Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
I made a jacket very similar to the one shown. It's wool, lined with drill (heavy twill-weave cotton -- you could use canvas). I wear no stays under it and it looks just like the illustration shown. If you look closely, you can see the rounded bottom of the bosom under the jacket. You don't get that look with stays. Years ago, when I asked Janet Arnold about 17th century corsetry for the middle class, she replied that we just don't know because there are no extant middle class 17th century stays. Kathleen Norvell? -Original Message- From: Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Sun, Aug 9, 2009 10:38 am Subject: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice Hi, I am going to do an early 17th century woman's middle class dress, location: Bohemia (today's Czech Republic, east of Germany if someone doesn't know), time: 1618-1648. I want it to look like this: http://link.library.utoronto.ca/hollar/digobject.cfm?Idno=Hollar_k_1716query=Hollar_k_1716size=largetype=browse I have some questions regarding the bodice and stays. First of all, I assume I should use stays (I prefer stays to boned bodices). Then, if I use stays, shall I do some light boning to the bodice as well? It'll be light wool lined with linen. I don't really know how shall the stays look like. I have only found this: http://www.manchestergalleries.org/the-collections/search-the-collection/image.php?EMUSESSID=bf812423145fbba6ba4d441b7ec2ec13imageirn=400682r=51445954 from this era, but I'm not sure about the style...I thought I should do some traditional type of stays with lacing at the back...do you have any pictures of other surviving garments (corsets) from the 1st half of 17th century? The bodice should be pointed, cut at the waist, probably with tabs, and with something like princess seams. I think I should keep to this pattern: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hkoslov/1354051356/in/set-72157601949667448/ For the stays and bodice, but again, it's a bit too late. What do you think? Thanks, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
Zuzana, If you want a pattern for the shorter-waisted stays of the first half of the 17th century, try http://www.12eyes.co.uk/stays/stays.htm . Having a minimal figure, I find a boned bodice adequate for middle-class attire. If you want to wear separate stays, I think you would still need light boning in the bodice. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
Hi, I am going to do an early 17th century woman's middle class dress, location: Bohemia (today's Czech Republic, east of Germany if someone doesn't know), time: 1618-1648. I want it to look like this: http://link.library.utoronto.ca/hollar/digobject.cfm?Idno=Hollar_k_1716query=Hollar_k_1716size=largetype=browse I have some questions regarding the bodice and stays. First of all, I assume I should use stays (I prefer stays to boned bodices). Then, if I use stays, shall I do some light boning to the bodice as well? It'll be light wool lined with linen. I don't really know how shall the stays look like. I have only found this: http://www.manchestergalleries.org/the-collections/search-the-collection/image.php?EMUSESSID=bf812423145fbba6ba4d441b7ec2ec13imageirn=400682r=51445954 from this era, but I'm not sure about the style...I thought I should do some traditional type of stays with lacing at the back...do you have any pictures of other surviving garments (corsets) from the 1st half of 17th century? The bodice should be pointed, cut at the waist, probably with tabs, and with something like princess seams. I think I should keep to this pattern: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hkoslov/1354051356/in/set-72157601949667448/ For the stays and bodice, but again, it's a bit too late. What do you think? Thanks, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
We are used to certain rules in dress, but sometimes ethnic (anything not English) will break those rules. The image you showed looks like a jacket. There were stays with detachable sleeves that are meant to be an outer garment, up to the middle of the 18thC. For 17thC, there are boned jackets that appear to not need stays underneath. For stays and a wool jacket, it depends on the structure and fit of the jacket — does it need a few bones to be smooth? You may decide to do this after it's made. The pattern draft someone put on Flickr is lifted from _Corsets Crinolines_ by Norah Waugh. I made one of those. The problem I had was, with the armscyes so low, the lacing gapped at the bustline due to the pressure of the armscyes. I made mine with cording, and with stiffer boning (or boning down the center front, at least) perhaps that would not happen. -Carol On Aug 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Hi, I am going to do an early 17th century woman's middle class dress, location: Bohemia (today's Czech Republic, east of Germany if someone doesn't know), time: 1618-1648. I want it to look like this: http://link.library.utoronto.ca/hollar/digobject.cfm? Idno=Hollar_k_1716query=Hollar_k_1716size=largetype=browse I have some questions regarding the bodice and stays. First of all, I assume I should use stays (I prefer stays to boned bodices). Then, if I use stays, shall I do some light boning to the bodice as well? It'll be light wool lined with linen. I don't really know how shall the stays look like. I have only found this: http://www.manchestergalleries.org/the-collections/ search-the-collection/image.php? EMUSESSID=bf812423145fbba6ba4d441b7ec2ec13imageirn=400682r=51445954 from this era, but I'm not sure about the style...I thought I should do some traditional type of stays with lacing at the back...do you have any pictures of other surviving garments (corsets) from the 1st half of 17th century? The bodice should be pointed, cut at the waist, probably with tabs, and with something like princess seams. I think I should keep to this pattern: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hkoslov/1354051356/in/ set-72157601949667448/ For the stays and bodice, but again, it's a bit too late. What do you think? Thanks, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
Hi, I am going to do an early 17th century woman's middle class dress, location: Bohemia (today's Czech Republic, east of Germany if someone doesn't know), time: 1618-1648. I want it to look like this: http://link.library.utoronto.ca/hollar/digobject.cfm?Idno=Hollar_k_1716query=Hollar_k_1716size=largetype=browse Hollar shows slight curvature along the center front, and the woman's shoulders don't appear to be shoved backward like they were in the 1660s but seem to be in the normal place. So both examples of stays that you gave links to seem to be later, as you guessed. I'm thinking stays with no shoulder straps, and none of the horizontal boning I'd expect those stays to have. Also I think your first example is longer than you need and your second too short. So if it was me, not being sure what the real ones would look like, I'd find a pattern for stays that approximate the shape of the woman's bodice, and go from there. -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- “The future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed.” -William Gibson -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
I'd find a pattern for stays that approximate the shape of the woman's bodice, and go from there. ** It is common for bodices to have boned linings or for bodices to be mounted onto boned linings that are not cut exactly the same, but of course similarly cut. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
