Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
On 6/8/05, Deadman Standing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Based on the quake code here is what the move command passes: > > BYTE 3 (means move) > FLOAT time (Used to calculate lag, ping, and movement) > ANGLE viewangle X > ANGLE viewangle Y > ANGLE viewangle Z > > // The next three are the velocity of the player > SHORT forward_movement > SHORT sideway_movement > SHORT up_movement > > BYTE bits (for attack and jump) > BYTE impluse > > "I don't have the SDK at work, so I can't check anything atm, but I am still > working on HL1 so I'm wondering if there has been any major changes to the > networking code for HL2. I think it's at least as spoofable as people seem > to have similar issues." > > As martino wrote about HL2 lag compensation: > > " The extra lantency caused by lower update rates is part of the general > client latency. The actual code uses timestamps send with the user commands > to set the execution time. These timestamps are checked against the average > latency and if they are within a valid range, these timestamps are used > since they are more precise then the calculation as stated in the doc. We > can't fully rely on these timestamps since "speedhackers" could alter them." > > It appears HL2 has some level of detection for this, just do not know to > what extent. Where did you get that from? Not saying you're wrong, just want to read the whole thing :) > "It would seem that if the client sends it's game time with it's packets > then it really is trivial to stop speed hacks. It becomes very simple to > calculate velocity/time and compare that to sv_maxspeed. It also becomes > trival to simply ignore any packet from the future." > > sv_maxspeed is irrelevant. Calcs for maxspeed are already part of the > velocity calculation and are correct. The key is the differences in the time > stamps between packets compared to differences in real world time of when > the packets arrived. If you compare the delta's of the message embedded > times to the delta's of the real world times of when the packets arrived it > should work (in theory). So if embedded delta's of the last two messages are > 100 yet the real world delta's of when the packets arrived is 5 you would > know something was up. > > The danger is a laggy player could appear as a speed hacker if you make the > detection too sensitive (since network lag and UDP packet loss really do > happen). So that leaves a window where some speed hacking will always be > possible. Two things, first wouldn't lagged players be sending you older packets/times not future ones? Second, I think it should be up to the server admin to choose to support HPB's if it's the main reason speed hacks exist. Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
Based on the quake code here is what the move command passes: BYTE 3 (means move) FLOAT time (Used to calculate lag, ping, and movement) ANGLE viewangle X ANGLE viewangle Y ANGLE viewangle Z // The next three are the velocity of the player SHORT forward_movement SHORT sideway_movement SHORT up_movement BYTE bits (for attack and jump) BYTE impluse "I don't have the SDK at work, so I can't check anything atm, but I am still working on HL1 so I'm wondering if there has been any major changes to the networking code for HL2. I think it's at least as spoofable as people seem to have similar issues." As martino wrote about HL2 lag compensation: " The extra lantency caused by lower update rates is part of the general client latency. The actual code uses timestamps send with the user commands to set the execution time. These timestamps are checked against the average latency and if they are within a valid range, these timestamps are used since they are more precise then the calculation as stated in the doc. We can't fully rely on these timestamps since "speedhackers" could alter them." It appears HL2 has some level of detection for this, just do not know to what extent. "It would seem that if the client sends it's game time with it's packets then it really is trivial to stop speed hacks. It becomes very simple to calculate velocity/time and compare that to sv_maxspeed. It also becomes trival to simply ignore any packet from the future." sv_maxspeed is irrelevant. Calcs for maxspeed are already part of the velocity calculation and are correct. The key is the differences in the time stamps between packets compared to differences in real world time of when the packets arrived. If you compare the delta's of the message embedded times to the delta's of the real world times of when the packets arrived it should work (in theory). So if embedded delta's of the last two messages are 100 yet the real world delta's of when the packets arrived is 5 you would know something was up. The danger is a laggy player could appear as a speed hacker if you make the detection too sensitive (since network lag and UDP packet loss really do happen). So that leaves a window where some speed hacking will always be possible. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Fearn Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:24 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live I don't think it passes velocity, what Botman said was that it passes the impulse keys and that the server calculates your velocity from your existing velocity and the effect those impulse keys have on that velocity. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
On 6/8/05, Jeffrey botman Broome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeffrey "botman" Broome wrote: > > > > Use the source Luke... > > > > src\game_shared\usercmd.h (see the "CUserCmd& operator =" function) > > src\game_shared\usercmd.cpp (see the WriteUserCmd & ReadUserCmd functions) > > > > UserCmd is what's passed from the client to the server when a client > > moves, jumps, ducks, fires weapon, etc. > > > > Any magic that happens will happen in side there. :) > > Doooh! I hit "Send" to quick. Two mistakes, you are HUMAN! ;) > You'll notice that "forwardmove" and "sidemove" are 'floats' so I was > wrong. The total amount of movement is passed from the client to the > server saying "I've moved THIS much during the last tick.". > > Now it becomes obvious how sending packets with "I've moved X amount > during the last Y seconds" can cause the player to move faster than > normal on the server if the client lies about how much the client has > moved or how long/short the time interval was. It still is not obvious, to me at least, why solving or at least highly limiting the spoofing of this is difficult. I don't have the SDK at work, so I can't check anything atm, but I am still working on HL1 so I'm wondering if there has been any major changes to the networking code for HL2. I think it's at least as spoofable as people seem to have similar issues. Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
Jeff Fearn wrote: On 6/7/05, McCormack, Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ask someone at Valve :) Good idea, I hear there is another email list where some of the guys for Valve join in the discussion, I'll go post there ;) Use the source Luke... src\game_shared\usercmd.h (see the "CUserCmd& operator =" function) src\game_shared\usercmd.cpp (see the WriteUserCmd & ReadUserCmd functions) UserCmd is what's passed from the client to the server when a client moves, jumps, ducks, fires weapon, etc. Any magic that happens will happen in side there. :) -- Jeffrey "botman" Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
Jeffrey "botman" Broome wrote: Use the source Luke... src\game_shared\usercmd.h (see the "CUserCmd& operator =" function) src\game_shared\usercmd.cpp (see the WriteUserCmd & ReadUserCmd functions) UserCmd is what's passed from the client to the server when a client moves, jumps, ducks, fires weapon, etc. Any magic that happens will happen in side there. :) Doooh! I hit "Send" to quick. You'll notice that "forwardmove" and "sidemove" are 'floats' so I was wrong. The total amount of movement is passed from the client to the server saying "I've moved THIS much during the last tick.". Now it becomes obvious how sending packets with "I've moved X amount during the last Y seconds" can cause the player to move faster than normal on the server if the client lies about how much the client has moved or how long/short the time interval was. -- Jeffrey "botman" Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
On 6/7/05, McCormack, Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ask someone at Valve :) Good idea, I hear there is another email list where some of the guys for Valve join in the discussion, I'll go post there ;) Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] Maya exporter for OS X
This has probably been asked several times before, but is there any possibility of getting a Maya export plugin for OS X? If we had the source for the exporter, we could likely port it without _too_ much difficulty, but I believe all we have is the 3DSMax exporter. If a port isn't done by Valve (rather likely), would it be possible to acquire the source for the Windows one so we can port it ourselves? -- -James "Corvidae" Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
On 6/7/05, Deadman Standing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > LOl, it is the same thing. The movement command is based on time, that is > why velocity not position is passed. Keep in mind velocity is a measurement > of distance over time. If you advance time it thinks you traveled farther. I don't think it passes velocity, what Botman said was that it passes the impulse keys and that the server calculates your velocity from your existing velocity and the effect those impulse keys have on that velocity. Are you saying that the server is ticking along and the client is ticking at say twice as fast and the server processes ticks from the client that the servers knows are in future? It would seem that if the client sends it's game time with it's packets then it really is trivial to stop speed hacks. It becomes very simple to calculate velocity/time and compare that to sv_maxspeed. It also becomes trival to simply ignore any packet from the future. It's also fairly simple to modify that to handle teleporters and such, which aren't used in most mods anyway. It's a little more difficult, but not hugely so, to include the effects of known environmental effects, like explosions and vehicles etc. > You can look at the old quake code to get a fell how this is done. Also look > on the web, there are some open source hacks out there. They basically speed > time up for the program. This is an easy fix, ignore packets from more than a few seconds in the future. This wouldn't completely remove such hacks, but it would certainly limit them significantly. I suppose what I'm trying to find out is why this is hard to fix, I haven't heard any reason I would consider a blocker to significantly reducing the effectiveness of these hacks. Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [OT] [hlcoders] as maps and chickens
chickens,.. who cares of chickens? what everybody want its a mod "Kill the kittens" with Domo-kun player models !! http://cardhouse.com/travel/japan/domokun.htm McCormack, Chris wrote: Good luck with that btw, as_highrise was one of the best cs maps ever. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LDuke Sent: 07 June 2005 03:32 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] as maps and chickens Sorry, I'll try there. I started programming a couple months ago, and this is the only list I've been reading so it was the one I thought of. On 6/6/05, Adam amckern Mckern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It all sounds well and good, but this is more for the mappers mail list --- LDuke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm a huge CS fan and tried my hand at mapping before I moved on to server plugins. When CSS came out and didn't have the chickens, I thought it would be fun to make a map where the chickens had been found and, instead of rescuing hostages or preventing a bombing, the CT's had to rescue the chickens. I finally completed a release version of cs_chickenrun this month. After the release, I was contacted by Eric from BringBackTheChickens.com. He wants me to make a map specifically designed for BBTC in the hopes of bringing more attention to his cause, specifically more attention from the people at Valve. Apparently, he has both of the original creators of cs_italy supporting him in his "cause." I would just like to know, what are the chances that the chickens will ever be added to CS:Source? It seems like a lot of the missing classic stuff is important to the CS fans. I've seen so much about as_oilrig, that I'm writing a server plugin to allow as_ style maps to be played. I've just reached a working beta stage now using one of the HL2 models as the VIP. Not that I'm saying Valve should add as_ maps. That would make my plugin useless :) I'm also considering a plugin to allow players to choose from 1 of 4 custom models, similar to how CS had the 4 models per team (and yes I will use the Valve provided menu system). I've rambled, but I guess mostly I'd just like to know if adding the chickens to cs_italy is something that would even be considered. Thank you, L. Duke ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] as maps and chickens
Good luck with that btw, as_highrise was one of the best cs maps ever. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LDuke Sent: 07 June 2005 03:32 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] as maps and chickens Sorry, I'll try there. I started programming a couple months ago, and this is the only list I've been reading so it was the one I thought of. On 6/6/05, Adam amckern Mckern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It all sounds well and good, but this is more for the > mappers mail list > > --- LDuke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm a huge CS fan and tried my hand at mapping > > before I moved on to > > server plugins. When CSS came out and didn't have > > the chickens, I > > thought it would be fun to make a map where the > > chickens had been > > found and, instead of rescuing hostages or > > preventing a bombing, the > > CT's had to rescue the chickens. I finally completed > > a release version > > of cs_chickenrun this month. > > > > After the release, I was contacted by Eric from > > BringBackTheChickens.com. He wants me to make a map > > specifically > > designed for BBTC in the hopes of bringing more > > attention to his > > cause, specifically more attention from the people > > at Valve. > > Apparently, he has both of the original creators of > > cs_italy > > supporting him in his "cause." > > > > I would just like to know, what are the chances that > > the chickens will > > ever be added to CS:Source? > > > > It seems like a lot of the missing classic stuff is > > important to the > > CS fans. I've seen so much about as_oilrig, that I'm > > writing a server > > plugin to allow as_ style maps to be played. I've > > just reached a > > working beta stage now using one of the HL2 models > > as the VIP. Not > > that I'm saying Valve should add as_ maps. That > > would make my plugin > > useless :) I'm also considering a plugin to allow > > players to choose > > from 1 of 4 custom models, similar to how CS had the > > 4 models per team > > (and yes I will use the Valve provided menu system). > > > > I've rambled, but I guess mostly I'd just like to > > know if adding the > > chickens to cs_italy is something that would even be > > considered. > > > > Thank you, > > L. Duke > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view > > the list archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > http://ammahls.com > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders * This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and are intended for the above named recipient only. If this has come to you in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. You must take no action based on this, nor must you copy or disclose it or any part of its contents to any person or organisation. Statements and opinions contained in this email may not necessarily represent those of Littlewoods Group Limited or its subsidiaries. Please note that e-mail communications may be monitored. The Registered Office of Littlewoods Group Limited and its subsidiaries is 100 Old Hall Street, Liverpool, L70 1AB. Registered number of Littlewoods Group Limited is 5059352. * This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
LOl, it is the same thing. The movement command is based on time, that is why velocity not position is passed. Keep in mind velocity is a measurement of distance over time. If you advance time it thinks you traveled farther. You can look at the old quake code to get a fell how this is done. Also look on the web, there are some open source hacks out there. They basically speed time up for the program. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Fearn Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:37 AM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live On 6/6/05, Deadman Standing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is based on world time, not # of commands. A speed hack is essentially an > exploit of the server's lag compensation. Number of commands is irrelevant. > A speed hack would still work if you were to only send a packet a second. I think you are wrong, Botman said this earlier: On 6/3/05, Jeffrey botman Broome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff Fearn wrote: > > > > Am I correct that a player does not actually state their position in > > the world but simply gives impulses (buttons), and therefore it's the > > number of impulses per second that allows speed hacking? > > Yes, I believe that is correct. The player sends movement commands to > the server and the server says "H, okay you are moving in this > direction, let me calculate your new velocity and location based on > where I think you were before and which way you were going before and > then I'll send that information back to you." The client doesn't even > specify HOW MUCH they moved (i.e. the distance during that update). The > client only says "I'm moving THIS way now". So now I'm stuck, do I believe Botman or Deadman! Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
Ask someone at Valve :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Fearn Sent: 07 June 2005 08:37 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live On 6/6/05, Deadman Standing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is based on world time, not # of commands. A speed hack is essentially an > exploit of the server's lag compensation. Number of commands is irrelevant. > A speed hack would still work if you were to only send a packet a second. I think you are wrong, Botman said this earlier: On 6/3/05, Jeffrey botman Broome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff Fearn wrote: > > > > Am I correct that a player does not actually state their position in > > the world but simply gives impulses (buttons), and therefore it's the > > number of impulses per second that allows speed hacking? > > Yes, I believe that is correct. The player sends movement commands to > the server and the server says "H, okay you are moving in this > direction, let me calculate your new velocity and location based on > where I think you were before and which way you were going before and > then I'll send that information back to you." The client doesn't even > specify HOW MUCH they moved (i.e. the distance during that update). The > client only says "I'm moving THIS way now". So now I'm stuck, do I believe Botman or Deadman! Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders * This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and are intended for the above named recipient only. If this has come to you in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. You must take no action based on this, nor must you copy or disclose it or any part of its contents to any person or organisation. Statements and opinions contained in this email may not necessarily represent those of Littlewoods Group Limited or its subsidiaries. Please note that e-mail communications may be monitored. The Registered Office of Littlewoods Group Limited and its subsidiaries is 100 Old Hall Street, Liverpool, L70 1AB. Registered number of Littlewoods Group Limited is 5059352. * This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Speed hack detection, was new SDK version is live
On 6/6/05, Deadman Standing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is based on world time, not # of commands. A speed hack is essentially an > exploit of the server's lag compensation. Number of commands is irrelevant. > A speed hack would still work if you were to only send a packet a second. I think you are wrong, Botman said this earlier: On 6/3/05, Jeffrey botman Broome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff Fearn wrote: > > > > Am I correct that a player does not actually state their position in > > the world but simply gives impulses (buttons), and therefore it's the > > number of impulses per second that allows speed hacking? > > Yes, I believe that is correct. The player sends movement commands to > the server and the server says "H, okay you are moving in this > direction, let me calculate your new velocity and location based on > where I think you were before and which way you were going before and > then I'll send that information back to you." The client doesn't even > specify HOW MUCH they moved (i.e. the distance during that update). The > client only says "I'm moving THIS way now". So now I'm stuck, do I believe Botman or Deadman! Jeff ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] m_Skins on models and other things
Natural Selection dunno what "ns" is ? r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: "Adam "amckern" Mckern" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] m_Skins on models and other things you mean like the "flashlight" effect in ns, when you play aliens? --- "r00t 3:16" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have something I am working which (if possible) would allow the modelor to set a special skin for certain effects. Is it possible to change to the special skin so only certain players can see the special skin? Hopefully I explained that enough.. r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders http://ammahls.com __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
