'Thomas Bushnell, BSG' via golang-nuts :
> I don't want to think about people objecting to anti-racist fundraising,
> and yet, here we are.
It's not "anti-racist fundraising" that anybody objects to. It's
politically loaded messaging.
> We all sometimes have to think about things we would rather
I'll say that my main suggestion is that such links only show in certain
regions. For example, youtube and google filter all kinds of stuff
depending on where you are.
Assuming American-style free speech exists everywhere go is used is not
good for anybody. This link sits atop all the godoc.org
I would like to again remind everyone to be respectful and charitable
in this discussion. Also, please ask yourself whether you really need
to keep this thread going. Consider letting someone else have the
last word, and being the more generous person and walking away.
Thanks.
Ian
--
You
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:27 AM 'Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts <
golang-nuts@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:04 PM Jon Reiter wrote:
>
>> Ok. I live in Singapore. Here is a statement from the Singapore Police
>> Force directly telling foreigners not to advocate for
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:30 PM Jon Reiter wrote:
> It's not difficult to imagine banners like "free (some geographic place)"
> or "remember (someone or some date)" causing severe problems. This banner
> differs only in degree of risk. It increases the risk of a problem by some
> non-0
Ok. I live in Singapore. Here is a statement from the Singapore Police
Force directly telling foreigners not to advocate for political causes or
risk being deported:
https://www.facebook.com/singaporepoliceforce/posts/10157358158324408
Is that concrete enough? That is a public post from an
I'm sorry, I think this trivializes real concerns that impact a significant
number of people. It is not hard to imagine a setting in many major cities
around a world where a banner like this appearing during a presentation or
training session could cause problems. I am not the source or enforcer
It's not difficult to imagine banners like "free (some geographic place)"
or "remember (someone or some date)" causing severe problems. This banner
differs only in degree of risk. It increases the risk of a problem by some
non-0 amount.
This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with the
I support the EJI 100%. That was not the white person or Ivory tower I was
referring to. As a person living with burned out and destroyed buildings on all
sides in one of the most violent cities in the US, I am too close to this issue
and will no longer comment. I only ask for compassion.
>
Who knew a 50px high desktop only banner was such a usability obstacle.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:00 PM 'Thomas Bushnell, BSG' via golang-nuts <
golang-nuts@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> I'm saddened by all the snowflakes who can't handle a message they
> disagree with for a second, which is
The Equal Justice Initiative is not "a white person shouting from their
ivory tower".
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:08 AM Robert Engels
wrote:
> Maybe I am confusing the lower case black lives matter with the BLM org
> and platform - the former I agree with wholeheartedly. I can assure you
> that
It might be helpful to know that the Equal Justice Initiative is strongly
supported by the Google.org foundation (
https://www.google.org/our-work/inclusion/equal-justice-initiative/) and
Google itself (
https://about.google/main/google-supports-equal-justice-initiative/), and
has been for years.
Maybe I am confusing the lower case black lives matter with the BLM org and
platform - the former I agree with wholeheartedly. I can assure you that
elements of the BLM platform are very fringe with little support in the
minority community- specifically the defund the police - so having a white
Eric: It's not your list. You don't get to decide the policies of the list.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 4:44 PM Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Sam Whited :
> > This is not a simple political issue, it is a personal human issue. It
> > is a social issue. It is a justice issue.
>
> It is the injection of
I'm saddened by all the snowflakes who can't handle a message they disagree
with for a second, which is literally costing them exactly nothing.
I'm also saddened by anyone who thinks the message itself is somehow
objectionable. But I won't stop being an anti-racist just because some
people are
[Note To and CC]
Please consider this a formal request for the Go Project Stewards to
review the website banners being discussed in this thread and to make a
determination that these banners are causing divisiveness in the Go
Community and have offended some, and that the banners' content is
To clarify, that was not the point I was trying to make. If the BLM banner
directed donations to BLM org I would have no issue, assuming BLM is a verified
not-for-profit.
The community leaders have a right to set the tone and focus for the group. The
community can support, accept, ignore or
I think long years of experience has shown that this is not the case.
This argument is made frequently and amounts to "let's just ignore the
issues and hope they go away because they only affect a minority among
us". This is one of the reasons for the lack of diversity in this
industry (at least
If the argument were what specific charity to put in the banner this
might be a discussion worth having, however I get the impression that
many of these people are arguing against including a banner at all.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, at 10:04, Robert Engels wrote:
> I think a more specific point to be
* Sam Whited [200615 09:34]:
> This is an important issue about the Go Community and who feels welcomed
> here, which is also covered by this mailing list.
This is _so_ wrong. The evidence that this banner has caused
substantial divisiveness and offended many members of the Go community
is
I think a more specific point to be made is that it is a few select people
speaking for the community. In fact, the associating of BLM with the EJI is
suspect. Neither org associates with the other and their platforms are in many
ways Incompatible.
As a 30+ year major inner city dweller I can
You're starting from the assumption that anything off-topic to the
language itself is bad. Why do you hold this position?
Even if we accept your position that anything slightly off topic is bad
(although I do not accept that position), this topic is relevant to
everyone trying to build a more
* 'Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts [200614 20:15]:
> No, what you said is, that objecting to the banner may not be *political*.
> You didn't mention parties and neither did I. And I stand by my statement,
> that objecting to the banner *is* inherently a political act. And that
> claiming to object
This is an important issue about the Go Community and who feels welcomed
here, which is also covered by this mailing list.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, at 09:18, K Davidson wrote:
> Please keep posts limited to things about go.
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On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:04 PM Jon Reiter wrote:
> Ok. I live in Singapore. Here is a statement from the Singapore Police
> Force directly telling foreigners not to advocate for political causes or
> risk being deported:
> https://www.facebook.com/singaporepoliceforce/posts/10157358158324408
This mailing list is for the Go Programming Language, there are other places on
the internet to discuss unrelated topics.
Please keep posts limited to things about go.
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On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:56 AM Jon Reiter wrote:
> It's not difficult to imagine banners like "free (some geographic place)"
> or "remember (someone or some date)" causing severe problems.
>
It's also not difficult to imagine Orcs and wizarding schools and
intergalactic star flight. Doesn't
Sam Whited :
> What makes you think this is somehow politics and not simply supporting
> an important not-for-profit at a time when it's particularly relevant
> and important to do so?
The ensuing dispute over its appropriateness is enough evidence that
it is political.
--
Can you be more specific about how this is a real issue? Like, do you have
precedent, where a banner-ad was the reason someone who linked to a page
for unrelated reasons was prosecuted? Would be interesting to have some
real cases so we get a clear picture of the threat here.
Because to be clear,
I share link to golang.org all the time and I'd be willing to serve as a
testcase for this. Feel free to report my alleged crimes to the police.
Claiming that simply sharing a link to the Go page is "advocating for a
foreign political cause" is clearly a bad-faith argument, so if you live in
the
Except now sharing links to golang.org, or showing those web pages at
events, could be argued as advocating for a foreign political cause. And
that's illegal in much of the world. Per google, google operates in 219
countries. This could force community members to argue in any of at least
219
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 8:12 AM andrey mirtchovski
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a non-profit I'd like to support. Who do I ask to put a banner
> on golang.org for me?
>
> (reductio ad absurdum)
>
This sounds like a great idea to me. It would probably need to be a
non-profit that furthers the Go
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 01:22 robert engels wrote:
> All I pointed out was that someone objecting to this may not be doing
> based on political party affiliations.
>
No, what you said is, that objecting to the banner may not be *political*.
You didn't mention parties and neither did I. And I
Let's please all remember to be respectful and charitable in this
discussion, per the gopher values in the code of conduct. Let's not let
this go off the rails. Thanks.
Ian
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I never said once that what the Go team was wrong, or not within their rights -
all I ever called for was transparency so people can educated decisions on the
subject. After more research into EJI I even stated I was wrong about possible
political affiliations in this case.
Maybe you were
In the context of a sufficiently large collection of people all actions
are political to some degree, *including inaction and non-comment*.
Where the boundary is for the degree on what constitutes a political
action and what doesn't varies between people.
On Sun, 2020-06-14 at 16:44 -0400, Eric
You could start here. If the Go team is comfortable putting a banner in its
support on the page, they might do so.
(You are using "reductio ad absurdum" wrong).
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:12 AM andrey mirtchovski
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a non-profit I'd like to support. Who do I ask to put a
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:08 AM Robert Engels
wrote:
> Equating not supporting this and supporting marginalized groups is not
> correct. You can support marginalized groups all day and disagree on how
> best to do so. It doesn’t have to be political at all.
>
No, it is *inherently* political
Hi,
I have a non-profit I'd like to support. Who do I ask to put a banner
on golang.org for me?
(reductio ad absurdum)
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 4:08 PM Robert Engels wrote:
>
> Equating not supporting this and supporting marginalized groups is not
> correct. You can support marginalized groups
Equating not supporting this and supporting marginalized groups is not correct.
You can support marginalized groups all day and disagree on how best to do so.
It doesn’t have to be political at all.
> On Jun 14, 2020, at 4:43 PM, 'Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> the
Hi,
the Go Team and the Go Project are composed of people and expressing an
opinion - *especially* a political one - is well within their right (If I
was a conservative American I would wax poetically about the first
amendment here).
Let's not pretend this is about politics or not. This is about
What makes you think this is somehow politics and not simply supporting
an important not-for-profit at a time when it's particularly relevant
and important to do so? I don't see anything political about the topic
unless you count that some of the solutions are political (but this one,
donating to
Sam Whited :
> This is not a simple political issue, it is a personal human issue. It
> is a social issue. It is a justice issue.
It is the injection of politics into a list where politics does not belong.
Kindly perform your virtue signalling elsewhere.
--
Thanks Sam for the details
Now it makes sense and I can see where it is coming from.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 7:44 PM Sam Whited wrote:
> They are directed to the Equal Justice Initiative which is a non-profit.
> In the united states 501(c)3 not-for-profit organizations are barred
> from certain
Thank you, I had already corrected my statement. Sorry to everyone.
> On Jun 14, 2020, at 9:13 AM, Sam Whited wrote:
>
> They are directed to the Equal Justice Initiative which is a non-profit.
> In the united states 501(c)3 not-for-profit organizations are barred
> from certain kinds of
They are directed to the Equal Justice Initiative which is a non-profit.
In the united states 501(c)3 not-for-profit organizations are barred
from certain kinds of political speech including endorsing individual
parties or candidates. The banner does not point to any particular
political party.
Major correction, this is not the .org I was thinking of. I have no knowledge
that what I said is the case with the EJI.
> On Jun 14, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Robert Engels wrote:
>
> I agree it is an important social issue, but in this particular case I
> believe the funds are directed to specific
I agree it is an important social issue, but in this particular case I believe
the funds are directed to specific political parties so the boundary between
supporting social issues and political contributions is murky. I am not saying
it shouldn’t be done but it should be more transparent.
>
This is not a simple political issue, it is a personal human issue. It
is a social issue. It is a justice issue. It seems quite obvious to me
that this is different than if they had put a fundraiser for a candidate
for office, for instance, in a banner.
It amazes me how often people come out of
I second Peter.
This is absolutely unbelievable.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 7:06 PM peterGo wrote:
> Recently, a political message with a fundraising link appeared as a banner
> atop golang.org websites: https://golang.org/, https://pkg.go.dev/.
>
> content/static: add Black Lives Matter banner to
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