On 02/07/12 17:42, Andy Smith wrote:
If you look at Gnome 3, it's all different to Gnome 2 also. I would
say that this is a dramatic change forced upon almost all Linux
desktop users.
Change isn't the problem Andy, on the contrary I welcome it, it's the
pace of change and the accompanying
On 03/07/12 09:58, Andy Smith wrote:
Things were a little difficult at first with Unity. It really isn't
suited to having many different windows of the same application
open.
This is one of the things I don't understand at all - surely, that is
one of *the* biggest strengths of a windowing
On 3 July 2012 14:54, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote:
Having said that, as a developer on a moderately important piece of
software for the Unix/Linux world, and being responsible for the
releases of that software, my experience doesn't encourage me to believe
there's much listening going
On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:24:23 +0100
Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote:
Having said that, as a developer on a moderately important piece of
software for the Unix/Linux world, and being responsible for the
releases of that software, my experience doesn't encourage me to
believe there's much
On 03/07/12 09:58, Andy Smith wrote:
If Unity can't be made to work for you, I honestly think that there
are so many other more productive things to do about it than just
complain that it happened too fast and there is no choice.
Or simply switch across to Xubuntu, which is precisely what I
On 03/07/12 11:40, pavithran wrote:
On 3 July 2012 14:54, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote:
Having said that, as a developer on a moderately important piece of
software for the Unix/Linux world, and being responsible for the
releases of that software, my experience doesn't encourage me to
On 02/07/12 01:20, pavithran wrote:
Why should it be close to mac for new users who lets presume are
coming from windows world ? Or is the new target audience the
disgruntled mac users or people who want to use mac but can't afford
it ?
I wouldn't presume that users are coming from either Mac
On Monday 02 July 2012 01:49:29 Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
We're still all adults here, I think ?
I wouldn't count on it! Seriously, I hope that there are some who have no yet
reached adulthood. Catch 'em young and all the rest of it. And we perhaps
should set a good example?
There was
Oh, the irony, given my (not entirely serious) comment about returning
to a CLI world:
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/07/01/218255/has-the-command-line-outstayed-its-welcome
Here's one very good reason for for the command line to remain - even
(or especially!) for total beginners with the
On 02/07/12 13:19, john lewis wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 12:18:10 +0100
Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote:
I contend that the underlying strategic vision is flawed. It is we,
all the end users, who ought to be acquiring/gaining ever greater
empowerment, in transparency of
Hi Leszek,
Please can you trim your quotes a little? There was no need to quote
the full previous message (78 lines). It just means that everyone
has to scroll through it to reach your text which is then hard to
tell which bits (if any) you are actually replying to.
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at
On 02/07/12 17:37, Andy Smith wrote:
Hi Leszek,
Please can you trim your quotes a little? There was no need to quote the full
previous message (78 lines). It just means that everyone has to scroll
through it to reach your text which is then hard to tell which bits (if any)
you are
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 02:53:45 +0100
Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 30/06/12 12:29, john lewis wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:06 +0100
Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
On 10.04.x, you can access every
On 30/06/12 18:10, hants...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Saturday 30 June 2012 11:37:06 Alan Pope wrote:
I hear Debian is quite nice :)
I never expected to hear you say that! ;-)
I ran Red Hat on my systems for a while up until ~7.3. It was Hugo who
suggested I try Debian when I got sick of
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 02:53:45 +0100
Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote:
If I can't warm to Unity, I might well hafta go Debian
if you do decide to install Debian this will be relevant;
General questions
Q. How do I install unstable (sid) ?
See also
On 01/07/12 02:22, Full Circle Podcast wrote:
Oops, almost forgot, Popey:
You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but
I would question the sustainability of those desktops.
Nice plug of the corporate line,
It's not the corporate line, it's my personal
I very much feel there is a trend in interface design to favour the
new/occasional user, even when it will inconvenience the experienced
power user.
I think exactly the opposite, TBH.
All this searching for the application presupposes that the user knows
what the app is called. It doesn't
On 01/07/12 02:48, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
I understand Canonical's committed to Unity, but I still don't hafta
like its seizure of control over the old menu-driven experience
Sure, there's bits of Unity that I don't like either :)
What's worth noting is that it's not finished. We have a
On 01/07/12 03:11, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
Some private jokery-pokery here
No idea, I think Robin had been on the sherry. :)
But, more pragmatically, how to get Gnome fall-back session ?
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
Logout, log back in again but choose the fallback
On 01/07/12 10:07, Vic wrote:
I very much feel there is a trend in interface design to favour the
new/occasional user, even when it will inconvenience the experienced
power user.
I think exactly the opposite, TBH.
SNIP
Yeh, I see what you mean...
Perhaps I should have said: I very much
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote:
This is Unix, for heaven's sake, how can a terminal window *not* be
available right there, front and centre?
https://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+unity+terminal
Basically ctrl+alt+T (same as it has been on Ubuntu for some while).
Or press the Ubuntu
My main point, though, was about have ways of working imposed on me,
rather than me having control over them.
And I am right with you on that.
Luckily for me, the code I use is FOSS, so I do have the right to port the
old Gnome2 desktop to my current OS. But I am very much in the
On 01/07/12 10:18, Alan Pope wrote:
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote:
This is Unix, for heaven's sake, how can a terminal window *not* be
available right there, front and centre?
https://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+unity+terminal
Basically ctrl+alt+T (same as it has been on
On 01/07/12 10:26, Chris Liddell wrote:
So, clearly I'm wrong. I've always wanted to work the way Unity works, I
just didn't realise it..
I fail to see how being different is 'getting in the way'. There's a
learning curve with many things, but people seem to have a very low
tolerance
Just because GNOME 2 did it one way for years, doesn't make it the right
way.
Just because Gnome3 and Unity do it a different way, doesn't make it the
right way.
It would be really nice to have this discussion occasionally without being
told we're just wrong for wanting the old metaphor
On 01/07/12 10:33, Alan Pope wrote:
On 01/07/12 10:26, Chris Liddell wrote:
Are you channelling the ghost of Steve Jobs? There's our way, and
there's the wrong way is not an attitude I ever expected to find so
openly espoused in the Unix world, and especially not in the Linux world.
Just
On 1 July 2012 09:56, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote:
A bit late to this discussion, but never mind.
I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen
minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I concluded it was
not for me, at all - I switched to
On 01/07/12 10:38, Vic wrote:
Just because Gnome3 and Unity do it a different way, doesn't make it the
right way.
A convincing argument for GNOME 2 you have there.
It would be really nice to have this discussion occasionally without being
told we're just wrong for wanting the old metaphor
On 01/07/12 10:48, James Courtier-Dutton wrote:
On 1 July 2012 09:56, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote:
A bit late to this discussion, but never mind.
I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen
minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I
Andy,
Alan and I take the mick out of each other all the time (often on podcasts
and in IRC), and we've had this very conversation a couple of times. We
have very thick skins.
Merely pointing out a couple of pertinant facts.
--
Rgds
RC
Robin Catling
Full Circle Podcast
On 1 July 2012 02:30,
...and I haven't touched the sherry since 27 July 2000.
--
Rgds
RC
Robin Catling
Full Circle Podcast
I this this the right room for an argument?
I've told you once...
(Monty Python)
--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface:
A convincing argument for GNOME 2 you have there.
It was your argument in support of Unity. I was trying to point out how
fatuous it is.
Reducing it down to 'them and us' doesn't help
Of course it doesn't. It does, however, reflect the approach many of us
experience when we say that Unity
On 01/07/12 11:50, Vic wrote:
A convincing argument for GNOME 2 you have there.
It was your argument in support of Unity. I was trying to point out how
fatuous it is.
It wasn't meant in support of Unity, just that the fact that something
is de-facto standard doesn't make it right. That
On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 11:50:50 +0100 (BST)
Vic l...@beer.org.uk wrote:
Here's my suggestion: reinstate the Gnome2-like desktop. Do you
honestly think that will get treated seriously if I were to suggest
it on IRC? Because I've experienced quite enough invective for one
week, thankyouverymuch.
On 01/07/12 12:31, john lewis wrote:
I think what is happening with interface designers is that they are
assuming we are all going to be using tablets or screens with touch
interfaces and recent improved GUIs are designed with this in mind.
I hear this a lot. Mostly from people who have never
It wasn't meant in support of Unity
It was your response to Chris' comment that
'There's our way, and there's the wrong way is not an attitude I ever
expected to find so openly espoused in the Unix world, and especially not
in the Linux world.'
That would seem to be your argument in response
I mean, who wants to get stuck on a
proprietary desktop supported by only one commercial Linux
vendoroh.
Like GNOME Shell?
I
guess you're trying to imply that as unity==cannonical so
gnome==redhat but I think you are missing an important point, Gnome is
developed by the Gnome
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 12:41:39 +0100
Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
On 01/07/12 12:31, john lewis wrote:
I think what is happening with interface designers is that they are
assuming we are all going to be using tablets or screens with touch
interfaces and recent improved GUIs are
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 12:41:39 +0100
Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
If you look on youtube there's loads of videos of people trying out
Unity on tablets.
I forgot to mention that I barely even know what youtube is ;-)
--
John Lewis
Debian the GeneWeb genealogical data server
--
On 01/07/12 12:50, Vic wrote:
The test machine was a Lenovo ThinkPad T410i running Ubuntu Natty with
unity 3.8.2-0ubuntu1 and compiz 1:0.9.4git20110322-0ubuntu5.
So it's not a side-by-side test to see which model users prefer, it's a
simplistic can they use this model?
That's not the goal of
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote:
A bit late to this discussion, but never mind.
I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen
minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I concluded it was
not for me, at all - I switched to Xfce for now. I may go
On 01/07/12 14:51, Samuel Penn wrote:
On Sunday 01 July 2012 10:45:56 Chris Liddell wrote:
SNIP
What GNOME 2 did right, *eventually*, was allow a hell of a lot of the
functionality to be configured by the user, should the user wish to do so.
But it was Gnome 2 which removed all that
On 01/07/12 14:51, Tony Wood wrote:
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote:
SNIP
--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
On 01/07/12 17:13, Chris Liddell wrote:
On 01/07/12 14:51, Tony Wood wrote:
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote:
SNIP
--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote:
A bit late to this discussion, but never mind.
I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen
minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I concluded it was
not for me, at all - I switched to Xfce for now. I may go
On 01/07/12 09:58, Alan Pope wrote:
On 01/07/12 02:22, Full Circle Podcast wrote:
Oops, almost forgot, Popey:
You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or
Mate, but
I would question the sustainability of those desktops.
Nice plug of the corporate line,
It's not the
On 2 July 2012 05:24, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Trouble is, we slightly longer users in time, are some of the key
recommenders of a distro to new entrants
+1 to that :)
If a desktop cripples established ease-of-use, forcing a completely
different operational
On 01/07/12 10:14, Alan Pope wrote:
On 01/07/12 03:11, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
Some private jokery-pokery here
No idea, I think Robin had been on the sherry. :)
But, more pragmatically, how to get Gnome fall-back session ?
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
Logout, log back
On 01/07/12 10:33, Alan Pope wrote:
On 01/07/12 10:26, Chris Liddell wrote:
So, clearly I'm wrong. I've always wanted to work the way Unity works, I
just didn't realise it..
I fail to see how being different is 'getting in the way'. There's a
learning curve with many things, but people
On 01/07/12 10:38, Vic wrote:
Just because GNOME 2 did it one way for years, doesn't make it the right
way.
Just because Gnome3 and Unity do it a different way, doesn't make it the
right way.
It would be really nice to have this discussion occasionally without being
told we're just wrong
On 01/07/12 10:48, James Courtier-Dutton wrote:
On 1 July 2012 09:56, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote:
A bit late to this discussion, but never mind.
I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen
minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I
On 01/07/12 10:52, Alan Pope wrote:
On 01/07/12 10:38, Vic wrote:
Just because Gnome3 and Unity do it a different way, doesn't make it
the
right way.
A convincing argument for GNOME 2 you have there.
It would be really nice to have this discussion occasionally without
being
told we're
Hi all
I've been struggling with Unity/Ubuntu 12.04 on a Mac
Desktop seems a good deal less usable than in the pre-Unity days
On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever
so easily
Is there a SysAdmin's walkthrough, of how to return a Unity desktop to
full
On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever
so easily
In 12.04 it's very search-oriented. Press the Ubuntu button then click
the second lens along (Applications Lens) or just tap the Windows
(super) key + A and then
On 30 June 2012 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Hi all
I've been struggling with Unity/Ubuntu 12.04 on a Mac
Desktop seems a good deal less usable than in the pre-Unity days
On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever
so easily
On Saturday 30 June 2012 11:37:06 Alan Pope wrote:
I hear Debian is quite nice :)
I never expected to hear you say that! ;-)
Lisi
--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
On 30 June 2012 12:29, john lewis zen57...@zen.co.uk wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:06 +0100
Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed,
ever so easily
In 12.04 it's very
On 30 June 2012 16:07, Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I
would question the sustainability of those desktops.
Almost the same issue here when I was roaming around desktops and
landed on Ubuntu 12.04 with unity .
Who are you and what have you done with the real Alan Pope?
Question about Unity and HUD that no-one's yet answered: why are you making
me type and search for stuff that I used to, errm... have in nice menus and
panels? Still not beginner friendly (I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to
take it any
Oops, almost forgot, Popey:
You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but
I would question the sustainability of those desktops.
Nice plug of the corporate line, I mean, who wants to get stuck on a
proprietary desktop supported by only one commercial Linux
Hello,
On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 02:22:58AM +0100, Full Circle Podcast wrote:
I use it on all my machines, I guess that makes me a dummy.
We couldn't possibly comment. But then again, if you're Canonical's Product
Strategy Manager, you are kind of obliged to eat your own dog food.
This was
On 30/06/12 11:37, Alan Pope wrote:
On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever
so easily
In 12.04 it's very search-oriented. Press the Ubuntu button then
click the second lens along (Applications Lens) or just tap
On 30/06/12 12:29, john lewis wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:06 +0100
Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote:
On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed,
ever so easily
In 12.04 it's very search-oriented. Press the
On 30/06/12 20:44, pavithran wrote:
On 30 June 2012 16:07, Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote:
You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I
would question the sustainability of those desktops.
Almost the same issue here when I was roaming around desktops
On 01/07/12 02:17, Full Circle Podcast wrote:
Who are you and what have you done with the real Alan Pope?
Question about Unity and HUD that no-one's yet answered: why are you
making me type and search for stuff that I used to, errm... have in
nice menus and panels? Still not beginner friendly
On 01/07/12 02:30, Andy Smith wrote:
Hello,
On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 02:22:58AM +0100, Full Circle Podcast wrote:
I use it on all my machines, I guess that makes me a dummy.
We couldn't possibly comment. But then again, if you're Canonical's Product
Strategy Manager, you are kind of obliged
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