-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:15:35 +0100, Lindy Mayfield
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:15:35 +0100, Lindy Mayfield wrote:
I was just amazed when I was in 3.4 and I had a list of all my datasets
based on the first HLQ of my userid and hit PF11. We've recently
installed z/OS 1.9.
Admittedly I'm easily amused, but I'd give this a coolness factor of
3.01296 out
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
11/29/2007
at 08:21 AM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
ISPF uses the basic TSO
facilities for terminal I/O (TPUT/TGET/TPG?).
Those facilities don't require you to wait for user input. You may need to
use macros beyond the one's you listed.
--
Shmuel
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 11/29/2007
at 06:52 AM, Walt Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
If you're really wondering why it's not better integrated, you should ask
on MVS-OE, instead,
Were IBM to implement an ISPF panel for running Unix commands, would it be
owned by ISPF or by OMVS? The former
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 11/29/2007
at 09:56 AM, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
This is a pervasive deficiency of TSO,
Don't confuse TSO with ISPF; the required facilities are there but ISPF
doesn't exploit them.
And I'll repeat my wish for background initiated foreground. x3270 is
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
11/29/2007
at 10:09 PM, Lindy Mayfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Then I was thinking, well it's just the nature of 3270
No, just the nature of ISPF.
But I have no idea where the ¢ key is
Consult the documentation for your 3270 simulator, or use something other
than ¢.
Of what value are such progress bars other than proving useless
animation can also be provided in TSO sessions? Those development
resources would better be working on real enhancements.
--
Peter Hunkeler
CREDIT SUISSE
--
For
On Dec 4, 2007 3:03 AM, Hunkeler Peter (KIUK 3)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of what value are such progress bars other than proving useless
animation can also be provided in TSO sessions? Those development
resources would better be working on real enhancements.
--
Peter Hunkeler
CREDIT
-Original Message-
[ snip ]
On Nov 30, 2007 3:15 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote:
I was just amazed when I was in 3.4 and I had a list of all my
datasets based on the first HLQ of my userid and hit PF11. We've
recently installed z/OS 1.9.
Admittedly I'm easily amused, but
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:15:35 +0100, Lindy Mayfield wrote:
I was just amazed when I was in 3.4 and I had a list of all my datasets
based on the first HLQ of my userid and hit PF11. We've recently
installed z/OS 1.9.
Admittedly I'm easily amused, but I'd give this a coolness factor of
3.01296 out
Progress bars are cool, but nothing new. They have been easy to code since
the CONTROL DISPLAY LOCK service was added to ISPF, back before the turn of
the century. Only takes a few lines of code.
That IBM would add something so flashy to ISPF *is* a surprise though.
On Nov 30, 2007 3:15 PM,
I usually run the TSO OMVS shell with auto-scrolling off. You
can set that at invocation (HELP OMVS for details) or use PF2
(subcommand) and type NOAUTO. Then if you ran into the same
situation you could use PF2 and QUIT. :-)
You should be able to use PF2 (entering OMVS Subcommand mode)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: 30. marraskuuta 2007 23:00
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
Character-drawn window popups? Yeah, this is some really cool UI
technology :-)
What next, a GDDM-rendered dog avitar that pops
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:16:32 -0600, McKown, John wrote:
DISPLAY=local.desktop export DISPLAY
oedit some.file
... and have a new, genuine x3270 window running ISPF/PDF pop
up on one's desktop? No need to enter user ID and password;
Now that sounds interesting! And I even understand
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
snip
And more on your perplexity about my
with a progress bar that
moves from 0 - 100 percent.)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: 30. marraskuuta 2007 7:21
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:20:49 -0600, Kirk Wolf wrote:
It is no doubt futile to try to reign in this thread, but many of the
responses have been very helpful to me. Thanks.
For me, key points are:
1) OMVS works in a pinch, but I'm not the only one that finds it painful.
OEDIT or OBROWSE commands
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
snip
It has also been mentioned a couple
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 08:43:38 -0600, McKown, John wrote:
It has also been mentioned a couple times in this thread that the
z/OS operator's 327x console is free of the half-duplex constraint:
the operator never needs to press ATTN before entering a command.
I'd be delighted to see an
@BAMA.UA.EDU]
On
Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: 30. marraskuuta 2007 7:21
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
It is no doubt futile to try to reign in this thread, but many of the
responses have been very helpful to me. Thanks
Roger Lowe wrote:
[...]
I thought there were some enhancements to ISPF in z/OS 1.9 that allowed
Edit/Browse of z/OS Unix files. I haven't quite got a z/OS 1.9 system up yet
to confirm or it could be that my memory is failing me !
AFAIK it is available for some time, maybe in 1.9 it is enhanced
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session to get a real
Unix shell on z/OS, but sometimes it is necessary or convenient to
use the TSO OMVS command.
Out of curiosity and to better understand your requirement, can you
give some examples of where it is necessary of convenient? I just
Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Lowe
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 8:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:50:21 -0600, Kirk Wolf
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
I thought it might be nice to write
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:50:21 -0600, Kirk Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session to get a real Unix
shell on z/OS, but sometimes it is necessary or convenient to the the TSO
OMVS command. It has always bothered me as to why this thing wasn't an
ISPF
Agreed - MVS-OE is a better place to discuss OMVS per se,
but I'm really more interested in understanding whether ISPF dialogs can
support pseudo-full-duplex 3270 processing - something like the MVS console.
Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
On Nov 29, 2007 6:52 AM, Walt Farrell [EMAIL
Chicklon, Tom wrote:
Just started testing with my 1.9 system, and yes, there is more
integration in ISPF to access zFS and HFS files.
For example, from ISPF Opt 2, you can now enter a UNIX file name:
ISPF Library:
Project . . . TE23
Group . . . . TEST . . . . . . .
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:13:25 +0100, R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Roger Lowe wrote:
[...]
I thought there were some enhancements to ISPF in z/OS 1.9 that allowed
Edit/Browse of z/OS Unix files. I haven't quite got a z/OS 1.9 system up yet
to confirm or it could be that my memory is failing me
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:50:21 -0600, Kirk Wolf wrote:
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session to get a real Unix
shell on z/OS, but sometimes it is necessary or convenient to the the TSO
OMVS command. It has always bothered me as to why this thing wasn't an ISPF
dialog so that you
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
snip
And I'll repeat my wish for background
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 9:21 AM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], McKown,
John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-snip-
I also don't much care for the UNIX shell on z/OS compared to bash on
Linux. But that last may just be that I'm not used to it.
The shell on USS is the same as on AIX. I never had the
Mark Post wrote:
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 9:21 AM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], McKown,
John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-snip-
I also don't much care for the UNIX shell on z/OS compared to bash on
Linux. But that last may just be that I'm not used to it.
The shell on USS is the same as
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
Mark Post wrote:
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: 29. marraskuuta 2007 15:32
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
Agreed - MVS-OE is a better place to discuss OMVS per se,
but I'm really more interested
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
Agreed - MVS-OE is a better place to discuss OMVS per se,
but I'm really more interested in understanding whether ISPF dialogs
can
support pseudo-full-duplex 3270 processing - something like the MVS
console
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
Lindy,
Can it accept input from a command area while do this?
In other words, rows would be added to the table as they arrived from the
shell stdout, but input would be accepted as well.
It would seem
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF?
snip
Then I was thinking, well it's just
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:09:08 +0100, Lindy Mayfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Funny, I was just looking again at OMVS which I rarely use unless I have to
cause I hate it. I did an ls -la /tmp/ without realizing that there were a
few thousand files there. It has been scrolling away for almost 10
Lindy Mayfield wrote:
Kirk,
That's an excellent point. I was actually thinking about that just after I answered -- how one might check for some sort of input to pause, stop or cancel things. I think it could probably be done somehow though. Still it would be a kludge and probably awkward.
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:03:23 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote:
I would be happy with a swap command to swap among omvs
How would that be different from the NextSess command
(PF9 by default)?
sessions and a different swap command to swap from an
omvs screen to the ISPF split screen sessions.
Now,
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:42:32 -0600, Patrick O'Keefe wrote:
I rarely do much Unixy stuff so what is comfortable for me is
probably far from what you want, but it sounds like ISHELL
addresses some of what you are asking for. It certainly doesn't
address the half-duplex nature of 3270 datastreams.
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Gilmartin) writes:
Anyone who believe that's a fundamental limitation of 3270
hardware that can't be worked around:
o Has never used
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:15:57 -0600, McKown, John wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why isn't OMVS command integrated
It is no doubt futile to try to reign in this thread, but many of the
responses have been very helpful to me. Thanks.
For me, key points are:
1) OMVS works in a pinch, but I'm not the only one that finds it painful.
OEDIT or OBROWSE commands get you back into an ISPF dialog so that you can
flip
I'm having fun with it and don't miss things I've never seen.
I'm just about in the same situation as you are. And, believe
it or not, I'm even having fun using vi :-) I'm far from being
a vi expert and I don't intent to become one, but, but I am able
to edit files in a plain UNIX shells, on
ESC=¢
But I have no idea where the ¢ key is nor how to stop it.
Don't you have the cent sign key on your keyboard? The ESC
in TSO OMVS is somewhat special. There is no way of sending
Ctrl-c (or any other control key) to the shell because 3270
simply does not support them. OMVS' workaround is
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session to get a real Unix
shell on z/OS, but sometimes it is necessary or convenient to the the TSO
OMVS command. It has always bothered me as to why this thing wasn't an ISPF
dialog so that you could split the screen, etc. Doesn't this bother anyone
Kirk Wolf wrote:
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session to get a real Unix
shell on z/OS, but sometimes it is necessary or convenient to the the TSO
OMVS command. It has always bothered me as to why this thing wasn't an ISPF
dialog so that you could split the screen, etc. Doesn't
Kirk Wolf wrote:
I normally use an ssh or (non-3270) telent session to get a real Unix
shell on z/OS, but sometimes it is necessary or convenient to the the TSO
OMVS command. It has always bothered me as to why this thing wasn't an ISPF
dialog so that you could split the screen, etc. Doesn't
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:50:21 -0600, Kirk Wolf
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
I thought it might be nice to write an OMVS replacement as an ISPF
dialog,
but it is not obvious to me that it is very easy to do...
What you would like is a multithreaded (multiple TCBs under z/OS)
ISPF
application -
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:22:02 -0600, Roger Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
I thought there were some enhancements to ISPF in z/OS 1.9 that allowed
Edit/Browse of z/OS Unix files. I haven't quite got a z/OS 1.9 system up yet
to confirm or it could be that my memory is failing me !
Just an
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:50:21 -0600, Kirk Wolf
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
I thought it might be nice to write an OMVS replacement as an ISPF
dialog,
but it is not obvious to me that it is very easy to do...
What you would like is a multithreaded (multiple TCBs under z/OS)
ISPF
application - one
I'm aware of ISHELL; its good for most things...common things like tail -f
don't work so well :-)
(gripe: the way that the current directory is managed (not) for sh and
ex commands is goofy )
Back to ISPF processing... of course 3270 is half-duplex, but many
applications can alternate between
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