> On May 24, 2020, at 6:34 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> From: Khaled Hosny
>> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:00:45 +0200
>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>
>
>> This, for example, ensures that HarfBuzz can do basic Arabic-like shaping
>> across item boundaries e.g. if you break items in
> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 20:27:26 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> It seems to me that Emacs knows what script a cluster is in; perhaps
> it just hasn't united the concepts.
It's a kind of coincidence: different scripts almost always require
different
On Sun, 24 May 2020 17:18:27 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 21:42:24 +0100
> > From: Richard Wordingham
> > > As for different scripts: if the character codepoints are the
> > > same, Emacs currently assigns each character to a single script.
> > I'll need to dig
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:00:45 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> In general the safest is to pass the whole paragraph of text and the start
> and length of each item (item being a run with same font, direction, script,
> and language).
I was talking about
> On May 24, 2020, at 5:41 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>>> I almost understand (and agree), sans one part: the "arbitrary parts"
>>> of what you wrote. If we want to produce a ligature out of "ffi", the
>>> shaper will get "fii" and nothing more. Which part here is arbitrary?
>>
>> Sending
> > I almost understand (and agree), sans one part: the "arbitrary parts"
> > of what you wrote. If we want to produce a ligature out of "ffi", the
> > shaper will get "fii" and nothing more. Which part here is arbitrary?
>
> Sending "ffi" alone is an arbitrary decision. The font might have
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 21:42:24 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
>
> > As for different scripts: if the character codepoints are the same,
> > Emacs currently assigns each character to a single script.
>
> I'll need to dig deeper. Composition of both 'a' and Greek alpha with
> an acute
On Sat, 23 May 2020 19:45:17 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 16:54:51 +0100
> > From: Richard Wordingham
> > Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
> >
> > > Emacs supports more than one rule for each composable sequence of
> > > characters.
> >
> > That doesn't help
On 23/05/2020 08:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
Thanks. Since (b) is not really feasible without redesigning the
entire Emacs display engine (for which I see no volunteers lining up
any time soon), I guess we will have to use some more-or-less
reasonable and somewhat unreliable heuristics by
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
> From: Simon Cozens
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:14:16 +0100
>
> On 23/05/2020 08:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Thanks. Since (b) is not really feasible without redesigning the
> > entire Emacs display engine (for which I see no volunteers lining up
> > any
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:06:32 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
>
> There are three different tools for producing what looks like an "ffi"
> ligature:
>
> 1) Make a ligature
> 2) Contextual substitution
> 3) A mix of contextual substitution and kerning.
>
> A font that uses the first will
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:54:15 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> > We pass to the shaper the part of text that matches the regexps you
> > can see at the end of misc-lang.el, then display the glyphs the shaper
> > returns. The above description is a
On Sat, 23 May 2020 21:26:00 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: Khaled Hosny
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:09:50 +0200
> > Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
> >
> > Overall, if you can’t send the whole text (words are the absolute
> > minimum, but this has its issues as well), don’t just
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:40:44 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> Sending “ffi” alone is an arbitrary decision. The font might have kerning
> between “ffi” and what comes before and after it, but you won’t get it. The
> font might not hav a ligature for
> On May 23, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> From: Khaled Hosny
>> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:18:33 +0200
>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>
>>> The Emacs display engine examines the text to be displayed and laid
>>> out one character at a time, and makes layout decisions
> On May 23, 2020, at 8:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> From: Khaled Hosny
>> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:09:50 +0200
>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>
>> Overall, if you can’t send the whole text (words are the absolute minimum,
>> but this has its issues as well), don’t just send
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:18:33 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> > The Emacs display engine examines the text to be displayed and laid
> > out one character at a time, and makes layout decisions after each
> > character or grapheme cluster it lays out. Its
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 20:09:50 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> Overall, if you can’t send the whole text (words are the absolute minimum,
> but this has its issues as well), don’t just send arbitrary parts of it as
> the result will be some inconsistent
> On May 23, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> From: Khaled Hosny
>> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:59:15 +0200
>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>
>> Also either Emacs is currently treating text that it enables shaping for as
>> second-class citizens where limitations/degraded
> On May 23, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> From: Khaled Hosny
>> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:51:21 +0200
>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>
>>> Thanks. Since (b) is not really feasible without redesigning the
>>> entire Emacs display engine (for which I see no volunteers
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 16:54:51 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> > Emacs supports more than one rule for each composable sequence of
> > characters.
>
> That doesn't help when the rules give conflicting divisions into
> clusters, which is the case with
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 16:33:12 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
>
> On Sat, 23 May 2020 11:25:38 +0300
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> > > From: Khaled Hosny
> > > Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:51:21 +0200
> > > Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > > What are you going to do about kerning, or
On Sat, 23 May 2020 17:22:58 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 14:51:53 +0100
> > From: Richard Wordingham
> >
> > > > They may of course have more than one set of such rules, with
> > > > the rule sets defining different sets of sequences.
> > >
> > > Who are "they"
On Sat, 23 May 2020 11:25:38 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: Khaled Hosny
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:51:21 +0200
> > Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > What are you going to do about kerning, or mark positioning?
> > Partially kerning arbitrary glyphs (because the sub string match
>
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 14:51:53 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
>
> > > They may of course have more than one set of such rules, with the
> > > rule sets defining different sets of sequences.
> >
> > Who are "they" in this context?
>
> Devanagari and Tai Tham are two examples I am aware
On Sat, 23 May 2020 09:09:48 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 22:22:49 +0100
> > From: Richard Wordingham
> >
> > > The current support for producing ligatures works in the same way
> > > as complex text shaping for scripts that require that, like
> > > Arabic and Khmer:
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:59:15 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> Also either Emacs is currently treating text that it enables shaping for as
> second-class citizens where limitations/degraded performance is acceptable
> (which is really really bad)
Could
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:51:21 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> > Thanks. Since (b) is not really feasible without redesigning the
> > entire Emacs display engine (for which I see no volunteers lining up
> > any time soon), I guess we will have to use some
> On May 23, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>
>
>
>> On May 23, 2020, at 9:44 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>
>>> From: Khaled Hosny
>>> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 08:36:10 +0200
>>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>>
The only
> On May 23, 2020, at 9:44 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> From: Khaled Hosny
>> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 08:36:10 +0200
>> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>>
>>> The only way of
>>> doing this right, I'm told, is to either (a) query the
> From: Khaled Hosny
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 08:36:10 +0200
> Cc: harfbuzz@lists.freedesktop.org
>
> >The only way of
> > doing this right, I'm told, is to either (a) query the font to get the
> > list of all the ligatures it supports, or
> On May 22, 2020, at 9:32 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a bit off-topic, but I thought it could be appropriate to ask
> here, since we have here some of the best experts on this subject.
>
> We are discussing support for ligatures in Emacs, specifically when
> using HarfBuzz
> Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 22:22:49 +0100
> From: Richard Wordingham
>
> > The current support for producing ligatures works in the same way as
> > complex text shaping for scripts that require that, like Arabic and
> > Khmer: the sequences of characters that can be displayed as ligatures
> > are
On Fri, 22 May 2020 22:32:04 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Can someone please tell what are the recommended practices regarding
> these ligatures? Is the set of possible ligatures indeed infinite and
> impossible to know in advance? And does HarfBuzz have APIs to query a
> font about the
On Fri, 22 May 2020 22:32:04 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a bit off-topic, but I thought it could be appropriate to ask
> here, since we have here some of the best experts on this subject.
>
> We are discussing support for ligatures in Emacs, specifically when
> using HarfBuzz
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 05:53:04PM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
On 02/19/2013 05:47 PM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 05:34:40PM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
As for *where* to cut the ligature, here's what you need:
* Count the number of cursor positions *inside* the
On 19/2/13 23:35, Lóránt Pintér wrote:
Using ZWNJ would be a great way of fixing it. And indeed it splits the
ligature all right, but it also destroys the kerning. Here's a little
test I did with HarfBuzz @ e0486fc1affd3796fb8f664e2e7fc208f1d2106c:
(the font has an fi ligature, and has some
I'm trying this with a font that has the kerning data in the kern table as
well as in the GPOS table. (Is that possible?)
Can you show me a font that this feature works with?
--
Lóránt Pintér
Developer at Prezi (http://prezi.com)
On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Jonathan
On 20/2/13 12:24, Lóránt Pintér wrote:
I'm trying this with a font that has the kerning data in the kern
table as well as in the GPOS table. (Is that possible?)
Can you show me a font that this feature works with?
I thought we'd seen it work last week, but now it doesn't seem to. :(
Behdad,
Hi Lóránt,
On 02/19/2013 12:20 PM, Lóránt Pintér wrote:
Hi,
I have a problem with half-colored ligatures, like (5) mfim in the image:
Right. That's one of the harder issues of text rendering.
I figured out two ways to do this, but neither is good enough:
* I can shape each color
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 05:34:40PM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
Is there maybe a way to tell HarfBuzz to ignore ligatures if they span that
color boundary? Or is there maybe a way to (quickly) assess if liga would
be
applied to a range of characters?
We don't have a good answer for
On 02/19/2013 05:47 PM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 05:34:40PM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
Is there maybe a way to tell HarfBuzz to ignore ligatures if they span that
color boundary? Or is there maybe a way to (quickly) assess if liga would
be
applied to a range of
On 19/2/13 22:34, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
Hi Lóránt,
On 02/19/2013 12:20 PM, Lóránt Pintér wrote:
Hi,
I have a problem with half-colored ligatures, like (5) mfim in the image:
Right. That's one of the harder issues of text rendering.
I figured out two ways to do this, but neither is good
Using ZWNJ would be a great way of fixing it. And indeed it splits the ligature
all right, but it also destroys the kerning. Here's a little test I did with
HarfBuzz @ e0486fc1affd3796fb8f664e2e7fc208f1d2106c: (the font has an fi
ligature, and has some kerning between F and ,)
Splitting the
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