[h-cost] Mummers Museum and Mardi Gras Trip
Kudos to Sandy Pierre for the great recommendation to go to the Mummers Museum in Philadelphia. We did the photo shoot Saturday morning. Joe I took 700 photos in 2 hrs. We photographed all the costumes on exhibit. Each costume may have up to 10-15 photos to show all the details from front, back, and side angles. In the next couple of days, I will put online a few of the photos from this trip. I wish I could start right now into getting this project online BUT. This week, I have to switch my work to costume photos from the Mobile, Alabama Mardi Gras Museum...400 photos. I want to get them on my website before I leave for Mardi Gras on March 1 and (returning March 15.) If I have extra time, (no way), I want to put online my photos from MG Day 2010 on St. Charles St., New Orleans. I am praying that the MG Museum in Biloxi, Mississippi is finally open so that I can fit in a photo shoot of their costumes. The museum was on the beach front where Hurricane Katrina hit. I did a video and photos in 1999 of their costumes but am not 100% happy with the results. I have improved my techniques. I am staying an extra week on the Gulf Coast, so I might re-shoot the costume photos for the NO MG Museum. When I return from MG, I plan to get the last of my 2010 Costume-Con photos and video online before the 2011 event. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites http://www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18thC stockings, was: Fashioning Fashion
18thC stockings have been discussed in detail on a few different lists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FandIWomen/ What you saw are probably frame knit as opposed to hand knit. Here is a link to a pair, and I'm sure the embroidery is different: http://www.visitorreview.com/fashionphotographycompetition/22Plus/ RememberingJeremyFarrell There are a few differences between how they were made and making them yourself. Through most of the 18thC, stockings were knit to shape on the knitting frame. That means that they had a finished edge. When making them from a cut fabric, you'll need to make sure you have a sufficient seam allowance or seam finish. The really tricky place for this is at the top of the gore which would be inserted into the ankle portion. See the Kannick's pattern illustration: http://www.kannikskorner.com/pataccess.htm Stockings, pockets and mitts, a good base for making your repro stockings from knit yardgoods. 18thC knits were dense, and the frame knit fabric does not have a lot of stretch. Modern jersey knits are very stretchy, so while you could use a silk jersey, it will be different. It depends on how picky you are about that, also experiments would help to see how well it can support the embroidery. So far all stockings I've seen (and I've seen a lot of them!) have the clocking on BOTH SIDES of the leg. As far as the embellishment, since you said it was gold then I'm assuming metallic threads. With metallic thread, some stockings have the main motif stitched onto vellum, then that piece is applied onto the stocking with extra portions embroidered right on the stocking. Regular old silk thread embroidery is also found. Plating is specific to frame-knit stockings and seems to have fallen out of fashion about the middle of the 18th century. This was done as the stocking was knit, by introducing a contrast color of filaments on top of the main thread. It can be mimicked by duplicate stitch embroidery, but that embroidery thread would have to be very fine. Turnshapes were a way of manipulating the frame knitting (in progress) to form purl stitches. I think these fell out of favor as frame knitting became more of a production craft, with the finished plain stocking handed off to an embroiderer (cheaper tools) for embellishment. One more technique is called chevening, supposedly invented in 1783. This involves taking a horizontal stitch across the knit stitch ad can be seen in the 3rd image (monochrome clocking) of the Remembering Jeremy Farrell set. With single stitches in the same thread as the stocking, it will resemble purl stitches. Stitches were also taken across 3, 5 or 7 stitches to form the more detailed design such as the one in that image. Chevening was also done in colors for some very complex designs, especially going into the early 19th century. A lot of this will require decisions and compromise as you make your stockings. I learned to knit on an antique frame but never got close to an exact repro. It all depends on your end use and authenticity standards. You can get away with more short-cuts on something you are wearing vs. a stocking made to go on display. -Carol On Jan 29, 2011, at 3:26 AM, Marjorie Wilser wrote: One surprise was a delicious bright red pair of ladies' hose from the 18th century. They were knit in silk with a fine denier, looking much like modern t-shirt knit, and heavily embroidered (clocked) in gold. The surprise was the construction. The fine knit fabric was literally sewn down the back. The heel seam was a right angle and continued underneath the heel, ending at the back of the instep. Not much relation to the way in which I knit my own socks, and I have tried some historic patterns. I'll be able to describe more when I upload my potos. It appears to me that any ambitious sewing person could fashion these stockings, if she/he wanted to embroider badly enough to have some luscious clocked stockings. . . http://www.lacma.org/art/ExhibFashioningFashion.aspx == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18thC stockings, was: Fashioning Fashion
Yes, Carol, Many thanks for the detail in your reply. I did assume they were frame knit. Funny thing is I'm a member of 2 of the 3 lists, but don't get regular emails because they overwhelmed my inbox :) If the proposed (and not yet by me!) stockings were constructed, I would try using Fray Check to see it it would hold the edges. This might make them the pits to wear, as it makes the edge crispy :/ Perhaps over another thin pair of hose they would be tolerable. My theories are just that, as despite my interest I've had no chance to learn on an antique frame. The gold stitching appeared to be metallic, and stitched into the knit rather than applied. It was not simply gold silk, though that would look very nice. I love that your first photo clearly shows the pre-construction shapes. I'll try to get mine up and visible this afternoon. The entire exhibit was wonderful, and despite all the breath-holding to shoot the costumes, I was glad I did. Hopefully the images came out unblurred. They didn't allow tripods! == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Jan 30, 2011, at 6:24 AM, Carol Kocian wrote: 18thC stockings have been discussed in detail on a few different lists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FandIWomen/ What you saw are probably frame knit as opposed to hand knit. Here is a link to a pair, and I'm sure the embroidery is different: http://www.visitorreview.com/fashionphotographycompetition/22Plus/RememberingJeremyFarrell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] historical socks
I am reminded of an advertising pamphlet that I ran across at the LOC American Memory website: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/eaa/ephemera/A01/A0173/A0173-01-72dpi.html from the late 19thC and which describes the evolution of the cut of the sock, particularly the heel. I'm not saying it's a great scholarly source or anything, but on the other hand, a company who's made socks stockings for a while would know a decent amount. If only they included dates! And were less racist! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -11th-12thCentury
I've never had any problems with that - almost all my dresses have four gores, I find it helps them to hang better, if you only use side gores it can look a bit flat and triangular - but admittedly I've never tried three. Jean On 29/01/2011 07:30, Wicked Frau wrote: Just a note, Dame Angele taught me that putting a gore in the front can cause problems. It can catch between your legs when walking. In the end all you need is fullness, so perhaps consider cutting only three gores and putting them on the sides and back. Sg On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.comwrote: Oops...meant to say 'indecisive'! -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 9:11 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -11th-12thCentury Thank you so much! That really helps. Just having someone else's thoughts helps when I'm feeling so decisive, but the Greenland gowns thought is right on track...and just what I need. Nothing like trying to sew garb for an event with a deadline to chase away all thoughts of all the many things that I've seen and read! laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern - 11th-12thCentury Hi Laurie, I haven't made this pattern, and unfortunately it's not in my collection to refer to. Based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of clothing from that time, however, I think your first assumption is correct: the long gores go into the side seams, the short gores into CF and CB. I seem to recall some of the Greenland gowns where made that way. Claudine - Original Message From: Laurie Taylorcostume...@mazarineblue.com To: Historical Costumeh-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 7:43:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern - 11th-12th Century I've been looking at this pattern some more, and I still can't decide what the instructions mean. There are 4 body panels - two fronts, two backs. It has side seams and seams up center front and center back. There are 2 sets of gores. One longer - to well above the waist, or about 4 inches below the armscye, and one shorter, to about waist level. I'm viewing them as from the hem up as the notches seem to work that way. The instructions and the notches seem rather vague. I'm thinking that probably the pairs of short gores go front/back and the long gores go to the side seams - or vice versa - long gores front/back and short gores to the side seams. There may be something that I'm missing, but I can't figure it out. If anyone has used this pattern, I'd love to talk to you! Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Historical Wedding Dresses, Iowa
There is an exhibit on historical wedding dresses at the Textiles and Clothing Museum on campus at Iowa State University. It is a small exhibit, but very nicely done. The stories of the dress in context are included with a description of the dress details. They also have a group page on Facebook for any of you so inclined. Mary Alice Gallery, 1015 Morrill Hall, Iowa State University campus Weddings in the Heartland: Apparel, Traditions, Memories Denise B Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical socks
Well, racism aside (to the extent that it can be set aside by a modern reader), that's quite an engaging pamphlet. I love the house- that-Jack-built poem. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Jan 30, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Elena House wrote: I am reminded of an advertising pamphlet that I ran across at the LOC American Memory website: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/eaa/ephemera/A01/A0173/ A0173-01-72dpi.html from the late 19thC and which describes the evolution of the cut of the sock, particularly the heel. I'm not saying it's a great scholarly source or anything, but on the other hand, a company who's made socks stockings for a while would know a decent amount. If only they included dates! And were less racist! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical socks
Elena, Great resource, nevertheless. Thanks for posting it! I've now wasted a ton of time perusing manufacturer booklets :) Some of those will be very helpful for my other dirty little habit, historic printing. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Jan 30, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Elena House wrote: I am reminded of an advertising pamphlet that I ran across at the LOC American Memory website: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/eaa/ephemera/A01/A0173/A0173-01-72dpi.html from the late 19thC and which describes the evolution of the cut of the sock, particularly the heel. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -11th-12thCentury
I've been putting CF and CB gores in my gowns for years as well, and I have never had problems with them catching between my legs. Indeed, if the gown doesn't have a CF gore, that's when it causes problems. Remember that medieval shoes were different from modern shoes, so medieval people walked differently than we moderns do. They did not have all the nifty cushioning, gel insoles, or grippy soles, so their method of walking was more like ours still is when we're barefoot. I find that I don't get tangled in my gown if I walk medievally, whereas it can be a real issue if I am walking modernly. Jen/Margaret On Sun, 30 Jan 2011, Anne wrote: I've never had any problems with that - almost all my dresses have four gores, I find it helps them to hang better, if you only use side gores it can look a bit flat and triangular - but admittedly I've never tried three. Jean On 29/01/2011 07:30, Wicked Frau wrote: Just a note, Dame Angele taught me that putting a gore in the front can cause problems. It can catch between your legs when walking. In the end all you need is fullness, so perhaps consider cutting only three gores and putting them on the sides and back. Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -11th-12thCentury
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com wrote: Just a note, Dame Angele taught me that putting a gore in the front can cause problems. It can catch between your legs when walking. In the end all you need is fullness, so perhaps consider cutting only three gores and putting them on the sides and back. Sg I know gores front and back are done very frequently, but I too prefer only sides, for this very reason. And I think the tunics hang better this way, at least in linen and wool. Cotton is stiffer, it might not work as well. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -11th-12thCentury
I don't know if it's related at all — when Robin Netherton demonstrated making a gothic fitted gown, she might or might not use front and back gores depending on the figure of the wearer. If I recall correctly, wide hips worked well with the flare at the sides, and for a straight figure, center gores were needed to get the right shape. It may be a similar effect here, where the cut of the gown is different for different people. -Carol On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:13 AM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com wrote: Just a note, Dame Angele taught me that putting a gore in the front can cause problems. It can catch between your legs when walking. In the end all you need is fullness, so perhaps consider cutting only three gores and putting them on the sides and back. Sg I know gores front and back are done very frequently, but I too prefer only sides, for this very reason. And I think the tunics hang better this way, at least in linen and wool. Cotton is stiffer, it might not work as well. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
