Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
This is why I feel regular production meetings are so important. At the first meeting, all the designers and the director get together and discuss the direction of the show re: design, style, etc. As soon as the show is cast, meet again and make any changes (if the leads won't look good in the original ideas, change them ASAP) Then meet every week until tech week. It keeps the director and producer from getting any surprises and you can let folks know if their expectations aren't going to be met because of budget/time/lack of help, etc. As to professional standards, if the director/producer changes my ideas so radically that I would be embarrassed to have my name on them, I do the job as asked (I'm assuming you're getting paid), but ask that I not be listed in the program as the designer, after all, if your designs have been altered, they aren't a good reflection of your abilities. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AVCHASE Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:46 PM To: h-costume posts Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very upsetting to me. The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda was different? So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, didn't listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact but were more conventional. Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's professional standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know if they are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and practitioners. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
I had a difficult situation with a play I designed last summer. The director didn't have much of a clue what he wanted before the rehearsal process started but he did have one conceptual concept he wanted visualized by the costumes and I agreed it would be a good one, so I designed the show around that. The play only had 2 actors, one male, one female (The Last Five Years) and when rehearsals started, they, especially the woman, started suggesting costume ideas. At that point, the director more or less submitted to their-mainly her--ideas and my ideas kind of flew out the window. It was a shopped show and one weekend the woman even went to a store and bought some things she liked, to bring back and show me. I was getting rather frustrated and disappointed by then but tried to go with the flow and I actually did appreciate their input, since they knew more about their characters than I did through rehearsing their parts.I guess I've been in the business enough by now to know do this, although it would have been impossible if the costumes had been built. So I sympathize with you and your situation. Fortunately it hasn't happened very often that the actors want to design their own costumes. On one of the other plays I also designed last summer one actress asked for a different color fabric after I had already purchased it, but we had a big enough budget that I could do so. Several years ago I was draping a show that had cast an experienced Broadway actress who was of a certain age and the designer had to design 3 different possible outfits for her to approve before his designs were finalized, so I know this happens a lot in our industry. Sometimes the actors are right and have good ideas. Sometimes they are not and you have to do what it takes to please them, as I've found that directors usually bow to the actors, not the designer. Sylvia On Apr 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: This is why I feel regular production meetings are so important. At the first meeting, all the designers and the director get together and discuss the direction of the show re: design, style, etc. As soon as the show is cast, meet again and make any changes (if the leads won't look good in the original ideas, change them ASAP) Then meet every week until tech week. It keeps the director and producer from getting any surprises and you can let folks know if their expectations aren't going to be met because of budget/time/lack of help, etc. As to professional standards, if the director/producer changes my ideas so radically that I would be embarrassed to have my name on them, I do the job as asked (I'm assuming you're getting paid), but ask that I not be listed in the program as the designer, after all, if your designs have been altered, they aren't a good reflection of your abilities. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AVCHASE Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:46 PM To: h-costume posts Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very upsetting to me. The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda was different? So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, didn't listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact but were more conventional. Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's professional standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know if they are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and practitioners. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
In a message dated 4/14/2008 3:01:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: as I've found that directors usually bow to the actors, not the designer. And isn't it annoying. I want to just quit and let the actor do the whole showsee how she likes that. I'm tired of wardrobe being on the bottom rung of the ladder. [I hear it's not so much so in Europe, especially Britain] When is she gonna complain about the props or change the color of the wallpaper on the set? I don't mind actor's inputbut I want the final decision to be mine if my name is on it. They don't hear me telling them how to read their lines, do they? This is why I ended up cutting and draping more than designing. The actual designer really appreciates what you do for them. **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
This has been a great thread, so nice to know one is not alone in situations like this. I think one of the problems, especially in community theater, is that to often the costume designer is looked upon as sewing labor, not design talent. I started back doing a little theater a couple of years ago and found every production to be different. Communication is the key and I learned a lot every time, which meant the second time working with a particular director went a lot smoother :). I also learned not to take it to personally if I heard later through the grapevine that there was something specific they may have wanted that didn't get done, or done the way they might have preferred. Budget, and time, was often the critical crunch in these situations. I know I've been really lucky with most of the casts I've worked with too so I had fun. I'd probably do more except my hands just can't hold up anymore to the last minute push there always is to get everything done. Catherine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
Been there and done that. A worse scean is when the costumes get voted on by the Mother's Aux. for the production...and the Director accepts their critique as the standard. Or the whole cast gets to decide which costumes make the cut. Between the movies and the major two Costume companies, the visual expectation is very limited for the Popular theater of a general public. The idea of style interpretation sometimes extends to matching colors, prints, assessories and such to the exact picture on the Pattern cover or to a particular garment from the film. Very frustrating. Making Cartoon costumes is not fun for one who may have a better view of the historical aspects of how the style (generic) clothes and compliments the character being costumed. It took me several years to learn to pick my battles and to try to maintain an integrity of Design for a particular production. In working with some cast members, I fought for their trust by reminding them that my name Too would be on the program; if they didn't look good or the character was inappropriatly clothed, I would get the criticism first. We spend a fair bit of time on this List with personal critiques of the movies and other productions re Costume; it is often pointed out that directors and actors live in a kind of fantasy world and that Design integrity is least in their expectation. For myself, in agreeing to do a production, I stressed Interpretation as a major starting point for the Design development. With some duds and a larger number of successes, I managed to get my own share of plaudits that gave me courage to move forward for the next time. (And there were many times when in the company of tech staff it was said that I saved the show.) Guess one might remind the Director that theye can always Rent from a 'professional' theater supply house , Cost and Style be @#$^%. Funny, when paying the Rental company how few complaints are given re Desigh and Fit! KSM - Original Message - From: AVCHASE [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume posts h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very upsetting to me. The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda was different? So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, didn't listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact but were more conventional. Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's professional standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know if they are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and practitioners. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
opening, worked out a costume sequence for the women characters that would accommodate the time constraints for the necessary changes, and got costumes on everyone by opening night that were comfortable, compatible with the show's vision and with the style of the set, and period-suggestive if not absolutely period on all counts. (Several days before we opened, while we were in the final frenzy of getting costumes done, the designer called the costumes mistress and left a message that she had quit the show!) Audiences raved about the show--acting, set, costumes, atmosphere, interpretation, all of it. Several weeks after the show closed, the costumer-errant called the costumes mistress to tell us all how unprofessional we had been and say that she had found us impossible to work with. She also said she'd leave the loaned books on her porch for the costumes mistress to pick up. This summer I'm directing The Tempest, and luckily my usual costumer (also referred to as costumes mistress in above scenario) is feeling well recovered and will be working with me as usual. So I'd say Yes, we do need some statement about the role of the costumes designer and the interaction between designer and director-- taking all participants into account: designer, actors, and director! (possibly with an appended checklist called signs that your costumer/ actor/director may be insane!) Oh, thanks for your patience in reading this--I hadn't put it together before, and it's been a good catharsis for me! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Apr 12, 2008, at 8:50 AM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: Been there and done that. A worse scean is when the costumes get voted on by the Mother's Aux. for the production...and the Director accepts their critique as the standard. Or the whole cast gets to decide which costumes make the cut. Between the movies and the major two Costume companies, the visual expectation is very limited for the Popular theater of a general public. The idea of style interpretation sometimes extends to matching colors, prints, assessories and such to the exact picture on the Pattern cover or to a particular garment from the film. Very frustrating. Making Cartoon costumes is not fun for one who may have a better view of the historical aspects of how the style (generic) clothes and compliments the character being costumed. It took me several years to learn to pick my battles and to try to maintain an integrity of Design for a particular production. In working with some cast members, I fought for their trust by reminding them that my name Too would be on the program; if they didn't look good or the character was inappropriatly clothed, I would get the criticism first. We spend a fair bit of time on this List with personal critiques of the movies and other productions re Costume; it is often pointed out that directors and actors live in a kind of fantasy world and that Design integrity is least in their expectation. For myself, in agreeing to do a production, I stressed Interpretation as a major starting point for the Design development. With some duds and a larger number of successes, I managed to get my own share of plaudits that gave me courage to move forward for the next time. (And there were many times when in the company of tech staff it was said that I saved the show.) Guess one might remind the Director that theye can always Rent from a 'professional' theater supply house , Cost and Style be @#$^%. Funny, when paying the Rental company how few complaints are given re Desigh and Fit! KSM - Original Message - From: AVCHASE [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume posts h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very upsetting to me. The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda was different? So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, didn't listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
These experiences suggest that both designers and directors would be happier in the end if, whatever the expectations are, they were *written down* and agreed on ahead of time. A designer might not be completely happy, but both designer and director might be far less *stressed* to know ahead of time that, for instance, the leading lady gets to dictate her own colors and will provide her own undergarments. (The designer is of course free to think Victorian corset for Shakespeare? Ha! in the privacy of his or her own mind) I'm sure the collective mind can cheerfully provide a list of common things that go wrong if anyone wants to write up guidelines for what might be useful in such an agreement ;) (That is, if there isn't already such a thing available...) Flaky employees who don't meet deadlines, however are endemic in all ines of work and are really another matter. That's a matter of someone not meeting the terms of something they already HAVE agreed to. Community theater directors may just be more out of luck on this than most people because they so often don't have anyone else they can really turn to if the costumer flakes out. OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
Chris Laning wrote: These experiences suggest that both designers and directors would be happier in the end if, whatever the expectations are, they were *written down* and agreed on ahead of time. I absolutely agree. My husband and a group of friends build sets for amateur theatre, so I've been reading this thread from the other side, as it were. Having had less and less time to build bigger and bigger sets in recent years, the latest show was an absolute monster - two structures, 20 ft high, 20ft wide and 8ft deep(just to have space for enough buttressing), which the director originally wanted to move in sight during scenes! They built it, securely enough that the theatre's resident stage manager allowed them to use it and move it, which was in question until the technical rehearsal, but only with the curtains closed and all cast off stage - but they have now written down conditions making clear that they can only do so much if just presented with plans at 6 weeks notice, and how much better it could be if they were involved in discussions about design and movement requirements at an early stage. Clearly understood expectations are always where it's at! Jean ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very upsetting to me. The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda was different? So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, didn't listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact but were more conventional. Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's professional standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know if they are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and practitioners. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS
Hi All, I too do productions for a, very dear to me, director - I've been doing this for the last 5 years - one to two shows a year, usually one major one and a smaller production. I've spent alot of time on the net researching each show and period but have never come upon a professional standards list or site. I usually have complete control over the design with the directors in put when she feels I am not in tune with her vision - however we are amazingly in tune in that aspect. The only show I have done with another director was extremely stressfull and disorganized. There were a small handfull of very self-important actors whom I couldn't please no matter what I did. Then on opening night the co-director (didn't show up till Tech WeeK) completely changed the opening scene wardrobe substituting costumes that were scheduled for the end of the the show - this without telling me. Needless to say this threw off the continuity of the wardrobe changes. What do you do in a situation like this? Professional Standards might have given me a direction. I know I won't work with this group again. Anniecat16 Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:46:16 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very upsetting to me. The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda was different? So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overb! earing, didn't listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact but were more conventional. Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's professional standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know if they are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and practitioners. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailma! n/listinfo/h-costume _ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
