[IAEP] Fwd: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing
It took me while to realize that I forwarded it to a wrong list... -- Forwarded message -- From: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki.ohsh...@acm.org Cc: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence civilization? Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation? Cheers, Alan From: Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki.ohsh...@acm.org To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing Benoit is asking this. -- Forwarded message -- From: Benoît Fleury benoit.fle...@gmail.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Cc: IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, squeakland list squeakl...@squeakland.org Thank you Bert for the link. I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture. One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick just because it is a good idea. All the companies I’ve worked for have this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a way to invent “agriculture” we could put the world back together and all would prosper. If someone could explain me what it means. Thanks, Benoit. On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: Time interviews Alan Kay: http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/ - Bert - ___ squeakland mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland ___ squeakland mailing list squeakl...@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland -- -- Yoshiki -- -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugata Mitra at TED 2013
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Dominik Granada dgran...@frks.pl wrote: Arthur Benjamin says: teach statistics before calculus (check on TED) - cant paste link now Free and democratic schools experience indicates that strong testing and guidance understood traditionally are at least obsolete. and btw children in free schools learn calculus when they see the need for it I should have written: children won't invent calculus. (A big mistake, sorry about it.) As Walter wrote, that was what it meant. If you want to learn about the context of that statement, you can Google for it. Because calculus (and statistics, sure) is so cool that I'd hope that children learn it. If a child is in the project-based learning setting, I sure hope that he takes on a project that does give him a reason to learn it. If it is solely based on the need for it, however, surely most people are not going to need to learn calculus or statistics. cheers DG Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki.ohsh...@acm.org napisał: On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, When I was teaching I had a saying usually attributed to Confucius (carefully hand drawn in calligraphy… no computers available to print it then) and hung above the chalkboard (old technology). It was my motto for teaching: I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. It may have been first said 2500 years ago, but I believe it is still valid today. That is why I do what I do! Invoking proverbs is fun as you can always find the one that argues for the other way. The above one probably was a somewhat liberal translation of what Xunzi (荀子) wrot e. But one other thing Confucius said was: 學而不思則罔、思而不學則殆, for which I found an English translation: If you learn without thinking, you cannot understand truly. If you think without learning, you will be self-righteous. (I might translate the last word to dangerous, as it is closer to the original meaning.) Alan Kay often says: Children won't discover calculus on their own. Doing is important, but in the learning process good checking system and guidance is essential. The above quote should be taken as in addition to hearing and seeing, you should do things. -- -- Yoshiki IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Wysłane z telefonu. -- -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugata Mitra at TED 2013
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, When I was teaching I had a saying usually attributed to Confucius (carefully hand drawn in calligraphy… no computers available to print it then) and hung above the chalkboard (old technology). It was my motto for teaching: I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. It may have been first said 2500 years ago, but I believe it is still valid today. That is why I do what I do! Invoking proverbs is fun as you can always find the one that argues for the other way. The above one probably was a somewhat liberal translation of what Xunzi (荀子) wrote. But one other thing Confucius said was: 學而不思則罔、思而不學則殆, for which I found an English translation: If you learn without thinking, you cannot understand truly. If you think without learning, you will be self-righteous. (I might translate the last word to dangerous, as it is closer to the original meaning.) Alan Kay often says: Children won't discover calculus on their own. Doing is important, but in the learning process good checking system and guidance is essential. The above quote should be taken as in addition to hearing and seeing, you should do things. -- -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Abacus suggestions
Hi, Walter, At Sun, 9 Oct 2011 08:57:51 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: - As you can see, the default 1's digit (the big white dots) is in the middle, not the far right. That makes sense to tell that there are numbers smaller than 1 and for the idea of power of 10. (It is often a good technique to slide the decimal point, so I first thought the red triangle to mean this, but it is something else.) The red triangle is a mark found on many Chinese abaci. It is useful for to keeping track of place while doing multiplication and division. Ok. The scheme on the wiki is different from what I know. Which clears the used digits of multiplier as you go and that serves as the tracker. But I see that if you have it there, it can be used for such a purpose. - For a non-5 and 4 abacus, this is not simple, but then why kids in the 21st century need to learn Mayan arithmetic... My goal with the abacus was primarily to introduce the idea of multiple representations. Ok... It seems to me that these different traditional ones are tied to the way they say or write numbers. In other words, the abacus in that culture feels natural, but once we try to map the numberto base 10 arabic notation, it requires some extra mind work. Which may be about this multiple representations. - So, there are some 90 combinations of two one digit number additions. Some require 5's compliment arithmetic (adding 4 to 2 is subtracting 1 but then adding 5, etc.) or 10's (if it is the right terminlogy.) Abacus was about building the muscle memory for these 90 patterns of additions. Some of these require you to move both index finger and thumb at the same time. After acquiring this muscle memory, you can do any additions without thinking, and that is the point of abacus. But now, doing additions without thining is easier with electronic calculators. At the same time, the Abacus activity is not set up for learning about this part of idea (and XO is not multi touch, so you can't build the muscle memory). I haven't played with the abacus on the touch-screen XO yet... but it is not multitouch. Muscle memory is not something we can do much with on that hardware :P Hmm, too bad. The real abacus as an artifact feels good. We ride on it like a skate board, too. - There is a bug when I tried to make my own abacus. If there is a number already on abacus, changing the board made some beads stuck outside. I thought I fixed that bug in a recent release. What version are you using? It is from 508dx Dextrose 2 International. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Abacus suggestions
At Sun, 9 Oct 2011 15:11:24 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 12:29 AM, Yoshiki Ohshima yosh...@vpri.org wrote: For the first time I launched Abacus activity today. My impression is biased as I am Japanese and learned a version of it at school, but here is some suggestions: - The graphics lacks essential dots. You see some dots in this picture for example: http://kamedake.com/_src/sc946/DSC_1976.jpg. These are period and commas. The big white two dots means the it is 1's digit. The smaller dots on the bar are put every 3 digits; even though the Japanese writing system would work better with comma's every 4 digits, we conceeded to westerners. In any case, missing these dots was the first surprise for me. Would it make sense then to let the user move the dots left and right depending upon where they want the 1s digit? Or is it always in the same place? Unless we are to invent a new scheme, I'd keep these dots at the same place. But this could be a conservable opinion... -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Abacus suggestions
For the first time I launched Abacus activity today. My impression is biased as I am Japanese and learned a version of it at school, but here is some suggestions: - The graphics lacks essential dots. You see some dots in this picture for example: http://kamedake.com/_src/sc946/DSC_1976.jpg. These are period and commas. The big white two dots means the it is 1's digit. The smaller dots on the bar are put every 3 digits; even though the Japanese writing system would work better with comma's every 4 digits, we conceeded to westerners. In any case, missing these dots was the first surprise for me. - As you can see, the default 1's digit (the big white dots) is in the middle, not the far right. That makes sense to tell that there are numbers smaller than 1 and for the idea of power of 10. (It is often a good technique to slide the decimal point, so I first thought the red triangle to mean this, but it is something else.) - It trys to show the addition on the bar, but it defeats the whole point of abacus. Instead of showing: 700 + 10 + 7 = 717 We would put just one number at each column and then the result should be self explanatory. (It would show 7 1 7 and it is the result.) - For a non-5 and 4 abacus, this is not simple, but then why kids in the 21st century need to learn Mayan arithmetic... - So, there are some 90 combinations of two one digit number additions. Some require 5's compliment arithmetic (adding 4 to 2 is subtracting 1 but then adding 5, etc.) or 10's (if it is the right terminlogy.) Abacus was about building the muscle memory for these 90 patterns of additions. Some of these require you to move both index finger and thumb at the same time. After acquiring this muscle memory, you can do any additions without thinking, and that is the point of abacus. But now, doing additions without thining is easier with electronic calculators. At the same time, the Abacus activity is not set up for learning about this part of idea (and XO is not multi touch, so you can't build the muscle memory). - However, it is still valuable to be aware fo the idea of understanding the idea of adding 4 is adding 5 but subtracting 1, etc. - There is a bug when I tried to make my own abacus. If there is a number already on abacus, changing the board made some beads stuck outside. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] WEB DEVELOPER FOR SCRATCH 2.0
By now, people here would know about this job offering, but they are still looking for applicants: http://www.media.mit.edu/about/opportunities/web-developer-scratch-20 This would be a really exciting and high-visibility site... -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Call for Posters and Demonstrations: Visual Languages and Human Centric Computing
Hello, There is a symposium called Visual Languages and Human Centric Computing (VL/HCC). They are looking for posters and demos, including graphical educational systemss such as Etoys. If anybody interested in showing such systems, please submit applications. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Call for Posters and Demonstrations: Visual Languages and Human Centric Computing
At Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:27:03 -0700, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: Hello, There is a symposium called Visual Languages and Human Centric Computing (VL/HCC). They are looking for posters and demos, including graphical educational systemss such as Etoys. If anybody interested in showing such systems, please submit applications. -- Yoshiki Sorry, I forgot to include the link: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~vlhcc2011/submitting/posters-demos/ -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Chess activities
At Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:40:41 +1000, Kevin Kirton wrote: Would you need a chess engine though? Obviously you would if you wanted an activity where a player could play against the XO. But a chess engine would be heavy work for the XO wouldn't it? Wouldn't a simple on-screen chess board with collaboration enabled be a good fit for the XOs? Just FYI, although it is not good, Etoys comes with chess game last time I checked. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Exploring Sugar-on-Tablets
At Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:55:59 -0400, Erik Blankinship wrote: Before completely dismissing the mac ppc architecture, it is noteworthy that the platform has a bright retrograde future in tablets. http://blogger-off.com/apple-powerbook-g4-12-tablet/ Yup. A lesson we learned is that locking ourselves into one particular processor or OS is not a good idea, and trying to predict the particularity of future platforms is not going to work. Make things truly portable and adapt whenever a new thing come out is the right strategy. As Caryl pointed out, Etoys is designed to achieve this. A small self-contained virtualized environment that has very little external dependency seems to be a way to go. JavaScript on DOM may be good, and probably the key is to implement DOM in JavaScript so that it is portable to platforms with a JavaScript engine (along the idea of Dan Amelang) and perhaps write the grpahics engine also. http://github.com/damelang/mico/ Experimental version of Lively Kernel worked on it, so it may be a good direction to pursue... -- Yoshiki On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:58 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: PPC on Mac is also, unfortunately, a platform with no future, the last machine having been manufactured in 2005. It's a tribute to Apple's hardware quality that many are still around (I have G3s, G4s and G5s still going strong, including one of the latter duals maxed out with 8 Gb of RAM and 6 Tb of onboard disk) but the most recent MacOS (10.6) does not run on them, nor does any version of VirtualBox. Sean On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 4:21 AM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Caryl, Running Sugar in any machine is not free, we must invest many,many, hours of work, and the complexity of the plataform is increased. We need select out targets, we don't have infinite resources. Regards, Gonzalo On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: I haven't run Android on anything since I took my Android phone back to Verizon after trying and not liking it for a few days a couple of years ago. I am talking about running Sugar using whatever method can be devised. The easier the better! I have run Strawberry and Blueberry in a Virtual Box on my MacBook, but not without problems. I haven't tried the VB on the PowerBook I gave my husband after replacing the defunct hard drive and getting a new MacBook (no longer new ;-( . I have been able to run EToys to Go on both of them as well as an eeePC I bought so I could experiment with these things. Etoys project files transfer seamlessly between all three of these machines. My dream situation would be to have Sugar work the same way. Caryl Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:23:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [IAEP] Exploring Sugar-on-Tablets From: csc...@laptop.org To: martin.langh...@gmail.com CC: cbige...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; pbrobin...@gmail.com On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: PCs and Linux machines yes. But... there still lots of issues with Macs and so far it does not work with the older G4 Power PC Macs (EToys to go does!). Does Android run on your G4 PPC Mac?? Or is this all random talk? This week's work (Sugar-on-Chrome) provides a much better story for desktop compatibility. --scott ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel [2 text/plain; us-ascii (7bit)] ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Exploring Sugar-on-Tablets
At Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:44:30 -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yosh...@vpri.org wrote: Yup. A lesson we learned is that locking ourselves into one particular processor or OS is not a good idea, and trying to predict the particularity of future platforms is not going to work. Make things truly portable and adapt whenever a new thing come out is the right strategy. http://blog.chromium.org/2010/03/native-client-and-web-portability.html Should work with any language, any platform. Hehe, I've meaning to just make an Etoys port to NaCl but have not done it yet... Well, but what about a platform that does not ship NaCl. You still want to have a self-contained system that *can* run in NaCl but you cannot take NaCl to be your only environment. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Forward: Points of View - a tribute to Alan Kay, second printing available
From Ian... -- Yoshiki ---BeginMessage--- Folks, Some of you missed the first printing of our book Points of View -- a tribute to Alan Kay, supplies of which were depleted less than six hours after the announcement. We have made a second printing of the book that is now available (in return for a donation of $55 to Viewpoints Research which will help us to recover the costs of production and shipping). Please visit: http://vpri.org/pov for details, if you are interested. (A copy of the entire book in PDF is available for download, for free, from the same page.) Cheers, Ian Viewpoints Research is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to improving powerful ideas education for the world's children and to advancing the state of systems research and personal computing. Visit us online at: http://www.vpri.org ___ fonc mailing list f...@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ---End Message--- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] CFP: Ninth International Conference on Creating, Connecting and Collaborating through Computing
A call for papers. This conference has been going some years now, and the Etoys team presented a paper in 2009, for example. It would be a good venue for people in this community. Please forward this to relevant mailing lists, too. -- Yoshiki - Call for Papers Ninth International Conference on Creating, Connecting and Collaborating through Computing (C5 2011) 18-20 January 2011 Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan http://www.cm.is.ritsumei.ac.jp/c5-11/ Computers, networks, and other forms of technology are pervasive in our information-based society. Unfortunately, most users of this technology use it for passive consumption of information and entertainment. To evolve into a true knowledge society it is critical that we transform computer-based human activities to engage users in the active process of creating, connecting, and collaborating together. The C5 conference is for anyone interested in the use of computers as tools to develop and enable user-oriented creation, connection, and collaboration processes. Researchers, developers, educators and users come together at C5 to present new and ongoing work and to discuss future directions for creative computing and multimedia environments. We welcome the submission of theoretical and technical papers, practitioner/experience reports, and papers that bridge the gap between theory and practice or that encourage inter- and cross-disciplinary study. === Submissions === C5 invites submissions of full papers in (but not limited to) the following areas: * Technology-enhanced human-computer and human-human interaction * Multimedia authoring environments * New technologies for literature, music and the visual arts * Virtual worlds and immersive environments * Gaming/entertainment platforms and infrastructure * Social networks and social networking * Novel programming paradigms and languages for implementors * Scripting or visual paradigms and languages for end-users * Creating and maintaining online communities * Tools for creating/managing online services/environments * Distributed and collaborative working * Educational environments for classroom, field work and online/distance learning * Technologies for collaborative and self-empowered learning * Social and cultural implications of new technologies Papers should be submitted electronically in PDF format via EasyChair at: http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=c511 Submissions must be written in English (the official language of the conference) and must not exceed eight (8) pages. They should use the IEEE 10-point two-column format, templates for which are available at: http://www.computer.org/portal/web/cscps/home === Proceedings === A preliminary version of the proceedings will be distributed during the conference. The formal version of the proceedings will be published by the Conference Publishing Services (CPS) and sent to authors after the conference. For each accepted paper, at least one of the authors needs to attend the conference and deliver the presentation; otherwise the paper will not be included in the formal proceedings. === Dates === Submission of papers: October 8, 2010 Author notification: November 19, 2010 Camera-ready copy: December 19, 2010 Conference:January 18-20, 2011 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Crazy Idea
At Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:14:59 -0400, Chris Ball wrote: Hi, Some schools are getting iPod touches (??? is that the plural) for their elementary schools to use. Apple has a big push with this and has several demo projects going. I saw one at CUE in March. Very impressive! All they need to make it perfect is some Sugar Apps! Single user Sugar Activities in Python should be fairly easy to port. Smalltalk, no problem. Full collaboration would be a lot of work, due to its extensive use of Linux-specific libraries. Sounds like you're unfamiliar with Apple's ban on interpreted languages: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded or used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Documented APIs and built-in interpreter(s). Yes but there was an interesting movement in that area: http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/ Read the thread Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch. at: http://lists.esug.org/pipermail/esug-list_lists.esug.org/2010-June/thread.html and http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-June/thread.html -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Forward: [squeak-dev] Points of View - a tribute to Alan Kay
An interesting book. (The free PDF version is available on the site as well, but the book form is worth it if you're interested in the history of personal computing and education and books...) -- Yoshiki ---BeginMessage--- Folks, I am pleased to announce the latest publication from Viewpoints Research: Points of View -- a tribute to Alan Kay. This book, edited by Kim Rose and myself, is a collection of previously-unpublished essays written to celebrate Alan's 70th birthday. Twenty-nine luminaries from diverse disciplines contributed original material for this book, which was presented to Alan during a celebratory lunch earlier this week. A limited first edition of 100 copies has been printed of which 50 are being offered for a $125 donation to Viewpoints. Full details can be found here: http://vpri.org/pov Enjoy! Ian ---End Message--- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton praises OLPC in South America
At Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:00:25 +1300, Tim McNamara wrote: On 18 March 2010 08:45, Yama Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.com wrote: Panama? No mention of Haiti itself, alas. Politicians are only as good as their advisers. This is a really positive development, even if some facts are missed. Yup. And if she gave an impression to think that giving laptops to children in the disaster-hit country will solve their problems, it would be a political suicide. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton praises OLPC in South America
At Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:27:19 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yosh...@vpri.org wrote: And if she gave an impression to think that giving laptops to children in the disaster-hit country will solve their problems, it would be a political suicide. Do read Hillary's speech. It is actually pretty good, and the mention of OLPC is well framed amongst projects that can get LatAm countries into thriving societies (and economies). None of these projects will on its own turn around a region, but a smart combination of them, and serious work will. And this is visibly at work in many LatAm countries today. Me? Of course I did read it and I was agreeing with Tim that it is a positive development. I was responding to Yama's comment that he thought she could have gone further by mentioning the OLPC effort in Haiti but it simply was asking too much. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] help in scripting in etoy
At Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:28:02 +, Parichay Parivesh wrote: Hello, Can any one help in scripting with Etoy. I wan to make a matching game through for example match two if match then processed to forward or else say try again. and one more in which drag and drop is used for example correct name has to drag on correct if worn one dragged then it should bounce back on its original place. For your email on a problem with importing JPEG, you and I had some email correspondence to find out the solution, and I asked you to report the answer back to the mailing list so that people can share the knowledge (which was that Photoshop can make a JPEG file with CMYK colorspace and Etoys cannot handle it). But you didn't think it was worth doing? I tried to figure out with the script given etoy like test, drag and drop but it succeeds . As it is a part of my dissertation and I am running out of the So, guys I need your help. Please RASP People often ask: who is your advisor? to this kind of request... I think you got info on the similar projects by others. Did you look at them? If you can post an ongoing project for people to look at, there is a chance that some people do look at it and can give you suggestion, but without even such, you're just asking people to do the work for your dissertation... -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Problem with Etoy
At Sun, 7 Mar 2010 00:57:01 +, Parichay Parivesh wrote: Hello, I am having problem with Etoy. I created an image in Photoshop and i converted in jpg then drag into into Etoy but the moment image goes on Etoy it turn into black and white. I don't know how? To check I tried with different image downloaded for net or clicked by camera they work perfect and it doesn't convert into black and white. Please help me if any one know what I am doing wrong. Is it possible for me to see the image (or an image) that exhibits the problem? it is indeed odd especially with JPG which doesn't have color mapping, translucency or such potential cause... -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [etoys-dev] TED - Alan Kay - Example(8:44)
Gustavo, At Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:35:53 -0300, Gustavo Ibarra wrote: Hello everybody, I am trying to simulate the example Or This A^2+b^2=c^2 used by AK en the TED conference (8:44) but unfortunelly I am not arriving to the expected results. Does anybody know if the etoy project (I just need the example: A^2+b^2=c^2, not the complete presentation) is available in the web? Link TED - A powerful idea about ideas: http://www.ted.com/talks/alan_kay_shares_a_powerful_idea_about_ideas.html As Alan wrote, his version is just moving pieces around. You could create three squares in proper sizes, and four right triangles in the right size and try move them around. For some specific animating effect you would like to get... if you don't mind, perhaps you can upload your version somewhere so that we can take a look at it? -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sharing EToys projects
At Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:00:59 -0500, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: [1 multipart/signed (7bit)] [1.1 text/plain; ISO-8859-1 (quoted-printable)] Dave Bauer wrote: Do you happen to know what the mime type should be for Etoys to open it? The list of mime types that the eToys activity will open is at http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/etoys/tree/activity.info.in I'm sure one of the eToys expert can give you better advice than I on which mime type is preferred. application/x-squeak-project is the one typically associated with .pr files. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] GPA Class Notes August 5
At Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:12:10 -0400, Greg Smith wrote: Kids really wanted to play Scary Maze (http://www.google.com/#hl=enq=scary+maze+game+3aq=0oq=scary+maze+game+aqi=g10fp=flbC24gbdiA) but we said that wasn't available. I tried it via Flash later and it worked fine but I wasn't sure its really kid appropriate. I realized that they probably like it because of the adrenalin rush at being scared when you make a small mistake. I think Nintendo 64, Game Boy and other popular younger kid games also benefit from provoking the adrenalin response. I think Sugar could use more adrenalin provoking games I'm not following all the reports and missing bunch of context so this could be an off comment, but this kind of game is very easy to make in Etoys. (There was a Japanese game show with physical moving obstacles and the player holds a bar and is supposed to navigate the bar through the course... So kids who knew about the show wanted make it by themselves). -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] sugerencia para actividad clock
At Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:14:23 -0700, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: At Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:56:03 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: What about the clock in Etoys? Are you asking the maintainer of the clock done in Etoys? That one has more complicated eye candy but a teacher or a helper of the teacher should make one in 10 minutes or so. However, my point of making that clock was that each kid should make one to understand it. At the Squeakfest Brasil conference, Kathleen Smith conducted a tutorial session to make a clock in Etoys. Dozens of teachers from Brazil, Uruguay, Peru, etc. attended and making their own clocks. So hopefully the idea spreads in the continent... -- Yoshiki I don't subscribe the olpc-sur list. Please forward this to the list and connect the original person to these Squeakfest attendees. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] sugerencia para actividad clock
At Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:55:53 -0300, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: At Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:14:23 -0700, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: At Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:56:03 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: What about the clock in Etoys? Are you asking the maintainer of the clock done in Etoys? That one has more complicated eye candy but a teacher or a helper of the teacher should make one in 10 minutes or so. However, my point of making that clock was that each kid should make one to understand it. At the Squeakfest Brasil conference, Kathleen Smith conducted a tutorial session to make a clock in Etoys. Dozens of teachers from Brazil, Uruguay, Peru, etc. attended and making their own clocks. So hopefully the idea spreads in the continent... One more thing... In my version, I sort of cheated and used the premade digital clock object that is available in the Object Catalog-Just for Fun to get the system clock. If you just need to know the current time, you can pull out the object from catalog. Also, in various ways, you can come up with more arithmetic tricks to teach. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] sugerencia para actividad clock
At Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:56:03 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: What about the clock in Etoys? Are you asking the maintainer of the clock done in Etoys? That one has more complicated eye candy but a teacher or a helper of the teacher should make one in 10 minutes or so. However, my point of making that clock was that each kid should make one to understand it. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Squeakers documentary (was Re: Physics)
Very unfortunately, the Galileo moment when a girl pointed out the trick was edited out and not there in the DVD. Another TO DO would be to put that segment on the web also... It is up now. From: http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/ check it out: http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/movie.jsp?id=41 We would also like to have the volunteer effort to clean up the chapters, have ogg versions, etc: http://jira.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-37 -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Squeakers documentary (was Re: Physics)
At Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:33:14 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.07.2009, at 14:35, Alan Kay wrote: For example, one child Tyrone (shown in the Squeakers CD explaining all this) Squeakers is an award-winning documentary movie about teaching math and science using Etoys in the class room (made in 2002). It's in English and was subtitled by the Squeak community to quite a few languages, including Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Chinese and a few others. We gave out some DVDs at LinuxTag last week (you know who you are, care to comment once you've seen it? ;)). The individual chapters are available online http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/ (though not converted to OGG yet, which is on the To Do list I think) Very unfortunately, the Galileo moment when a girl pointed out the trick was edited out and not there in the DVD. Another TO DO would be to put that segment on the web also... -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Pangaean
At Wed, 20 May 2009 11:48:15 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: This project is in many ways complementary to Sugar: http://www.pangaean.org I'd like to know what people think about it. The software appears to be Windows based, but perhaps it's built with portable technologies. If not, we might want to pick up the basic idea of communicating through pictons. In the resources section, there are several academic papers on this research. As you already know, the heart of the Pangea project is not about the technology but very strong and energetic facilitation by adult. That is really worth learning from, I think. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Logic simulator
At Sun, 3 May 2009 22:09:57 +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: Noticed this Flash based logic simulator: http://joshblog.net/projects/logic-gate-simulator/Logicly.html Would be quite a simple sandbox activity to make (python, gtk+, ciaro); but before I burn time (well add to my future todos list), do teachers on this list think it is more than just a geeky play-thing, or does it have educational merit? At that level, it isn't really embarassing to mention that Etoys comes with one of such. The good news with that version is that all the rules are visible to the learner and new parts can be added by themselves. (It is kind of slow on XO, but people can make the graphics small, or just make one on different ideas...) -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] squeak/etoys accepted into Debian main
At Sat, 8 Nov 2008 07:03:28 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I lost you there: Do you mean to say that the intend of the Squeak license is to make sure a US company can earn money from selling Squeak to Cuba - and that the company is punished economically by Cubans instead stealing the free software? Or do you mean to say that it does not matter how a US company interacts with Cuba, it will get punished by the US government for doing so. What I mean is that no matter what a license says, if a US entity may get punished by the US goverment if the entity sells goods to Cuba because the US embargoes Cuba. I don't know if a US entity can give something to Cuba. I care about free flow of software. I care not for liberal abilities for economic profit. I care not about the money! My point wasn not about profit making or such. I do not know the Squeak license and its intend. If it intends to favor protection of the owner from punishment over the bloom and widespread use of the software itself, then most certainly I believe that adjusting the license to being DFSG-compliant has been a loss. The old Squeak License is not (will not be) used so it is irrelevant. But the original intention was of course to protect Apple from potential problem when somebody exports the Apple Software to embargoed countries. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar on Debian
At Sat, 8 Nov 2008 06:39:02 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Sorry, I did not realize the importance of your reference to _later_ discussion for your question. Well, from my writing, it is not clear at all. (In my head, it was so clear, though^^;) Sorry about that. Before I posted the above, I searched the public Debian archives and found nothing(!) relevant. So I suspect the general Debian community is completely unaware of tour hard work on relicensing Squeak, and the ftpmasters' decision to anyway judge it as non-free. As I said, it seems the discussion took place only discretely between José, Holger, Bert and ftpmasters. I is possible that new discrete discussions with ftpmasters emerged as result of (or independent from) the discussions here at IAEP and OLPC lists in June. Jim Gettys and I are Debian developers and followed those threads at IAEP and OLPC, but none of us are ftpmasters and I for one did not pass it on to other forums. Holgers published summary and his lack of different viewpoint when posting here yesterday, indicates no progress: Back in May ftpmasters recommended to openly discuss their decision at the main Debian developers' mailinglist [EMAIL PROTECTED] The words Squeak and Etoys matched no recent posts to that mailinglist. Holger clearly stated in his summary on june 13th that he does not intend to start discussing openly until after the release of Debian Lenny (which was frozen at some point in the summer and still is not ready for release). I recommend asking the other participants of that dicrete dialogue back in may if they know of any progress. Alternatively the mailinglist [EMAIL PROTECTED] is open for all, so you are free to initiate a discussion about the non-free status of Etoys (as an example, and Squeak images generally), and to raise attention to your relicensing work and the seemling lack of results. I do not have the mental resources or detailed knowhow on the topic to do so myself. Thank you for the suggestion. I'm so bad at emailing so I hesitate to dive in by myself... So, Bert, Holger, José, do you know if any progress made? ^^; -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Distributing Scratch - a summary
1. License. For Squeak generally this is an old, resolved issue. For Etoys, it is a resolved issue. 1. Availability of source code. This is an old misunderstanding. I believe noone currently think that source in unavailable - the issue is how to handle the available source (see below) Good. 2. Maintainability of code by downstream. 3. Security. This issue of distributor unfamiliarity with Squeak source is the issue still standing. It is very real: It is no misunderstanding that e.g. Debian ftpmasters (on behalf of Debian security team) admit that they are unfamiliar with patching Squeak objects and thus not confident that they can do so reliably. It is also no misunderstanding that Debian (and most probably distributions in general) want the ability to apply fixes to their maintained code independently from upstream. As Matthew pointed out (http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/002396.html), Debian can just apply their own fixes. So it sounds like there is only unfamiliarity issue, and it should be possible to resolve it. Action Item. Flesh out, and move this discussion to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will start that discussion with the participants of this thread cc:ed later this week. Excellent! Thank you, David! -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] squeak/etoys accepted as free software... (was Re: Sugar on Ubuntu - Summary
At Sat, 8 Nov 2008 01:32:49 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Part of the honest worry about these issues comes from very good reasons not to just trust everyone. But it also seems that e.g. Debian needs to widen its circle of trust to include experts in wider varieties of programming. There are plenty of trustworthy Smalltalkers and Squeakers, and there is absolutely no reason that some should not be on call to deal with perceived problems. If you mean that Debian ought to trust upstream to fix bugs and take care of security issues _instead_ of its own package maintainers, then I disagree: I believe *both* upstream and the distribution-specific routines should be applied in parallel. I think he just means that Etoys is no different from others. Etoys is just happened to be written in a different language and there are people who understands or can learn the language; none of what you wrote in this email suggests Etoys needs to be treated differently. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] squeak/etoys accepted into Debian main
At Sat, 8 Nov 2008 00:09:34 -0300 , Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote: My point was: is forbidding the export clause as part of the Open Source definition a practical concern or is it just a philosophical checkbox? I agree that it would not make sense to have one rule for Squeak and another for the 20K packages you mentioned. And it was the indenization clause that the Debian people objected to in any case, not the export one. So changing this aspect of the Open Source definition wouldn't have helped there. Because these clauses are now irrelevant (for Etoys and hopefully soon the mainstream Squeak from squeak.org), this point we don't really have to worry about. (In regards to whether it is just a philosophical checkbox, I tend to think so. If a company makes a product based on an open-source project and sells it to Cuba from the US, the company may be punished regardless what its license says.) I just want efforts like these (I contributed very little - just figured out who a couple of the developers were) to be rewarded by something actually changing as a result. The real change I would like to see is it just gets in these distros without much hoopla and emailing man-hours... -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar on Debian
At Sat, 8 Nov 2008 04:26:55 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 04:12:13PM -0800, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: At Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:45:00 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: The Squeak image Etoys (the only one currently packaged officially for Debian) is in non-free due to ftpmasters judging it not possible for the security team to maintain throughout the (multiple year long) lifespan of a Debian release. Is there anywhere I can read about their reasoning behind this judgement? Holger mentions it's because the impossibility to bootstrap etoys. but what exactly does that mean? That looks like a quote from a post by Holger in this thread. I believe he describes his judgement of current status better in his summary included with the Debian packaging of Etoys, that I quoted earlier in same thread: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/002340.html We had a similar discussion that covered the security aspect (http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-June/015568.html and emails around it). Can I see anywhere the responses to these from the Debian ftpmasters? It seems those discussions took place privately between José, Holger, Bert and the ftpmasters. I have only ever seen the final decision forwarded by Bert to the IAEP list: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-May/000699.html Right, the final decision looked like some misunderstanding involved. After this, more discussion took place: http://lists.lo-res.org/pipermail/its.an.education.project/2008-June/thread.html so I was wondering if there was some more updates based on the subsequent discussion. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] squeak/etoys accepted into Debian main
At Sat, 8 Nov 2008 05:56:39 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: (In regards to whether it is just a philosophical checkbox, I tend to think so. If a company makes a product based on an open-source project and sells it to Cuba from the US, the company may be punished regardless what its license says.) The Cuban government would not hardly buy an american commercial distillation of a FLOSS software product. Rather they would buy know-how on creating their own derivative distribution based directly on Debian, which is completely legal. Sure. That is (almost) my point. So whether the license wants to protect the original company like the Squeak License does, they can get the know-how. -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [sugar] Sugar on Edubuntu
At Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:53:11 -0800, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 06.11.2008, at 00:12, David Farning wrote: Do you know who I should talk to about requesting that http://www.squeak.org/SqueakLicense/ be update to reflect this information? Squeak (at squeak.org) and Etoys (at vpri.org / squeakland.org) are two different versions that were last merged at Squeak version 3.8. The full relicensing for now only applies to the Etoys version, but the squeak.org version will certainly follow soon. Yup. The license description for Etoys is available at: http://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki/index.php/Main_Page -- Yoshiki ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar DIgest 2008-09-22
At Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:49:56 +0200, Karl Ramberg wrote: repeat 4 (forward 100 right 90) right 45 forward sqrt ((100*100) + (100*100)) In Etoys it is pretty straight forward to make this script, look at attached picture. I lost the track of original ideas there, but one could make a project that looks like the attached picture also to avoid the square root. (After setting the origin-at-center switch of the Playfield.) But maybe that was not what they want to do. They later want to move on to non-square cases. The following Etoys project doesn't provide the proof of theorem, but you can type numbers at w = ... and h = ... and press the goAround button. It shows the length of the diagonal. http://dev.laptop.org/~yoshiki/etoys/Pythagoras.001.pr inline: 28.png___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
