Re: [HOT] wish list validation tool

2017-08-12 Thread Bjoern Hassler 
Hi John,

It needs to be much simpler to use.  If its too complex then it won't be
> used.
>

I totally agree. At the moment, it's a front end to the kind of overpass
queries I would run at mapathons, so it's a simplification already :) But
yes, it needs to be made simpler. However, the bbox entry we can't do
anything about unless the task manager provides it... One way to simplify
it would be to hide the form completely, and run it off a link from the
tasks manager. The output we could simplifoed more, and make it more
readable.

The aim would be to quickly pick up new mappers before they get into bad
> habits and does it matter if a building is square or not?  Realistically
> squaring in iD is an approximation so the unsquared building might be
> closer to the original than the squared one and squaring isn't a big deal.
> In JOSM select building=yes, node:4 then q.
>

Squaring is often part of the mapathon instructions, and is something we
can check, and it's there by request. For an unsquared buildings, we don't
know how far off rectangular it is. However, I'm agnostic on this - the
tool should support whatever mapathon instructions are provided.

If its run daily then the date becomes irrelevant.  Do I care if the mapper
> is mapping in a mapathon or not?
>

I would say yes - I used the tool during mapathons, to pick up new mappers
who are making errors (or are struggling to get going), and we can support
them right there; so yes, it's useful during the mapathon.

Also (unfortunately) you need to have a time or geographical limit -
otherwise you're picking up all edits that user ever made. As far as I
know, it's not possible to search for specific changesets/objects made
under a hashtag. (The changesets would not work with overpass, as overpass
cannot deal wth changesets). So really, the only option would be to
retrieve the full objects directly from the RC API (currently not possible
afaik) - but if this demonstrator is useful, maybe the RC folks would
consider it?

Outside mapathons: Yes, of course, you could also use in the broader OSM
context, to follow new OSM members; or of course new MM members who join
online, not through a mapathon. I had assumed that most people get in touch
with MM through a mapathon, but that may not be correct. However, the
initial idea was to explore how physical MM mapathons could be made more
effective and support new mappers better, but offering live stats during a
mapathon.

Overall, for the tool, what we have now is meant to be a demonstrator for a
different approach to validation and supporting users. In terms of
usability, I'm happy to run it for anybody who wants to use it for a
mapathon or otherwise - just let me know when your mapathon/event is, and
we'll set it up for you. We've got a team of volunteers (Gysler and
Blanca), so if there's interest (and it's the right approach) then we can
move it on. Otherwise we'll look at another aspect of MM :)

Hope that makes sense!
Bjoern


>
>
>
> On 12 August 2017 at 09:03, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Just to say that we've deployed an updated version - there's still a lot
>> to do, and some queries of course can get the overpass API to time out...
>> but e.g. here's a sample, looking at hashtag #crows2map (the mapathon
>> tomorrow), limited to Tanzania:
>>
>> http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html?hashtag=crowd2map;
>> from29.3269773,-11.761254,40.6584071,
>> -0.9854812=true=true
>> details=false=false=1
>>
>> Scroll past the query boxes, to see the output.
>>
>> In response to your question:
>>
>> On 9 August 2017 at 22:54, john whelan  wrote:
>>
>>> What is needed is to pick up the coordinates of each tile of each
>>> project.
>>>
>>
>> Yes - I wished there was an URI like
>> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3296/bbox that gave you the bbox for the
>> task, and ideally /tiles as well.
>>
>>
>>> Then pickup the mapper's name from the task manager whether or not they
>>> have completed a tile.
>>>
>>
>> That may not be needed, as you can just get the edits in that tile?
>>
>> Each day scan all the uploads for unusual tags, discard those who weren't
>>> on the list of HOT mappers, check the coordinates for the project and tile.
>>>
>>
>> Our tool does this, but you just have to enter the coordinates manually.
>> I think the tile may not be needed in the first instance, as it doesn't
>> really matter, as long as you can find the user? I would do the check per
>> project, and then message the user. Of course, if you want to give feedback
>> on the tile, then you need the tile.
>>
>>
>>> Feed that into a list that a validator could check.  Not easy but
>>> technically doable.  Ideally sorted by the number of edits the mapper has
>>> made.
>>>
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, then we have this. Our tool outputs links
>> to OSM for each problematic object. (At the moment only to the OSM site,
>> but we'll amend this to load them in bulk into JOSM...

Re: [HOT] wish list validation tool

2017-08-12 Thread john whelan 
It needs to be much simpler to use.  If its too complex then it won't be
used.  Think in terms of the user interface can it be simplified?  We don't
have many validators / validator time and the tool is to make the most of
what we have.

The aim would be to quickly pick up new mappers before they get into bad
habits and does it matter if a building is square or not?  Realistically
squaring in iD is an approximation so the unsquared building might be
closer to the original than the squared one and squaring isn't a big deal.
In JOSM select building=yes, node:4 then q.

If its run daily then the date becomes irrelevant.  Do I care if the mapper
is mapping in a mapathon or not?

Cheerio John



On 12 August 2017 at 09:03, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Just to say that we've deployed an updated version - there's still a lot
> to do, and some queries of course can get the overpass API to time out...
> but e.g. here's a sample, looking at hashtag #crows2map (the mapathon
> tomorrow), limited to Tanzania:
>
> http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html?hashtag=
> crowd2map29.3269773,-11.761254,40.
> 6584071,-0.9854812=true=true&
> alwaysShowOPdetails=false=false=1
>
> Scroll past the query boxes, to see the output.
>
> In response to your question:
>
> On 9 August 2017 at 22:54, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> What is needed is to pick up the coordinates of each tile of each project.
>>
>
> Yes - I wished there was an URI like
> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3296/bbox that gave you the bbox for the
> task, and ideally /tiles as well.
>
>
>> Then pickup the mapper's name from the task manager whether or not they
>> have completed a tile.
>>
>
> That may not be needed, as you can just get the edits in that tile?
>
> Each day scan all the uploads for unusual tags, discard those who weren't
>> on the list of HOT mappers, check the coordinates for the project and tile.
>>
>
> Our tool does this, but you just have to enter the coordinates manually. I
> think the tile may not be needed in the first instance, as it doesn't
> really matter, as long as you can find the user? I would do the check per
> project, and then message the user. Of course, if you want to give feedback
> on the tile, then you need the tile.
>
>
>> Feed that into a list that a validator could check.  Not easy but
>> technically doable.  Ideally sorted by the number of edits the mapper has
>> made.
>>
>
> If I understand you correctly, then we have this. Our tool outputs links
> to OSM for each problematic object. (At the moment only to the OSM site,
> but we'll amend this to load them in bulk into JOSM... when we have a
> moment - it's easy to do).
>
>
>> If it picked up suspect tags like living_street in Africa it wouldn't
>> break my heart.
>>
>
> At the moment, the list of tags that are deemed 'ok' is fixed, but it
> could easily be changed.
>
>
>> Something for the Ottawa summit perhaps?
>>
>
> I won't be there, but happy to participate remotely.
>
> Bjoern
>
>
>>
>> On 9 August 2017 at 16:47, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> We've made a bit of progress regarding mmstats, https://github.com/OS
>>> M-Utilities/JOSM-Scripts-HOT/tree/master/www, latest working version
>>> deployed here: http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html
>>>
>>> We'll make a bit more progress over the next few days, but it does
>>> already pick up when mappers are using tags outside a specified set. It's
>>> quite simple but would have picked up this issue.
>>>
>>> It would be great if project owners trialled
>>> http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html on their project hashtag -
>>> we'd be quite happy to tailor it (where possible given the currently
>>> existing APIs, i.e. red cross / overpass etc).
>>>
>>> Bjoern
>>>
>>> On 9 August 2017 at 21:03, john whelan  wrote:
>>>
 Yes I know I'm a bit one tracked sometimes but quite by chance I
 stumbled across a HOT mapper who had tagged 264 buildings Yess=Building
 in Togo.

 I have corrected these but they were done five months ago.

 In the ideal world we would have enough validators but we don't so
 could someone at least scan the mappers mapping on a project and highlight
 unusual tags or even no tags?

 If it could be done daily feedback could be given quickly which would
 reduce the number of errors and the time spent correcting them.

 It does require some manual validation but it would pick up problems
 more quickly.

 Thanks John

 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


>>>
>>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] wish list validation tool

2017-08-12 Thread Bjoern Hassler 
Hi John,

Just to say that we've deployed an updated version - there's still a lot to
do, and some queries of course can get the overpass API to time out... but
e.g. here's a sample, looking at hashtag #crows2map (the mapathon
tomorrow), limited to Tanzania:

http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html?hashtag=crowd2map29.3269773,-11.761254,40.6584071,-0.9854812=true=true=false=false=1

Scroll past the query boxes, to see the output.

In response to your question:

On 9 August 2017 at 22:54, john whelan  wrote:

> What is needed is to pick up the coordinates of each tile of each project.
>

Yes - I wished there was an URI like
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3296/bbox that gave you the bbox for the
task, and ideally /tiles as well.


> Then pickup the mapper's name from the task manager whether or not they
> have completed a tile.
>

That may not be needed, as you can just get the edits in that tile?

Each day scan all the uploads for unusual tags, discard those who weren't
> on the list of HOT mappers, check the coordinates for the project and tile.
>

Our tool does this, but you just have to enter the coordinates manually. I
think the tile may not be needed in the first instance, as it doesn't
really matter, as long as you can find the user? I would do the check per
project, and then message the user. Of course, if you want to give feedback
on the tile, then you need the tile.


> Feed that into a list that a validator could check.  Not easy but
> technically doable.  Ideally sorted by the number of edits the mapper has
> made.
>

If I understand you correctly, then we have this. Our tool outputs links to
OSM for each problematic object. (At the moment only to the OSM site, but
we'll amend this to load them in bulk into JOSM... when we have a moment -
it's easy to do).


> If it picked up suspect tags like living_street in Africa it wouldn't
> break my heart.
>

At the moment, the list of tags that are deemed 'ok' is fixed, but it could
easily be changed.


> Something for the Ottawa summit perhaps?
>

I won't be there, but happy to participate remotely.

Bjoern


>
> On 9 August 2017 at 16:47, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> We've made a bit of progress regarding mmstats, https://github.com/OS
>> M-Utilities/JOSM-Scripts-HOT/tree/master/www, latest working version
>> deployed here: http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html
>>
>> We'll make a bit more progress over the next few days, but it does
>> already pick up when mappers are using tags outside a specified set. It's
>> quite simple but would have picked up this issue.
>>
>> It would be great if project owners trialled
>> http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html on their project hashtag -
>> we'd be quite happy to tailor it (where possible given the currently
>> existing APIs, i.e. red cross / overpass etc).
>>
>> Bjoern
>>
>> On 9 August 2017 at 21:03, john whelan  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I know I'm a bit one tracked sometimes but quite by chance I
>>> stumbled across a HOT mapper who had tagged 264 buildings Yess=Building
>>> in Togo.
>>>
>>> I have corrected these but they were done five months ago.
>>>
>>> In the ideal world we would have enough validators but we don't so could
>>> someone at least scan the mappers mapping on a project and highlight
>>> unusual tags or even no tags?
>>>
>>> If it could be done daily feedback could be given quickly which would
>>> reduce the number of errors and the time spent correcting them.
>>>
>>> It does require some manual validation but it would pick up problems
>>> more quickly.
>>>
>>> Thanks John
>>>
>>> ___
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>>
>>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] wish list validation tool

2017-08-09 Thread john whelan 
What is needed is to pick up the coordinates of each tile of each project.

Then pickup the mapper's name from the task manager whether or not they
have completed a tile.

Each day scan all the uploads for unusual tags, discard those who weren't
on the list of HOT mappers, check the coordinates for the project and tile.

Feed that into a list that a validator could check.  Not easy but
technically doable.  Ideally sorted by the number of edits the mapper has
made.

If it picked up suspect tags like living_street in Africa it wouldn't break
my heart.

It is a project that needs managing first to determine the values, it could
even be by project.

Next how to handle the feedback.  If we know the first language of the
mapper can we arrange a validator with the same first language?

If no validator is available should some sort of automated response be
sent?  Especially if it is someone who has just started mapping?

Something for the Ottawa summit perhaps?

Cheerio John

On 9 August 2017 at 16:47, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> We've made a bit of progress regarding mmstats, https://github.com/
> OSM-Utilities/JOSM-Scripts-HOT/tree/master/www, latest working version
> deployed here: http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html
>
> We'll make a bit more progress over the next few days, but it does already
> pick up when mappers are using tags outside a specified set. It's quite
> simple but would have picked up this issue.
>
> It would be great if project owners trialled http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/
> mmstats.html on their project hashtag - we'd be quite happy to tailor it
> (where possible given the currently existing APIs, i.e. red cross /
> overpass etc).
>
> Bjoern
>
> On 9 August 2017 at 21:03, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> Yes I know I'm a bit one tracked sometimes but quite by chance I stumbled
>> across a HOT mapper who had tagged 264 buildings Yess=Building
>> in Togo.
>>
>> I have corrected these but they were done five months ago.
>>
>> In the ideal world we would have enough validators but we don't so could
>> someone at least scan the mappers mapping on a project and highlight
>> unusual tags or even no tags?
>>
>> If it could be done daily feedback could be given quickly which would
>> reduce the number of errors and the time spent correcting them.
>>
>> It does require some manual validation but it would pick up problems more
>> quickly.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> ___
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] wish list validation tool

2017-08-09 Thread Bjoern Hassler 
Hi John,

We've made a bit of progress regarding mmstats,
https://github.com/OSM-Utilities/JOSM-Scripts-HOT/tree/master/www, latest
working version deployed here: http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html

We'll make a bit more progress over the next few days, but it does already
pick up when mappers are using tags outside a specified set. It's quite
simple but would have picked up this issue.

It would be great if project owners trialled
http://bjohas.de/mmstats/www/mmstats.html on their project hashtag - we'd
be quite happy to tailor it (where possible given the currently existing
APIs, i.e. red cross / overpass etc).

Bjoern

On 9 August 2017 at 21:03, john whelan  wrote:

> Yes I know I'm a bit one tracked sometimes but quite by chance I stumbled
> across a HOT mapper who had tagged 264 buildings Yess=Building
> in Togo.
>
> I have corrected these but they were done five months ago.
>
> In the ideal world we would have enough validators but we don't so could
> someone at least scan the mappers mapping on a project and highlight
> unusual tags or even no tags?
>
> If it could be done daily feedback could be given quickly which would
> reduce the number of errors and the time spent correcting them.
>
> It does require some manual validation but it would pick up problems more
> quickly.
>
> Thanks John
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot