This is plainly 20thC American, from my point of view. As someone has
already pointed out, the vision of Santa differs from culture to culture.
The Nast version is the first that I am aware of, which is influenced by the
description given in the Night Before Christmas(as it is now known)
Are you
snip Have you ever read Hunnisett's explanation of the costs asscoiated
with
making the Ditchley gown for the Elizabeth R series? Why does every
production of anything having to do with history have to be perfectly
accurate down to the seams? Should the have to go all the way and
have
Sinterklaas is also dressed in red and white.
Maby they looked at medieval clothes to make him look old, like he lives
forever.
And added white fur since he comes from the north?pole.
Kahlara wrote:
I don't know how accurate this is, but I had always
been told that prior to the Moore/Nast
Hi the list,
Folowed your thread, but just want to add my 2 cents here even if it is a
little painfull to hear!
First people dont have the eyes of experts. They dont see that the sleave is
curved or not!- period
This is the way things are, you just have to realise that.
It is only us costume
Excatly my words...
Bjarne
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - Elizabeth
In a message dated 9/21/2005 5:17:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
First all! i am sorry if i misspell pannier, is it panier?
You make very interresting points my ladies with this only rare hinged
pannier.
I have ben thinking that this pair of pannier was the example of how they
did, when they needed to be more flexible, and suddently invented the hip
Gold rush it is§ :-)
I like silk the better!
- Original Message -
From: Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century?
M...
Gold rush?
I
Oh yes Karen,
I think you have a point there,
Things in a new country so far from civilisation 3 or 4months away
I give up!
Its just like i hate another list ia m on called 18th century womens list,
and they dont care about fashion at all
But i am sure you are righ
Good weekend to youIn
In a message dated 9/21/2005 9:43:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I still can't bring myself to watch the darn thing, even
tho I loved seeing the costumes (accurate or otherwise).
Yes, some of the gowns are lov-er-ly. The men's stuff is dreadful! I really
hate
In a message dated 9/22/2005 10:30:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes,
stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history.
**
Yes the Renn thing is not
18th century for us is recent history. :) to get in touch with our roots,
we have to go back to the Old World.
arlys in oregon, where the first town was founded around 1860 or so
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:18:21 +0200 Bjarne og Leif Drews
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me!
There is an interesting twist here that hasn't been mentioned yet. Bjarne
asked why the Renaissance and not the 18th century, and the answers have all
been about renn fairs. There are other groups that do renaissance
(particularly if we expand that to the pseudo-renn fantasy thingie) than
Marc Carlson wrote:
There is an interesting twist here that hasn't been mentioned yet.
Bjarne asked why the Renaissance and not the 18th century, and the
answers have all been about renn fairs.
I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not
so many 18th century?
I think we in the U.S. may also have an actual TRADITION of Ren faires, whereas
reenactments of our own country's history are a more recent phenomenon.
According to James D. Hart's THE POPULAR BOOK: A HISTORY OF AMERICA'S LITERARY
TASTE (University of California Press, 1950), the novels of Sir
Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But seams are the easiest and cheapest thing to get right, no matter how
shoestring your budget is princess seams are no cheaper than a period cut
(in fact they would be marginally more expensive as they take up more
fabric) I can understand things like
If you are trying to find an inspirational source for the coca-cola Santa's
costume, research frontier clothing and explorer's garb a la Lewis and Clark.
Keep in mind however, that the coca-cola Santa's costume is likely to be at
least partly due to artistic inspiration and invention.
As to
Great question! For me, I think it what I was introduced to first from
a costume perspective. From a history perspective, I just find American
history to be too new. That being said, there are several of us (here
in Phoenix) who have been doing the Renaissance thing who are toying
with
Thank you everyone that responded (with the same answer too!). Laying it out
and embroidering before cutting makes perfect sense now that it has been
explained. I don't have a frame that big, but am thinking a quilting hoop -
about 22 inside diameter - might do the trick.
Another reminder for
Last year we had discussed the dress of Eleanora of Toledo that was on
display in Memphis. I wasn't sure if the link to the picture on the web had
been posted, so it is listed below. This picture is much better than
the one in the catalog.
http://www.wonders.org/masters8.htm
The website is
Kitty Felton wrote:
what is a Nast Santa?
Santa drawn by 19th century artist Thomas Nast. He did a whole bunch of
drawings of Santa and holiday scenes, among other things, and was quite
popular at the time. His drawings still show up on cards and wrapping
paper today.
Dawn
I don't think the question is What did Santa Claus wear?, but rather
Is the 20th century Santa costume based on anything historical? And if
so, what?
Dawn
otsisto wrote:
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp
http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p1557.htm
-Original Message-
Thanks for
Costume designers for movies set in historic times may want to be as
accurate as possible but face a lot of caveats:
The book Hollywood and History by Edward Maeder is an excellent guide
to the following
1) Designers are going to choose from sources that look most attractive
to the modern
Nah, to most Americans the 18th century is the remote past. As for
mythed up, you apparently weren't in my grade school American history
classes. True and false, we had the larger-than-life Founding Fathers
(even a few mothers), history told as stories. Washington and the
cherry tree.
I actually don't understand it either.
True, most of the current US was, in the 18th century, not a place for
silks and satins. But, as people are commenting, the SCA does all kinds
of eras and places remote from US history. So, why not have more groups
that do the fancy 18th century, even
A number of you have asked me to keep you updated on my lecture
appearances. I have two trips upcoming.
Sat., Nov. 18, St. Cloud, Minnesota: Clothier's Seminar North. Lots of
classes; I'll be doing four lectures. They're listed on the website, here:
Oh, that was a fun part. And how about when Elizabeth was shot at while in
her boat on a party on the river, and no one bothered to look for who did
it? As a Catholic, of course I was bemused by the very idea of Elizabeth
wearing white makeup and deciding never to marry in order to give England a
Bjarne,
I'm on the 18cWoman list and we are interested and do talk about
fashion, as well as many other topics. If you hate it, then
unsubscribe.
Oh yes Karen,
I think you have a point there,
Things in a new country so far from civilisation 3 or 4months away
I give up!
Its just like
Twas the night before Christmas was written by a Pastor trying to cheer his
children with a story. He started with St. Nicholas but the pastor is said
to have lightened the character up a bit as St. Nicholas was considered a
bit solemn in character.
It is said that the sleigh idea came from the
Personally, I play in the SCA because I can dress up alot...
What I'd prefer to do is to play dress up for several periods, and (I'm sorry)
for brevity let's just say from 1650 through 1900.
I love each of the different fashions that evolved and exploring each
development and their fabrics,
Bjarne, why not start your own discussion group about the 18th century,
focusing on clothes? I'll bet plenty of us here would love to join.
Michelle
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O yeah
Chris G.
Michelle Plumb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bjarne, why not start your own discussion group about the 18th century,
focusing on clothes? I'll bet plenty of us here would love to join.
Michelle
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Wow, I remember the discussion last year, but not the dress detail below
the waist. Interesting.
What is the manuscript you speak of Monica? I missed that part.
Saragrace
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Lavolta Press wrote:
Nah, to most Americans the 18th century is the remote past. As for
mythed up, you apparently weren't in my grade school American history
classes.
Oh, yeah, I've had those, but it's not all fairies and magic dust,
bizarre speech patterns, and bosoms. And some of those
From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
great myth)--fact is, the myths are a core of their own interest. I
think it's a good thing, as otherwise, what is history? A collection of
dry facts, arranged as scientifically as possible? Accurate, maybe;
emotionally involving, no.
Well, maybe not
The bosoms are for a somewhat older crowd. . . .
Some medieval myths, such as King Arthur, probably have some roots in
real events. We just don't know for sure what those are.
But my point is, we _do_ have American historical myths and they have a
powerful effect on Americans. This may not
There is a difference between a goal and a motivation, what leads
someone to become interested in history, and partly to stay
interested. When I was studying to be a historian, most of the
students in a historiography seminar (that is, one that focused
primarily on teaching professional
In a message dated 9/22/2005 1:05:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One of my costuming friends commented about the film Elizabeth that the
film's website actually said that the director _forbid_ the costumers to
consult historic sources for costume, because he
Here is another different take on the subject:
I think what periods of history that have been chosen by North Americans to
re-create have been heavily influenced by movies, popular fiction and
television. Take the SCA for example, one of the founding members is a very
popular Fantasy writer. Both
At 11:34 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote:
Greetings,
I have been tasked with creating an Excel spreadsheet in order to
collect data for a historical study. The tables will need to be
exportable to Access. I'm comfortable doing fairly complicated
spreadsheets, but want to know if anyone out there has
Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me!
I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not
so many 18th century?
Aside from the fact that I don't know of any 18th century groups near me...
I just plain like the clothing from the 16th century
Excel and Access work very well together. You can even work directly in
your spreadsheet from Access. It sounds like you will not be doing the
data manipulation once it is in Access? If not, it would be best to
work with the person who is to be sure the fields you establish are
what/how
I don't think there is a firm dividing line between pop culture, and,
well, the rest of our culture. The Great Myths consist of a vast soup
of old historical stories; fairy tales; religious myths; cultural
dreams/goals; and modern novels, films, and TV shows. It's not like
late-night TV
All this talk about like one century or another...
Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing
thing will be that defines it? Y'knowwhat quality will it be known for,
you
think? What garment?
I have my own answers but I wonder what others think.
Without a doubt ... platform sneakers. :D
Althea
On Sep 22, 2005, at 2:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All this talk about like one century or another...
Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing
thing will be that defines it? Y'knowwhat quality will it
In a message dated 9/22/2005 5:07:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't think there is a firm dividing line between pop culture, and,
well, the rest of our culture.
Indeed.
But especially today, pop culture is disposable. Real culture endures.
And pop
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing
thing will be that defines it? Y'knowwhat quality will it be known for, you
think? What garment?
Denim jeans would be my vote.
--
Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
Such virtue
Unisex clothing, and definitely blue jeans IMO.
Sheridan
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:07 PM
Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century
All this talk about like one century or another...
Now that the 20th century
On 9/22/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing
thing will be that defines it? Y'knowwhat quality will it be known for,
you
think? What garment?
My first guess would be some of the technological changes rather
Pants for women?
The whole designer/couture thing?
Kim
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century
All this talk about like one
Pants for women?
And hemlines above the ankle.
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Cynthia said,
Oh, yeah, I've had those, but it's not all fairies and magic dust,
bizarre speech patterns, and bosoms.
I've heard eough bizarre speech patterns at 18thC events, and there
are definitely bosoms! It seems like for both 18thC and Ren Faires,
many people want to show more bosom
T-shirts and jeans. After centuries of even peasant and workman's wear being
somewhat formal to our taste (think of barbers, printers, and butchers in
the late 1800s and early 1900s with white shirts, jackets, and ties), these
garments became nearly universal in the west, with all sorts of fancy
.
Indeed.
But especially today, pop culture is disposable. Real culture endures.
The works of Homer and Shakespeare (if they were even single authors,
which is another issue entirely) were pop culture in their day. So was
most of what literature students earnestly study, at the time
I don't think we'll ever see the whole 20th century defined as one
image. After all, we don't see the 19th century that way. We see it in
terms of the Empire look, the crinoline look, etc.
We've already settled on images for most of the 20th century, except for
the most recent decades. We
Isn't that what PEERS does? I'm not on the west coast, but I thought
they had balls of various periods, beyond the eras when California
was well-populated.
Yes, but not every reenactment event is a ball. There are other things
people like to do. The Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:36 -0500
From: otsisto
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Dressing Santa Claus
To: Historical Costume
Baba Yaga is female and was not Russia's version of St. Nick. :)
De
Which is why I said or some similar personality. :)
My understanding is that Baba
In a message dated 9/22/2005 7:06:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The works of Homer and Shakespeare (if they were even single authors,
which is another issue entirely) were pop culture in their day.
Yes yes yesbut so were a bunch of playwrights and poets,
Hi-- I've read it.
The gown was used to dress a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Eleonora was
very religious and some of her gowns were used for ecclesiastical stuff
after she died. It MIGHT have been from one of the L-I-W, or Eleonora
herself. It is unsure. There is a painting of the Ducal
I like so many different periods. I especially think the men look HOT in 18th
19th century clothes. What was that Hugh Jackman and Meg Ryan movie? YUM.
But for me, it's easier to sew the earlier period costumes.
Julie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just plain like the clothing from the
It is a very heavily researched historical novel about Cosimo and Eleonora.
Dame Catriona MacDuff (Monica Spence)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of WickedFrau
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 2:54 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re:
On Thursday 22 September 2005 1:07 pm, Abel, Cynthia wrote:
Costume designers for movies set in historic times may want to be as
accurate as possible but face a lot of caveats:
The book Hollywood and History by Edward Maeder
Yes, it's an excellent book. I got a used copy from a store once
On Thursday 22 September 2005 4:29 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 9/22/2005 1:05:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One of my costuming friends commented about the film Elizabeth that the
film's website actually said that the director _forbid_ the
All this talk about like one century or another...
Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing
thing will be that defines it? Y'knowwhat quality will it be
known for, you
think? What garment?
I have my own answers but I wonder what others think.
Hmmm, I
Julie wrote:
What was that Hugh Jackman and Meg Ryan movie? YUM.
Kate Leopold. I second the YUM.
-Helen/Aidan
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Isn't that what PEERS does? I'm not on the west coast, but I thought
they had balls of various periods, beyond the eras when California
was well-populated.
PEERS is a dance group with a costume addiction. grin PEERS doesnt
stick with history or California either. There have been Gilbert and
1) Comfort as the defining word, as opposed to display, ostentation,
propriety,
etc.
Yep, stilletos, 3 heels of any kind, miniskirts, pantihose, winkle pickers.
All very comfy in my books;)
If we are comparing high fashion to high fashion, no way is it more about
being comfortable or less
Drat, I think I did see this earlier. Is this the thing that isn't
published yet?
monica spence wrote:
It is a very heavily researched historical novel about Cosimo and Eleonora.
Dame Catriona MacDuff (Monica Spence)
What is the manuscript you speak of Monica? I missed that part.
My town didn't have Washington sleep in it--but he did
have breakfast there once, or so I was told during the
Bicentennial (of the revolution). It's even possible,
as the town was between actual troup concentrations in
larger towns on either side, but don't ask me which;
possibly Wethersfield was
Pants, especially pants on women. Possibly blue jeans.
--
Lauren M. Walker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Cin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All this talk about like one century or another...
Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing
thing will be that defines it?
So far as silhouette, yes, the short skirt, but the
square shoulder was really noticable in most 20th
century fashion.
Women's shoulders were shown as fairly square and
broad from the mid-1910's on, even through Dior's New
Look.
Men's were fairly squared up by 1900, and never really
slumped.
- Original Message -
From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century?
There we disagree, because I think this is an artificial distinction. It's
I'd still rather read Pride and Prejudice or The Pickwick Papers than
the latest Diana Gabaldon novel.
Which I think brings back the point that we are too close to the
twentieth century yet to look at it objectively. Pickwick and Oliver
Twist were serial novels, hardly considered
At 10:15 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote:
As a Catholic, of course I was bemused by the very idea of Elizabeth
wearing white makeup and deciding never to marry in order to give England a
new Virgin Mary -- surrounded by weeping serving maids, no less!
Read _The Cult of Elizabeth_ by Roy Strong (isbn
And was she really a worrior
And was she really a female warrior?
A female warrior? No, not really. Mary de Guise was a French Catholic
Queen-Regent, living and ruling a country (Scotland) that was becoming
heavily Protestant (at least in the lowlands). Her biggest enemy was the
fire
Bless you!
I'll look up the brcg and would love the info on the other group SWIT.
I can hardly wait to spread my historical research and costuming wings!
Elena/Gia
If there are 'Societies' in the USA (Seattle, Washington area) that I
could begin playing in I'd love to know about
Subject: TextileMuse, the searchable online catalogue of Arthur D. Jenkins
Library collections
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:46:09 -0400
From: Sumru Krody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TextileMuse, the searchable online catalogue of Arthur D. Jenkins
Library collections, is now accessible via the Textile
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