Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-30 Thread Kirk Wolf
I'm reminded of a comment on slashdot (in 2004) that struck me as pretty funny: Rexx Is Still Strong After 25 years https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=101504=8653855 *Many of the world's

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-30 Thread John McKown
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Timothy Sipples wrote: > > John McKown was kind enough to compile Open Object REXX for z/OS UNIX > (thanks, John!): > > https://github.com/JohnArchieMckown/oorexx ​Hum, actually, no I didn't. I was going to work on it, just for fun. But

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-30 Thread Dave Jones
+1 DJ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-29 Thread scott Ford
Timothy, I agree with everything so far. As a real Rexx person on Rexx VM in the 80s I would also like see all items discussed here, noticeably performance, better storage management, more C like functions. I also use Oorexx and love it , especially on Linux. A common gui API for rexx or

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-28 Thread Timothy Sipples
David Crayford wrote: >REXX performance is terrible. OK, now we're starting to get somewhere! >It's used extensively on z/OS, a platform where CPU >consumption costs big bucks. 1. Start with REXX compilation. 2. How much is "extensively"? What is your resource consumption attributable to

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-28 Thread David Crayford
Timothy, To summarize: REXX performance is terrible. It's used extensively on z/OS, a platform where CPU consumption costs big bucks. In some environments like NetView IBM gave away the REXX compiler for free.  But like I mentioned the compiler has serious flaws. Some IBM products like

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-28 Thread David Crayford
On 28/10/2017 3:34 PM, Timothy Sipples wrote: David Crayford wrote: We want a JIT for classic REXX so it can run at speeds similar to compiled languages. Yes, but IBM already has the REXX Compiler and Library for Z: https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/compiler-and-library-for-rexx-on-ibm-z

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-28 Thread Timothy Sipples
David Crayford wrote: >We want a JIT for classic REXX so it can run >at speeds similar to compiled languages. Yes, but IBM already has the REXX Compiler and Library for Z: https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/compiler-and-library-for-rexx-on-ibm-z REXX is not just "similar" to compiled

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:32:31 -0500, John McKown wrote: >On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote: >> >> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/ >> com.ibm.zos.v2r2.izua700/izuprog_API_StartApp.htm > >​Interesting. But that starts a TSO address

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Kirk Wolf
FWIW, the service that z/OSMF uses for starting TSO address spaces is: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieac100/cea-intro.htm Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Jack J. Woehr
On 10/27/2017 10:32 AM, John McKown wrote: z/OSMF (which we don't run). I was more thinking of a Java package/library which would run a TSO command in the invoker's address space..​ There are many ways to exfoliate a feline. This sorta thing has been my main interest for some years. JTOpen

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread John McKown
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote: > On 10/27/2017 10:07 AM, David Crayford wrote: > >> But I >> don't see any Java library to invoke a TSO command. ​ >> > > https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/ >

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Jack J. Woehr
On 10/27/2017 10:07 AM, David Crayford wrote: But I don't see any Java library to invoke a TSO command. ​ https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.izua700/izuprog_API_StartApp.htm -- Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Rob Schramm
Sure.. the JNI portion is unavoidable. But wouldn't it depend on what was being done?.. is the switch back and forth worse than the whole unit as regular Rexx. And doesn't the additional capabilities of being able to use Java / utilities add enough value? Rob Schramm On Fri, Oct 27, 2017,

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread David Crayford
On 28/10/2017 12:02 AM, John McKown wrote: On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Rob Schramm wrote: Has anyone looked or asked the NetRexx guys if there is a way to use TSO type of commands in NetRexx? ​I can't see any way to run a TSO command using NetRexx. But, in a

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread John McKown
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Rob Schramm wrote: > Has anyone looked or asked the NetRexx guys if there is a way to use TSO > type of commands in NetRexx? > ​I can't see any way to run a TSO command using NetRexx. But, in a more general sense, I don't see any way to

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Rob Schramm
Has anyone looked or asked the NetRexx guys if there is a way to use TSO type of commands in NetRexx? Rob Schramm On Fri, Oct 27, 2017, 11:30 AM David Crayford wrote: > On 27/10/2017 11:18 PM, John McKown wrote: > >> Best post in this thread! We want a JIT for classic REXX

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread David Crayford
On 27/10/2017 11:18 PM, John McKown wrote: Best post in this thread! We want a JIT for classic REXX so it can run at speeds similar to compiled languages. ​I'd vote "for" that. Of course, the standard IBM response will be given: "How much are you willing to pay us to do that?" ​and "What do

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread David Crayford
3?mt=2 From: David Crayford <dcrayf...@gmail.com> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 27/10/2017 16:12 Subject: Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On 27/10/2017 9:47 PM, Walt Farrel

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread John McKown
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:12 AM, David Crayford wrote: > On 27/10/2017 9:47 PM, Walt Farrell wrote: > >> Did we somehow arrive at a generalized requirement to be able to access >>> particular TSO/ISPF features from*other* programming languages that are >>> not REXX, in a

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Martin Packer
/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 From: David Crayford <dcrayf...@gmail.com> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 27/10/2017 16:12 Subject: Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code Sent by:IBM Mainframe

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread David Crayford
On 27/10/2017 9:47 PM, Walt Farrell wrote: Did we somehow arrive at a generalized requirement to be able to access particular TSO/ISPF features from*other* programming languages that are not REXX, in a discussion about JITs, because of the functional utility some z/OS system programmers desire

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 08:47:16 -0500, Walt Farrell wrote: > >I think we arrived at this idea because someone suggested it would be nice if >the open-sourced JIT technology that started this thread could be applied to >REXX. Then someone else said we don't really need that, because NetREXX

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Walt Farrell
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:48:32 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote: >Did we somehow arrive at a generalized requirement to be able to access >particular TSO/ISPF features from *other* programming languages that are >not REXX, in a discussion about JITs, because of the functional

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread David Crayford
Agreed, that would be great. I've had a crack at porting ooRexx but the integration into TSO/ISPF was a major issue. Getting it to work outside of the z/OS UNIX file system is challenging as it doesn't use fopen(). It also uses threads which may interesting when running in TSO and especially

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Martin Packer
I’ve always said that what we need on TSO is Open ObjectREXX - but with the strong proviso it can be used as a drop-in for traditional REXX. That means: 1) It can script commands. 2) Things that invoke the REXX interpreter can invoke it in the same way. Note: I’m not sure NetRexx is actually

Re: IBM open sources its JVM and JIT code

2017-10-27 Thread Timothy Sipples
Peter Farley wrote: >IMHO it isn't "... consuming non-trivial peak resources running their REXX >scripts in TSO/ISPF" that is the issue for alternatives like Netrexx. OK, then what *is* the requirement? >It is the ability to use TSO facilities (like EXECIO, LISTDSI, etc.) and ISPF >utilities