - BUT if any process is going to be accepted, the
process has to be open and transparent. I suggest that IF we really
want to investigate ANY matter - we should invite
From: ralph rau [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last time I heard Goanet was a forum for discussing social issues of
concern to Goans and not debating matters of faith.
***Which are social issues of concern to Goans? We are hearing a lot about
them. We can hear them being debated in the Legislative Assembly
From: Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For a scientist Santosh, you have written a particularly unscientific
reply.
In what was a Faith thread, all I said was that faith was worn as a
badge of learning in your case and as a social statement badge by
Kevin. I then went on to explain what faith
From: Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why all this heated debate about 'miracles'? What are they worth
anyway?
***People are running for healings and miracles precisely because they touch
their daily lives. They are in need, they are worth anyway
From: Cip Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rev. Fr. Ivo C. da Souza,
How can you convince a colour blind person that colours exist?
***I do agree with you. I had a lot of discussions with people of other
faiths ( or no-faith) and denominations.
Sometimes it is quite enriching, when there is openness
From: J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using a selectively mutilated quote of what I (jc) had written i.e.
***Sorry, Dr.Jose Colaço, for keeping your quote shortened. This happened
by mistake (not selectively mutilated)--the first words were deleted by
mistake and I added check if:. Nothing
From: Agnelo Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I cannot make anyone believe in anything, it is one's own prerogative
whether they want to believe or not. But I do fully agree and believe in
miracles. Isn't the Birth of a new life a miracle?
*** We do accept the possibility and the fact of miracles.
From: J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2008/8/26 Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1: Both Jose and Fr. Ivo are Catholics who believe in miracles.
2: Jose has always said that he believes in them because of his faith
May I agree with #1 above and disagree with #2 - as stated by you?
In my
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Mon, 8/25/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When it is already closed mind to the supernatural, even scientific
evidence will not convince. Intellectual probity is necessary.
Scientific myopia will close the eyes and not allow to see
From: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is the opposite true? If someone dies in an accident, there is no miracle,
hence no God? Given there are many deaths in car accidents, should we
conclude God does not exist just as some conclude God exists if they
survive the accident?
***Good question!
From: Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fr. Ivo writes of faith and miracles and there are pseudo-scientists
and some men of learning on this forum who think that their education
qualifies them to deny God and his existence. They deny that miracles
happen, not knowing what really is a miracle.
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dr.Santosh asked for a double-blind control (read below), admitting
himself that this is difficult for such rare cases. The proposed method
itself excludes all miracles.
The proposed
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jose wrote:
In my clinical experience (of some years now) there have been some
unexpected cures/recoveries. They have been amazing and wonderful
occurrences inexplicable by our current knowledge. Until I find
scientific explanations for the cures, I
From: Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Notes of Chapter 6: Cracking Da Vinci's Code - You have read the fiction,
now read the facts
by GJ
False statements of DB in the 'Da Vinci Code':
1. The Bible is a product of man .. (pg 241)
2. The New Testament is false testimony (pg 342)
3 The Bible was
From: Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
***Well done, Dr.Gilbert Lawrence. Our duty is to enlighten
those who are in
error.
If Da Vinci Code is a fiction, let people know why it is a
fiction and not
history.
Being a scientist
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fr. Ivo wrote:
Your scientific method cannot be used, as you only admit. Even now I
cannot understand your method for such cases. About your scientific
method, it is the method to be used for common clinical cases.
The barrage of posts that Fr. Ivo has
From: Laluram Salvi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Following are the list of abuses from one such book – Satya
Darshini –
distributed by the missionaries of New Life. This book is in Kannada and the
translation of the abusive passage is as follows.
Urvashi – the daughter of Lord Vishnu – is a
From: Laluram Salvi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lot of articles have been written on Goanet on violence in Orissa which
reflects only one side of it. Most of the post were influenced by biased
opinions of anti Hindu journalist and media.
***Dear Laluram Salvi,
I do not know who you are. You know who I
TRI Continental Film Festival - Dona Paula, Goa, Sep 28 - Oct 2, 2007
http://www.moviesgoa.org/tricontinental/tricon.htm
For public viewing. Registration at The International Centre Goa. (Ph:
+91-832-2452805 to 10)
To Santosh Helekar:
***The theologian has no problem whatsover with the original findings
in the field of population genetics. I do congratulate Dr.Santosh and
thank him for the write-up regarding Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza's book,
Genes, Peoples and Languages. It provides knowledge about the
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The above confusing statement and the morass of
confusion evident in the rest of Fr. Ivo's latest post
in this thread is precisely the disadvantage of using
religious myths as strained metaphors for scientific
facts.
***Dr.Santosh is misunderstanding my
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have read books on Eucharistic Miracles written by authors with
scientific background.
The ignorance about what is meant by science and its purpose continues.
Students of science know that a book about
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
***I do not understand the logic of Dr.Santosh.
This inability to understand is understandable given the evident lack
of clarity about what constitutes genuine science
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A very moving article written by Karan Thapar. Read on.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePageid=38bd540e-98aa-4041-aaf6-88717cb2b6c1Headline=A+time+for+Father+Terry
***Dear Marshall Mendonça,
I do appreciate your work to find out
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1202648
Dear Marshall,
Calmly but firmly our church leaders will affirm life and truth.
Let the Government do its work at least now. People have lost faith
in police and political leaders. Chaos in India will take us not to the
Dear Goannetters,
I would like to answer the following statements, since to my mind they
distort the speech of the Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor
and reduce him to an 'agnostic'. This is not to hurt the author of these
statements, Dr.Santosh Helekar, who is free to pursue his own opinions.
I do
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*** The Cardinal is not, therefore, saying what
Dr.Santosh is making him
say...
***Thanks to Dr.Santosh for providing me with the link of the lecture
of the Cardinal Cormack Murphy-O'Connor.
I had stated
From: CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What the Cardinal (Murphy-O'Connor) said in London is
exactly as quoted by Santosh. Santosh has made nothing
up as you imply. Nor is he making him [the Cardinal]
say anything.
***Quoting a passage outside the context is not to say exactly what the
From: Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I too along with Santosh and Cornel feel that you are
completely spinning what the Cardinal said.
***Read the full lecture and try to understand it. Like Dr.Santosh and
Cornel you have not understood well the full lecture.
In other words, he has in one
, but words from the Gospel.
It is in this context that the whole speech of the Cardinal has to be read
and understood.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
God is the meaning that secures the meaning of all
that I do, all that I am, all that we can be as
humankind
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I cannot see how Dr.Santosh found what he is
stating...
In my last post I have stated what the Cardinal said.
...Others like Fr. Ivo will interpret his words in a manner that
pleases them, or reaffirms their own beliefs.
***You have to interpret his
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am stating again that the Cardinal did not say what
is being quoted, he means exactly the contrary.
God is not to be treated as an object of science, but
as a mystery, as a living reality that exists and can
be experienced.
***I was reacting to the
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have simply shown that the Cardinal seems to believe
in a God who is NOT a fact in the world nor an idea
nor a hypothesis that can be proved or disproved - a
God who is a mystery that cannot be conceptually
From: CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dear Fr Ivo
Apropos this discussion, your explanation for the
existence of a God is perfectly understandable as from
a sincere clergyman. To me, much such explanation is
akin to mysticism that one tends to either accept or
reject.
Often, my dear Fr Ivo,
From: floriano [EMAIL PROTECTED]
With due respect to Fr. Ivo, and not in the least intending to be
anything but genuinely concerned, I belive that what is going around in
the the name of God is nothing but a 'MLM' (multi-level-marketing)
marketing GOD left-right and center, one more
From: Albert Desouza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For so many days I have been reading what cardinal said what Fr.Ivo
said --- and what the readers said.--- Why do you wash the linen on this
goanet?
***I do admire the postings of Albert, whom I know personally. It is a good
job to write and express
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest
Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road,
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest
Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road,
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest
Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road,
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If his (Einstein's) mental and perceptual
powers did miraculously survive the death of his
brain, he would be expected to perceive Jewish heaven
or hell, where he would not meet St. Peter - not even
Shimon Keipha. Unless, of course, only Christianity is
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
By my scientific calculations, it won't be long before
we all know the correct answers to all these
possibilities. Until then all we can do is blow lots
and lots of speculative hot air on the subject since
everyone admits that the existence of God cannot be
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What Russell failed to take into account is that such
a teapot, once conceived, exists in his mind as well
as the minds of his readers. Any mental representation
has a physical form in the brain. It determines
subsequent behavior. That is why no one can
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is a step foreward that Dr.Santosh has come back
with the Cardinal might say,
after he was adamant in quoting him and
understanding him as saying that God is not a fact
in the world, that he does
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
God is not a fact in the world, as though God could
be treated as one thing among other things to be
empirically investigated, affirmed or denied on the
basis of observation.
...Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor
Any objective person reading the above would
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It would also be interesting to find out how many
educated people seriously hold the view that science
should not ignore supernatural ideas that are
unprovable.
***Lightening damaged my modem/router and I could not work on Internet.
Let it be clear from
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sun, 6/15/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Therefore, there is no sense in saying that science
should not ignore supernatural ideas that are unprovable.
They are unprovable by empirical sciences. There is
verifiability of Faith. Let
Dear Goanetters,
In some postings of this Forum
it was said that Albert Einstein was an atheist.
There were rejoinders to them. I would like to quote his own words,
wherein he says that he is neither an atheist nor a pantheist.
***Albert Einstein wrote: In view of such harmony in the cosmos
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sun, 6/15/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But it will enlighten Science in the meaning of the world and in the
realm of values.
I hope most people will reject interference of this type. The meaning of
scientific concepts
AN UNKNOWN FREEDOM FIGHTER
We do remember our freedom fighters. Each one of them has done a lot
for the liberation of Goa. I have come to know about one of them who has
remained unknown, though he has been living as a man for others.
Professor Carlos da Cruz was a man of character,
From: Bernado Colaco ole_...@yahoo.co.uk
'But for the oppressed freedom'? Strange statement from Fr. Ivo, and truly
paradoxical in the age where the religion that he preaches is under the
threat of fundamentalists and terrorists in a 'liberated' Goa.
***This statement comes from the
From: Carvalho elisabeth_...@yahoo.uk
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com wrote:
Selma, Right to convert is NOT a basic right in a civil
society at least in
India. This reply is based on following facts:
Article 25(1) of Constitution of India guarantees
''freedom of
From: Bernado Colaco ole_...@yahoo.co.uk
Fr. Ivo with due respect to you and Sr. Carlos Cruz I have read the most
confusing post in a long time. I appreciate you quoting Christ please let
the flock learn more, but please devoid telling us that you live in the
greatest democracy. It is more of
From: Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com
Under subject mentioned as in above, Fr. Ivo C da Souza, on Sat, 12/20/08,
makes a good point saying: There have been cases of conversion by force
in
the 16th century, but that was never an official policy of the European
missionaries who worked
From: edward desilva guirim...@yahoo.co.uk
Hi,
Funny that.
Samir Kelekar wouldn't come with that sort of propaganda against God, during
Ganesh or Lakshmi Puja!
One sided opinionated people, why are they encouraged on Goanet?
Dear Goanetters, I was shocked and saddened to see such
From: julian Gonsalves juliangonsal...@yahoo.com
I am shocked, saddened and very bothered by these exchanges between Barad
and Fr Ivo.
***To correct misunderstandings on religion and conversions is not to stoop
so low.
I cant imagine that whatever religion we are we can stoop so
low.
***You
* * * * * * * * * ANNUAL GOANETTERS MEET * * * * * * * * *
Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
Mandovi
From: Pravin Sabnis pravinsab...@yahoo.com
I can personally vouch that my friend, Sandeep Heble is a very sensitive and
humane person in reality. His various postings on the Goanet reflect his
concern over the communal slants given to various topics. His views can be
challenged but to label
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/12 Fr. Ivo C da Souza icso...@bsnl.in:
A lot of hue and cry is being heard about cow slaughter...
If we can discuss about non-existence of God in this Forum, we can
certainly
hear different opinions about cow slaughter.
Hue and cry is a loaded term. It is entirely plausible that, being
an issue
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, people who believe that they
may have a spiritual experience are more likely to have one. But that is
hardly surprising; there is a spiritual dimension to the human being, though
many do not recognize it.
--- On Sat, 1/24/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza icso...@... wrote:
***Totally wrong
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will not be uncovered, because there is limited number of
Catholic schools and people are seeking
both excellence in studies and in values... There is no doubt that the
Church is playing a very important role in the education of children.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza icso...@bsnl.in
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...@yahoo.com
To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org;
chimbel...@yahoo.com
--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote:
--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza
icso...@bsnl.in wrote:
**The State is not a model in teaching to
critically discern
From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com
Fr. Ivo wrote:
Buddhism is a practical way of life. Christianity is a way of life
based on the truths revealed by God himself.
This pretty much sums up why we cannot learn about anything other than
Christianity from Fr. Ivo.
***I am not going to
From: Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com
This time it is violence in Jabalpur. Yet another BJP ruled state.
http://www.ucanews.com/2009/02/03/hindu-radicals-vandalize-catholic-school/
***While reading this posting, I read another article,
entitled India is shining, while orissa is burning
From: Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com
Yesterday I was with group of friends and as usual our topic of discussion
started from Bollywood to Hollywood to politics to religion. On religion,
one of our friend started talking on Dead Sea Scrolls. And none of us were
aware of the topic. Later
From: Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com
I still ask you Fr. Ivo for the proof which compels you to say that
Catholic
Schools are preferred all over India although my earlier response was
with
regards to our Goa. I maintain my response was equally correct in context
with entire India.
From: marlon menezes goa...@yahoo.com
...Finally, we need to acknowledge and deal with the christian extremists
in India too. I have fundamentalist relatives who continuously spout
venom against hindus and muslims and view the world in extreme shades of
black and white.
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