Re: [hlds] Vac Ban for Idle program @ Source Op?
This. I imagine the purpose of the VAC system is to stop cheats that give an unfair advantage. Idling in a server, be it by minimised official client or third-party client is no different. It's still idling. Not to mention the fact that even if VALVe wanted to design the system to block/ban this particular client, they couldn't, as the server it connects to is not VAC secure (probably for exactly that reason, they aren't pretending to be a legitimate way to play the game). People are creating a storm in a teacup about this, it's a very small percentage of a very large player base that use it. And even then this whole argument is a moot point, as achievements are now grindable again to gain unlocks (YAY!). /thread ___ Shane Arnold- clontar...@iinet.net.au For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the messenger was lost. For want of a messenger, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message the war was lost. tgnwells wrote: It's not really any different than running TF2 in an idling server and minimizing the window, I wouldn't say it's very honest but I wouldn't really classify it as a cheat. And VACs main purpose is protecting the game process, I don't think you could get VAC banned from just manipulating the Steam API to perform simple tricks like this unless you do it from within the game, while connected to a VAC secured server. Although it seems possible if you were to try to connect to a legitimate (VAC enabled) server using what would appear to be a phony client that VAC might flag your account, although I think it'd most likely just refuse the connection. On 5/31/2009 4:01 PM, SakeFox wrote: I really shouldn't be starting in on this since I really want this thread to die, but by your logic using a application to let me see through walls to improve my performance is no difference then using custom materials that let me see through wall for better performance. Donnie Newlove wrote: In the end the only difference between idling in your app or idling in TF2 is RAM, CPU and if not minimized, GPU used. It's no more cheating than running TF2 in DX8 mode to get better performance. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Cc2iscooLcc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as it mimics idling in a server even though you're not idling in a server it could be considered a cheat. You're not actually running a game. You're using a program to emulate the game's function of connecting to a server. As far as I'm concerned that seems like cheating to me. It's like editing your punch times at work to say you were working when you really took the day off instead, and you're still getting paid. While you can't really get in trouble if you have nothing to do all day at work, you can get in trouble for editing your time sheet to say you were at work when you actually weren't. iGiggled -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Philip Bembridgephilipbembri...@gmail.com wrote: Valve: feel free to block the program, but please PLEASE after the weapon drop probabilities are geared towards playing well.. similar to the crit calculation!! @ cc2iscool: is this program any different to sitting idle in a server? then sitting in an idle server is cheating... if so, how are you going to strip their achieves? You can't strip one without stripping the other ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problem being listed on the master...
happy birthday :D 2009/6/1 Ook ooksser...@zootal.com Well, there is the problem! Simply sober up and you will find that it's working fine :-) Things that can cause a server to not list with the master. GO. (No firewall, on a routed /28, server is playable in all ways, VAC activated, only symptom is that it's not visible to the master, even though the config files all check out against all our other servers) Thanks in advance for the community's help in this. I'm at a loss, though it *IS* my birthday and I'm a little incapacitated. -K ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Vac Ban for Idle program @ Source Op?
No, that's not my logic, that's some flawed bullshit you made up. By the way, the kid is making it up, he did cheat. http://www.gamerzplanet.net/forums/battlefield-heroes/320239-simple-bf-h-aimbot-3.html#post1982686 Same nick name, registered the same month that he got banned and he admit what he really did. http://steamcommunity.com/id/tordana http://steamcommunity.com/id/tordana08 On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 1:01 AM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: I really shouldn't be starting in on this since I really want this thread to die, but by your logic using a application to let me see through walls to improve my performance is no difference then using custom materials that let me see through wall for better performance. Donnie Newlove wrote: In the end the only difference between idling in your app or idling in TF2 is RAM, CPU and if not minimized, GPU used. It's no more cheating than running TF2 in DX8 mode to get better performance. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as it mimics idling in a server even though you're not idling in a server it could be considered a cheat. You're not actually running a game. You're using a program to emulate the game's function of connecting to a server. As far as I'm concerned that seems like cheating to me. It's like editing your punch times at work to say you were working when you really took the day off instead, and you're still getting paid. While you can't really get in trouble if you have nothing to do all day at work, you can get in trouble for editing your time sheet to say you were at work when you actually weren't. iGiggled -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Philip Bembridge philipbembri...@gmail.com wrote: Valve: feel free to block the program, but please PLEASE after the weapon drop probabilities are geared towards playing well.. similar to the crit calculation!! @ cc2iscool: is this program any different to sitting idle in a server? then sitting in an idle server is cheating... if so, how are you going to strip their achieves? You can't strip one without stripping the other ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
Lately, a lot of people have been talking about editing particles after someone made a HUD pack which changed the kritzkrieg beam, changed the length of explosions, made stickies grenades explosions more obvious, etc. I guess that's it: http://members.cox.net/seanswih/index.html The problem now is that a lot of people are starting to modify particles, and they are changing things like: - The length of the smoke when you disguise as a spy, they change it to stay forever - The stickies to be seen through walls - etc etc That doesn't seem to be new, I've found a post on facepunch from October 2008, look at the screenshots: http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=622425 sv_pure 1 (with the correct whitelist) and sv_pure 2 doesn't check the particles/ folder. AnAkIn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
Yes, they do. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, AnAkIn . anakin...@gmail.com wrote: Lately, a lot of people have been talking about editing particles after someone made a HUD pack which changed the kritzkrieg beam, changed the length of explosions, made stickies grenades explosions more obvious, etc. I guess that's it: http://members.cox.net/seanswih/index.html The problem now is that a lot of people are starting to modify particles, and they are changing things like: - The length of the smoke when you disguise as a spy, they change it to stay forever - The stickies to be seen through walls - etc etc That doesn't seem to be new, I've found a post on facepunch from October 2008, look at the screenshots: http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=622425 sv_pure 1 (with the correct whitelist) and sv_pure 2 doesn't check the particles/ folder. AnAkIn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
What about sv_consistency?? I forgot but isnt pure the same anyway? On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:19 AM, matan nov tanktun...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, they do. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, AnAkIn . anakin...@gmail.com wrote: Lately, a lot of people have been talking about editing particles after someone made a HUD pack which changed the kritzkrieg beam, changed the length of explosions, made stickies grenades explosions more obvious, etc. I guess that's it: http://members.cox.net/seanswih/index.html The problem now is that a lot of people are starting to modify particles, and they are changing things like: - The length of the smoke when you disguise as a spy, they change it to stay forever - The stickies to be seen through walls - etc etc That doesn't seem to be new, I've found a post on facepunch from October 2008, look at the screenshots: http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=622425 sv_pure 1 (with the correct whitelist) and sv_pure 2 doesn't check the particles/ folder. AnAkIn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
sv_consistency blocks a few things and is by default enabled. sv_pure should make everything default and is by default disabled. 2009/6/1 Justin mysteriousjus...@gmail.com What about sv_consistency?? I forgot but isnt pure the same anyway? On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:19 AM, matan nov tanktun...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, they do. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, AnAkIn . anakin...@gmail.com wrote: Lately, a lot of people have been talking about editing particles after someone made a HUD pack which changed the kritzkrieg beam, changed the length of explosions, made stickies grenades explosions more obvious, etc. I guess that's it: http://members.cox.net/seanswih/index.html The problem now is that a lot of people are starting to modify particles, and they are changing things like: - The length of the smoke when you disguise as a spy, they change it to stay forever - The stickies to be seen through walls - etc etc That doesn't seem to be new, I've found a post on facepunch from October 2008, look at the screenshots: http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=622425 sv_pure 1 (with the correct whitelist) and sv_pure 2 doesn't check the particles/ folder. AnAkIn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problem being listed on the master...
Just type heartbeat in the console, i think Thank you, Alec Sanger P: 248.941.3813 F: 313.286.8945 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:07:32 -0400 From: k...@weckstrom.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problem being listed on the master... No-one can. How does one send a heartbeat from the server? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Yaakov Smith Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:23 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Problem being listed on the master... Can anyone else see it? Sometimes you cannot but someone else can. Try send a heartbeat from the server. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problem being listed on the master...
heartbeat in console ___ Shane Arnold- clontar...@iinet.net.au For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the messenger was lost. For want of a messenger, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message the war was lost. Karl Weckstrom wrote: No-one can. How does one send a heartbeat from the server? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Yaakov Smith Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:23 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Problem being listed on the master... Can anyone else see it? Sometimes you cannot but someone else can. Try send a heartbeat from the server. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
so with sv_pure 1 will clients be able to use Custom skins? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Pure_Servers 2009/6/1 Clyde cide thedrunkenbraw...@gmail.com so with sv_pure 1 will clients be able to use Custom skins? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 exploit - Particles editing (not checked by sv_pure)
Thanks for that link, I hadnt seen it before. Ill be reading up on it for sure! Thanks again On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:30 AM, AnAkIn . anakin...@gmail.com wrote: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Pure_Servers 2009/6/1 Clyde cide thedrunkenbraw...@gmail.com so with sv_pure 1 will clients be able to use Custom skins? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Reserved Slots
I have a couple questions about the jamster version of the cbaseserver. I have it installed (to the best of my knowledge) but there is one thing that trips me up.. Primarily because I haven't done it before. Adding users: To add users to the system add them as usual with the res flag to your admin config or with high enough immunity if you use ONLY that part of the plugin. wat? Can someone post the path to the admin config and an example? Thanks! -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Flubber flub...@gmail.com wrote: The easiest way without a crash is the jamster version of the cbaseserver, wich allow to have slot reserve without wasting any. Jamster : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=93053 Original : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=72322 2009/5/30 CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com meh. Thanks for the help guys. -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:30 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote: Use the 33rd slot and hide it then. No need to kick people for no reason. 17vs16 shouldn't happen anyway. And so no one should try joining a server that says 33/32. On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Bingo. Thus is why we have -no- reserve slots on our servers. -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Donnie Newlove donnie.newl...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I would never come back to a server again if I were kicked and it does not matter if there was an admin that kicked me or a plugin just because an admin was trying to enter the server. To the player it makes no difference and is IMO very comparable to running fake clients. Imagine the following scenarios; 1. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. When he waited for 1 minute the server is empty. The player had a bad experience but can find another sever. 2. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. He joins a team and cap points, push carts, stab backs and have a good experience. Then after 15 minutes the screen suddenly blanks out and he sees a message saying You were kicked because you are really not important to us. The player now remembers this as a very bad experience and is probably more likly to just exit the game. On 5/30/09, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: Well.. Maybe it would help you guys if I told you what I was looking for. I don't want to hide slots. I would like all 32 slots accessible to both pubs and members. It might be nice to have members on an exception list so they don't get kicked. But if someone gets kicked I would like for it to say that they were kicked due to a reserved slot and not just some regular 'you've been kicked' message. I've tried a reserved slot implementation in the past, and they all seemed to be too complicated for me to understand config-wise. It wouldn't be difficult I guess if there was some example I could follow and edit for my needs. So, good documentation is a requirement. Anyway, if there is a way to do what I want to do using the simple built-in SourceMod stuff, that would be fine. If I wanted to say.. Have slots expire every 30 days on some type of billing cycle, what implementation would you guys suggest? Thanks for the help. ;-) -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Jeff Sugar jeffsu...@gmail.com wrote: Depends what you're going for. Personally, I absolutely refuse to have any regular or pubby kicked just because a clan member happens to want in. Not what I think builds a good community. So, I use the h-reserved slots plugin ( http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=61913page=1 ) on the SM forums along with sv_visiblemaxplayers so that we have a few hidden slots that only admins/members/special regulars can connect to. This solves that issue, and the slots re-open for joining as soon as anyone happens to leave. -atreus On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:44 AM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: It's that time again.. For me to go out and research and see if there has been an easier way of managing/running a reserved slot program posted anywhere. What say you, fellow admins? What are you using, and are there implementation instructions? -Matt ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Reserved Slots
It uses the standard souremod admin system. http://wiki.alliedmods.net/Adding_Admins_(SourceMod) On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:04 PM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple questions about the jamster version of the cbaseserver. I have it installed (to the best of my knowledge) but there is one thing that trips me up.. Primarily because I haven't done it before. Adding users: To add users to the system add them as usual with the res flag to your admin config or with high enough immunity if you use ONLY that part of the plugin. wat? Can someone post the path to the admin config and an example? Thanks! -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Flubber flub...@gmail.com wrote: The easiest way without a crash is the jamster version of the cbaseserver, wich allow to have slot reserve without wasting any. Jamster : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=93053 Original : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=72322 2009/5/30 CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com meh. Thanks for the help guys. -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:30 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote: Use the 33rd slot and hide it then. No need to kick people for no reason. 17vs16 shouldn't happen anyway. And so no one should try joining a server that says 33/32. On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Bingo. Thus is why we have -no- reserve slots on our servers. -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Donnie Newlove donnie.newl...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I would never come back to a server again if I were kicked and it does not matter if there was an admin that kicked me or a plugin just because an admin was trying to enter the server. To the player it makes no difference and is IMO very comparable to running fake clients. Imagine the following scenarios; 1. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. When he waited for 1 minute the server is empty. The player had a bad experience but can find another sever. 2. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. He joins a team and cap points, push carts, stab backs and have a good experience. Then after 15 minutes the screen suddenly blanks out and he sees a message saying You were kicked because you are really not important to us. The player now remembers this as a very bad experience and is probably more likly to just exit the game. On 5/30/09, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: Well.. Maybe it would help you guys if I told you what I was looking for. I don't want to hide slots. I would like all 32 slots accessible to both pubs and members. It might be nice to have members on an exception list so they don't get kicked. But if someone gets kicked I would like for it to say that they were kicked due to a reserved slot and not just some regular 'you've been kicked' message. I've tried a reserved slot implementation in the past, and they all seemed to be too complicated for me to understand config-wise. It wouldn't be difficult I guess if there was some example I could follow and edit for my needs. So, good documentation is a requirement. Anyway, if there is a way to do what I want to do using the simple built-in SourceMod stuff, that would be fine. If I wanted to say.. Have slots expire every 30 days on some type of billing cycle, what implementation would you guys suggest? Thanks for the help. ;-) -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Jeff Sugar jeffsu...@gmail.com wrote: Depends what you're going for. Personally, I absolutely refuse to have any regular or pubby kicked just because a clan member happens to want in. Not what I think builds a good community. So, I use the h-reserved slots plugin ( http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=61913page=1) on the SM forums along with sv_visiblemaxplayers so that we have a few hidden slots that only admins/members/special regulars can connect to. This solves that issue, and the slots re-open for joining as soon as anyone happens to leave. -atreus On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:44 AM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: It's that time again.. For me to go out and research and see if there has been an easier way of managing/running a reserved slot program posted anywhere. What say
Re: [hlds] Reserved Slots
Excellent. That's what I was missing. Thanks sooo much. +1 Internets to you, sir. Also, Win. -Matt On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Adam Smith absmi...@gmail.com wrote: It uses the standard souremod admin system. http://wiki.alliedmods.net/Adding_Admins_(SourceMod)http://wiki.alliedmods.net/Adding_Admins_%28SourceMod%29 On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:04 PM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple questions about the jamster version of the cbaseserver. I have it installed (to the best of my knowledge) but there is one thing that trips me up.. Primarily because I haven't done it before. Adding users: To add users to the system add them as usual with the res flag to your admin config or with high enough immunity if you use ONLY that part of the plugin. wat? Can someone post the path to the admin config and an example? Thanks! -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Flubber flub...@gmail.com wrote: The easiest way without a crash is the jamster version of the cbaseserver, wich allow to have slot reserve without wasting any. Jamster : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=93053 Original : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=72322 2009/5/30 CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com meh. Thanks for the help guys. -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:30 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote: Use the 33rd slot and hide it then. No need to kick people for no reason. 17vs16 shouldn't happen anyway. And so no one should try joining a server that says 33/32. On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Bingo. Thus is why we have -no- reserve slots on our servers. -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Donnie Newlove donnie.newl...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I would never come back to a server again if I were kicked and it does not matter if there was an admin that kicked me or a plugin just because an admin was trying to enter the server. To the player it makes no difference and is IMO very comparable to running fake clients. Imagine the following scenarios; 1. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. When he waited for 1 minute the server is empty. The player had a bad experience but can find another sever. 2. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. He joins a team and cap points, push carts, stab backs and have a good experience. Then after 15 minutes the screen suddenly blanks out and he sees a message saying You were kicked because you are really not important to us. The player now remembers this as a very bad experience and is probably more likly to just exit the game. On 5/30/09, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: Well.. Maybe it would help you guys if I told you what I was looking for. I don't want to hide slots. I would like all 32 slots accessible to both pubs and members. It might be nice to have members on an exception list so they don't get kicked. But if someone gets kicked I would like for it to say that they were kicked due to a reserved slot and not just some regular 'you've been kicked' message. I've tried a reserved slot implementation in the past, and they all seemed to be too complicated for me to understand config-wise. It wouldn't be difficult I guess if there was some example I could follow and edit for my needs. So, good documentation is a requirement. Anyway, if there is a way to do what I want to do using the simple built-in SourceMod stuff, that would be fine. If I wanted to say.. Have slots expire every 30 days on some type of billing cycle, what implementation would you guys suggest? Thanks for the help. ;-) -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Jeff Sugar jeffsu...@gmail.com wrote: Depends what you're going for. Personally, I absolutely refuse to have any regular or pubby kicked just because a clan member happens to want in. Not what I think builds a good community. So, I use the h-reserved slots plugin ( http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=61913page=1) on the SM forums along with sv_visiblemaxplayers so that we have a few hidden slots that only admins/members/special regulars can connect to. This solves that issue, and the slots re-open
Re: [hlds] Vac Ban for Idle program @ Source Op?
Honeypot? Neil Voutt - Administrator http://www.neilvoutt.com http://www.ipoststupidshit.com On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:33 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote: Anyone want to guess my opinion on the matter? On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:07 +0800, Shane Arnold wrote: This. I imagine the purpose of the VAC system is to stop cheats that give an unfair advantage. Idling in a server, be it by minimised official client or third-party client is no different. It's still idling. Not to mention the fact that even if VALVe wanted to design the system to block/ban this particular client, they couldn't, as the server it connects to is not VAC secure (probably for exactly that reason, they aren't pretending to be a legitimate way to play the game). People are creating a storm in a teacup about this, it's a very small percentage of a very large player base that use it. And even then this whole argument is a moot point, as achievements are now grindable again to gain unlocks (YAY!). /thread ___ Shane Arnold - clontar...@iinet.net.au For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the messenger was lost. For want of a messenger, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message the war was lost. tgnwells wrote: It's not really any different than running TF2 in an idling server and minimizing the window, I wouldn't say it's very honest but I wouldn't really classify it as a cheat. And VACs main purpose is protecting the game process, I don't think you could get VAC banned from just manipulating the Steam API to perform simple tricks like this unless you do it from within the game, while connected to a VAC secured server. Although it seems possible if you were to try to connect to a legitimate (VAC enabled) server using what would appear to be a phony client that VAC might flag your account, although I think it'd most likely just refuse the connection. On 5/31/2009 4:01 PM, SakeFox wrote: I really shouldn't be starting in on this since I really want this thread to die, but by your logic using a application to let me see through walls to improve my performance is no difference then using custom materials that let me see through wall for better performance. Donnie Newlove wrote: In the end the only difference between idling in your app or idling in TF2 is RAM, CPU and if not minimized, GPU used. It's no more cheating than running TF2 in DX8 mode to get better performance. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Cc2iscooLcc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as it mimics idling in a server even though you're not idling in a server it could be considered a cheat. You're not actually running a game. You're using a program to emulate the game's function of connecting to a server. As far as I'm concerned that seems like cheating to me. It's like editing your punch times at work to say you were working when you really took the day off instead, and you're still getting paid. While you can't really get in trouble if you have nothing to do all day at work, you can get in trouble for editing your time sheet to say you were at work when you actually weren't. iGiggled -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Philip Bembridge philipbembri...@gmail.com wrote: Valve: feel free to block the program, but please PLEASE after the weapon drop probabilities are geared towards playing well.. similar to the crit calculation!! @ cc2iscool: is this program any different to sitting idle in a server? then sitting in an idle server is cheating... if so, how are you going to strip their achieves? You can't strip one without stripping the other ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
Re: [hlds] Reserved Slots
The immunity thing is for if you have members in your database that don't have a reserved slot, but do have an immunity level. This grants them somewhat of a reserved slot, but rather they are less likely to be kicked to free a slot. I personally don't have my system setup like that, either you have a reserved slot or you don't. If you do it that way then it's very simple to use. I've been using cbaseserver for a while and Jamster's plugin since he wrote it and I've never had a problem. As pred said, cbasewin indeed. To everyone who bitches and whines about being kicked because of a reserved slot, you need to get real. If you're a random dude in a random server then yeah, odds are you are less important than a guy who has played there for 2 years and is a member of THEIR community. I'm actually pretty surprised people are so offended by this concept. On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 14:04 -0500, CLAN RCR wrote: I have a couple questions about the jamster version of the cbaseserver. I have it installed (to the best of my knowledge) but there is one thing that trips me up.. Primarily because I haven't done it before. Adding users: To add users to the system add them as usual with the res flag to your admin config or with high enough immunity if you use ONLY that part of the plugin. wat? Can someone post the path to the admin config and an example? Thanks! -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Flubber flub...@gmail.com wrote: The easiest way without a crash is the jamster version of the cbaseserver, wich allow to have slot reserve without wasting any. Jamster : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=93053 Original : http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=72322 2009/5/30 CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com meh. Thanks for the help guys. -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:30 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote: Use the 33rd slot and hide it then. No need to kick people for no reason. 17vs16 shouldn't happen anyway. And so no one should try joining a server that says 33/32. On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Bingo. Thus is why we have -no- reserve slots on our servers. -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Donnie Newlove donnie.newl...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I would never come back to a server again if I were kicked and it does not matter if there was an admin that kicked me or a plugin just because an admin was trying to enter the server. To the player it makes no difference and is IMO very comparable to running fake clients. Imagine the following scenarios; 1. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. When he waited for 1 minute the server is empty. The player had a bad experience but can find another sever. 2. The player joins a server with 23/24 players. He joins a team and cap points, push carts, stab backs and have a good experience. Then after 15 minutes the screen suddenly blanks out and he sees a message saying You were kicked because you are really not important to us. The player now remembers this as a very bad experience and is probably more likly to just exit the game. On 5/30/09, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote: Well.. Maybe it would help you guys if I told you what I was looking for. I don't want to hide slots. I would like all 32 slots accessible to both pubs and members. It might be nice to have members on an exception list so they don't get kicked. But if someone gets kicked I would like for it to say that they were kicked due to a reserved slot and not just some regular 'you've been kicked' message. I've tried a reserved slot implementation in the past, and they all seemed to be too complicated for me to understand config-wise. It wouldn't be difficult I guess if there was some example I could follow and edit for my needs. So, good documentation is a requirement. Anyway, if there is a way to do what I want to do using the simple built-in SourceMod stuff, that would be fine. If I wanted to say.. Have slots expire every 30 days on some type of billing cycle, what implementation would you guys suggest? Thanks for the help. ;-) -Matt On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Jeff Sugar jeffsu...@gmail.com wrote: Depends what you're going for. Personally, I absolutely refuse to have any regular or pubby kicked just because a clan member happens to want in. Not what I think builds a good community. So, I use the
Re: [hlds] Vac Ban for Idle program @ Source Op?
What are you talking about? I'm refering to the VAC for people who cheat the system. On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:35 -0400, Neil Voutt wrote: Honeypot? Neil Voutt - Administrator http://www.neilvoutt.com http://www.ipoststupidshit.com On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:33 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote: Anyone want to guess my opinion on the matter? On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:07 +0800, Shane Arnold wrote: This. I imagine the purpose of the VAC system is to stop cheats that give an unfair advantage. Idling in a server, be it by minimised official client or third-party client is no different. It's still idling. Not to mention the fact that even if VALVe wanted to design the system to block/ban this particular client, they couldn't, as the server it connects to is not VAC secure (probably for exactly that reason, they aren't pretending to be a legitimate way to play the game). People are creating a storm in a teacup about this, it's a very small percentage of a very large player base that use it. And even then this whole argument is a moot point, as achievements are now grindable again to gain unlocks (YAY!). /thread ___ Shane Arnold - clontar...@iinet.net.au For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the messenger was lost. For want of a messenger, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message the war was lost. tgnwells wrote: It's not really any different than running TF2 in an idling server and minimizing the window, I wouldn't say it's very honest but I wouldn't really classify it as a cheat. And VACs main purpose is protecting the game process, I don't think you could get VAC banned from just manipulating the Steam API to perform simple tricks like this unless you do it from within the game, while connected to a VAC secured server. Although it seems possible if you were to try to connect to a legitimate (VAC enabled) server using what would appear to be a phony client that VAC might flag your account, although I think it'd most likely just refuse the connection. On 5/31/2009 4:01 PM, SakeFox wrote: I really shouldn't be starting in on this since I really want this thread to die, but by your logic using a application to let me see through walls to improve my performance is no difference then using custom materials that let me see through wall for better performance. Donnie Newlove wrote: In the end the only difference between idling in your app or idling in TF2 is RAM, CPU and if not minimized, GPU used. It's no more cheating than running TF2 in DX8 mode to get better performance. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Cc2iscooLcc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as it mimics idling in a server even though you're not idling in a server it could be considered a cheat. You're not actually running a game. You're using a program to emulate the game's function of connecting to a server. As far as I'm concerned that seems like cheating to me. It's like editing your punch times at work to say you were working when you really took the day off instead, and you're still getting paid. While you can't really get in trouble if you have nothing to do all day at work, you can get in trouble for editing your time sheet to say you were at work when you actually weren't. iGiggled -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Philip Bembridge philipbembri...@gmail.com wrote: Valve: feel free to block the program, but please PLEASE after the weapon drop probabilities are geared towards playing well.. similar to the crit calculation!! @ cc2iscool: is this program any different to sitting idle in a server? then sitting in an idle server is cheating... if so, how are you going to strip their achieves? You can't strip one without stripping the other ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit
Re: [hlds] Vac Ban for Idle program @ Source Op?
Lollypop? On 6/1/09, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote: What are you talking about? I'm refering to the VAC for people who cheat the system. On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:35 -0400, Neil Voutt wrote: Honeypot? Neil Voutt - Administrator http://www.neilvoutt.com http://www.ipoststupidshit.com On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:33 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote: Anyone want to guess my opinion on the matter? On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:07 +0800, Shane Arnold wrote: This. I imagine the purpose of the VAC system is to stop cheats that give an unfair advantage. Idling in a server, be it by minimised official client or third-party client is no different. It's still idling. Not to mention the fact that even if VALVe wanted to design the system to block/ban this particular client, they couldn't, as the server it connects to is not VAC secure (probably for exactly that reason, they aren't pretending to be a legitimate way to play the game). People are creating a storm in a teacup about this, it's a very small percentage of a very large player base that use it. And even then this whole argument is a moot point, as achievements are now grindable again to gain unlocks (YAY!). /thread ___ Shane Arnold - clontar...@iinet.net.au For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the messenger was lost. For want of a messenger, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message the war was lost. tgnwells wrote: It's not really any different than running TF2 in an idling server and minimizing the window, I wouldn't say it's very honest but I wouldn't really classify it as a cheat. And VACs main purpose is protecting the game process, I don't think you could get VAC banned from just manipulating the Steam API to perform simple tricks like this unless you do it from within the game, while connected to a VAC secured server. Although it seems possible if you were to try to connect to a legitimate (VAC enabled) server using what would appear to be a phony client that VAC might flag your account, although I think it'd most likely just refuse the connection. On 5/31/2009 4:01 PM, SakeFox wrote: I really shouldn't be starting in on this since I really want this thread to die, but by your logic using a application to let me see through walls to improve my performance is no difference then using custom materials that let me see through wall for better performance. Donnie Newlove wrote: In the end the only difference between idling in your app or idling in TF2 is RAM, CPU and if not minimized, GPU used. It's no more cheating than running TF2 in DX8 mode to get better performance. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Cc2iscooLcc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as it mimics idling in a server even though you're not idling in a server it could be considered a cheat. You're not actually running a game. You're using a program to emulate the game's function of connecting to a server. As far as I'm concerned that seems like cheating to me. It's like editing your punch times at work to say you were working when you really took the day off instead, and you're still getting paid. While you can't really get in trouble if you have nothing to do all day at work, you can get in trouble for editing your time sheet to say you were at work when you actually weren't. iGiggled -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Philip Bembridge philipbembri...@gmail.com wrote: Valve: feel free to block the program, but please PLEASE after the weapon drop probabilities are geared towards playing well.. similar to the crit calculation!! @ cc2iscool: is this program any different to sitting idle in a server? then sitting in an idle server is cheating... if so, how are you going to strip their achieves? You can't strip one without stripping the other ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
Re: [hlds] Valve doesn't delist servers according to support...
You clearly weren't around a few months ago when this was the talk of the town in these parts. Pretty much, every likely and unlikely scenario was explored, including unpopular normal servers and servers with less traffic. Only servers with extremely high player connections and extremely high player-disconnects-with-minimal-playtimes will receive the lowest of the low scores. As was said hundreds of time, the delist system is meant to catch the worst of the worst. There is no way to view your server ranking since that would just create a new level of epeen comparing. You don't need to worry about your ranking unless you are using questionable practices like redirect servers and/or fake clients. I'm also pretty sure that Steam Support doesn't read this list so they probably aren't aware of the delisting issue, so I'm not surprised they don't know about this stuff. Oh and by the way, it's not automatic. Servers are manually delisted. On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 12:11 +, shorec...@comcast.net wrote: So a new server that has people join, then decide they don't like the configuration can unfairly get delisted... oops.. forgot, Valve doesn't delist. - Original Message - From: Donnie Newlove donnie.newl...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:45:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve doesn't delist servers according to support... You do not get delisted for having less traffic, you get delisted for having much traffic and having most players immediately leave. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Vac Ban for Idle program @ Source Op?
Maybe someone could make a sourcemod plugin that bans people for standing still. They could have been idling. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Lollypop? On 6/1/09, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote: What are you talking about? I'm refering to the VAC for people who cheat the system. On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:35 -0400, Neil Voutt wrote: Honeypot? Neil Voutt - Administrator http://www.neilvoutt.com http://www.ipoststupidshit.com On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:33 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote: Anyone want to guess my opinion on the matter? On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:07 +0800, Shane Arnold wrote: This. I imagine the purpose of the VAC system is to stop cheats that give an unfair advantage. Idling in a server, be it by minimised official client or third-party client is no different. It's still idling. Not to mention the fact that even if VALVe wanted to design the system to block/ban this particular client, they couldn't, as the server it connects to is not VAC secure (probably for exactly that reason, they aren't pretending to be a legitimate way to play the game). People are creating a storm in a teacup about this, it's a very small percentage of a very large player base that use it. And even then this whole argument is a moot point, as achievements are now grindable again to gain unlocks (YAY!). /thread ___ Shane Arnold - clontar...@iinet.net.au For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the messenger was lost. For want of a messenger, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message the war was lost. tgnwells wrote: It's not really any different than running TF2 in an idling server and minimizing the window, I wouldn't say it's very honest but I wouldn't really classify it as a cheat. And VACs main purpose is protecting the game process, I don't think you could get VAC banned from just manipulating the Steam API to perform simple tricks like this unless you do it from within the game, while connected to a VAC secured server. Although it seems possible if you were to try to connect to a legitimate (VAC enabled) server using what would appear to be a phony client that VAC might flag your account, although I think it'd most likely just refuse the connection. On 5/31/2009 4:01 PM, SakeFox wrote: I really shouldn't be starting in on this since I really want this thread to die, but by your logic using a application to let me see through walls to improve my performance is no difference then using custom materials that let me see through wall for better performance. Donnie Newlove wrote: In the end the only difference between idling in your app or idling in TF2 is RAM, CPU and if not minimized, GPU used. It's no more cheating than running TF2 in DX8 mode to get better performance. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Cc2iscooLcc2isc...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as it mimics idling in a server even though you're not idling in a server it could be considered a cheat. You're not actually running a game. You're using a program to emulate the game's function of connecting to a server. As far as I'm concerned that seems like cheating to me. It's like editing your punch times at work to say you were working when you really took the day off instead, and you're still getting paid. While you can't really get in trouble if you have nothing to do all day at work, you can get in trouble for editing your time sheet to say you were at work when you actually weren't. iGiggled -- Cc2iscooL Head Admin/Owner http://www.cc2iscool.com On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Philip Bembridge philipbembri...@gmail.com wrote: Valve: feel free to block the program, but please PLEASE after the weapon drop probabilities are geared towards playing well.. similar to the crit calculation!! @ cc2iscool: is this program any different to sitting idle in a server? then sitting in an idle server is cheating... if so, how are you going to strip their achieves? You can't strip one without stripping the other ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] *off topic* but urgent
there is a new steam account phishing site i just thought this would be the place to tell alot of people who can spread the word the web site url is [do not not log in with this www.steampowered.prv.co.il g it is sent in mesages like this danino: www.steampowered.prv.co.il STEAM LOTTERY sign in to get your ticket, games being raffled : CS,CS GTA:IV TF2 and more just thought you ought to know teh_spartan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] *off topic* but urgent
Hi Teh_Spartan, Thank you for letting the list know about the site. I reported the site to Firefox web forgery, to hopefully prevent easily fooled individuals. Kind regards Matthew Bancroft hldsl...@apeximages.org 2009/6/2 admin ad...@firestormpcs.net there is a new steam account phishing site i just thought this would be the place to tell alot of people who can spread the word the web site url is [do not not log in with this www.steampowered.prv.co.il g it is sent in mesages like this danino: www.steampowered.prv.co.il STEAM LOTTERY sign in to get your ticket, games being raffled : CS,CS GTA:IV TF2 and more just thought you ought to know teh_spartan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] *off topic* but urgent
OMG a STEAM lottery, where do I sign up?!?!?!?!??! admin wrote: there is a new steam account phishing site i just thought this would be the place to tell alot of people who can spread the word the web site url is [do not not log in with this www.steampowered.prv.co.il g it is sent in mesages like this danino: www.steampowered.prv.co.il STEAM LOTTERY sign in to get your ticket, games being raffled : CS,CS GTA:IV TF2 and more just thought you ought to know teh_spartan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
