Re: Who writes these things?

[Jon Perryman]

 > HTML is not only not object oriented, it is not even a procedural language.

Using developer tools in any browser will show you each object with the object 
attributes. HTML predefined all classes and the attributes associated with 
those classes (e.g. input, div, table, ...). These objects are javascript 
object compatible. Procedural functionality is provided by javascript.

> HTML does not specify activities, it specifies content and markup.

Forms and hyperlinks are activities. Most object types have "on" attributes 
which must specify a javascript function to be called. 
> CSS is *not* part of HTML

Prior to CSS, styling was HTML (e.g. ). Now, each object has a style= 
attribute to eliminate the HTML tags associated with styling. The 

Re: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

[David Staudacher]

Earliest reference yet to "ADS Xpediter" - October 26, 1981 (lower left of 
page):
http://books.google.com/books?id=1REkdf3I86oC=PA46

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Re: Trying to put three reports together with SORT

[Mike Schwab]

I would assume the DEPARTMENT and LOCATION tables are fairly static.
How about creating a table of each for your use?  Have a run to insert
/ update the records from the appropriate source.  Then you are left
with one job to parse the employees with these tables.  I think they
can even do this with one sort with three flat input files if you
want.

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:07 AM Billy Ashton  wrote:
>
> Hey everyone (and especially Kolusu):
> I have three different SQL reports that I am trying to use to create a
> consolidated report (it is not possible to do this in a single SQL pass for
> various processing and ownership reasons). I have been straining my brain
> trying to figure out how to PUSH the key fields into work areas of the
> record so they can sort in order, but I can't seem to come up with the
> right details.
>
> Here is the description:
> 1. These are all hierarchy reports, showing a relationship between a
> Division and Location, a Location and Department, and a Department and
> Employee. Every one of these entities can have one or more versions (we
> call them RecID), and the RecID is independent of the rest of the hierarchy
> - for instance, Division-rec1 r1 can have Location-rec1 r5 and
> Location-rec2 r3...each item has its own RecID.
> 2. Even though the RecID is independent, the relationship of the hierarchy
> is consistent. So if there is a Division-rec1 r1 with Location-rec1 r5,
> there will be a Location-rec1 r5 record with its 1 or more departments. And
> if there is a Location-rec1 r5 with a Department-rec1 r3, there will be a
> Department-rec1 r3 with its employees.
> 3. There are three reports: Division to Location, Location to Department,
> and Department to Employee. I would like to put these all together to show
> the hierarchy in an easier-to-read format, with every subordinate record
> listed with its superior record.
>
> Maybe an example is easier to understand...
> Given this input from concatenated reports (I have cut out a number of
> unrelated columns - this is only an excerpt):
> F_TP F_NAME   ... F_RECID T_TP T_NAMET_RECID START EMP_NO
> DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON1
> DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  PA-BERKS1
> LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON   1 DEP  PURCHASING  1
> LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  LEGAL   1
> LOC  PA-BERKS   2 DEP  LEGAL   2
> LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  SHIPPING1
> DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  JOE SMITH   1  1994 10021
> DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  BOB ABRAMS  1  2003 10438
> DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  APRIL LACOSTE   1  2004 31222
> DEP  LEGAL  1 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS1  2013 17284
> DEP  LEGAL  2 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS2  2013 17284
> DEP  LEGAL  2 EMP  ROSEMARY BLUE   2  2017 24318
> DEP  SHIPPING   1 EMP  ZIKAS HARIM 1  2015 29331
>
> I would like to see the output in this order:
> DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON1
> LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON   1 DEP  PURCHASING  1
> DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  JOE SMITH   1  1994 10021
> DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  BOB ABRAMS  1  2003 10438
> DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  APRIL LACOSTE   1  2004 31222
> DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  PA-BERKS1
> LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  LEGAL   1
> DEP  LEGAL  1 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS1  2013 17284
> LOC  PA-BERKS   2 DEP  LEGAL   2
> DEP  LEGAL  1 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS1  2013 17284
> DEP  LEGAL  2 EMP  ROSEMARY BLUE   2  2017 24318
> LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  SHIPPING1
> DEP  SHIPPING   1 EMP  ZIKAS HARIM 1  2015 29331
>
> So, for Div ORGANIC r1, there is a Loc NJ-HUNTERDON r1 and a Loc PA-BERKS
> r1. Then for the first NJ Loc r1, there is one Department PURCHASING r1,
> and in that department (r1) are three Employees. You can also see that for
> Loc PA-BERKS, there are two LEGAL Deparments - r1 and r2, and these
> departments have different employees.
>
> The columns here are found in these locations on the print records:
> col 2, length 3
> col 7, len 32
> col 41, len 4
> col 46, len 3
> col 50, len 32
> col 84, len 4
> col 96, len 4
> col 101, len 8
> The entire input record is 241 bytes long.
>
> The problem I have is how can I tie input record 1 to input rec 3, and
> input rec 3 to recs 7, 8, and 9? I need to be sure the From and To values
> between Hierarchy levels match on the name and the RecID. This small sample
> shows the challenge, and the total input is in the thousands, so I need to
> find a way to put this together.
>
> Thank you to Kolusu and anyone else who can direct me to the right solution.
>
> Billy
>
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Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

[David Spiegel]

Ah Nebach!

On 2019-09-24 17:23, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I could supply a rough equivalent, הזה איכפתלי, in Hebrew, but I know very 
> little Yiddish.
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb6fecf5e0b7d4f5a661708d7413581cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637049570405050380sdata=pP%2BNIrS8peLsUBp5XE9KbE6q4U%2FMQ6E0o%2BEMwvQCcHE%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> David Spiegel 
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 8:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>
> Maybe, you could supply the original expression, Chotsh?
>
> On 2019-09-23 18:28, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> ObPedant "I could care less?"
>>
>> "I could care less." is the result of translating an ironic question in 
>> Yiddish into a meaningless statement in English, probably because somebody 
>> had a tin ear and didn't pick up on the inflection indicating that it was a 
>> question.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb6fecf5e0b7d4f5a661708d7413581cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637049570405050380sdata=pP%2BNIrS8peLsUBp5XE9KbE6q4U%2FMQ6E0o%2BEMwvQCcHE%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
>> Phil Smith III 
>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 4:04 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>>
>> Charles Mills wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting article even if you could care less about the IBM i (AS/400 for 
>>> anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 20 years).
>>
>> "couldn't care less" :)
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, just to be irritatingly pedantic: IBM i is not really AS/400. It's what 
>> AS/400 developed into, but it refers to the current generation of the AS/400 
>> OS (formerly OS/400) running on IBM Power. From Wikipedia:
>>
>> IBM i is an operating system that runs on IBM Power Systems and IBM 
>> PureSystems. It was named OS/400 when it was introduced with the AS/400 line 
>> of computer systems in 1988, was later renamed i5/OS, and was renamed IBM i 
>> in 2008 when IBM Power Systems was introduced.
>>
>>
>>
>> So it's confusing, because "AS/400" begat "iSeries" begat "System i" begat 
>> "IBM i", only IBM i implies "on Power", whereas the others imply "on bespoke 
>> hardware". Sort of as if Apple had renamed Mac OS to macOS when they went to 
>> Intel hardware (which is not when they did that).
>>
>>
>>
>> This doesn't really matter nowadays, since anything old enough to be 
>> pre-Power is very obsolete, but it's sorta interesting. I find that 
>> customers still say "AS/400"; none of the "i" names appear to have ever 
>> really caught on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Related: It's "IBM Power", not "PowerPC". PowerPC is the very old precursor 
>> to the current generation; this is much like saying your shiny new ThinkPad 
>> has a 386-it's sorta kinda in the neighborhood, but really just wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Signed,
>>
>> Mr. Pedantic
>>
>>
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>>
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>

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Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

[Seymour J Metz]

I could supply a rough equivalent, הזה איכפתלי, in Hebrew, but I know very 
little Yiddish.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Spiegel 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 8:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

Maybe, you could supply the original expression, Chotsh?

On 2019-09-23 18:28, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> ObPedant "I could care less?"
>
> "I could care less." is the result of translating an ironic question in 
> Yiddish into a meaningless statement in English, probably because somebody 
> had a tin ear and didn't pick up on the inflection indicating that it was a 
> question.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7Cac626ebb1afb4247665608d740757243%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637048745527292386sdata=r2SOqQNRVpB4yAxTR%2FeCjZUw0RFjYBIyo%2BZTOt%2B73pE%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Phil Smith III 
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 4:04 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>
> Charles Mills wrote:
>
>> Interesting article even if you could care less about the IBM i (AS/400 for 
>> anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 20 years).
>
>
> "couldn't care less" :)
>
>
>
> BTW, just to be irritatingly pedantic: IBM i is not really AS/400. It's what 
> AS/400 developed into, but it refers to the current generation of the AS/400 
> OS (formerly OS/400) running on IBM Power. From Wikipedia:
>
> IBM i is an operating system that runs on IBM Power Systems and IBM 
> PureSystems. It was named OS/400 when it was introduced with the AS/400 line 
> of computer systems in 1988, was later renamed i5/OS, and was renamed IBM i 
> in 2008 when IBM Power Systems was introduced.
>
>
>
> So it's confusing, because "AS/400" begat "iSeries" begat "System i" begat 
> "IBM i", only IBM i implies "on Power", whereas the others imply "on bespoke 
> hardware". Sort of as if Apple had renamed Mac OS to macOS when they went to 
> Intel hardware (which is not when they did that).
>
>
>
> This doesn't really matter nowadays, since anything old enough to be 
> pre-Power is very obsolete, but it's sorta interesting. I find that customers 
> still say "AS/400"; none of the "i" names appear to have ever really caught 
> on.
>
>
>
> Related: It's "IBM Power", not "PowerPC". PowerPC is the very old precursor 
> to the current generation; this is much like saying your shiny new ThinkPad 
> has a 386-it's sorta kinda in the neighborhood, but really just wrong.
>
>
>
> Signed,
>
> Mr. Pedantic
>
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
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> .
>


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Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

[Seymour J Metz]

The expression "not one prutah" was still used in the last quarter of the 20th 
Century. See .


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Spiegel 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 8:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

R'Shmuel,
You're mixing monetary systems.
P'rutah was used in Babylonia approximately 2000 years ago, Agorah/Lira
was used last century.

On 2019-09-23 18:57, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Well, in Hebrew it would be (translated) "He doesn't have even a prutah, 
> where a prutah is a tenth of an agorah and an agorah is a hundredth of a 
> lira; at the time, a lira was worth less than a dollar, so you're looking at 
> just under a mill of wealth.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7C467bb33489c54dedce0708d740796d93%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637048762606308009sdata=2yHLjVcXd%2B9Rn%2FXo%2BRynbH8iNaR4qHpSJL0kJ4fQvj0%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Jesse 1 Robinson 
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 6:48 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>
> Thanks for the Yiddish twist. I can hear these phrases echo from my New York 
> origin in-laws. On a different tack:
>
> "He doesn't have a red cent to his name." (Or farthing if you're on that side 
> of the pond.)
>
> Suppose we scrounged through his pockets and found that he did indeed have a 
> red cent (or farthing). Would that sum render him substantially more solvent? 
> There's something about the phraseology that takes it out of the realm of 
> simple finance.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> zMan
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 3:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>
> So you're saying it was translated...carelessly?
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:29 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
>> ObPedant "I could care less?"
>>
>> "I could care less." is the result of translating an ironic question
>> in Yiddish into a meaningless statement in English, probably because
>> somebody had a tin ear and didn't pick up on the inflection indicating
>> that it was a question.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7C467bb33489c54dedce0708d740796d93%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637048762606308009sdata=2yHLjVcXd%2B9Rn%2FXo%2BRynbH8iNaR4qHpSJL0kJ4fQvj0%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
>> behalf of Phil Smith III 
>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 4:04 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>>
>> Charles Mills wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting article even if you could care less about the IBM i
>>> (AS/400
>> for anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 20 years).
>>
>>
>>
>> "couldn't care less" :)
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, just to be irritatingly pedantic: IBM i is not really AS/400.
>> It's what AS/400 developed into, but it refers to the current
>> generation of the
>> AS/400 OS (formerly OS/400) running on IBM Power. From Wikipedia:
>>
>> IBM i is an operating system that runs on IBM Power Systems and IBM
>> PureSystems. It was named OS/400 when it was introduced with the
>> AS/400 line of computer systems in 1988, was later renamed i5/OS, and
>> was renamed IBM i in 2008 when IBM Power Systems was introduced.
>>
>>
>>
>> So it's confusing, because "AS/400" begat "iSeries" begat "System i"
>> begat "IBM i", only IBM i implies "on Power", whereas the others imply
>> "on bespoke hardware". Sort of as if Apple had renamed Mac OS to macOS
>> when they went to Intel hardware (which is not when they did that).
>>
>>
>>
>> This doesn't really matter nowadays, since anything old enough to be
>> pre-Power is very obsolete, but it's sorta interesting. I find that
>> customers still say "AS/400"; none of the "i" names appear to have
>> ever really caught on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Related: It's "IBM Power", not "PowerPC". PowerPC is the very old
>> precursor to the current generation; this is much like saying your
>> shiny new ThinkPad has a 386-it's sorta kinda in the neighborhood, but
>> really just wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Signed,
>>
>> Mr. Pedantic
>
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Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

[Seymour J Metz]

?הזה איכפת לי

Hebrew, not English, and spelling not guarantied.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Spiegel 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 8:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

It sounds more emphatic in Yiddish: "Nu, Vu Den?!"

On 2019-09-23 18:57, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> What else?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb9862a1cb26442eb200c08d74079814c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637048762965936071sdata=9iDcSDFxX1cFk%2F9X%2FLOE%2BtHy2JjWd9QGAIzW3D9leso%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> zMan 
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 6:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>
> So you're saying it was translated...carelessly?
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:29 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
>> ObPedant "I could care less?"
>>
>> "I could care less." is the result of translating an ironic question in
>> Yiddish into a meaningless statement in English, probably because somebody
>> had a tin ear and didn't pick up on the inflection indicating that it was a
>> question.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb9862a1cb26442eb200c08d74079814c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637048762965936071sdata=9iDcSDFxX1cFk%2F9X%2FLOE%2BtHy2JjWd9QGAIzW3D9leso%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
>> of Phil Smith III 
>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 4:04 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective
>>
>> Charles Mills wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting article even if you could care less about the IBM i (AS/400
>> for anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 20 years).
>>
>>
>>
>> "couldn't care less" :)
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, just to be irritatingly pedantic: IBM i is not really AS/400. It's
>> what AS/400 developed into, but it refers to the current generation of the
>> AS/400 OS (formerly OS/400) running on IBM Power. From Wikipedia:
>>
>> IBM i is an operating system that runs on IBM Power Systems and IBM
>> PureSystems. It was named OS/400 when it was introduced with the AS/400
>> line of computer systems in 1988, was later renamed i5/OS, and was renamed
>> IBM i in 2008 when IBM Power Systems was introduced.
>>
>>
>>
>> So it's confusing, because "AS/400" begat "iSeries" begat "System i" begat
>> "IBM i", only IBM i implies "on Power", whereas the others imply "on
>> bespoke hardware". Sort of as if Apple had renamed Mac OS to macOS when
>> they went to Intel hardware (which is not when they did that).
>>
>>
>>
>> This doesn't really matter nowadays, since anything old enough to be
>> pre-Power is very obsolete, but it's sorta interesting. I find that
>> customers still say "AS/400"; none of the "i" names appear to have ever
>> really caught on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Related: It's "IBM Power", not "PowerPC". PowerPC is the very old
>> precursor to the current generation; this is much like saying your shiny
>> new ThinkPad has a 386-it's sorta kinda in the neighborhood, but really
>> just wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Signed,
>>
>> Mr. Pedantic
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>> --
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>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
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>


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ing not guarantied.
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Re: Who writes these things?

[Seymour J Metz]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” 

HTML is not only not object oriented, it is not even a procedural language. 
HTML does not specify activities, it specifies content and markup. CSS is 
likewise not a scripting language.

We now consider JavaScript to be a separate language because it *is* a separate 
language, and that has nothing to do with NODEJS. JavaScript is no more part of 
HTML than any other scripting language, e.g., Perl.

Who is the  "they" in "their definition"? The first hit I get on a search is "a 
single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to 
perform a particular task.", which matches the way the word has been used since 
the 1950s, although it does not match "keyboard macro." The C preprocessor, 
although brain dead, does match that definition; the instruction definitions in 
PoOps do not.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Jon 
Perryman 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 3:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Who writes these things?

 > On Monday, September 23, 2019, 03:35:42 PM PDT, Seymour J Metz wrote:

> Indeed, but HTML is not one of them. HTML has syntax for encapsulating a
> script in some other language, but it is not in itself a scripting language.


 Actually, HTML is a scripting language and object oriented. Certainly not the 
best example but it does qualify.

First, HTML is a run time language that primarily causes the specified 
activities to occur within a web browser.

Second, CSS scripting features are not obvious. An easily understood example is 
the mouse hover feature. It also has nth, even / odd and other features that 
are intended to reduce the usage of javascript.

Third, we now consider javascript to be a separate language because of NODEJS 
but it was originally developed specifically for HTML. Just because the syntax 
is radically different doesn't mean it can't be considered part of HTML.

A terminology debate is futile because Unix ensures that terminology is so 
vague that you can justify anything. E.g. "Robotic Operating System" (ros.org) 
requires a real OS on each computer but technically does coordinate among all 
hardware within a robot. I never realized that sysplex is actually an OS.

Look up the word "macro" for the epitome of vague and all encompassing which is 
why C has macro's instead of substitution language (think copybook that can be 
used many times in a single program). By their definition, the IBM POP is full 
of macros instead of instructions. Are programming languages actually macro 
languages? How many macro's are in this Email?

Even new terminology such as Cloud, AI, and Machine Learning are changed to 
meet what we can do instead of what it should be. Look at the original cloud 
specification and you will realize they were talking about z/OS. Look at it 
today and you won't recognize it any more because Unix could not meet those 
requirements. z/OS is still a cloud environment but now many other products are 
able to compete with z/OS for the cloud title.

Jon.

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Re: preprocessor directives XL C\C++

[Joseph Reichman]

Thanks 



Joe Reichman
170-10 73 rd ave 
Fresh meadows NY 11366

On Sep 24, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:

>> On Sunday, September 22, 2019, 02:26:31 PM PDT, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> 
>> In visual studio property pages you can specify preprocessor directives but
> 
>> Iyou say __MVS__  
> 
>> Is built-in you answered my question  
> 
> 
> While builtin macro __MVS__ resolves this specific situation, you may 
> eventually need to define macro's on the exec statement with 
> DEFINE(xxx,yyy,).
> 
> Jon.  
> 
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Re: Who writes these things?

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:32 PM, Jon Perryman  wrote:
> 
> 
>  Actually, HTML is a scripting language and object oriented. Certainly not 
> the best example but it does qualify.
> 
> First, HTML is a run time language that primarily causes the specified 
> activities to occur within a web browser. 
> 
> Second, CSS scripting features are not obvious. An easily understood example 
> is the mouse hover feature. It also has nth, even / odd and other features 
> that are intended to reduce the usage of javascript.
> 
> Third, we now consider javascript to be a separate language because of NODEJS 
> but it was originally developed specifically for HTML. Just because the 
> syntax is radically different doesn't mean it can't be considered part of 
> HTML.  
> 

I’m going to push back on this. HTML is *not* a scripting language, it is (as 
its name says) a markup language: a way to annotate human-readable text for 
computer processing. CSS is *not* part of HTML, it’s a styling language (that 
has acquired a few script-like constructs over the years.) Javascript was 
always a separate language, a scripting language, even if its primary original 
use case was manipulating HTML in a browser.

One of the strengths of the web is the way you can separate concerns: HTML for 
the structure and semantics of a document, CSS for specifying appearance, and 
Javascript for dynamic modification where needed. Let’s not confuse them.


-- 
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu






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Re: preprocessor directives XL C\C++

[Jon Perryman]

 > On Sunday, September 22, 2019, 02:26:31 PM PDT, Joseph Reichman wrote:
 
 > In visual studio property pages you can specify preprocessor directives but

> Iyou say __MVS__  

> Is built-in you answered my question  


While builtin macro __MVS__ resolves this specific situation, you may 
eventually need to define macro's on the exec statement with 
DEFINE(xxx,yyy,).

Jon.  

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Re: Who writes these things?

[Jon Perryman]

 > On Monday, September 23, 2019, 03:35:42 PM PDT, Seymour J Metz wrote:
 
> Indeed, but HTML is not one of them. HTML has syntax for encapsulating a 
> script in some other language, but it is not in itself a scripting language. 


 Actually, HTML is a scripting language and object oriented. Certainly not the 
best example but it does qualify.

First, HTML is a run time language that primarily causes the specified 
activities to occur within a web browser. 

Second, CSS scripting features are not obvious. An easily understood example is 
the mouse hover feature. It also has nth, even / odd and other features that 
are intended to reduce the usage of javascript.

Third, we now consider javascript to be a separate language because of NODEJS 
but it was originally developed specifically for HTML. Just because the syntax 
is radically different doesn't mean it can't be considered part of HTML.  

A terminology debate is futile because Unix ensures that terminology is so 
vague that you can justify anything. E.g. "Robotic Operating System" (ros.org) 
requires a real OS on each computer but technically does coordinate among all 
hardware within a robot. I never realized that sysplex is actually an OS.

Look up the word "macro" for the epitome of vague and all encompassing which is 
why C has macro's instead of substitution language (think copybook that can be 
used many times in a single program). By their definition, the IBM POP is full 
of macros instead of instructions. Are programming languages actually macro 
languages? How many macro's are in this Email?

Even new terminology such as Cloud, AI, and Machine Learning are changed to 
meet what we can do instead of what it should be. Look at the original cloud 
specification and you will realize they were talking about z/OS. Look at it 
today and you won't recognize it any more because Unix could not meet those 
requirements. z/OS is still a cloud environment but now many other products are 
able to compete with z/OS for the cloud title.

Jon.  

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Softcopy Librarian and V2R3

[Pierre Fichaud]

I created a new repository (V2R3) with different directories for shelves, PDFs, 
indexes, etc.
I sent the source (Internet) to the repository (V2R3).
It took about 30 minutes.
When I drill into the repository, I have 3 tabs: Shelves, Files, Knowledge 
Center Content.
The first 2 are empty.
The 3rd has zip files for each of the bookshelves.
How do I get these files unzipped with the shelves created and propagated with 
the books?

Did I do something wrong when defining directories for the PDFs, Shelves, etc ?
Or maybe the send didn't work ?

I am using V5.1.1 of the Softcopy Librarian.

Regards, Pierre.

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Re: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

[Lester, Bob]

 
 Indeed.  Browsing SLXTLOAD (for XP/TSO), there are many members starting 
with ADS*.   

 Coincidence?

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Dave Cole
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 1:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

"ADS" (pronounced "A-D-S") was the acronym for "Application Development 
Systems, Inc". I remember that company, but it no longer exists, and the name 
was so generic that Google searches come up with a lot of hits, none of which 
are on point.

Dave Cole






At 9/24/2019 02:56 PM, David Staudacher wrote:
>I'm trying to nail down the origin of Xpediter.
>We all know it is now exclusively marketed by Compuware, but was
>this*always* the case?
>I find *multiple* Computerworld articles from the mid-80s with ads by 
>"Application Development Systems, Inc" promoting an IBM Mainframe 
>Batch/TSO/VM/CICS debugging product called "Xpediter".
>
>For examples, see:
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__books.google.com_bo
>oks-3Fid-3DmXEbp4U3AT8C-26pg-3DPA103=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ&
>r=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=Nr5HkGfzQUidsSzPW4utRCB
>wuOPi3LD30HRRUt2vEBQ=aMRPQ-ZcKEXZA5RRIR10Hn07_USSea7jTweKgoP6l6Y=
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__books.google.com_bo
>oks-3Fid-3D0OuJCcQkEzEC-26pg-3DPA10-2DIA29=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmL
>IuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=Nr5HkGfzQUidsSzPW
>4utRCBwuOPi3LD30HRRUt2vEBQ=x7rtwv4nr8-NxxZGUpG7nUXSyTzkCJLprKSuNXU9DI
>M= 
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__books.google.com_bo
>oks-3Fid-3Da8FBzsfoBZEC-26pg-3DPA87=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ
>=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=Nr5HkGfzQUidsSzPW4utRCBw
>uOPi3LD30HRRUt2vEBQ=fnAPn5xvQqElXHripIjIg-R7enC8l3_FBcguyKdNcpg=
>None of these ads give *any* indication that Xpediter is a Compuware 
>product, yet the description *clearly* matches the Compuware product we 
>all know.
>Was this a product which Compuware later acquired?
>( I doubt this, as I find other pages which say Compuware launched 
>Xpediter v1.0 some time in the '70s ) Was this a true competing product 
>from a *different* vendor which just happened to have the same name as 
>the famous Compuware product?
>( I doubt this as I'm sure Compuware would have filed a lawsuit for 
>trademark infrigement but I can't find any evidence that such a suit 
>was ever filed) Was "Application Development Systems" a licensee which 
>sold Xpediter independently?
>( This seems most likely, yet I can find no evidence to conclusively 
>support this )
>
>Anyone here know the skinny on this?
>Gregory Kurtz??
>
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>email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

[Dave Cole]

"ADS" (pronounced "A-D-S") was the acronym for "Application 
Development Systems, Inc". I remember that company, but it no longer 
exists, and the name was so generic that Google searches come up with 
a lot of hits, none of which are on point.


Dave Cole






At 9/24/2019 02:56 PM, David Staudacher wrote:

I'm trying to nail down the origin of Xpediter.
We all know it is now exclusively marketed by Compuware, but was 
this*always* the case?
I find *multiple* Computerworld articles from the mid-80s with ads 
by "Application Development Systems, Inc" promoting an IBM Mainframe 
Batch/TSO/VM/CICS debugging product called "Xpediter".


For examples, see:
http://books.google.com/books?id=mXEbp4U3AT8C=PA103
http://books.google.com/books?id=0OuJCcQkEzEC=PA10-IA29
http://books.google.com/books?id=a8FBzsfoBZEC=PA87
None of these ads give *any* indication that Xpediter is a Compuware 
product, yet the description *clearly* matches the Compuware product 
we all know.

Was this a product which Compuware later acquired?
( I doubt this, as I find other pages which say Compuware launched 
Xpediter v1.0 some time in the '70s )
Was this a true competing product from a *different* vendor which 
just happened to have the same name as the famous Compuware product?
( I doubt this as I'm sure Compuware would have filed a lawsuit for 
trademark infrigement but I can't find any evidence that such a suit 
was ever filed)
Was "Application Development Systems" a licensee which sold Xpediter 
independently?
( This seems most likely, yet I can find no evidence to conclusively 
support this )


Anyone here know the skinny on this?
Gregory Kurtz??

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Re: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Based on personal experience, CA's business model in those days was to buy up 
software companies with successful products, hire only the minimum necessary 
number of senior developers of the product from the purchased company, and then 
sell, sell, sell.

Intertest, for example, was developed by Online Software International, 
Librarian by ADR, and Panvalet by Pansophic, and they have all now long been CA 
products with the originating companies dissolved and disappeared.

Would not be at all surprised if Xpeditor started elsewhere and was bought by 
CA.  OTOH they did actually develop some of their own software but AFAIK not 
the majority of what they sold, so that could be true as well.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Staudacher
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

I'm trying to nail down the origin of Xpediter.  
We all know it is now exclusively marketed by Compuware, but was this*always* 
the case? 
I find *multiple* Computerworld articles from the mid-80s with ads by 
"Application Development Systems, Inc" promoting an IBM Mainframe 
Batch/TSO/VM/CICS debugging product called "Xpediter".   

For examples, see: 
http://books.google.com/books?id=mXEbp4U3AT8C=PA103
http://books.google.com/books?id=0OuJCcQkEzEC=PA10-IA29
http://books.google.com/books?id=a8FBzsfoBZEC=PA87
None of these ads give *any* indication that Xpediter is a Compuware product, 
yet the description *clearly* matches the Compuware product we all know. 
Was this a product which Compuware later acquired? 
( I doubt this, as I find other pages which say Compuware launched Xpediter 
v1.0 some time in the '70s ) Was this a true competing product from a 
*different* vendor which just happened to have the same name as the famous 
Compuware product?
( I doubt this as I'm sure Compuware would have filed a lawsuit for trademark 
infrigement but I can't find any evidence that such a suit was ever filed) Was 
"Application Development Systems" a licensee which sold Xpediter independently? 
( This seems most likely, yet I can find no evidence to conclusively support 
this )

Anyone here know the skinny on this?  
Gregory Kurtz?? 
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Re: Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

[Lester, Bob]

Anything interesting if browse the load modules for eye-catchers?

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Staudacher
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 12:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

I'm trying to nail down the origin of Xpediter.  
We all know it is now exclusively marketed by Compuware, but was this*always* 
the case? 
I find *multiple* Computerworld articles from the mid-80s with ads by 
"Application Development Systems, Inc" promoting an IBM Mainframe 
Batch/TSO/VM/CICS debugging product called "Xpediter".   

For examples, see: 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3DmXEbp4U3AT8C-26pg-3DPA103=DwIFaQ=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=HdPIldRlHebeiifeMV746jLuOFfkLpQlnrOFSUO7-Qo=lftViEdbVmht-GILwYVc3YK5rJTprzihYuw-QEWv9d0=
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3D0OuJCcQkEzEC-26pg-3DPA10-2DIA29=DwIFaQ=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=HdPIldRlHebeiifeMV746jLuOFfkLpQlnrOFSUO7-Qo=YfcTDUU562Lgsw5j-AqOh_-3Tio9z75GwEUhoKmJplQ=
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3Da8FBzsfoBZEC-26pg-3DPA87=DwIFaQ=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=HdPIldRlHebeiifeMV746jLuOFfkLpQlnrOFSUO7-Qo=rtqicfn32ObVPcWRmOps3mgyuXLMY7FyLs8nmRYlCFE=
None of these ads give *any* indication that Xpediter is a Compuware product, 
yet the description *clearly* matches the Compuware product we all know. 
Was this a product which Compuware later acquired? 
( I doubt this, as I find other pages which say Compuware launched Xpediter 
v1.0 some time in the '70s ) Was this a true competing product from a 
*different* vendor which just happened to have the same name as the famous 
Compuware product?
( I doubt this as I'm sure Compuware would have filed a lawsuit for trademark 
infrigement but I can't find any evidence that such a suit was ever filed) Was 
"Application Development Systems" a licensee which sold Xpediter independently? 
( This seems most likely, yet I can find no evidence to conclusively support 
this )

Anyone here know the skinny on this?  
Gregory Kurtz??

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and/or privileged material.  It is intended solely for the 
person(s) or entity to which it is addressed.  Any review, 
retransmission, dissemination, or taking of any action in
reliance upon this information by persons or entities other 
than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited.  If you received 
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
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Xpediter: Same Debugger from Competing Vendors???

[David Staudacher]

I'm trying to nail down the origin of Xpediter.  
We all know it is now exclusively marketed by Compuware, but was this*always* 
the case? 
I find *multiple* Computerworld articles from the mid-80s with ads by 
"Application Development Systems, Inc" promoting an IBM Mainframe 
Batch/TSO/VM/CICS debugging product called "Xpediter".   

For examples, see: 
http://books.google.com/books?id=mXEbp4U3AT8C=PA103
http://books.google.com/books?id=0OuJCcQkEzEC=PA10-IA29
http://books.google.com/books?id=a8FBzsfoBZEC=PA87
None of these ads give *any* indication that Xpediter is a Compuware product, 
yet the description *clearly* matches the Compuware product we all know. 
Was this a product which Compuware later acquired? 
( I doubt this, as I find other pages which say Compuware launched Xpediter 
v1.0 some time in the '70s )
Was this a true competing product from a *different* vendor which just happened 
to have the same name as the famous Compuware product?
( I doubt this as I'm sure Compuware would have filed a lawsuit for trademark 
infrigement but I can't find any evidence that such a suit was ever filed)
Was "Application Development Systems" a licensee which sold Xpediter 
independently? 
( This seems most likely, yet I can find no evidence to conclusively support 
this )

Anyone here know the skinny on this?  
Gregory Kurtz??

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Re: DFSORT Header1 with Date

[Steve Smith]

Well, my previous post wasn't helpful.  Those keywords are for INREC, and
do not work in HEADER1=.

Your first issue is that DFSORT HEADER1= requires DATENS=(4MD),TIME=(24)...
i.e. the '=' are required.  But as previously stated, the '-1' isn't
supported at all.

Massimo B.'s advice should help you get on the right track, but it would be
much better if you can replace existing header records using INREC IFTHEN
BUILD logic.  In that case, DATE1-1 should work.  I'm guessing that maybe
your '0' record might be such a header.  If not, then Massimo's idea might
be the best.

It's surprising to me that DFSORT is missing such a trivial feature (DATE
offset in header) that SYNCSORT has.

Obviously, it would be great if Sri Kolusu would deliver his authoritative
answer, but until then, HTH.

sas

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Trying to put three reports together with SORT

[Billy Ashton]

Hey everyone (and especially Kolusu):
I have three different SQL reports that I am trying to use to create a
consolidated report (it is not possible to do this in a single SQL pass for
various processing and ownership reasons). I have been straining my brain
trying to figure out how to PUSH the key fields into work areas of the
record so they can sort in order, but I can't seem to come up with the
right details.

Here is the description:
1. These are all hierarchy reports, showing a relationship between a
Division and Location, a Location and Department, and a Department and
Employee. Every one of these entities can have one or more versions (we
call them RecID), and the RecID is independent of the rest of the hierarchy
- for instance, Division-rec1 r1 can have Location-rec1 r5 and
Location-rec2 r3...each item has its own RecID.
2. Even though the RecID is independent, the relationship of the hierarchy
is consistent. So if there is a Division-rec1 r1 with Location-rec1 r5,
there will be a Location-rec1 r5 record with its 1 or more departments. And
if there is a Location-rec1 r5 with a Department-rec1 r3, there will be a
Department-rec1 r3 with its employees.
3. There are three reports: Division to Location, Location to Department,
and Department to Employee. I would like to put these all together to show
the hierarchy in an easier-to-read format, with every subordinate record
listed with its superior record.

Maybe an example is easier to understand...
Given this input from concatenated reports (I have cut out a number of
unrelated columns - this is only an excerpt):
F_TP F_NAME   ... F_RECID T_TP T_NAMET_RECID START EMP_NO
DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON1
DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  PA-BERKS1
LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON   1 DEP  PURCHASING  1
LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  LEGAL   1
LOC  PA-BERKS   2 DEP  LEGAL   2
LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  SHIPPING1
DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  JOE SMITH   1  1994 10021
DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  BOB ABRAMS  1  2003 10438
DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  APRIL LACOSTE   1  2004 31222
DEP  LEGAL  1 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS1  2013 17284
DEP  LEGAL  2 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS2  2013 17284
DEP  LEGAL  2 EMP  ROSEMARY BLUE   2  2017 24318
DEP  SHIPPING   1 EMP  ZIKAS HARIM 1  2015 29331

I would like to see the output in this order:
DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON1
LOC  NJ-HUNTERDON   1 DEP  PURCHASING  1
DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  JOE SMITH   1  1994 10021
DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  BOB ABRAMS  1  2003 10438
DEP  PURCHASING 1 EMP  APRIL LACOSTE   1  2004 31222
DIV  ORGANIC1 LOC  PA-BERKS1
LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  LEGAL   1
DEP  LEGAL  1 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS1  2013 17284
LOC  PA-BERKS   2 DEP  LEGAL   2
DEP  LEGAL  1 EMP  SAMUEL DAVIS1  2013 17284
DEP  LEGAL  2 EMP  ROSEMARY BLUE   2  2017 24318
LOC  PA-BERKS   1 DEP  SHIPPING1
DEP  SHIPPING   1 EMP  ZIKAS HARIM 1  2015 29331

So, for Div ORGANIC r1, there is a Loc NJ-HUNTERDON r1 and a Loc PA-BERKS
r1. Then for the first NJ Loc r1, there is one Department PURCHASING r1,
and in that department (r1) are three Employees. You can also see that for
Loc PA-BERKS, there are two LEGAL Deparments - r1 and r2, and these
departments have different employees.

The columns here are found in these locations on the print records:
col 2, length 3
col 7, len 32
col 41, len 4
col 46, len 3
col 50, len 32
col 84, len 4
col 96, len 4
col 101, len 8
The entire input record is 241 bytes long.

The problem I have is how can I tie input record 1 to input rec 3, and
input rec 3 to recs 7, 8, and 9? I need to be sure the From and To values
between Hierarchy levels match on the name and the RecID. This small sample
shows the challenge, and the total input is in the thousands, so I need to
find a way to put this together.

Thank you to Kolusu and anyone else who can direct me to the right solution.

Billy

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Re: DFSORT Header1 with Date

[Gilson Cesar de Oliveira]

Dear list:

  Follow the results using DFSORT:
ICE250I 0 VISIT http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort FOR DFSORT PAPERS, EXAMPLES 
AND MORE   
ICE000I 0 - CONTROL STATEMENTS FOR 5650-ZOS, Z/OS DFSORT V2R3  - 06:00 ON SUN 
SEP 22, 2019 - 
   OPTION COPY  
 
   OUTFIL FNAMES=SORTOUT,REMOVECC,INCLUDE=(1,1,CH,EQ,C'1'), 
 
   HEADER1=(C'H',DATENS(4MD),TIMENS,DATENS(4MD)-1), 
 
   $
 
ICE007A 1 SYNTAX ERROR  
 
   TRAILER1=(C'T',COUNT+2=(M11,LENGTH=10)), 
 
   $
 
ICE005A 0 BLANK NEEDED IN COLUMN 1 OR OPERATION NOT DEFINED CORRECTLY   
 
   OUTREC=(C'D',
 
 $  
 
ICE007A 1 SYNTAX ERROR  
 
   C'W',
 
$   
 


The problem is in HEADER1 where it doesn't recognise DATENS(4MD)-1 syntax.

The input file has the following:
RECFM=FB
LRECL=1500

The content is the following:
0021252019092300
14070414842360259994070004320324974844070004320324974800
140786381980020499940700043203286872920034070004320328687292
140790365278068099940700040043713848550064070004004371384855
140728887336531009940700043203262145410094070004320326214541
140785842023864349940700043203267612270024070004320326761227
140703667305626689940700043203224981010084070004320322498101
140728041106581529940700043203250917610034070004320325091761


The OUTPUT file (SORTOUT) has the following format:

RECFM=FB
LRECL=1271

The content in the SORTOUT is the following:

H2019092106001820190920
DW4070371144234620994070004320325220398008407000432032522039813
DW4078902827390507994070004320328121127005407000432032812112714
DW4072801894591151994070004320325054784000407000432032505478413
DW4070340219305668994070004320325749122004407000432032574912212
DW4078504750297550994070004320326695168009407000432032669516812
DW4078625679686015994070004320328530484005407000432032853048412
DW4070336669482787994070004320325770420004407000432032577042014

The syntax when using SYNCSORT runs fine.

When using DFSORT there is a syntax error and we are researching for an 
alternative using it.


Regards,

Gilson

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Re: VIO dataset problem

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

Ron,

I must have been in the pre-SMS time. 
We do use SMS now.

Kees.


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> Sent: 24 September, 2019 9:20
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> 
> Kees,
> 
> Possibly a redundant and risky method, given the ease and granularity of
> the DFSMS approach.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> RON HAWKINS
> Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
> m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:32
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem
> 
> When we already ran from 3390, we kept the VIO device a 3380, in order to
> limit the amount of VIO data.
> 
> Kees.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> > On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> > Sent: 24 September, 2019 7:52
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> >
> > Allen,
> >
> > I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and
> > define a 3390 device as the VIO model.
> >
> > I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but
> > the
> > 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a
> > long time ago.
> >
> > Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB.
> >
> >
> > RON HAWKINS
> > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
> > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> > Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem
> >
> > Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the
> > max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Steve Thompson
> > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> >
> > If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr.
> > Expct mistaks
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi ,
> > >
> > > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind
> > > using
> > VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is
> > excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure .
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > 
> > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
> > > IBM-MAIN
> >
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Re: VIO dataset problem

[Ron Hawkins]

Kees,

Possibly a redundant and risky method, given the ease and granularity of the 
DFSMS approach.

Ron


RON HAWKINS
Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM
Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:32
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem

When we already ran from 3390, we kept the VIO device a 3380, in order to limit 
the amount of VIO data.

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> Sent: 24 September, 2019 7:52
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> 
> Allen,
> 
> I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and 
> define a 3390 device as the VIO model.
> 
> I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but 
> the
> 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a 
> long time ago.
> 
> Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB.
> 
> 
> RON HAWKINS
> Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
> m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Allan Staller
> Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem
> 
> Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the 
> max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Steve Thompson
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> 
> If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr.
> Expct mistaks
> 
> 
> > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma  wrote:
> >
> > Hi ,
> >
> > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind 
> > using
> VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is 
> excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure .
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > 
> > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
> > IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
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> or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability 
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Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

[Charles Mills]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=235812=1=1332398612
 

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ron Hawkins
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z15 from IBM i perspective

I like the scientific phraseology: four-fifths of five-eighths of FA.


RON HAWKINS
Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2019 10:31
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] z15 from IBM i perspective

Maybe, you could supply the original expression, Chotsh?

On 2019-09-23 18:28, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> ObPedant "I could care less?"
>
> "I could care less." is the result of translating an ironic question in 
> Yiddish into a meaningless statement in English, probably because somebody 
> had a tin ear and didn't pick up on the inflection indicating that it was a 
> question.

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Re: VIO dataset problem

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

When we already ran from 3390, we kept the VIO device a 3380, in order to limit 
the amount of VIO data.

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> Sent: 24 September, 2019 7:52
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> 
> Allen,
> 
> I like to think that most sights would manage this with DFSMS, and define
> a 3390 device as the VIO model.
> 
> I'm not sure what the smallest supported device type is nowadays, but the
> 2314 disappeared as the device of choice for throttling VIO size a long
> time ago.
> 
> Having one track geometry makes life easier, even with SDB.
> 
> 
> RON HAWKINS
> Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
> m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Allan Staller
> Sent: Monday, 23 September 2019 22:35
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem
> 
> Typically, the vio default (installation set) is much smaller than the
> max. The OP might investigate the size of the specific files involved.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Steve Thompson
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: VIO dataset problem
> 
> If I remember correctly, the limit for a VIO Data set is 65535 tracks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr.
> Expct mistaks
> 
> 
> > On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:22 PM, Shivang Sharma  wrote:
> >
> > Hi ,
> >
> > We are not storage constraint . We hardly page .The idea behind using
> VIO is to reduce hard I/O for BDAM . When you say the file size is
> excessive is there a limit ? Job is not looping that's for sure .
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
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> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the
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> in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily
> reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of
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> 
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Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

Jim,

It is obvious that pages must be paged out for Journaling, but must they also 
be paged in, can't they be reclaimed when plenty memory is available?

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Jim Mulder
> Sent: 23 September, 2019 18:00
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
> 
>  The purpose of journaling is to allow a job to be restarted.
> 
>   In order to restart a job which is using VIO, the VIO data sets need
> to be preserved.
> 
>  In order for the VIO data sets to be preserved, they must be written
> out to page data sets,  Real storage owned by a job is not
> preserved.
> 
>   The system is behaving exactly as intended.  If your job does not
> require restart capability, you should run it in a job class which is
> defined with JOURNAL=NO.
> 
> Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test  IBM Corp.
> Poughkeepsie NY
> 
> 
> David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 09/23/2019 11:15:05 AM:
> 
> > From: David Betten/Gaithersburg/IBM@IBMUS
> > To: ibm-main@listserv.ua.edu
> > Date: 09/23/2019 11:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
> >
> > Just for clarification, I've been working with Shivang on this and he's
> > since opened a PMR on the problem.  When his job uses VIO even for a
> very
> > small file, it automatically pages out for the writes and pages in for
> the
> > reads.   With RMF we clearly see there is plenty of available memory.
> > We've since tied this to the use of journaling (JOURNAL=YES specified
> for
> > the job class).  Without journalling, the same job does no VIO paging.
> > We'll let the normal support process play out and post back the eventual
> > determination of what's causing this.
> >
> >
> > Have a nice day,
> > Dave Betten
> > z/OS Performance Specialist
> > Cloud and Systems Performance
> > IBM Corporation
> > email:  bet...@us.ibm.com
> >
> > IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
> > 09/23/2019 09:58:15 AM:
> >
> > > From: "Mullen, Patrick" 
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Date: 09/23/2019 10:03 AM
> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
> > > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> > >
> > > I've heard "my job is paged out" when what is meant is "my job is
> > > swapped out", perhaps this is the OP's situation.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:39 PM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: [EXT] Re: VIO dataset problem
> > >
> > > Shivang,
> > >
> > > My first thought is you have not described a problem. Page outs are
> > > a response to memory conditions, but they don't slow anything down.
> > > Page-ins and the page-in rate for all address are indications of a
> > > potential problem, and you do not mention page-ins.
> > >
> > > You said you are no memory constrained, but how are you verifying
> > > that? You can check AFQ and UIC values during the interval when you
> > > saw the page-outs happening. SMF Type 71 is usually the starting
> > > place for looking for memory contention, especially the page-in rate.
> > >
> > > Is there a resource class limit on the service class for these jobs?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > RON HAWKINS
> > > Director, Ipsicsopt Pty Ltd (ACN: 627 705 971)
> > > m+61 400029610| t: +1 4085625415 | f: +1 4087912585
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Shivang Sharma
> > > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:47
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] VIO dataset problem
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > My dataset is less the max limit . VIO has support for BDAM as well.
> > > Not sure on what is left to check?
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: ZEKE - ZENA

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

Since you mention z/OS in your question, this is a correct place. This a 
generous forum of technical people, eager to dive into almost any technical 
problem.
However, I can't help you further.

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Nai, Dean
> Sent: 23 September, 2019 20:36
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: ZEKE - ZENA
> 
> Not sure if this is just for IBM related products but I'll ask the
> question anyway. We are converting over 2000 jobs from ZEKE on Z/OS to
> ZENA on a ZLINUX box. Anyone go through this process and if so any tips or
> scripts to accomplish this that they know of? Thanks in advance for your
> thoughts:)
> 
> 
> Dean Nai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> 
> --
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this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt.
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch 
Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 
33014286



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