Joel C. Ewing pisze:
On 06/23/2010 02:56 AM, R.S. wrote:
Schwarz, Barry A pisze:
Doesn't anyone exercise the DR plan anymore? If so, without reading
the backups?
[...]
Yes, really! PTAM to a remote secure vault, for transfer to appropriate
DR site in event of a disaster.
Provocation
We do DR restore from tape, and we restore over 20TB of data in 12
hours using 8 3592-E06 drives. After I have all the mainframe data
restored I get to wait for another day or two for the rest of the
platforms to be ready to go.
R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl 6/25/2010 5:47 AM
Joel C.
O, let's just cut to the chase.
Forget tape, forget disk, forget DR.
Just buy Business Continuity Insurance then if all is lost you just collect.
Of course, this assumes your insurer has not also experienced the same
interruption. or worse still that you are not so big that you trigger
Schwarz, Barry A pisze:
Doesn't anyone exercise the DR plan anymore? If so, without reading the
backups?
Of course we do! Does anyone use PTAM for DR? Really?
We use remoted copy for DR. We don't need to recover anything from tape,
because we have all the data on DASD. Oh, we do have tapes
SanDisk's SD card can store data for 100 years
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178428/SanDisk_s_SD_card_can_store_data_for_100_years
from above:
The WORM (write once, read many) card is tamper proof and data cannot
be altered or deleted, SanDisk said in a statement. The card is designed
In 890694.35414...@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com, on 06/20/2010
at 04:20 PM, Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com said:
From my (admittedly dated) perspective, until the ability to share
disk drives (transparently) I do not see the use of tape really
decreasing all that much.
What are you using tape for?
Of
Timothy Sipples
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Disk replacing Tape?
Ron Hawkins writes:
I guess you have listed all the reasons why one would use WORM
disk when replacing tape with disk.
Maybe not all the reasons, but I am
Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Anne Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
SanDisk's SD card can store data for 100 years
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article
...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Anne
Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
SanDisk's SD card can store data for 100 years
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178428/SanDisk_s_SD_card_can_store_data_for_100_years
from above
...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
I seemed to recall hearing that exact same claim for optical media
(microfiche, CD, DVD) :-)
And we all know that sales/marketing never lie or even exaggerate
--snip--
I seemed to recall hearing that exact same claim for optical media
(microfiche, CD, DVD) :-)
And we all know that sales/marketing never lie or even exaggerate :-)
But what about the support infrastructure? Will Windows 107
On 06/23/2010 02:56 AM, R.S. wrote:
Schwarz, Barry A pisze:
Doesn't anyone exercise the DR plan anymore? If so, without reading
the backups?
Of course we do! Does anyone use PTAM for DR? Really?
We use remoted copy for DR. We don't need to recover anything from tape,
because we have all
George Henke's post reminded me of one additional reason why many
organizations use tapes: it is very easy to physically isolate them from
any running programs on a routine basis.
It's rare (getting more common?), but it is possible for software to go
rogue, inadvertantly or intentionally. Let's
Schwarz, Barry A pisze:
Doesn't anyone exercise the DR plan anymore? If so, without reading the
backups?
Of course we do! Does anyone use PTAM for DR? Really?
We use remoted copy for DR. We don't need to recover anything from tape,
because we have all the data on DASD. Oh, we do have tapes
@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Disk replacing Tape?
George Henke's post reminded me of one additional reason why many
organizations use tapes: it is very easy to physically isolate them from
any running programs on a routine basis.
It's rare (getting more common?), but it is possible
@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
W dniu 2010-06-22 18:40, Hal Merritt pisze:
Most all backups are WORN. They are created, perhaps sent off site, and
returned to the scratch pool never having been read. An archival backup would
not be returned to scratch because it would most likely
In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:14:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rfocht...@ync.net writes:
forgotten anything or done anything that will bend the plan. Our DR
involves an alternate site on the other side of the campus.
Minimum separation 10 miles?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ed Finnell
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:14:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rfocht
Not possible due to financial considerations. Backup machine belongs to
a different department and I had to pull teeth to even get access to it.
Rick
-
Ed Finnell wrote:
In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:14:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Minimum separation 10 megatons ?.
I would have thought Katrina would have widened peoples perspective on
circumference of influence.
Shane ...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:18:36 EDT, Ed Finnell wrote:
forgotten anything or done anything that will bend the plan. Our DR
involves an alternate site
: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
Minimum separation 10 megatons ?.
I would have thought Katrina would have widened peoples perspective on
circumference of influence.
Shane ...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:18:36 EDT, Ed Finnell wrote:
forgotten
In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:32:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
steve_thomp...@stercomm.com writes:
When doing a DR test, are you married to the
recovery location? If you own the hot site then this question may not
apply.
IIRC got put in after a large Midwestern Insurance Company had
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:08:43 -0400, George Henke gahe...@gmail.com
wrote:
...
Just before cutover, the tape management system, IBM's RMM (Removable
Media
Management), inadvertently released 1000's of tapes to the SCRATCH pool
by
mistake.
...
Had that condition persisted 24 hours it would
Shane Ginnane pisze:
Minimum separation 10 megatons ?.
I would have thought Katrina would have widened peoples perspective on
circumference of influence.
The distance itself is not enough to assess DR location. Example Nile
and datacenters in Luxor and Cairo. 700km and stupid location of
I would have thought Katrina would have widened peoples perspective on
circumference of influence.
The only thing we learn from history is people fail to learn from history.
Look at the Y2K+10 problem; 10 years later and programmes are still failing for
exactly the same reason.
-
Too busy
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:08:43 -0400, George Henke gahe...@gmail.com
wrote:
...
Just before cutover, the tape management system, IBM's RMM (Removable
Media
Management), inadvertently released 1000's of tapes to the SCRATCH pool
by
mistake.
...
Had
--snip-
I would have thought Katrina would have widened peoples perspective on
circumference of influence.
The only thing we learn from history is people fail to learn from history.
Look at the Y2K+10 problem; 10 years
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:42:11 +, Linda Mooney
linda.lst...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Dave,
I have had experience with two different VTLs, both of which allowed
recovery of scratch volumes, we used TMS with both of them. The first was
an IBM 3494 ATL/VTS, the second a Bus-Tech virtual only
Ron Hawkins writes:
I guess you have listed all the reasons why one would use WORM
disk when replacing tape with disk.
Maybe not all the reasons, but I am pretty much describing write-once
media, at least logically. Whether it's disk or tape is another question,
but tape can inherently behave
: Monday, June 21, 2010 11:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
Have you considered burning CD-ROMs or DVDs for storage, rather than
tape? Drives can be less expensive, the media is dirt cheap compared to
tape and for historical purposes the result will probably last far
Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Dave Kopischke
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:44:10 -0700, Mark Yuhas
mark.yu...@paccar.com wrote:
Replacing tape with disk?
Sounds like a great
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
Interesting. Your experience is comparable to some cost
studies we did
On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 11:32 -0400, McKown, John wrote:
WORN = Write once, read never.
gee, if really WORN, then I'd suggest writting to DD DUMMY or /dev/null.
Back In The Day, we'd have used STC 8350.
--
For IBM-MAIN
Hal Merritt pisze:
Which flavor of CDROM or DVD are you referring to? The life expectancy of the media is one consideration, but also the availability of hardware to retrieve the data. I would submit that that is not predictable enough to entrust the family jewels.
The same apply to cheap tape
Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
McKown, John
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
W dniu 2010-06-22 18:40, Hal Merritt pisze:
Most all backups are WORN. They are created, perhaps sent off site, and
returned to the scratch pool never having been read. An archival backup would
not be returned to scratch because it would most likely exceed its expected
life while in storage.
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:41:19 +0200, R.S.
r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl wrote:
We observed very similar thing: vast majority of our backups are never
read! We work on eliminating those never-read backups. That could save
us a lot of resources. vbg
And pray to the almighty that some of them
Doesn't anyone exercise the DR plan anymore? If so, without reading the
backups?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
R.S.
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
W
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
W dniu 2010-06-22 18:40, Hal Merritt pisze:
Most all backups are WORN. They are created, perhaps sent off
In a message dated 6/22/2010 7:08:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
gahe...@gmail.com writes:
Needless to say there are also software reasons for eliminating tape.
What was the one a few years back where the last thing before a forced
catastrophic shutdown was SIM Alert-NVS battery has
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 08:55:19 +0300, Matan Cohen wrote:
we found that it will be the best solution for us is to backup our DATA to
disk and then send it to other more cheaper platform (windows) which will
manage the writing to tapes.
What format for transfer to Windows without loss of data?
AMATERSE takes to much time for us ... so we use XMIT .
the secret is to perform DFDSS relese to the DFDSS dump datasets before
running XMIT on them , this ensure the successful return of the datasets to
MAINFRAME .
the data isn't legible for Windown although there is some XMIT manager for
window
one idea we consider is to use Shai Hess product MFnetDisk (it is now
free)
to make a WINDOWS disk to be shown to the mainframe then to backup those
disk . MFnetdisk can also emulate tapes.
MFNetDisk supports Windows and Linux and Unix and more... attached disks.
You can dump and disks or files in
John,
Let me know how your proposal goes when you suggest that solution to your
management.
--
Eric Bielefeld
Systems Programmer
IBM MVS Technical Services
Dubuque, Iowa
563-845-4363
McKown wrote:
Long term data should be enscribed on granite and stored in the Egyptian
desert. This
Replacing tape with disk?
Sounds like a great idea - if you have a large enough DASD farm.
DR would be simpler, too - if you have a large communication pipe to
your DR site.
However, once the powers-that-be see the cost, tape doesn't seem so bad.
Rick Fochtman wrote:
Have you considered burning CD-ROMs or DVDs for storage, rather than
tape? Drives can be less expensive, the media is dirt cheap compared to
tape and for historical purposes the result will probably last far longer.
Rick
I don't know about that last. I seem to recall
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex R.
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 11:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
Rick,
I would hedge my bets on the CD-ROM or DVD long-term archival
...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 11:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
Have you considered burning CD-ROMs or DVDs for storage, rather than
tape? Drives can be less expensive, the media is dirt cheap compared to
tape
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote:
Over the last few years I have seen more and more
We will soon be starting a migration to eliminate physical tape. We have
chosen Luminex to emulate the tape drives and DataDomain to store and
deduplicate the data (claimed data reduction of 10x to 30x). We are a
small shop and the STK silo (Powderhorn) is at end of life. We have
about 30tb of
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:44:10 -0700, Mark Yuhas
mark.yu...@paccar.com wrote:
Replacing tape with disk?
Sounds like a great idea - if you have a large enough DASD farm.
DR would be simpler, too - if you have a large communication pipe to
your DR site.
However, once the powers-that-be see the
The issue was disputed several times on this forum and almost everyday
somewhere in the world. The conclusion remains unchanged:
1. Tape is still the best medium for backups, especially for big amounts
of data and good performance. Of course big and good is varying and
grows up every year. It
W dniu 2010-06-21 18:40, McKown, John pisze:
Long term data should be enscribed on granite and stored in the Egyptian
desert. This is proven technology!
Long term data should be recorded on MO device. MO = Magneto-Optical.
This is the best medium in term of reliability. There are no better
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:04:23 +0200, R.S.
r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl wrote:
Long term data should be recorded on MO device. MO = Magneto-Optical.
This is the best medium in term of reliability. There are no better ones
(excluding granite blocks kept on Egyptian desert).
The drawback is
On Monday 21 June 2010, McKown, John wrote:
Long term data should be enscribed on granite and stored in the
Egyptian desert. This is proven technology!
My goodness, is it Friday already?
--
Bob Woodside
Woodsway Consulting, Inc.
http://www.woodsway.com
Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating companies
are replacing tape drives with disk drives.
I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. However I am
seeing and hearing stories that the movement has started with mainframes. I was
wondering if
List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ed Gould
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Disk replacing Tape?
Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating
companies are replacing tape drives with disk drives.
I realize that most
On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote:
Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating companies
are replacing tape drives with disk drives.
I realize that most of the talk is from small computer users. However I
am seeing and hearing stories that the
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote:
Over the last few years
-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of John McKown
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Disk replacing Tape?
On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 16:20 -0700, Ed Gould wrote:
Over the last few years I have seen more and more articles stating
companies are replacing
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