Re: [Haifux] An introductory of sorts
while the industry is nice and all, if someone uses linux for homework, and then goes to the industry, he is still likely to choose the familiar windows desktop that he is used to. that is why i feel desktop linux is so important. and if beryl has the effect of creating desktop linux users, even for the most shallow and meaningless reason, i say we go for it. after all, anyone who uses linux on his desktop, is much more likely to use it at work. On 2/7/07, Eli Billauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks like you wanted this to go to the list...? Anyhow, we happen to agree on the purpose, not on how to achieve it. I believe that the main obstacle is to make people friendly with a new creature. And you get friendly with what you happen to have around. Yes, some people have switched to Linux without this, but how many of these are they? I believe that if a CS student did two courses with Linux, but ended up thinking that it's pretty handy, this could affect future decision about what to choose once he or she reaches the industry. Or at least be fully aware of the fact that something free can be useful. Which is much more than what is commonly thought. Eli boazg wrote: this is a very nice idea, and it would make CS student's lives easier, but it misses the goal of getting CS students to stick with linux after MATAM is done. while this would seem rather shallow, we have seen several people stick with ubuntu for beryl alone and no other reason. even if they end up not using it. sad but true. as for the custom distro, great idea, but if it used the user's NTFS drive it would make life simpler, and this distro would take time to make. time is the key. the simple show-off lecture takes little time to prepare. and last but not least, CSux is a problematic name. i would go with white night linux. or TauBuntu if it was ubuntu based. On 2/6/07, Eli Billauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to get into the mind of a student, who wants to get the exercises done. To most people, useful is the best way to attract someone to stay around. Since the birth of LiveCDs, there actually is a way to give a student something that can work right away. Packages are nice, but downloading them requires that you get your internet connection right under Linux. Desktops are cool, but they are not reason enough to switch from a well-known environment. I would suggest to create a CS Student edition (CSux is maybe a problematic name) of a some LiveCD/LiveDVD distro. The idea is to tweak an existing distro to include the environment a student needs for CS tasks, with a guarantee not to touch the hard disk. Files would be saved on disk-on-key. Maybe a 256 MB RAM disk could be used to keep the most commonly used executables and libraries. Something you can give away and say: Use it, it's good and it's safe. The relevant icons should be on the desktop (editor and maybe a page which gives some tips), so that the average student would get along well right away. And since this distro needs very basic hardware features, there's not even a rush to update it too often. The point is, that if a student uses a tool for a semester or two, there's no better way to make him or her aware of the existence of something else than Windows, which is actually good. Eli Ohad Lutzky wrote: Well, definitely, but this isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of there's this thing called Linux, and you'll be using it this semester, and you'll hear lots of horror stories, but here are a few cool things about it -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il
Re: [Haifux] An introductory of sorts
Not wanting to divert the discussion to side topics, I must comment that the OS and developement environemnent is usually imposed on you by the system administrators of your work place. As for the other ideas - I think that even if we give them only the basics, they will be more likely to listen to Linux arguements, and much less afraid of it in the future. so even without getting too much into desktops - we have a good effect all in all in such lectures. Orr. -- Orr Dunkelman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and OBOL, anon Spammers: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~orrd/spam.html GPG fingerprint: C2D5 C6D6 9A24 9A95 C5B3 2023 6CAB 4A7C B73F D0AA (This key will never sign Emails, only other PGP keys.) On Wed, 7 Feb 2007, boazg wrote: while the industry is nice and all, if someone uses linux for homework, and then goes to the industry, he is still likely to choose the familiar windows desktop that he is used to. that is why i feel desktop linux is so important. and if beryl has the effect of creating desktop linux users, even for the most shallow and meaningless reason, i say we go for it. after all, anyone who uses linux on his desktop, is much more likely to use it at work. On 2/7/07, Eli Billauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks like you wanted this to go to the list...? Anyhow, we happen to agree on the purpose, not on how to achieve it. I believe that the main obstacle is to make people friendly with a new creature. And you get friendly with what you happen to have around. Yes, some people have switched to Linux without this, but how many of these are they? I believe that if a CS student did two courses with Linux, but ended up thinking that it's pretty handy, this could affect future decision about what to choose once he or she reaches the industry. Or at least be fully aware of the fact that something free can be useful. Which is much more than what is commonly thought. Eli boazg wrote: this is a very nice idea, and it would make CS student's lives easier, but it misses the goal of getting CS students to stick with linux after MATAM is done. while this would seem rather shallow, we have seen several people stick with ubuntu for beryl alone and no other reason. even if they end up not using it. sad but true. as for the custom distro, great idea, but if it used the user's NTFS drive it would make life simpler, and this distro would take time to make. time is the key. the simple show-off lecture takes little time to prepare. and last but not least, CSux is a problematic name. i would go with white night linux. or TauBuntu if it was ubuntu based. On 2/6/07, Eli Billauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to get into the mind of a student, who wants to get the exercises done. To most people, useful is the best way to attract someone to stay around. Since the birth of LiveCDs, there actually is a way to give a student something that can work right away. Packages are nice, but downloading them requires that you get your internet connection right under Linux. Desktops are cool, but they are not reason enough to switch from a well-known environment. I would suggest to create a CS Student edition (CSux is maybe a problematic name) of a some LiveCD/LiveDVD distro. The idea is to tweak an existing distro to include the environment a student needs for CS tasks, with a guarantee not to touch the hard disk. Files would be saved on disk-on-key. Maybe a 256 MB RAM disk could be used to keep the most commonly used executables and libraries. Something you can give away and say: Use it, it's good and it's safe. The relevant icons should be on the desktop (editor and maybe a page which gives some tips), so that the average student would get along well right away. And since this distro needs very basic hardware features, there's not even a rush to update it too often. The point is, that if a student uses a tool for a semester or two, there's no better way to make him or her aware of the existence of something else than Windows, which is actually good. Eli Ohad Lutzky wrote: Well, definitely, but this isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of there's this thing called Linux, and you'll be using it this semester, and you'll hear lots of horror stories, but here are a few cool things about it -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] An introductory of sorts
Define equal and fair. My intention is to show a few screenshots, say that many prefer it, that many of those do prefer it because it's similar to certain other operating systems, that applications which work here almost always work identically there, that there are distributions (I plan on demonstrating Ubuntu, so I'll mention Kubuntu) which have it installed by default, and then get on with demonstrating Gnome. On 2/5/07, boazg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sounds like a great idea. just remember to use only well-tested stable beryl plug-ins. and give KDE an equal and fair chance. On 2/4/07, guy keren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohad Lutzky wrote: On 2/4/07, guy keren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and then you'll come and say oh, we need to give the lecture about debugging and developing on linux. wasn't it already agreed to re-run it for the spring semester students? Well, definitely, but this isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of there's this thing called Linux, and you'll be using it this semester, and you'll hear lots of horror stories, but here are a few cool things about it - proceed to show off stuff like desktop environments, package management, Beryl, LiveCDs... Stick a bit of lightweight F/OSS ideology and history in there... that is, something to make the people feel more at ease with Linux. Otherwise the clash with the unknowns of the commandline one experiences in Matam is often all that it takes to keep him locked in Proprietaria forever. well, go ahead and prepare this. then be ready to add the dev tools re-run ;) --guy - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm Ohad Lutzky - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] An introductory of sorts
I'm trying to get into the mind of a student, who wants to get the exercises done. To most people, useful is the best way to attract someone to stay around. Since the birth of LiveCDs, there actually is a way to give a student something that can work right away. Packages are nice, but downloading them requires that you get your internet connection right under Linux. Desktops are cool, but they are not reason enough to switch from a well-known environment. I would suggest to create a CS Student edition (CSux is maybe a problematic name) of a some LiveCD/LiveDVD distro. The idea is to tweak an existing distro to include the environment a student needs for CS tasks, with a guarantee not to touch the hard disk. Files would be saved on disk-on-key. Maybe a 256 MB RAM disk could be used to keep the most commonly used executables and libraries. Something you can give away and say: Use it, it's good and it's safe. The relevant icons should be on the desktop (editor and maybe a page which gives some tips), so that the average student would get along well right away. And since this distro needs very basic hardware features, there's not even a rush to update it too often. The point is, that if a student uses a tool for a semester or two, there's no better way to make him or her aware of the existence of something else than Windows, which is actually good. Eli Ohad Lutzky wrote: Well, definitely, but this isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of there's this thing called Linux, and you'll be using it this semester, and you'll hear lots of horror stories, but here are a few cool things about it -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] An introductory of sorts
Make it on top of icewm, and make it run using qemu on windows autostart. This will definetly kick some ass. ביום שלישי 06 פברואר 2007, 16:19, נכתב על ידי Eli Billauer: I'm trying to get into the mind of a student, who wants to get the exercises done. To most people, useful is the best way to attract someone to stay around. Since the birth of LiveCDs, there actually is a way to give a student something that can work right away. Packages are nice, but downloading them requires that you get your internet connection right under Linux. Desktops are cool, but they are not reason enough to switch from a well-known environment. I would suggest to create a CS Student edition (CSux is maybe a problematic name) of a some LiveCD/LiveDVD distro. The idea is to tweak an existing distro to include the environment a student needs for CS tasks, with a guarantee not to touch the hard disk. Files would be saved on disk-on-key. Maybe a 256 MB RAM disk could be used to keep the most commonly used executables and libraries. Something you can give away and say: Use it, it's good and it's safe. The relevant icons should be on the desktop (editor and maybe a page which gives some tips), so that the average student would get along well right away. And since this distro needs very basic hardware features, there's not even a rush to update it too often. The point is, that if a student uses a tool for a semester or two, there's no better way to make him or her aware of the existence of something else than Windows, which is actually good. Eli Ohad Lutzky wrote: Well, definitely, but this isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of there's this thing called Linux, and you'll be using it this semester, and you'll hear lots of horror stories, but here are a few cool things about it - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] An introductory of sorts
sounds like a great idea. just remember to use only well-tested stable beryl plug-ins. and give KDE an equal and fair chance. On 2/4/07, guy keren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohad Lutzky wrote: On 2/4/07, guy keren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and then you'll come and say oh, we need to give the lecture about debugging and developing on linux. wasn't it already agreed to re-run it for the spring semester students? Well, definitely, but this isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of there's this thing called Linux, and you'll be using it this semester, and you'll hear lots of horror stories, but here are a few cool things about it - proceed to show off stuff like desktop environments, package management, Beryl, LiveCDs... Stick a bit of lightweight F/OSS ideology and history in there... that is, something to make the people feel more at ease with Linux. Otherwise the clash with the unknowns of the commandline one experiences in Matam is often all that it takes to keep him locked in Proprietaria forever. well, go ahead and prepare this. then be ready to add the dev tools re-run ;) --guy - Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]