[h-cost] Era with Heaviest undergarmants - TV query
Hello Bay Area Costumers! I loved the costume bazaar last weekend and was delighted to pick up a great Dickens Faire outfit (and a membership to the group). Now, a question from a friend of mine is a scout/producer for a company that makes tv shows for Discovery, TLC, etc. (see below) Can anyone help? I don't want to bog down the list with responses if this is really basic, so feel free to email me off the list. Thanks! - Forwarded Message - From: Shera Jenne sh...@shera.tv To: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Advice Hey there Chris! Wish you were near. I have so many things to ask you! ha ha. Do you know anything about Victorian undergarments? Weird question, huh. I am writing up a proposal and I am trying to figure out the time period in which women wore the MOST undergarments... as in number of items and/or heaviest. I think I read somewhere that at their height women were wearing 19 pounds of undergarments under their dresses. But I can't find that definitively. I know you specialize in more middle ages stuff... (or medieval?) but since costumery is an area of interest I thought it might be something you'd know a little bit about. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Era with Heaviest undergarmants - TV query
I would say that the early Victorian period especially the late 1840's would be the heaviest era for undergarments. By that time the corset was re-emerging as a longer, more heavily boned object and ladies wore lots of underskirts/petticoats to achieve the bell skirted look which was in fashion. If I remember my readings correctly (at work and away from my books) a really fashionable woman might wear upwards of 15 skirts. When the crinoline was introduced in the 1850's it was hailed as a liberator becuase women could go without the weight and encumbrance of all the petticoats. Karen DezomaSeamstrix -- Original Message -- From: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Era with Heaviest undergarmants - TV query Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 08:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Hello Bay Area Costumers! I loved the costume bazaar last weekend and was delighted to pick up a great Dickens Faire#65533;outfit (and a membership to the group). Now, a question from a friend of mine is a scout/producer for a company that makes tv shows for Discovery, TLC, etc. (see below) Can#65533;anyone help? I don't want to bog down the list with responses if this is really basic, so feel free to email me off the list. Thanks! #65533; - Forwarded Message - From: Shera Jenne sh...@shera.tv To: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Advice Hey there Chris! Wish you were near. I have so many things to ask you! ha ha. Do you know anything about Victorian undergarments? Weird question, huh. I am writing up a proposal and I am trying to figure out the time period in which women wore the MOST undergarments... as in number of items and/or heaviest. I think I read somewhere that at their height women were wearing 19 pounds of undergarments under their dresses. But I can't find that definitively. I know you specialize in more middle ages stuff... (or medieval?) but since costumery is an area of interest I thought it might be something you'd know a little bit about. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 57-Year-Old Mom Looks 25 Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e60f32ebb48b110d5bst05duc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Era with Heaviest undergarmants - TV query
That is my thought also, 1840s or 50s before the hoop--lots and lots of starched petticoats, especially, with full corsets chemises. Ann in CT From: penhal...@juno.com penhal...@juno.com I would say that the early Victorian period especially the late 1840's would be the heaviest era for undergarments. By that time the corset was re-emerging as a longer, more heavily boned object and ladies wore lots of underskirts/petticoats to achieve the bell skirted look which was in fashion. If I remember my readings correctly (at work and away from my books) a really fashionable woman might wear upwards of 15 skirts. When the crinoline was introduced in the 1850's it was hailed as a liberator becuase women could go without the weight and encumbrance of all the petticoats. Karen DezomaSeamstrix -- Original Message -- From: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com question from a friend of mine is a scout/producer for a company that makes tv shows for Discovery, TLC, etc. (see below) Can�anyone help? - Forwarded Message - From: Shera Jenne sh...@shera.tv To: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Advice Do you know anything about Victorian undergarments? Weird question, huh. I am writing up a proposal and I am trying to figure out the time period in which women wore the MOST undergarments... as in number of items and/or heaviest. I think I read somewhere that at their height women were wearing 19 pounds of undergarments under their dresses. But I can't find that definitively. I know you specialize in more middle ages stuff... (or medieval?) but since costumery is an area of interest I thought it might be something you'd know a little bit about. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Heavy underwear
My first thought was early 1850's, just before the hoop, as others have said. But I wonder if, pound for pound, the 1770's and thereabout might win. Stays that were solidly boned and several layers thick were heavier than corsets, linen shifts were heavier than chemises, petticoats were worn under and over the panniers and some of these were quilted for warmth, and there was the separate pocket, often worn in pairs. It might be a toss-up. Though I'm still betting on mid-Victorian. Martha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Era with Heaviest undergarmants - TV query
I'd ditto the 1840 very early 50s just before the hoop comes in. For a particularly unique example, Queen Victoria, when she was very young, commented on the excess weight of her parlementary robes. That said, I'm also going to put in a bid for late Elizabethan court style in drum farthingales as the 2nd runner-up. I know some of you are gonna poo-poo this, but with a velvet or satin kirtle skirts, all of which is fully lined sometimes, interfaced, guarded, embroidered in metal beaded to a fair-thee-well. Even the precious metal embroidery is heavy. It's how embroiderers were paid, in many cases, by weight of the metal applied. Then. once those beaded outer skirts jewels things get tossed on the drum, we're talking heavy. I supposed much of it matters as to where you draw the definitional line of undergarments. Kirtles, even those with portions meant to be seen are under open gowns, loose gowns are, by some lights, underwear. Whatever the answer, it's a pretty silly question. You can pretty much find exceptionalism anywhere or anywhen you look for it. Does mean that the rank file wore it. And while it's an amusing question for costumers, the answer really isnt much use either. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 8:14 AM, penhal...@juno.com penhal...@juno.com wrote: I would say that the early Victorian period especially the late 1840's would be the heaviest era for undergarments. By that time the corset was re-emerging as a longer, more heavily boned object and ladies wore lots of underskirts/petticoats to achieve the bell skirted look which was in fashion. If I remember my readings correctly (at work and away from my books) a really fashionable woman might wear upwards of 15 skirts. When the crinoline was introduced in the 1850's it was hailed as a liberator becuase women could go without the weight and encumbrance of all the petticoats. Karen DezomaSeamstrix -- Original Message -- From: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Era with Heaviest undergarmants - TV query Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 08:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Hello Bay Area Costumers! I loved the costume bazaar last weekend and was delighted to pick up a great Dickens Faire#65533;outfit (and a membership to the group). Now, a question from a friend of mine is a scout/producer for a company that makes tv shows for Discovery, TLC, etc. (see below) Can#65533;anyone help? I don't want to bog down the list with responses if this is really basic, so feel free to email me off the list. Thanks! #65533; - Forwarded Message - From: Shera Jenne sh...@shera.tv To: Chris Harrison ch...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Advice Hey there Chris! Wish you were near. I have so many things to ask you! ha ha. Do you know anything about Victorian undergarments? Weird question, huh. I am writing up a proposal and I am trying to figure out the time period in which women wore the MOST undergarments... as in number of items and/or heaviest. I think I read somewhere that at their height women were wearing 19 pounds of undergarments under their dresses. But I can't find that definitively. I know you specialize in more middle ages stuff... (or medieval?) but since costumery is an area of interest I thought it might be something you'd know a little bit about. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 57-Year-Old Mom Looks 25 Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e60f32ebb48b110d5bst05duc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Heavy underwear
How much did bustles weigh? Kate Pinner -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Martha Kelly Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 2:38 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Heavy underwear My first thought was early 1850's, just before the hoop, as others have said. But I wonder if, pound for pound, the 1770's and thereabout might win. Stays that were solidly boned and several layers thick were heavier than corsets, linen shifts were heavier than chemises, petticoats were worn under and over the panniers and some of these were quilted for warmth, and there was the separate pocket, often worn in pairs. It might be a toss-up. Though I'm still betting on mid-Victorian. Martha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Heavy underwear
Bustles may look ungainly but they are effectively half hoop skirts and aren't very heavy at all. Karen DezomaSeamstrix -- Original Message -- From: Kathryn Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Heavy underwear Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 19:56:35 + How much did bustles weigh? Kate Pinner -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Martha Kelly Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 2:38 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Heavy underwear My first thought was early 1850's, just before the hoop, as others have said. But I wonder if, pound for pound, the 1770's and thereabout might win. Stays that were solidly boned and several layers thick were heavier than corsets, linen shifts were heavier than chemises, petticoats were worn under and over the panniers and some of these were quilted for warmth, and there was the separate pocket, often worn in pairs. It might be a toss-up. Though I'm still betting on mid-Victorian. Martha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 57-Year-Old Mom Looks 25 Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e6139c9c98fd12168cst06duc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] weight of batting [was:Re: Heavy underwear]
The heaviest single article in all my undergarments is a quilted petticoat, BUT: it's cotton on the outside, cotton batting on the inside. In the period (1750 to, oh, say 1810), this petticoat would more likely have had wool batting, and either wool broadcloth or silk on the outsides. I've never had the pleasure of handling wool batting, and in my imagination it's lighter than cotton batting. Can anyone confirm that? Claudine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] weight of batting [was:Re: Heavy underwear]
At 02:31 PM 9/2/2011, you wrote: The heaviest single article in all my undergarments is a quilted petticoat, BUT: it's cotton on the outside, cotton batting on the inside. In the period (1750 to, oh, say 1810), this petticoat would more likely have had wool batting, and either wool broadcloth or silk on the outsides. I've never had the pleasure of handling wool batting, and in my imagination it's lighter than cotton batting. Can anyone confirm that? Claudine Wool batting is less dense than cotton batting of the same thickness. I would expect a quilted petticoat with wool batting to be lighter than one with cotton batting. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] weight of batting [was:Re: Heavy underwear]
I have a queen-sized wool comforter (wool batting between two layers of egyptian cotton). It weighs less than the much thinner quilted all-cotton bedspread. YMMV, -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] weight of batting [was:Re: Heavy underwear]
My mother has the king-size, wool stuffed, wool scrap pieced, flannel backed comforter that my great-grandmother made. The wool stuffing is hand carded, and laid in swirls. (I noticed when I did some repairs on it a couple years back.) It's impressively heavy; you might suffocate under it, but you wont be cold. The Illinois farmhouse didnt have central heating. She also made several cotton piecework quilts, one for each grand great-grand child. They are much much lighter in weight than the wool one. The cotton stuffing is hand-carded, too. My husband's great-grandmother made a down stuffed best quilt that I have, as well. Very high loft extremely lightweight. I recall that sleeve stuffings could be down (in various eras), but dont recall any down petticoats in any inventories or museums. I'm a quilter, too, and that Warm Natural stuff sandwiched in cotton is a whole lot lighter than the all-wool one of the same size. My quilted petticoat is nuthin' by comparison. It's very light, and not much more batting in it than a baby quilt or lap quilt might have. It's those 1840s-50s corded ruffled petticoats that are beasts to wear, IMHO. It all depends on the weight and density of the rope being used. I'm not an expert I never made a corded petti. Maybe someone else can provide some insight on these. Enjoy the 3-day weekend, ladies gents! --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Helen Pinto helen.pi...@comcast.net wrote: I have a queen-sized wool comforter (wool batting between two layers of egyptian cotton). It weighs less than the much thinner quilted all-cotton bedspread. YMMV, -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
