Re: [hlds] TF2 Server on Windows Server 2008

[Scott Highland]

Don't think this is true actually, pretty sure I see any internet servers I
have hosting on my box/network whenever I pass through the LAN tab.

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Cc2iscooL  wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that it won't show up in the lan
> browser unless sv_lan 1 is set. Only issue is then Internet clients cannot
> connect.
> On May 25, 2012 9:31 PM, "Mike Bohde"  wrote:
>
>> I've added a startup map and removed the -ip command and now it works
>> in LAN. It still isn't in view on the LAN tab. I can connect directly
>> using the
>> debug command menu. It is not accessible outside the local network.
>> I've checked all my firewall settings and the router. Though my ISP
>> denies blocking
>> the server state that seems the be the only other variable.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 11:50 AM, T Marler  wrote:
>> > Hi Mike,
>> >
>> > 1) I recommend you do a -ip xx.xx.xx.xx in your init as rcon typically
>> > doesn't work properly unless you bind it to an ip, be it a public or
>> private
>> > ip
>> >
>> > 2) Have you tried actually manually connecting via the command line? If
>> you
>> > can connect, then it may be a broadcast issue of the server, not that it
>> > isn't accepting connections.
>> >
>> >
>> > BloodyIron
>> >
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: Mike Bohde 
>> > Date: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:34 am
>> > Subject: [hlds] TF2 Server on Windows Server 2008
>> > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
>> >
>> >> I'm having issues getting my server seen from my LAN, I'll worry about
>> >> internet accessibility later. Checked back into the archives
>> >> back to
>> >> 2010 and didn't see anything about this.
>> >>
>> >> I have installed the server with these the instructions found here.
>> >> http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/5315
>> >> One minor difference in my installation.
>> >> Directory:  C:\Program Files (x86)\Valve\HLServer\tf2\
>> >>
>> >> I've added 3 incoming and outgoing firewall rules for the game.
>> >> Rule 1  TCP  27014-27050 for local and remote
>> >> Rule 2  UDP  27000-27030 for local and remote
>> >> Rule 3  UDP  3478-4380 for local and remote
>> >>
>> >> I use a batch file to start the server:
>> >> srcds.exe -console -game tf -hostport 27015 +maxplayers 24
>> >>
>> >> The ports have also been forwarded on my router as well (D-Link
>> >> DIR-655)
>> >> Host machine: Windows 2008 Server R2
>> >> IP: 192.168.0.10
>> >>
>> >> Client machine: Windows 7
>> >> IP: 192.168.0.3
>> >>
>> >> When I attempt to enter the server into the favorite on the game
>> >> client and search for games it responds with "Server is not
>> >> Responding". The address entered in the search is 192.168.0.10:27015.
>> >>
>> >> Any help getting this server to be accessible would be appreciated.
>> >>
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Re: [hlds] [TF2] Bizarre Physics Behavior

[Scott Highland]

I can definitely see a difference.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:23:28 PM, Grant McFerrin wrote:
I'm noticed similar reactions with rockets, demoman charges, and 
pipebombs/stickybombs. It's rather annoying, glad to know I'm not the 
only one noticing strange behavior.


On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:02 PM, brandon johnson > wrote:


Over the past month I've noticed some bizarre physics behavior on
my server, namely rocket explosions seem to be launching people
further than expected. Here's a video detailing exactly what i
mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7J22JCIBPA as you can see
the scout is launched far over the shed on harvest.

The only mod on the server is sourcemod, and we've seen the
problem with a default server.cfg file. All of the relevant
variables I've found still seem to be set to their default. After
restarting the server, everything seems normal but as maps change
it seems to build up to excessive levels.

Is this an issue anyone has experienced or knows how to resolve?

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Re: [hlds] Cheat Engine & Report

[Scott Highland]

Vac is an old system that never really worked at preventing cheats. 
I've never thought of delayed bans as a good idea, I can see the logic 
behind it, but it's just so outweighed by the fact that it basically 
lets people cheat, get caught, and continue to cheat for quite some 
time after being caught. Sometimes I don't think it even matters, Valve 
just ends up making more money off cheaters than regular players, I 
don't see how they'd care either.


On Sunday, December 25, 2011 7:33:16 AM, AnAkIn . wrote:
F2P or not, the players are not even getting VAC banned for known 
public cheats, so it doesn't really matter.


2011/12/25 Mart-Jan Reeuwijk >


I'd agree that I'm a "nutter", but not on this case. the female in
question was the spouse of one of the admins and we review all
our bans anyways.


*From:* hasser css mailto:hasserva...@gmail.com>>

*To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>>
*Sent:* Saturday, 24 December 2011, 23:47

*Subject:* Re: [hlds] Cheat Engine & Report

24/12/2011 Mart-Jan Reeuwijk sagt:
> Another approach can be to give those female players
"mini"admin rights, so
> they can ban someone for a short time. Had to deal with
about the same kind
> of stuff, where 1 player made it bad by cajoling up the
others, this lasted
> some time, and went out of hand. We banned the guy, but the
rest kept at it.
> We decided to give her admin,  and  then she could ban any
herself, which
> ended the situation fast, because then as soon as it
happened, she banned
> them.

Giving special rights to people on your server just because
they are a
female and can't ignore people herself? You're a bloody
nutter! Please
post your server name so I may add it to my blacklist and
never have
the misfortune of joining it.

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--
Best regards,
AnAkIn



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Re: [hlds] Halloween 2011

[Scott Highland]

Some clarification would still help.

On Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:59:43 AM, msleeper wrote:

There's nothing to be confused about. Stop trying to read between the lines.

In order to participate in the event, you have to REGISTER your
servers. You don't have to make them quickplay valid. You JUST have to
register them.

How is there 20 replies to this thread.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 2:46 AM, Jason  wrote:

Ok, I am confused.  The quickplay (and "registration" of servers) is for
servers without mods, etc.  Which is why we only have one of our five
servers in the "quickplay" registration.  Yet, the OTHER servers is where we
get most of our traffic.  Your "quickplay registration" rules say something
along the lines of either getting blacklisted or ignored if you have modded
servers.
So people who have "fun" modded servers are simply shit out of luck?  If
this is not the case, then please, explain and give DETAILS of what we will
need to do.  I don't mind registering my servers for the halloween event
stuff, my community would love itbut if I get left out because we
have mods, I think that's a bit crappy of valve.
Let us know exactly what we need to do to participate please...thank you
in advance.
Jason

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Rob Liu  wrote:


Why even bother trying to "police" it.  It's a holiday special events.
People who's going to cheat/abuse it is still going get what they want in
the end.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Violent Crimes
  wrote:


Would setting up a 10 person private server for you and your friends to
get the gifts and not have to deal with other people be abusing the system?


From: Jon Lippincott
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
mailing list
Cc: TF Team
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 10:32 PM
Subject: [hlds] Halloween 2011

We’re going to be launching some new Halloween content in the near future
and wanted to give you all a quick heads-up.  There will be random gift
drops, but this year we are requiring that participants register their
servers.  If you choose not to register, you can still run the Halloween
maps, but no gifts will drop on your server.  By registering, your server
will also be included in matchmaking, which will potentially drive
traffic to you.  Note that cheating or otherwise abusing the gift drop
system will result in losing your registration, access to gift drops and
other potential value-adds in the future.

You still have plenty of time, as this change won’t be going live until
next week.  Registration is quick and simple, and is outlined here.

-Jon
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Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Reminder: your posts are public and permanent

[Scott Highland]

Waste of time for a problem that isn't really that big of a problem at all.

On 10/20/2011 11:00 AM, EHG wrote:
It wouldn't necessarily have to be round-the-clock moderation. You 
could enforce that mailing list subscriptions be linked to your steam 
ID and simply ban repeat problem users after the fact.


On 10/20/2011 1:56 PM, gamead...@127001.org wrote:
Actually, archiving is the one reason I _prefer_ this list - I have a 
copy
of everything ever posted, I don't have to worry about a thread 
derailment

causing useful info to be possibly deleted.  That being said, moderation
would be easier on a forum, because you can do it after the fact - a
moderated email list requires pre-approval of every post, which 
basically

means you need round-the-clock mods available.  Not practical imo


-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-
boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName!
Sent: 20 October 2011 18:47
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Cc: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Reminder: your posts are public and
permanent

If we all remember, the lists were going to be moved to the forums for
archiving, readability and for easy moderation. This wasn't done
because we all prefer the mailing list. However, we should find a
balance with more moderation. You don't even have to run a server to be
on this list.

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Chad Hedstrom
wrote:


That's not a bad idea. In the last six months this went from a high
quality, low traffic list to something similar in appearance to a
tier-2 steam customer service support thread. While I definitely do
appreciate this under-the-radar outreach to the community of server
administrators, perhaps it is time to think about expanding to a
moderated style mailing list.

Thanks again for all your (Valve employees!) hard work and prompt
replies to questions posed in this thread.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:34 PM, DontWannaName!

  wrote:

Maybe it's time to appoint a volunteer moderator so there is less

garbage on the list and more helpful information. It would help all of
us! :)

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Fletcher Dunn

  wrote:

This post is a reminder to everybody that this email distribution

list has a standard language that everybody should use.  I'm not
talking about using Portuguese or English.  I'm talking about being
nice instead of being a jerk.



New people come and go all the time.  Sometimes they repeat

questions that have already been answered before they subscribed.
Sometimes they don't know what is on topic or off topic.  There's a way
to let them know politely if their question is off topic, or should be
directed elsewhere.  If is too difficult for you to use kind words,
then of course there's also the option of just ignoring it.



Your posts (like most things on the Internet) are both public and

permanent.  By bearing this in mind, some people could save themselves
embarrassment and regret by refraining from posting childishly.  Even
better would be to act kindly and help the person get to the correct
place where they can find the answer they are seeking.



Please just be kind and helpful.

Try to relax.



Your humble servant,

- Fletch

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Re: [hlds] Pending RO2 Update Today

[Scott Highland]

Will we get hats?

On 10/6/2011 2:39 PM, John Gibson wrote:

Everyone,

We're planning on releasing an update for RO2 today. We're in the 
final phases of testing the update, and if things go well it could be 
out within the next couple of hours.


Regards,

John


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Re: [hlds] Required Final RO2 Beta Server Update Released

[Scott Highland]

Can't wait to play :D

On 9/12/2011 5:06 PM, John Gibson wrote:
The final update to the RO2 beta server has been released. This update 
includes many changes, fixes, and improvements , but we're too busy 
getting ready for the game to ship tommorow to list them all :) See 
you all on the battlefield tomorrow!


John


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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch Updates Released

[Scott Highland]

Cow mangler still needs a nerf, I don't get why a soldier would be able 
to ignite people and deal fire damage on his own...
This is a gameplay centric observation, completely ignoring the fact 
that this Dr. Grordbort's pack is the stupidest and most damaging cross 
promotion the TF team has pulled. Do they not care at all about game 
design anymore? Why not discontinue the product entirely rather than 
keep hashing out updates that totally ruin the look and feel of the 
game. I mean the model doesn't look even remotely like something that 
would exist in the TF environment, it's a glaringly obvious problem for 
that reason alone. Are the standards for community content just going to 
get lower and lower as time goes on?


On 7/22/2011 5:40 PM, Jason Ruymen wrote:

Options updates to Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: 
Source and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch are now available.  The specific changes 
include:

Shared Changes (CS:S, DoD:S, TF2, HL2:DM)
- Fixed a bug in SourceTV that would sometimes corrupt demo data.

Team Fortress 2
- Cow Mangler changes:
- Fixed the charged shot sometimes doing more damage than intended.
- Fixed a bug that caused the projectiles to stay in the world after a team 
change.
- Slowed reload rate by 5%.

Jason


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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Scott Highland]

Now, was that so hard? :3

On 5/18/2011 4:14 PM, Jason Ruymen wrote:

- Updated the materials used on models to ignore the $ignorez flag, to make it 
harder to create wallhacks on sv_pure 0 servers



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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available

[Scott Highland]

CP maps don't have carts you silly

On 2/14/2011 3:02 PM, Jason Ruymen wrote:

Required updates for Team Fortress 2 are now available.  The specific changes 
include:

Source Engine Changes (CS:S, DoD:S, TF2, HL2:DM)
- Updated the version check when connecting to a server to indicated whether 
the server's version of the game is older or newer than the client's version 
when they're different.

Team Fortress 2
- Made Bill's Hat always tradable.
- Fixed a client crash caused by malformed custom client spray.
- Added a Red team skin to the Fists of Steel.
- Fixed melee attacks not destroying remote detonation pipes.
- Added the Rimmed Raincatcher to the list of Unusual hats.
- Fixed the Stickybomb Launcher viewmodel sleeves using the wrong team colors 
for team Blue.
- Fixed players getting set bonuses applied on tournament servers when the 
server is restricting the player's weapons using the item_whitelist.
- Updated CP_Thundermountain
- Updated the final stage to have the train begin receding after 15 
seconds.
- Reduced the cart speed on the final two ramps in the final stage to 
1/2 normal speed.

Jason



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Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source Update Available

[Scott Highland]

Anyone know what it used to be?



On 8/30/2010 2:38 PM, Jason Ruymen wrote:

- Changed walk speed to be 0.52x of run speed ( Counter-Strike 1.6 )


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Re: [hlds] Party Mode is ON when tf_birthday=0

[Scott Highland]

jesus was a p cool guy

Saul Rennison wrote:

Jesus Christ you're a merry fellow.

On Friday, August 20, 2010, M33CROB  wrote:
  

Hello Valve,

  Would you please consider allowing admins to disable this feature? It's
fun and all for you to do this once a year, but I for one cannot stand party
mode and would rather take my servers offline than to subject my player base
this.


On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Harry Strongburg wrote:



] rcon tf_birthday
 "tf_birthday" = "0"
 game notify replicated

Ok, it's set at 0, the default. I have no party-mode plugins installed.
So why are all the gibs on my server being turned into balloons and
unicycles?! No one is wearing a birthday-hat like the wiki page says
they should be.

Client-side, I have:
] tf_birthday
"tf_birthday" = "0"
 game notify replicated

So why is everyone turning into balloons and it's playing stupid party
noises? It's happening to me on every server, even servers without any
mods installed.

I am cross-posting this to both hlds and hlds_linux lists (even though I
know you dislike this), as it happens on both Linux and Windows servers.

If anyone else has this problem or knows a fix, please reply. Thanks.

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Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source Update Available

[Scott Highland]

Downloading the update on steam at a whopping 20kb/s average... Maybe 
you shouldve put the update on more than just one content server? :/

Mark P wrote:
> 2010/6/23 Jake Eisenman 
>
>   
>> oooh Shiny.
>> hope nothing breaks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Jason Ruymen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> A required update for Counter-Strike: Source has been updated.
>>> Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the updates.  The major changes
>>> include:
>>>
>>> UI:
>>> - Added the following cvars to allow players to customize their
>>> scoreboards.
>>> - cl_scoreboard_ct_color_red
>>> - cl_scoreboard_ct_color_green
>>> - cl_scoreboard_ct_color_blue
>>> - cl_scoreboard_t_color_red
>>> - cl_scoreboard_t_color_green
>>> - cl_scoreboard_t_color_blue
>>> - cl_scoreboard_dead_color_red
>>> - cl_scoreboard_dead_color_green
>>> - cl_scoreboard_dead_color_blue
>>> - Changed the screen that appears when the message of the day fails
>>> to load to display proper error text.
>>> - Made the CT silhouette for the auto-select option in the Choose a
>>> Class screen smaller and corrected its aspect ratio.
>>> - Addressed a problem that occasionally caused characters to be
>>> colored incorrectly on the Change a Class screen.
>>>
>>> Gameplay:
>>> - Made ladders easier to climb. Added cvars sv_ladder_dampen and
>>> sv_ladder_angle.
>>> - Fixed issue that awarded three points when the bomb explodes after
>>> the round ends by elimination criteria instead.
>>> - Fixed issue in which you weren't given credit for grenade damage
>>> if you fired a weapon at someone then hit them with a grenade (in
>>> that order). Also fixed problem in which grenading a player and then
>>> killing them with another weapon showed as '*** in 1' on console.
>>> - There's now a priority order for displaying win conditions when
>>> multiple win conditions are set.
>>> - If timelimit exists and is not 0, then show timelimit.
>>> - If timelimit does not exist, show maxrounds if not 0.
>>> - If both timelimit and maxrounds are 0, show winlimit.
>>> - If timelimit, maxrounds, and winlimit are all 0, show nothing.
>>> - Added a cvar to ignore win conditions:
>>> mp_ignore_round_win_conditions.
>>>
>>> General:
>>> - Disallowed the use of arbitrary command strings for the message of
>>> the day screen. Now only a specific list of commands is allowed.
>>> - Addressed issue in which AWPs and Scouts sometimes did not make
>>> the zooming sound.
>>> - cvar mat_showlowresimage is now a cheat command.
>>> - Many development console commands which would crash the server
>>> removed.
>>> - Updated source engine addresses many issues:
>>> - Better flashlight effect
>>> - Better HDR behavior
>>> - Multicore rendering support
>>> - Added sv_disablefreezecam cvar to turn off the freezecam on a
>>> server.
>>> - Added sv_nonemesis cvar to turn off domination/revenge on a server.
>>> - Added sv_nomvp cvar to turn off MVP stars on a server.
>>> - Added sv_nostats cvar to turn off stats on a server.
>>> - Removed -tickrate command line option and defaulted tick rate to
>>> 66 rather than 33. This addressed a number of issues, including:
>>>- Tick rate affecting how fast doors open / close
>>>- Tick rate causing players hitting the ground to stutter
>>>- Tick rate affecting the firing mechanisms of certain guns
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
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>
> very shinny
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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available

[Scott Highland]

I'm glad we had this talk.

Dog wrote:
> And of course, as with all TF2 updates, it broke a part of DoDS.
>
> It is beyond belief.
> This time, it's the flashlight causing client crashes.  They turn on the
> flashlight and their client dies.
> A month or two ago, they removed the flames for ignited entities.  Players
> would get ignited with no flames.
>
> Gets very depressing every time Jason announces a TF2 update.
> It's like "Oh Jeez...what the hell has broken now?"
>
> I appreciate that TF2 is way more important than DoDS.
> I understand it's fun and exciting to release new stuff for TF2.
> But please, please oh please can you figure out a way of removing DoDS from
> OB updates?
>
> It's 1.20am and I'm tired spending my valuable time fixing stuff after an
> update.
>
> --Dog
> TheVille.Org
>
> -
> Sent from my Sinclair ZX80
> -
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Re: [hlds] [TF2] Is it possible to replace sound files?

[Scott Highland]

You'd have to change the game to reference a new sound file that your 
clients download as a resource, I'm not quite sure how you'd do that though.

??? wrote:
> I've seen servers with replaced sound clips even for taunt and stuff like
> that, but I have no idea how it's done."
>
>
>
>
> 2010/4/8 Dr.Stinglock 
>
>   
>> Unfortunately nobody will download the new sound files as they already have
>> it on their client.
>> I'm sure it could be achieved with sourcemod ,I just had a quick search and
>> couldn't find anything other than endround and killstreak sounds but
>> something like that is probably be what you're after.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of In Hyuk Seo
>> Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2010 2:35 PM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> Subject: [hlds] [TF2] Is it possible to replace sound files?
>>
>> Is it possible to replace sound files on the server so everyone hears the
>> same replaced clip?
>> I'd like to replace various sound files like pyro taunt, medic's
>> ubercharge,
>> etc. with my own clips and I am not sure if it's possible.
>> I am sorry if this is sourcemod related, I don't even know if this requires
>> a plugin to be honest.
>> I'd appreciate any help. Thank you.
>> ___
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Re: [hlds] Windows Control Panel

[Scott Highland]

Cause no one wants to play with a bunch of dumb furries, thats why.

DontWannaName! wrote:
> Why? :P
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Cc2iscooL  wrote:
>
>   
>> Stopped hosting on my own box.
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2010 10:27 PM, "DontWannaName!"  wrote:
>>
>> Well why did you move away from it?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Cc2iscooL  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Serverdoc used to work pr...
>>>   
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Re: [hlds] Windows Control Panel

[Scott Highland]

If you're making your own service, you should be able to check if the DS 
becomes unresponsive, I don't see why not. I'd probably do something 
like this, if I were still running servers that is.

Cc2iscooL wrote:
> The only problem with user services is it won't be able to tell if your
> server has locked up. Same with task scheduler, only if it crashes.
>
> On Apr 7, 2010 10:10 PM, "dmex"  wrote:
>
>
> Task Scheduler?
>
> Just tick "If the task fails, Restart every xx" and  untick "Stop Task if it
> runs longer than 3 days".
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: DontWannaName!
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:59 AM
> To: Half-L...
>
> I have been using Server Checker for a while now but its becoming very dated
> since its no longer bei...
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Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.

[Scott Highland]

> In a general sense, there are a couple of client side plug-ins that do in
fact serve a valid purpose, POV-Recorder, the ESEA Client plug-in and a
couple of others.

Maybe you could explain why this whole list, and the company that runs it 
should all agree to completely remove the ability to incorporate modifications 
just because it would suit YOUR needs as an anti-cheat function to thwart the 
.3% of TF2 players that are abusing it in this fashion? That's a pretty 
self-centered way of thinking and kind of ridiculous, it's sad so many of you 
don't seem to see it this way.

ics wrote:
> Perhaps you could explain why client needs to load plugins in the first 
> place? Game runs just fine without any. Plugins really exist for servers 
> only. They either bring out extra features or gameplay changes. Clients 
> aka players need none of those.
>
> For Steve i would like to say that srcds can be open window to 
> harddrive. Just that it's the servers harddrive. Files can still be 
> uploaded to the server by clients and downloaded from the servers by 
> clients unless they have somekind of extra protection. It is true that 
> Valve fixed some of methods by preventing some files to be downloaded 
> but not all.
>
> -ics
>
> 3.4.2010 1:03, Scott Highland kirjoitti:
>   
>> How would disabling it be best? Again, no one on the list seems to get
>> it. I don't doubt that it's possible to load addons on the client, I'm
>> very sure it is. You guys seem to want to make the assumption that
>> anything that could be loaded into the client that can be malicious, IS
>> in fact malicious. Server administrators can install malicious plugins
>> that can do things 100x worse than any plugin on the client could do. Am
>> I going to make the argument that the whole system that allows servers
>> to load custom plugins should be removed, obviously not.
>> Why is it servers should be immune to this kind of 'security' (it's a
>> very false sense of security, what you guys are suggesting) and the game
>> client should not?
>>
>> 1nsane wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Right, having it disabled entirely would be the best.
>>>
>>> As I said before, there's the Steam SRCDS that practically installs itself
>>> with Source engine games/mods if you need plugins and don't want standalone
>>> SRCDS.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Saul 
>>> Rennisonwrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>   
>>>> They're loaded at launch, like any other DLL. It's basically treated like
>>>> another game DLL (in terms of callbacks). If plugins are loaded when a
>>>> listen server is created, what about after that? Even if the plugin is
>>>> unloaded, the plugin could have injected anything into the engine without
>>>> VAC noticing.
>>>>
>>>> Like I keep saying: the only way to prevent this is to have plugins for
>>>> dedicated servers only.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> - Saul.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2 April 2010 16:40, 1nsane<1nsane...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> So tell me, if I make my own hacking plugin and have it privately shared
>>>>> with trusted people, how will any server admin be able to detect it?
>>>>>
>>>>> The server plugins that stop client plugins are only checking PUBLICALY
>>>>> known cvars such as "sm_version",if those cvars are renamed or don't
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>   
>>>> exit,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> you get to load any plugin you want and be a major HAXXOR besting this
>>>>> detection.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also the Source engine was just fine for years before people figured out
>>>>> how
>>>>> to make/use "client" plugins. Disabling client side plugin loading would
>>>>> probably be the easiest way of fixing this.
>>>>> Why should the game client load a VSP (Valve SERVER Plugin) unless it's a
>>>>> listen server?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Scott Highland
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>   
>>>>>> No offense, but this whole list sucks at problem solving, e

Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.

[Scott Highland]

Malicious as in using the plugin to cheat. There is ways to control 
damage dealt by bullets and projectiles, as well as controlling crit 
factor, player speed and a number of different important gameplay 
aspects using SourceMod. All you need is to know how to write a simple 
script.

And Cc that doesn't really do anything to justify the breaking of mods 
designed to be installed on the client.

You know what, this whole thread really just puzzles the pinkhearts out 
of me, I really can't be arsed to defend this position anymore, if 
theres any single person out there who believes in surviving developers 
rights then good luck.

msleeper wrote:
> Yeah, I seriously am failing to see what a "malicious plugin" could
> possibly be. To some people, this coming from me should be saying
> something. Some people might consider some plugins to be minorly
> annoying, but there really isn't any way for a game server to install
> spyware on your computer or something equally retarded. As somebody
> said, if you go to a server that is running "malicious" text ad spam or
> something... then leave.
>
>
> On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 19:13 -0400, Steven Crothers wrote:
>   
>> The most a plugin can do is change your name and a few other cvars. It's not
>> like srcds is an open window to your harddrive or anything...
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cc2iscooL
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:09 PM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>>
>> I've never run malicious plugins so I really don't know what's out there.
>>
>> Here's a good website where you might find some more examples for your
>> reference.
>>
>> http://www.google.com
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Steven Crothers
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I honestly thought you were going to give a "good" reason.
>>>
>>> I guess slapping is pretty bad in the servers you visit eh?
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cc2iscooL
>>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:24 PM
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>>>
>>> In the instance where a player can leave a modded server he or she likes,
>>> it's not really that big of a deal. Now when you have people coming on to
>>> legitimate community servers and causing problems with modded files and
>>> plugins it's a different story, as in the first scenario, the person
>>> running
>>> the server has malicious intent, whereas in the second scenario, the
>>> malicious user is joining a server where plugins may give them an unfair
>>> advantage against other players.
>>>
>>> While I agree that server operators can load plugins that do nasty things,
>>> the player has the option to leave, whereas if a malicious client plugin
>>> user joins a server, the server operator has to ban that person, if they
>>> even know they're using a plugin in the first place. I agree with the
>>> notion
>>> that clients should not be able to load plugins. Why? Because if you
>>>   
>> really
>> 
>>> want a lan server for 20 minutes you can run the server tool off your
>>> computer, a VM, or something of that nature. The people who are using
>>> plugins for legitimate reasons (such as testing) KNOW how to setup a
>>> server.
>>>
>>> To Saul,
>>>
>>> A server owner can run malicious programs to spam users with text, sounds,
>>> slap the player, and just make the game unplayable to the person. It could
>>> be subtle as well, such as making clients do differing amounts of damage
>>> (way lower, way higher than usual, etc.)
>>>
>>> But the client has the option to leave said server without much toil.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Scott Highland  wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> How would disabling it be best? Again, no one on the list seems to get
>>>> it. I don't doubt that it's possible to load addons on the client, I'm
>>>> very sure it is. You guys seem to want to make the assumption that
>>>> anything that could be loaded into the client that can be malicious, IS
>>&g

Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.

[Scott Highland]

How would disabling it be best? Again, no one on the list seems to get 
it. I don't doubt that it's possible to load addons on the client, I'm 
very sure it is. You guys seem to want to make the assumption that 
anything that could be loaded into the client that can be malicious, IS 
in fact malicious. Server administrators can install malicious plugins 
that can do things 100x worse than any plugin on the client could do. Am 
I going to make the argument that the whole system that allows servers 
to load custom plugins should be removed, obviously not.
Why is it servers should be immune to this kind of 'security' (it's a 
very false sense of security, what you guys are suggesting) and the game 
client should not?

1nsane wrote:
> Right, having it disabled entirely would be the best.
>
> As I said before, there's the Steam SRCDS that practically installs itself
> with Source engine games/mods if you need plugins and don't want standalone
> SRCDS.
>
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:
>
>   
>> They're loaded at launch, like any other DLL. It's basically treated like
>> another game DLL (in terms of callbacks). If plugins are loaded when a
>> listen server is created, what about after that? Even if the plugin is
>> unloaded, the plugin could have injected anything into the engine without
>> VAC noticing.
>>
>> Like I keep saying: the only way to prevent this is to have plugins for
>> dedicated servers only.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Saul.
>>
>>
>> On 2 April 2010 16:40, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> So tell me, if I make my own hacking plugin and have it privately shared
>>> with trusted people, how will any server admin be able to detect it?
>>>
>>> The server plugins that stop client plugins are only checking PUBLICALY
>>> known cvars such as "sm_version",if those cvars are renamed or don't
>>>   
>> exit,
>> 
>>> you get to load any plugin you want and be a major HAXXOR besting this
>>> detection.
>>>
>>> Also the Source engine was just fine for years before people figured out
>>> how
>>> to make/use "client" plugins. Disabling client side plugin loading would
>>> probably be the easiest way of fixing this.
>>> Why should the game client load a VSP (Valve SERVER Plugin) unless it's a
>>> listen server?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Scott Highland 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> No offense, but this whole list sucks at problem solving, every single
>>>> idea to deal with this issue suggested in this thread is just terrible,
>>>> absolutely terrible.
>>>>
>>>> You can't disable clientside plugins just because a few admins are too
>>>> lazy to want to install a plugin to block people using clientside
>>>> plugins. People have the right to install clientside addons just as
>>>> server administrators have the right to install whatever addons they
>>>> want on their server. It's easy for you morons to want to impose this
>>>> 
>> on
>> 
>>>> everyone without seeing any consequences, Valve actually has to deal
>>>> with the complaints from their customers who use legitimate uses for
>>>> their plugins. Why don't you let professionals with their own companies
>>>> reputation on the line deal with this intense decision making process.
>>>> Suggesting valve should add a cvar to disable people with plugins is
>>>> dumb, there's already plugins out there that does exactly this, go
>>>> install it and quit complaining. Don't make Valve spent their time
>>>> babying the few admins too stupid to know how to set up a serious
>>>> dedicated server.
>>>>
>>>> This issue is basically the equivalent to the material hacks that are
>>>> possible to use anywhere on servers that have sv_pure set to 0 still.
>>>> It's not a big deal in the scope of things, and theres already ways of
>>>> dealing with it. Now quit acting like this is Valve's fault and go back
>>>> to blaming hackers and cheaters for your in-game shortcomings.
>>>>
>>>> Arg! wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I doubt making a cvar would work as the plugins could simply override
>>>>> it as they do now.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Saul R

Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.

[Scott Highland]

No offense, but this whole list sucks at problem solving, every single 
idea to deal with this issue suggested in this thread is just terrible, 
absolutely terrible.

You can't disable clientside plugins just because a few admins are too 
lazy to want to install a plugin to block people using clientside 
plugins. People have the right to install clientside addons just as 
server administrators have the right to install whatever addons they 
want on their server. It's easy for you morons to want to impose this on 
everyone without seeing any consequences, Valve actually has to deal 
with the complaints from their customers who use legitimate uses for 
their plugins. Why don't you let professionals with their own companies 
reputation on the line deal with this intense decision making process.
Suggesting valve should add a cvar to disable people with plugins is 
dumb, there's already plugins out there that does exactly this, go 
install it and quit complaining. Don't make Valve spent their time 
babying the few admins too stupid to know how to set up a serious 
dedicated server.

This issue is basically the equivalent to the material hacks that are 
possible to use anywhere on servers that have sv_pure set to 0 still. 
It's not a big deal in the scope of things, and theres already ways of 
dealing with it. Now quit acting like this is Valve's fault and go back 
to blaming hackers and cheaters for your in-game shortcomings.

Arg! wrote:
> I doubt making a cvar would work as the plugins could simply override
> it as they do now.
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Saul Rennison  wrote:
>   
>> If you aren't modifying game memory (i.e. hooking functions), then VAC won't
>> mind.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Saul.
>>
>>
>> On 31 March 2010 16:00, Keeper  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I don't know how VAC works, but if it's loaded via a client side plugin, I
>>> doubt VAC sees it as an "external" program altering the game's memory
>>> space.
>>> But not knowing how VAC works, there's no telling what they look for or how
>>> they are detecting it.
>>>
>>> Keeper
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Michael Krasnow [mailto:mnk...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:31 PM
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>>>
>>> doesn't VAC check the memory? but +1 to the option for server admins, but
>>> somehow someone would find a way to change that or spoof it, idk, its
>>> weirds
>>>
>>>
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>>> please visit:
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>>>   
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Re: [hlds] (no subject)

[Scott Highland]

no i feel as though we all need to sit down and discuss this some more

Dominic Marciano wrote:
> Moving on.
>
>   
>> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:07:34 +0800
>> From: clontar...@iinet.net.au
>> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] (no subject)
>>
>> Saxton Hale's first attempt at using email. From an iPhone of all 
>> things. I'm impressed.
>>
>> On 6/02/2010 9:25 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
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Re: [hlds] TF2 Hacker

[Scott Highland]

I have a VAC ban on my record (hl1).I am not a hacker.
Banning me because I'm banned on a different system would be unjustified,
and accomplish absolutely nothing other than having 1 less player on your
server.

Like someone said, if you want to stop hackers from playing on your servers,
either catch them in the act or let VAC do its thing because there's no way
you'll ever know otherwise.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Dustin Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> What did you say besides what boils down to "I don't agree" to prove
> that the logic is bullshit?
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 3:04 AM, tgnwells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Well I am someone who happens to be VAC banned on the HL1 engine, on the
> > same account I keep all my Source engine games no less. FYI, I have
> > never used hacks, so if you're going to ban me from your dedicated
> > servers (which I probably won't even notice or care) you should at least
> > know your logic is bullshit.
> >
> > Tony Paloma wrote:
> >> I'm definitely in favor. Banning people who cheated in other engines
> will
> >> suffice in the mean time.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dustin Wyatt
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:04 PM
> >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Hacker
> >>
> >> That's not true, I actually can think of better deterrents but I don't
> >> think most people would be in favor of jail time for cheaters.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Dustin Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If you hack on one engine, you're likely to hack on another.  Even if
> >>> that wasn't true, I can't think of a better deterrent than thread of
> >>> banning from all Valve games.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 4:30 PM, tgnwells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
>  That's a stupid idea. Hey, I'm vac banned on the HL1 engine, therefore
> I
>  must hack in every game I own, right?
> 
>  Donnie Newlove wrote:
> 
> > Well, his VAC status does not look good for him so its true that he
> is
> > a cheater, but he has probably not been caught by VAC on the Source
> > engine.
> >
> > This plugin still does not exist yet, but when it does it will change
> > that, I'm looking forward to it.
> > http://www.vacbanned.com/plugin.php
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Ben B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> So I wanted to play on my server, 18 poeple on it, filling up... so
> >>
> >> while I
> >>
> >> load, this hacker gets on with his aimbot/speed hack as sniper, and
> >> basically makes most people quit, there are only 5 people remaining
> >>
> >> when I
> >>
> >> get in game.
> >>
> >> You have no Idea how enraged I was over this, I told him I was
> giving
> >>
> >> his ID
> >>
> >> to anyone I can find, so here I go.
> >>
> >> nicknames: Pitty: like 1000? lol, [COTB]austantacious
> >> Steam Page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197997419331
> >> STEAM_ID: STEAM_0:1:18576801
> >> IP: 24.2.199.151
> >>
> >> Please ban this pile of crap from all your servers until vac gets
> him
> >>
> >> or
> >>
> >> something D:.
> >>
> >> --
> >> From Ben B. (Goerge)
> >> ___
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
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> 
> >>
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