Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Sambong]

i feel it is how one represents themself... an episode of/for hpr,  or a 
podcast hosted on hpr... i agree with the policy current.  hpr is not a 
host in my view.


-- brian


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Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Jason Dodd]

I missed most of this because work is beating me down.

But it has always appeared to me that Linux Inlaws was made for HPR so far.

On 8/17/22 12:55, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2022-08-17 18:45, yann...@frenchguy.ch wrote:
Gosh, I didn't think anything would make me break my silence, but I 
have to.


I'm not the kind of guy to say "I told you so", but  on Thu Feb 
13 04:40:40 PST 2020 - that's 2 and a half years ago ! - I wrote and 
email titled "HPR 3009" in wich I said :


I'm writting to you today, because I am concerned by episode 3009.
This seems to me like a clear case of "syndication" : first the 
title, "Linux Inlaws S01 E01", and then the fact that there is no 
mention of HPR at all in the show.


The whole thing is here :
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014677.html

I stand on my position : Linux Inlaws (in its current form) has no 
business being on HPR.


(Oh well, I'd better go for it, now : I told you so !)

Anyway, back to being silent.

Yannick, the french guy Switzerland.


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Thanks yannick. I had completely forgotten this thread.

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014678.html

When I was at the stand at FOSDEM I spoke to Christoph and it became
clear that their website and feed are not active. So they are posting
exclusively to HPR. So we are bootstrapping their show for them.

Once they have everything ready then they will move to their own feeds
and become a fellow show on the Free Culture Podcasts site.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

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Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-17 18:45, yann...@frenchguy.ch wrote:
Gosh, I didn't think anything would make me break my silence, but I 
have to.


I'm not the kind of guy to say "I told you so", but  on Thu Feb 13 
04:40:40 PST 2020 - that's 2 and a half years ago ! - I wrote and 
email titled "HPR 3009" in wich I said :


I'm writting to you today, because I am concerned by episode 3009.
This seems to me like a clear case of "syndication" : first the title, 
"Linux Inlaws S01 E01", and then the fact that there is no mention of 
HPR at all in the show.


The whole thing is here :
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014677.html

I stand on my position : Linux Inlaws (in its current form) has no 
business being on HPR.


(Oh well, I'd better go for it, now : I told you so !)

Anyway, back to being silent.

Yannick, the french guy Switzerland.


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Thanks yannick. I had completely forgotten this thread.

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014678.html

When I was at the stand at FOSDEM I spoke to Christoph and it became
clear that their website and feed are not active. So they are posting
exclusively to HPR. So we are bootstrapping their show for them.

Once they have everything ready then they will move to their own feeds
and become a fellow show on the Free Culture Podcasts site.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[yannick]

Gosh, I didn't think anything would make me break my silence, but I
have to.

I'm not the kind of guy to say "I told you so", but  on Thu Feb
13 04:40:40 PST 2020 - that's 2 and a half years ago ! - I wrote and
email titled "HPR 3009" in wich I said :

I'm writting to you today, because I am concerned by episode 3009. 

This seems to me like a clear case of "syndication" : first the title,
"Linux Inlaws S01 E01", and then the fact that there is no mention of
HPR at all in the show.

The whole thing is here :
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014677.html

I stand on my position : Linux Inlaws (in its current form) has no
business being on HPR.

(Oh well, I'd better go for it, now : I told you so !)

Anyway, back to being silent.

Yannick, the french guy Switzerland.


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Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

The "HPR syndication policy" was designed to stop other podcasts from 
monopolizing slots on the HPR queue.


> Question 1 -  What would it take to get the Linux Inlaws into 
compliance with the HPR syndication policy?


Stop been a podcast, start posting shows. Consider shows from Klaatu or 
Knightwise - do you ever have any difficulty knowing if their shows were 
intended for HPR or if they were from their own podcast ?


> Question 2 - Is a HPR host having a separate website to promote their 
HPR episodes OK?


Of course. Have a look at Ahuka, 
https://www.zwilnik.com/hacker-public-radio/
In fact when he submits a show and posts there, we see several hundred 
redirects from his site to HPR.


> Question 3 - Many HPR episodes are audio versions of a web page 
previously published by the host.  Does an audio version of an existing 
web page (Verbatim or summarized) meet the requirement of "material 
created exclusively for HPR"?


Probably not because it is there content and they are creating a new 
medium for HPR. Take the DOS series, that was posted years ago, but the 
shows were recorded for HPR. However it would be on a case by case basis.


> The biggest issue I see is the separate Linux inlaws feed with 
unpublished HPR episodes. What if they replaced their feed 
(https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml) with the HPR Series feed?


No that is not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that we have been 
turning other podcasts away for the same reasons that we're turning the 
Linux Inlaws away.


We do not syndicate podcasts on HPR. So is the Linux InLaws a Podcast ? 
To use the saying "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and 
quacks like a duck, it's a duck.".


Ken.



On 2022-08-17 16:58, Todd wrote:
I have a few questions about the syndication policy. Hopefully I am 
not over complicating the issue.


Question 1 -  What would it take to get the Linux Inlaws into 
compliance with the HPR syndication policy?


The biggest issue I see is the separate Linux inlaws feed with 
unpublished HPR episodes.
What if they replaced their feed 
(https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml) with the HPR Series feed?



Question 2 - Is a HPR host having a separate website to promote their 
HPR episodes OK?


Question 3 - Many HPR episodes are audio versions of a web page 
previously published by the host.  Does an audio version of  an 
existing web page (Verbatim or summarized) meet the requirement of 
"material created exclusively for HPR"?



On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 6:56 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

With permission, I am posting the email and my response to the
Linux Inlaws.

Your comments are welcome

Ken.

On 16 Aug 2022, at 20:55, Ken Fallon 
 wrote:

Hi Lads,

As I think you are aware a discussion was carried out on the mail
list[1] following my request to clarify the nature of HPR. The
community is of the opinion that we are not a podcast hosting
platform, and do not "host" podcasts. All our series are
considered to be episodes that are part of the HPR podcast. This
puts your show at odds with our rule: "only releasing material
created exclusively for HPR.[2]". As we have applied this rule a
lot in the past, we cannot make an exception here. So if you wish
to continue to post to HPR, then you need to ensure that your
content is produced exclusively for HPR.

If you decide not to follow this path, then your future episodes
will need to be hosted elsewhere. As your content is Creative
Commons, then the Internet Archive would seem to be the logical
place to host the shows. We are obviously willing to assist with
the transition. We can also add your show to
https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, which by default gets you
exposure at any of the Fests that our contributors attend. We can
also send out notices to the other people we know who maintain
FLOSS podcast lists. Given a lot of people are subscribing to your
series RSS feed (?series=111), we can hard code a redirect to
https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml, and that way you don't lose
any dedicated subscribers. We will also be sure to remind people
to add your feed in the upcoming community news.

I know this is not great news for you, and I am not enjoying being
the messenger.

OK well tell me what you decide and as always you can bypass us
and bring this up on the mailing list[1], or you can contact the
smaller group of Auditors (audit...@hackerpublicradio.org) to
discuss it with them in private.

[1]

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-August/015343.html
[2]
https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication




On 2022-08-17 11:15, Linuxinlaws wrote:

Hi Ken,

We certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list - with
growing disbelief tbh - and as yet have not commented. As
LinuxInlaws we 

Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Claudio Miranda]

Hi everyone,

I've been following this e-mail thread for quite a bit and haven't said
much of anything, but I am in agreement that HPR is a podcast and not a
podcast hosting platform. Reason being is the following:

There used to be a couple of guys who started on HPR as "The Alien Brothers
Podcast." They had a number of episodes on HPR, but the eventual intent (if
I'm not mistaken) was to move away from HPR and host their podcasts on
their own. They were merely using HPR as a launchpad for their own podcast
to garner some listeners. Eventually, they did move on to have their own
feed for their podcast, but sadly it podfaded. Some of their HPR episodes
are still available via the archive, so that should give HPR enough backing
regarding this situation.

Anyway, just my two cents on the matter.

-Claudio

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 7:56 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> With permission, I am posting the email and my response to the Linux
> Inlaws.
>
> Your comments are welcome
>
> Ken.
>
> On 16 Aug 2022, at 20:55, Ken Fallon  
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lads,
>
> As I think you are aware a discussion was carried out on the mail list[1]
> following my request to clarify the nature of HPR. The community is of the
> opinion that we are not a podcast hosting platform, and do not "host"
> podcasts. All our series are considered to be episodes that are part of the
> HPR podcast. This puts your show at odds with our rule: "only releasing
> material created exclusively for HPR.[2]". As we have applied this rule a
> lot in the past, we cannot make an exception here. So if you wish to
> continue to post to HPR, then you need to ensure that your content is
> produced exclusively for HPR.
>
> If you decide not to follow this path, then your future episodes will need
> to be hosted elsewhere. As your content is Creative Commons, then the
> Internet Archive would seem to be the logical place to host the shows. We
> are obviously willing to assist with the transition. We can also add your
> show to https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, which by default gets you
> exposure at any of the Fests that our contributors attend. We can also send
> out notices to the other people we know who maintain FLOSS podcast lists.
> Given a lot of people are subscribing to your series RSS feed
> (?series=111), we can hard code a redirect to
> https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml, and that way you don't lose any
> dedicated subscribers. We will also be sure to remind people to add your
> feed in the upcoming community news.
>
> I know this is not great news for you, and I am not enjoying being the
> messenger.
> OK well tell me what you decide and as always you can bypass us and bring
> this up on the mailing list[1], or you can contact the smaller group of
> Auditors (audit...@hackerpublicradio.org) to discuss it with them in
> private.
>
> [1]
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-August/015343.html
> [2] https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication
>
>
> On 2022-08-17 11:15, Linuxinlaws wrote:
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> We certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list - with growing
> disbelief tbh - and as yet have not commented. As LinuxInlaws we applaud
> the democratic approach by listening to the community. At the same time we
> have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people commenting on a mailing be
> considered the whole community? As you well know, the silent majority tend
> not to comment on mailing lists.
>
> That being said, we also need to look at the actual arguments being made
> “HPR is not a podcasting platform and doesn’t allow syndication”. We fully
> agree and comply with this, as far as the LinuxInlaws are concerned, we are
> a series on HPR - just like many others. To argue the case:
> All our content is exclusively produced for and released on HPR
> Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial content
> producers on HPR. Our website is supporting only and does not host and
> recordings.
> Our set-up and the way we publish material has been the same from the
> start so why the sudden change of direction for HPR.
>
> We feel rather singled-out in this discussion and consider us no different
> to other series producers on HPR.
>
> More than happy to discuss. We greatly appreciate HPR and would prefer to
> remain a part of it.
>
> Martin and Chris.
>
>
> My response to the points are as follows:
>
> *> "At the same time we have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people
> commenting on a mailing be considered the whole community?"*
> How we operate as a community is described here
> https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance. These emails are also
> brought to the attention of the entire community every first Monday of the
> month in the Community News show. There the community in it's entirety can
> and do provide comments. Any proposals on improvements are welcome.
>
> *> "Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial
> content 

Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Todd]

I have a few questions about the syndication policy.  Hopefully I am not
over complicating the issue.

Question 1 -  What would it take to get the Linux Inlaws into compliance
with the HPR syndication policy?

The biggest issue I see is the separate Linux inlaws feed with unpublished
HPR episodes.
What if they replaced their feed (https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml)
with the HPR Series feed?


Question 2 - Is a HPR host having a separate website to promote their HPR
episodes OK?

Question 3 - Many HPR episodes are audio versions of a web page previously
published by the host.  Does an audio version of  an existing web page
(Verbatim or summarized) meet the requirement of "material created
exclusively for HPR"?


On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 6:56 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> With permission, I am posting the email and my response to the Linux
> Inlaws.
>
> Your comments are welcome
>
> Ken.
>
> On 16 Aug 2022, at 20:55, Ken Fallon  
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lads,
>
> As I think you are aware a discussion was carried out on the mail list[1]
> following my request to clarify the nature of HPR. The community is of the
> opinion that we are not a podcast hosting platform, and do not "host"
> podcasts. All our series are considered to be episodes that are part of the
> HPR podcast. This puts your show at odds with our rule: "only releasing
> material created exclusively for HPR.[2]". As we have applied this rule a
> lot in the past, we cannot make an exception here. So if you wish to
> continue to post to HPR, then you need to ensure that your content is
> produced exclusively for HPR.
>
> If you decide not to follow this path, then your future episodes will need
> to be hosted elsewhere. As your content is Creative Commons, then the
> Internet Archive would seem to be the logical place to host the shows. We
> are obviously willing to assist with the transition. We can also add your
> show to https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, which by default gets you
> exposure at any of the Fests that our contributors attend. We can also send
> out notices to the other people we know who maintain FLOSS podcast lists.
> Given a lot of people are subscribing to your series RSS feed
> (?series=111), we can hard code a redirect to
> https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml, and that way you don't lose any
> dedicated subscribers. We will also be sure to remind people to add your
> feed in the upcoming community news.
>
> I know this is not great news for you, and I am not enjoying being the
> messenger.
> OK well tell me what you decide and as always you can bypass us and bring
> this up on the mailing list[1], or you can contact the smaller group of
> Auditors (audit...@hackerpublicradio.org) to discuss it with them in
> private.
>
> [1]
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-August/015343.html
> [2] https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication
>
>
> On 2022-08-17 11:15, Linuxinlaws wrote:
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> We certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list - with growing
> disbelief tbh - and as yet have not commented. As LinuxInlaws we applaud
> the democratic approach by listening to the community. At the same time we
> have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people commenting on a mailing be
> considered the whole community? As you well know, the silent majority tend
> not to comment on mailing lists.
>
> That being said, we also need to look at the actual arguments being made
> “HPR is not a podcasting platform and doesn’t allow syndication”. We fully
> agree and comply with this, as far as the LinuxInlaws are concerned, we are
> a series on HPR - just like many others. To argue the case:
> All our content is exclusively produced for and released on HPR
> Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial content
> producers on HPR. Our website is supporting only and does not host and
> recordings.
> Our set-up and the way we publish material has been the same from the
> start so why the sudden change of direction for HPR.
>
> We feel rather singled-out in this discussion and consider us no different
> to other series producers on HPR.
>
> More than happy to discuss. We greatly appreciate HPR and would prefer to
> remain a part of it.
>
> Martin and Chris.
>
>
> My response to the points are as follows:
>
> *> "At the same time we have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people
> commenting on a mailing be considered the whole community?"*
> How we operate as a community is described here
> https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance. These emails are also
> brought to the attention of the entire community every first Monday of the
> month in the Community News show. There the community in it's entirety can
> and do provide comments. Any proposals on improvements are welcome.
>
> *> "Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial
> content producers on HPR."*
> Please give me an example of a show or series on HPR that has it's own
> 

Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

With permission, I am posting the email and my response to the Linux Inlaws.

Your comments are welcome

Ken.

On 16 Aug 2022, at 20:55, Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi Lads,

As I think you are aware a discussion was carried out on the mail 
list[1] following my request to clarify the nature of HPR. The community 
is of the opinion that we are not a podcast hosting platform, and do not 
"host" podcasts. All our series are considered to be episodes that are 
part of the HPR podcast. This puts your show at odds with our rule: 
"only releasing material created exclusively for HPR.[2]". As we have 
applied this rule a lot in the past, we cannot make an exception here. 
So if you wish to continue to post to HPR, then you need to ensure that 
your content is produced exclusively for HPR.


If you decide not to follow this path, then your future episodes will 
need to be hosted elsewhere. As your content is Creative Commons, then 
the Internet Archive would seem to be the logical place to host the 
shows. We are obviously willing to assist with the transition. We can 
also add your show to https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, which by default 
gets you exposure at any of the Fests that our contributors attend. We 
can also send out notices to the other people we know who maintain FLOSS 
podcast lists. Given a lot of people are subscribing to your series RSS 
feed (?series=111), we can hard code a redirect to 
https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml, and that way you don't lose any 
dedicated subscribers. We will also be sure to remind people to add your 
feed in the upcoming community news.


I know this is not great news for you, and I am not enjoying being the 
messenger.


OK well tell me what you decide and as always you can bypass us and 
bring this up on the mailing list[1], or you can contact the smaller 
group of Auditors (audit...@hackerpublicradio.org) to discuss it with 
them in private.


[1] 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-August/015343.html

[2] https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication




On 2022-08-17 11:15, Linuxinlaws wrote:

Hi Ken,

We certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list - with 
growing disbelief tbh - and as yet have not commented. As LinuxInlaws 
we applaud the democratic approach by listening to the community. At 
the same time we have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people 
commenting on a mailing be considered the whole community? As you 
well know, the silent majority tend not to comment on mailing lists.


That being said, we also need to look at the actual arguments being 
made “HPR is not a podcasting platform and doesn’t allow 
syndication”. We fully agree and comply with this, as far as the 
LinuxInlaws are concerned, we are a series on HPR - just like many 
others. To argue the case:

All our content is exclusively produced for and released on HPR
Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial 
content producers on HPR. Our website is supporting only and does not 
host and recordings.
Our set-up and the way we publish material has been the same from the 
start so why the sudden change of direction for HPR.


We feel rather singled-out in this discussion and consider us no 
different to other series producers on HPR.


More than happy to discuss. We greatly appreciate HPR and would 
prefer to remain a part of it.


Martin and Chris.




My response to the points are as follows:

/> "At the same time we have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people 
commenting on a mailing be considered the whole community?"/
How we operate as a community is described here 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance. These emails are 
also brought to the attention of the entire community every first Monday 
of the month in the Community News show. There the community in it's 
entirety can and do provide comments. Any proposals on improvements are 
welcome.


/> "Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial 
content producers on HPR."/
Please give me an example of a show or series on HPR that has it's own 
intro and outro, operates it's own website, has it's own feed that posts 
shows prior to them been aired on HPR. They will also qualify as 
syndicated shows and will be treated according to the same rules.

https://hackerpublicradio.org/series.php

/> "//Our set-up and the way we publish material has been the same from 
the start/"


We made you aware of the rule in the welcome email I send to new hosts:

   Are you planning on releasing exclusively on HPR or are you planning on
   hosting your own podcast ?

   If the former then no problem. If you are planning your own show then
   I'm posting one sample episode under the rules
   http://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication

   If you are doing your own show we will be happy to add your site and
   feed to thehttp://freeculturepodcasts.org/  list.

You did not answer the question in your