Kimiko, Thank you for the information and the picture of the effigy. My
personna in the sca is around the 1530's in England as nobility, but my
general interest is in the period of the gable headresses. There isn't very
much primary documentation that I've been aable to find on this period.
Thank you ever so much for the pictures of the effergy. They are beautiful. I
am also takking the word of Dr. Davies, but i'm curious as to how common this
was, for what time period and weather it waas just gentlewomen or seen in poor,
nobile etc. also what types of material were used.
I don't have the original post, but I thought the
short skirt over long skirt thing seemed Spanish. So
here's something I found that might be useful. It's
from Weidnitz Trachtenbuch about 1530 or 1540.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2767477510025622007ZaBAUb
MaggiRos
--- Lynn Roth
Though I vaguely remember seeing some German prints and French manuscript
illuminations with either the short over dress or the long peplum bodice
(this is the first I remember seeing both on one figure), I wonder if the
artists might have mistaken a tuck of fabric like it is here in the Lotto
The commentary in the Dover reprint I got this from
says the whole upper section is a jacket, and it may
be. A lot of German peasant women in the woodcuts are
shown with jackets with a long peplum or skirting that
is definitly not a tuck of the skirt. That this one
has another colored band at the
I found the original post. The effergy is from c1535 and is of Edith Pexall
nee Brocas. This was noted by Dr. Jane Malcolm Davies. On first look I thought
it might be a fold in the kirtle at least thats what it looked like to me. The
kirtle looks almost to long almost as if it were more a
On Mar 29, 2008, at 3:49 AM, Kimiko Small wrote:
I have found the effigy monument that shows a short
gown over very long kirtle from Dr. Jane
Malcolm-Davies effigies web site.
The woman:
http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/sstormwatch/CostumeIdeas/?
action=viewcurrent=95_main.jpg
(
Thank you MaggiRos, I really appreciate these images
and where they came from.
I am going to collect as many as I can find, and try
to organize them to time and location, so I can try to
see a pattern, if any.
And the note that it is a jacket is similar to the
thought that the saint was wearing
Hello Lynn,
As far as I understand, smocks (aka chemises) were not
as long as to the floor, but usually somewhere around
the knee length, maybe to ankles. I am no expert on
smocks, tho.
Her status I think is that of gentlewoman, which may
or may not be noble in birth, but of higher station
than
Thank you Melanie for that clarification. I have the
article in question, but it is in my sewing room pile
of stuff (that I sooo need to clean up), so I hadn't
been able to read it yet.
Also, thanks for the other images to look for. I will
hunt those down, as I know I have one book, and may
have
That is the complete image I scanned in of that part
of the triptych, so anything further was not painted
(or has not survived). This is the full image I have.
http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/sstormwatch/CostumeIdeas/?action=viewcurrent=WithypoolAltr1514.jpg
( http://tinyurl.com/3ybmpy )
I
You would wonder, except she's got enough jewels on
her to buy a longer gown; so she must not be that
poor. But then, it is a Saint. It may represent
something I don't understand about her story or why
she and 11,000 virgins were all killed by the Huns
(maybe they dressed provocatively with these
Oh dear, humour crossing past each other and failing to meet! I meant
the girl in the St Nicholas painting - I'm assuming they are the three
poor girls who
couldn't marry because they had no dowries, so St Nicholas threw three
purses of money through their window one night (or something like
Do you have a picture of the entire effergy? I'm wondering if what looks like
a short gown over a kirtle is really a fold of the kirtle? Lynn
Cynthia Virtue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kimiko Small wrote:
I have found the effigy monument that shows a short
gown over very long kirtle from Dr.
That should teach ME to not read and reply really late
at night when I should just go to bed.
Sorry, I didn't catch which Saint image you were
referring to, and it was plain as day.
Kimiko
--- Jean Waddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oh dear, humour crossing past each other and failing
to meet!
http://www.tudoreffigies.co.uk/browse/view.asp?id=95
I am taking the word of Dr. Jane Malcolm-Davies as to
the skirt length, as she has viewed the effigy in
person, and I have not.
--- Lynn Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you have a picture of the entire effergy? I'm
wondering if what
Thank you Ann,
If you happen to have links to those images, or know
of a book source with some, please let me know off
list. I am going to collect them, so I can try to
learn what's going on.
And I could always make it up as a masque dress...
masques were quite popular in Henry's court, and from
--- Cynthia Virtue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
anip I'd be very interested to hear if anyone on
your other email
lists come up with a medieval source for it.
Thank you Cynthia. I am getting a few links, mostly
16th c., a few medieval (but on the longer end of
short), and will be collecting
Can you find a site with the St. Nick painting?
It is possible (without seeing the painting) that it could be a wide guard
or a replacement of a worn hem with different available material.
De
-Original Message-
Mary Tudor's lady in waiting, and the girl on the right in the St
Nicholas
Hi all,
I am looking for some help, mostly because I am
finding only a few
images of the following style of short over long
skirts (long kirtle, with short gown skirt) for the
early Henry VIII Tudor era. I am thinking that maybe
it may have been a medieval style, but I am barely
familiar with
I'm fairly sure it isn't medieval -- I can't think of an example which
shows a short skirt over a long one, although it should be noted that
*many* people making modern versions of medieval clothing wear them this
way*. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone on your other email
lists come
--- Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
few images of short over long skirts (long kirtle,
with short gown skirt)
Kimiko Small
I see many images of short skirts over longer ones,
and every one is allegorical.
This doesn't count tucked-up skirts, like one of the
maidens in the St.
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