cascaded FICON - DLM

[Jake Anderson]

Hello All

I am just trying to understand if any of you are using DLM replication with
the Cascaded FICON feature?

I am curious to know what piece of hardware is required to implement
cascaded FICON.

Regards
Jake

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Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[g...@gabegold.com]

ChatGPT Isn't Coming for Your Coding Job

New technologies have long promised to make human software engineers redundant. 
But developers have only gotten more important over time.

Software engineers have joined the ranks of copy editors, translators, and 
others who fear that they’re about to be replaced by generative AI. But it 
might be surprising to learn that coders have been under threat before. New 
technologies have long promised to “disrupt” engineering, and these innovations 
have always failed to get rid of the need for human software developers. If 
anything, they often made these workers that much more indispensable.

To understand where handwringing about the end of programmers comes from—and 
why it’s overblown—we need to look back at the evolution of coding and 
computing. 

...

Bearing this history in mind, claims that ChatGPT will replace all software 
engineers seem almost assuredly misplaced. 

https://www.wired.com/story/chatgpt-coding-software-crisis/

...and, of course, this can be generalized about other AI tools. They're tools, 
not independent actors.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:23:09 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>I’m going to laugh when AI replaces many of you assembler deniers. The under 
>40 for sure. Maybe the under 50.

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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Roberto Halais]

Thank you

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 6:33 PM Doug Fuerst  wrote:

> Finally. Thanks Darren.
>
> Doug Fuerst
> Principal Consultant
> BK Associates
> 718.921.2620 (O)
> 917.572.7364 (C)
> d...@bkassociates.net
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From "Darren Evans-Young" 
> To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date 9/17/2023 17:48:07 PM
> Subject IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines
>
> >First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list
> owner.
> >Life has been busy.
> >
> >I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
> >So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe
> topics.
> >No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults,
> etc. Respect
> >each other.
> >
> >Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being
> set
> >to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.
> >
> >Darren
> >
> >--
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> >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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> --
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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Doug Fuerst]

Finally. Thanks Darren.

Doug Fuerst
Principal Consultant
BK Associates
718.921.2620 (O)
917.572.7364 (C)
d...@bkassociates.net


-- Original Message --

From "Darren Evans-Young" 

To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/17/2023 17:48:07 PM
Subject IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines


First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list owner.
Life has been busy.

I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe topics.
No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, etc. 
Respect
each other.

Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.

Darren

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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Steve Horein]

Thank you!

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 4:48 PM Darren Evans-Young  wrote:

> First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list
> owner.
> Life has been busy.
>
> I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
> So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe
> topics.
> No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, etc.
> Respect
> each other.
>
> Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
> to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.
>
> Darren
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Mark Jacobs]

Thank you.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


--- Original Message ---
On Sunday, September 17th, 2023 at 5:48 PM, Darren Evans-Young  
wrote:


> First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list 
> owner.
> Life has been busy.
> 
> I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
> So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe 
> topics.
> No discussions of religion, politics, etc. No name calling, insults, etc. 
> Respect
> each other.
> 
> Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
> to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.
> 
> Darren
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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IBM-MAIN Posting Guidelines

[Darren Evans-Young]

First, I would like to apologize to the list for not being a better list owner.
Life has been busy.

I've had numerous complaints about some postings on the list.
So, here's the deal. All posts WILL be directly related to IBM Mainframe topics.
No discussions of religion, politics, etc.  No name calling, insults, etc. 
Respect
each other.

Failure to adhere to these simple basic guidelines will result in being set
to REVIEW and/or removal from the list.

Darren

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Seymour J Metz]

The culture for most Mizrachi and Sephardi Jews is very different from that of 
Ashkenazi Jews. Did he read his own cite?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Bob 
T Roller <044ef325f6c3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 5:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

Johnson is correct.

To U.S. Jews, being Jewish is not just about religion

There is no one way that American Jews think about being Jewish, as the survey 
makes clear. When asked whether being Jewish is mainly a matter of religion, 
ancestry or culture, some Jewish respondents pick each of those things, and 
many choose some combination of them. In fact, among the most common answers – 
expressed by about one-in-five U.S. Jews (19%) – is that being Jewish is about 
religion, ancestry and culture.

Similar shares say being Jewish is mainly a matter of just culture (22%) or 
just ancestry (21%). About half as many (11%) say being Jewish is mainly about 
religion alone. The remainder give other responses, such as that being Jewish 
is about both ancestry and culture (10%).

>From Pew research.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/jewish-identity-and-belief/

Sent from [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) for iOS

On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com 
<[g...@gabegold.com](mailto:On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com 
< wrote:

> You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.
>
> You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
> then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.
>
> AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the 
> meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not in 
> the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who disagrees 
> with you.
>
> A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree with 
> most of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds, not 
> making friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing 
> anything. You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad 
> reason for being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.
>
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe 
>>systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African 
>>American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the 
>>demographics are even more white since almost all systems programmers who got 
>>into IT in the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white. Guess 
>>what? I can also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, Scandinavian, 
>>Irish, and most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy but it’s not as 
>>difficult as you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black guy. My Father in 
>>Law’s name was Majewski.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Just quoting a survey proves nothing. Plenty of Muslims became Muslims
because they married a Muslim.

So I guess you can divorce your ethnicity and marry another one.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 7:29 AM Bob T Roller <
044ef325f6c3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Johnson is correct.
>
> To U.S. Jews, being Jewish is not just about religion
>
> There is no one way that American Jews think about being Jewish, as the
> survey makes clear. When asked whether being Jewish is mainly a matter of
> religion, ancestry or culture, some Jewish respondents pick each of those
> things, and many choose some combination of them. In fact, among the most
> common answers – expressed by about one-in-five U.S. Jews (19%) – is that
> being Jewish is about religion, ancestry and culture.
>
> Similar shares say being Jewish is mainly a matter of just culture (22%)
> or just ancestry (21%). About half as many (11%) say being Jewish is mainly
> about religion alone. The remainder give other responses, such as that
> being Jewish is about both ancestry and culture (10%).
>
> From Pew research.
>
> https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/jewish-identity-and-belief/
>
> Sent from [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) for iOS
>
> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com <[g...@gabegold.com
> ](mailto:On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com <
> wrote:
>
> > You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.
> >
> > You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting
> and then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.
> >
> > AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the
> meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not
> in the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who
> disagrees with you.
> >
> > A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree
> with most of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds,
> not making friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing
> anything. You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad
> reason for being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson 
> wrote:
> >
> >>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe
> systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African
> American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the
> demographics are even more white since almost all systems programmers who
> got into IT in the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white.
> Guess what? I can also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic,
> Scandinavian, Irish, and most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy
> but it’s not as difficult as you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black
> guy. My Father in Law’s name was Majewski.
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bob T Roller]

Johnson is correct.

To U.S. Jews, being Jewish is not just about religion

There is no one way that American Jews think about being Jewish, as the survey 
makes clear. When asked whether being Jewish is mainly a matter of religion, 
ancestry or culture, some Jewish respondents pick each of those things, and 
many choose some combination of them. In fact, among the most common answers – 
expressed by about one-in-five U.S. Jews (19%) – is that being Jewish is about 
religion, ancestry and culture.

Similar shares say being Jewish is mainly a matter of just culture (22%) or 
just ancestry (21%). About half as many (11%) say being Jewish is mainly about 
religion alone. The remainder give other responses, such as that being Jewish 
is about both ancestry and culture (10%).

From Pew research.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/jewish-identity-and-belief/

Sent from [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) for iOS

On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com 
<[g...@gabegold.com](mailto:On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com 
< wrote:

> You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.
>
> You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
> then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.
>
> AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the 
> meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not in 
> the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who disagrees 
> with you.
>
> A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree with 
> most of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds, not 
> making friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing 
> anything. You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad 
> reason for being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.
>
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe 
>>systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African 
>>American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the 
>>demographics are even more white since almost all systems programmers who got 
>>into IT in the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white. Guess 
>>what? I can also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, Scandinavian, 
>>Irish, and most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy but it’s not as 
>>difficult as you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black guy. My Father in 
>>Law’s name was Majewski.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

False. Read up dimwit.

https://www.jewfaq.org/what_is_judaism




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 4:58 PM, Wayne Bickerdike  
wrote:

Johnson doesn't understand the difference between ethnicity and religion.
How surprising.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 4:44 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Ok, you’re right, as your fragile ego needs.
>
> As I stated, and proved, I can tell most people’s color and ethnicity just
> using their names. It’s not hard. Most people can do it. I’m neither
> Buddhist or Christian.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 1:22 PM, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
>
> I know what you told me. As usual, you're dodging the question and lying
> about those who disagree with you. Saying that I'm Jewish Isn't any closer
> to identifying my ethnicity than saying that You're Buddhist or Christian.
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:55 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!
>
> I already told you, you’re Jewish. Just like most people can tell I’m
> Swedish. But, you can’t tell where in Sweden my ancestors came. Just as I
> can’t tell (without more research) where your ancestors are from.
>
> As usual, you like to try to prove me wrong. And can’t.
>
> African Americans are more difficult. Because most have names derived from
> or taken from their slave owners. And tracing their roots is almost
> impossible since there is little paper trail. Most traces end in their
> arrival on the east coast. That’s not much of a problem here. There’s not
> many African American systems programmers.
>
> You should watch “Finding Your Roots”. Excellent series. I love
> educational programming.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 12:45 PM, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
>
> The question is whether you can, as you claimed, determine my origins from
> my name. You can probably determine whether I am Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or
> Sephardi, but beyond that it is not as easy as you believe.
>
> For that matter, can you tell from his name whether an American-born
> citizen has ancestry from Benin versus Gambia versus Ghana vversus Guinea?
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!
>
> You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up
> on the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians
> right? An excerpt.
>
> In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which
> required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely
> restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in.
> The purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an
> act that would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear
> distinction to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those
> who were not. Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that
> preceded this papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom
> of movement. Under the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and
> unsanitary area that regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the
> ghetto was a place of squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with
> magnificent churches. This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight
> the differences between Jews and Christians, making it seem as though the
> destitute living conditions of the ghetto were the natural consequences of
> denying the divinity of Christ. Though the ghetto was designed to segregate
> Jews, who were seen as a threat to Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and
> Christians from maintaining social and economic interactions; indeed
> Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto during the day.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first
> name Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can
> determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning
> snow hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to
> tell most people’s ethnicity from their names.
>
> Here’s some help for you.
>
>
> 

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Johnson doesn't understand the difference between ethnicity and religion.
How surprising.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 4:44 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Ok, you’re right, as your fragile ego needs.
>
> As I stated, and proved, I can tell most people’s color and ethnicity just
> using their names. It’s not hard. Most people can do it. I’m neither
> Buddhist or Christian.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 1:22 PM, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
>
> I know what you told me. As usual, you're dodging the question and lying
> about those who disagree with you. Saying that I'm Jewish Isn't any closer
> to identifying my ethnicity than saying that You're Buddhist or Christian.
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:55 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!
>
> I already told you, you’re Jewish. Just like most people can tell I’m
> Swedish. But, you can’t tell where in Sweden my ancestors came. Just as I
> can’t tell (without more research) where your ancestors are from.
>
> As usual, you like to try to prove me wrong. And can’t.
>
> African Americans are more difficult. Because most have names derived from
> or taken from their slave owners. And tracing their roots is almost
> impossible since there is little paper trail. Most traces end in their
> arrival on the east coast. That’s not much of a problem here. There’s not
> many African American systems programmers.
>
> You should watch “Finding Your Roots”. Excellent series. I love
> educational programming.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 12:45 PM, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
>
> The question is whether you can, as you claimed, determine my origins from
> my name. You can probably determine whether I am Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or
> Sephardi, but beyond that it is not as easy as you believe.
>
> For that matter, can you tell from his name whether an American-born
> citizen has ancestry from Benin versus Gambia versus Ghana vversus Guinea?
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!
>
> You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up
> on the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians
> right? An excerpt.
>
> In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which
> required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely
> restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in.
> The purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an
> act that would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear
> distinction to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those
> who were not. Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that
> preceded this papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom
> of movement. Under the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and
> unsanitary area that regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the
> ghetto was a place of squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with
> magnificent churches. This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight
> the differences between Jews and Christians, making it seem as though the
> destitute living conditions of the ghetto were the natural consequences of
> denying the divinity of Christ. Though the ghetto was designed to segregate
> Jews, who were seen as a threat to Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and
> Christians from maintaining social and economic interactions; indeed
> Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto during the day.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first
> name Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can
> determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning
> snow hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to
> tell most people’s ethnicity from their names.
>
> Here’s some help for you.
>
>
> 

Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice

[Seymour J Metz]

You use an IRB for any of

Obsolete access methods
STIMER with exit
STAI
STAX


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 3:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice

Thanks!  So the main points are (as I already thought) that an SRB isn't
related to any TCB's and is dispatched before any TCB's, or even if
there are no TCB's ready for work.

And (what I think you're saying) is that an IRB is related to a
particular TCB, which makes it quite different from an SRB, and an
example is when a STIMER WAIT expires.  I always assumed when a WAIT
expires nothing much happens except setting the issuing TCB flags so
that it's now ready for work.

Hmm... maybe the idea of an IRB for STIMER is because at the end of the
WAIT you typically want to be interrupted "right now", rather than (like
I believe) a POST just sets the TCB bits so it's ready, but that TCB
might not get control for who-knows-how-long.

Not that I'm going to code anything with an IRB or SRB, but it's
interesting to try to understand what's happening.

On 9/17/2023 11:38 AM, Binyamin Dissen wrote:
> Well, technically an SRB code can get control before the address space is
> supposed to get control.  The SRB runs without a TCB and is limited in which
> system services can be issued.
>
> The IRB is an RB like a PRB and is associated with a TCB. It is usually placed
> by something not running under that TCB (usually an SRB) that wants to do
> something under that TCB. The IRB is usually placed at the top (bottom?)  of
> the chain so that the next time the TCB gets control the IRB code will run
> (note that the TCB could currently be in control on a CP and the current RB
> will keep running until an interrupt). At some time MVS added the facility to
> place the IRB whenever you want in the RB chain.
>
> STIMER(M) w/o WAIT causes an IRB to be scheduled in the task when the interval
> ends.
>
> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:58:49 -0700 Tom Brennan 
> wrote:
>
> :>I've never written code that runs as an SRB, but over the years I've
> :>read about them and seen them in action, such as Omegamon poking code
> :>into other address spaces to grab data or do things like zap memory.  So
> :>my simple understanding is an SRB is code that once scheduled, gets run
> :>first when the dispatcher comes back around to that address space, and
> :>then (I assume) is removed once it has done its work.
> :>
> :>So what's an IRB - Interrupt Request Block?  I've heard the name but
> :>know nothing about it other than the manual mentions Asynchronous Exits,
> :>but doesn't seem to go into the details.  So are we talking about code
> :>that gets executed sometime during interrupt processing, such as when an
> :>I/O interrupt occurs?
> :>
> :>On 9/15/2023 10:54 PM, Michael Stein wrote:
> :>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 06:16:59PM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> :>>> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour's advice
> :>>> for a return code of zero from schedirb
> :>>
> :>> There are likely many ways to do something like what you are trying
> :>> to do and the IRB idea likely wasn't close to the best, however:
> :>>
> :>> * if you have a test system at your disposal where a dump or crash
> :>>won't hurt others
> :>>
> :>> * and you have the time to do a bit of exploring and learning
> :>>
> :>> I don't see it as bad, unless you don't learn from it.
> :>>
> :>>> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
> :>>
> :>> Which is what I'd expect if the code the IRB tried to run had any sort
> :>> of problem (program check? abend?).  The resulting abend will be passed
> :>> to that tasks (IKJEFT01) ESTAE and most likely it has no idea what to
> :>> do about it.  So it took a dump and likely got the RB chain for that
> :>> task cleaned up (or terminated the task?).
> :>>
> :>>> I guess it didn't like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
> :>>
> :>> No, my best guess is that IKJEFT01 has no idea anyone would do such
> :>> a thing.  And if the IRB code ran and terminated normally the IRB would
> :>> go away and IKJEFT01 would still be there and would never know.
> :>>
> :>> Go read the dump and figure out what happened...
> :>>
> :>> Find the IJKEFT01 TCB and it's RB chain.  Does it show an IRB on the
> :>> chain?  Where do the PSWs in the RBs on the chain point?
> :>>
> :>> --
> :>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> :>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> :>>
> :>>
> :>
> :>--
> :>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> :>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> Binyamin Dissen 
> http://www.dissensoftware.com/
>
> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
>
> 

Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice

[Binyamin Dissen]

STIMER(M) w/o (without) WAIT.

WAIT just places the RB in a wait so no IRB is required.

 On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 12:08:38 -0700 Tom Brennan 
wrote:

:>Thanks!  So the main points are (as I already thought) that an SRB isn't 
:>related to any TCB's and is dispatched before any TCB's, or even if 
:>there are no TCB's ready for work.
:>
:>And (what I think you're saying) is that an IRB is related to a 
:>particular TCB, which makes it quite different from an SRB, and an 
:>example is when a STIMER WAIT expires.  I always assumed when a WAIT 
:>expires nothing much happens except setting the issuing TCB flags so 
:>that it's now ready for work.
:>
:>Hmm... maybe the idea of an IRB for STIMER is because at the end of the 
:>WAIT you typically want to be interrupted "right now", rather than (like 
:>I believe) a POST just sets the TCB bits so it's ready, but that TCB 
:>might not get control for who-knows-how-long.
:>
:>Not that I'm going to code anything with an IRB or SRB, but it's 
:>interesting to try to understand what's happening.
:>
:>On 9/17/2023 11:38 AM, Binyamin Dissen wrote:
:>> Well, technically an SRB code can get control before the address space is
:>> supposed to get control.  The SRB runs without a TCB and is limited in which
:>> system services can be issued.
:>> 
:>> The IRB is an RB like a PRB and is associated with a TCB. It is usually 
placed
:>> by something not running under that TCB (usually an SRB) that wants to do
:>> something under that TCB. The IRB is usually placed at the top (bottom?)  of
:>> the chain so that the next time the TCB gets control the IRB code will run
:>> (note that the TCB could currently be in control on a CP and the current RB
:>> will keep running until an interrupt). At some time MVS added the facility 
to
:>> place the IRB whenever you want in the RB chain.
:>> 
:>> STIMER(M) w/o WAIT causes an IRB to be scheduled in the task when the 
interval
:>> ends.
:>> 
:>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:58:49 -0700 Tom Brennan 
:>> wrote:
:>> 
:>> :>I've never written code that runs as an SRB, but over the years I've
:>> :>read about them and seen them in action, such as Omegamon poking code
:>> :>into other address spaces to grab data or do things like zap memory.  So
:>> :>my simple understanding is an SRB is code that once scheduled, gets run
:>> :>first when the dispatcher comes back around to that address space, and
:>> :>then (I assume) is removed once it has done its work.
:>> :>
:>> :>So what's an IRB - Interrupt Request Block?  I've heard the name but
:>> :>know nothing about it other than the manual mentions Asynchronous Exits,
:>> :>but doesn't seem to go into the details.  So are we talking about code
:>> :>that gets executed sometime during interrupt processing, such as when an
:>> :>I/O interrupt occurs?
:>> :>
:>> :>On 9/15/2023 10:54 PM, Michael Stein wrote:
:>> :>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 06:16:59PM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
:>> :>>> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour's advice
:>> :>>> for a return code of zero from schedirb
:>> :>>
:>> :>> There are likely many ways to do something like what you are trying
:>> :>> to do and the IRB idea likely wasn't close to the best, however:
:>> :>>
:>> :>> * if you have a test system at your disposal where a dump or crash
:>> :>>won't hurt others
:>> :>>
:>> :>> * and you have the time to do a bit of exploring and learning
:>> :>>
:>> :>> I don't see it as bad, unless you don't learn from it.
:>> :>>
:>> :>>> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Which is what I'd expect if the code the IRB tried to run had any sort
:>> :>> of problem (program check? abend?).  The resulting abend will be passed
:>> :>> to that tasks (IKJEFT01) ESTAE and most likely it has no idea what to
:>> :>> do about it.  So it took a dump and likely got the RB chain for that
:>> :>> task cleaned up (or terminated the task?).
:>> :>>
:>> :>>> I guess it didn't like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
:>> :>>
:>> :>> No, my best guess is that IKJEFT01 has no idea anyone would do such
:>> :>> a thing.  And if the IRB code ran and terminated normally the IRB would
:>> :>> go away and IKJEFT01 would still be there and would never know.
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Go read the dump and figure out what happened...
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Find the IJKEFT01 TCB and it's RB chain.  Does it show an IRB on the
:>> :>> chain?  Where do the PSWs in the RBs on the chain point?
:>> :>>
:>> :>> --
:>> :>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>> :>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
:>> :>>
:>> :>>
:>> :>
:>> :>--
:>> :>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>> :>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
:>> 
:>> --
:>> Binyamin Dissen 
:>> http://www.dissensoftware.com
:>> 
:>> Director, Dissen 

Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice

[Tom Brennan]

Thanks!  So the main points are (as I already thought) that an SRB isn't 
related to any TCB's and is dispatched before any TCB's, or even if 
there are no TCB's ready for work.


And (what I think you're saying) is that an IRB is related to a 
particular TCB, which makes it quite different from an SRB, and an 
example is when a STIMER WAIT expires.  I always assumed when a WAIT 
expires nothing much happens except setting the issuing TCB flags so 
that it's now ready for work.


Hmm... maybe the idea of an IRB for STIMER is because at the end of the 
WAIT you typically want to be interrupted "right now", rather than (like 
I believe) a POST just sets the TCB bits so it's ready, but that TCB 
might not get control for who-knows-how-long.


Not that I'm going to code anything with an IRB or SRB, but it's 
interesting to try to understand what's happening.


On 9/17/2023 11:38 AM, Binyamin Dissen wrote:

Well, technically an SRB code can get control before the address space is
supposed to get control.  The SRB runs without a TCB and is limited in which
system services can be issued.

The IRB is an RB like a PRB and is associated with a TCB. It is usually placed
by something not running under that TCB (usually an SRB) that wants to do
something under that TCB. The IRB is usually placed at the top (bottom?)  of
the chain so that the next time the TCB gets control the IRB code will run
(note that the TCB could currently be in control on a CP and the current RB
will keep running until an interrupt). At some time MVS added the facility to
place the IRB whenever you want in the RB chain.

STIMER(M) w/o WAIT causes an IRB to be scheduled in the task when the interval
ends.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:58:49 -0700 Tom Brennan 
wrote:

:>I've never written code that runs as an SRB, but over the years I've
:>read about them and seen them in action, such as Omegamon poking code
:>into other address spaces to grab data or do things like zap memory.  So
:>my simple understanding is an SRB is code that once scheduled, gets run
:>first when the dispatcher comes back around to that address space, and
:>then (I assume) is removed once it has done its work.
:>
:>So what's an IRB - Interrupt Request Block?  I've heard the name but
:>know nothing about it other than the manual mentions Asynchronous Exits,
:>but doesn't seem to go into the details.  So are we talking about code
:>that gets executed sometime during interrupt processing, such as when an
:>I/O interrupt occurs?
:>
:>On 9/15/2023 10:54 PM, Michael Stein wrote:
:>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 06:16:59PM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
:>>> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour's advice
:>>> for a return code of zero from schedirb
:>>
:>> There are likely many ways to do something like what you are trying
:>> to do and the IRB idea likely wasn't close to the best, however:
:>>
:>> * if you have a test system at your disposal where a dump or crash
:>>won't hurt others
:>>
:>> * and you have the time to do a bit of exploring and learning
:>>
:>> I don't see it as bad, unless you don't learn from it.
:>>
:>>> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
:>>
:>> Which is what I'd expect if the code the IRB tried to run had any sort
:>> of problem (program check? abend?).  The resulting abend will be passed
:>> to that tasks (IKJEFT01) ESTAE and most likely it has no idea what to
:>> do about it.  So it took a dump and likely got the RB chain for that
:>> task cleaned up (or terminated the task?).
:>>
:>>> I guess it didn't like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
:>>
:>> No, my best guess is that IKJEFT01 has no idea anyone would do such
:>> a thing.  And if the IRB code ran and terminated normally the IRB would
:>> go away and IKJEFT01 would still be there and would never know.
:>>
:>> Go read the dump and figure out what happened...
:>>
:>> Find the IJKEFT01 TCB and it's RB chain.  Does it show an IRB on the
:>> chain?  Where do the PSWs in the RBs on the chain point?
:>>
:>> --
:>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
:>>
:>>
:>
:>--
:>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




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Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[Bill Johnson]

If I had started cleaning last year, I could have brought it with me to 
Regensburg. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 2:09 PM, Bernd Oppolzer 
 wrote:

I'd really be interested, because I am collecting historic computer 
related books,
so if - by any chance - you could send it to Germany, I would be happy.
Of course, I would pay you the needed transfer costs.

For exchanging contact information, please send me an offline mail. Thanks.

BTW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kudlick


Am 17.09.2023 um 17:04 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> Good news, while cleaning out my basement, I found my college Assembler 
> textbook. Along with my Assembler class final assignment printout. If anyone 
> wants the book, let my know, I’ll gladly give it to you so you can learn it. 
> Self taught of course.
>
> It’s called Assembler Language Programming for the IBM Systems 360 and 370 
> for OS and DOS. Author is Michael D. Kudlick second edition.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>

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Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[Bill Johnson]

I would gladly send it to you. Send where off list. mellonb...@yahoo.com


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 2:09 PM, Bernd Oppolzer 
 wrote:

I'd really be interested, because I am collecting historic computer 
related books,
so if - by any chance - you could send it to Germany, I would be happy.
Of course, I would pay you the needed transfer costs.

For exchanging contact information, please send me an offline mail. Thanks.

BTW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kudlick


Am 17.09.2023 um 17:04 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> Good news, while cleaning out my basement, I found my college Assembler 
> textbook. Along with my Assembler class final assignment printout. If anyone 
> wants the book, let my know, I’ll gladly give it to you so you can learn it. 
> Self taught of course.
>
> It’s called Assembler Language Programming for the IBM Systems 360 and 370 
> for OS and DOS. Author is Michael D. Kudlick second edition.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

Ok, you’re right, as your fragile ego needs.

As I stated, and proved, I can tell most people’s color and ethnicity just 
using their names. It’s not hard. Most people can do it. I’m neither Buddhist 
or Christian.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 1:22 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

I know what you told me. As usual, you're dodging the question and lying about 
those who disagree with you. Saying that I'm Jewish Isn't any closer to 
identifying my ethnicity than saying that You're Buddhist or Christian.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I already told you, you’re Jewish. Just like most people can tell I’m Swedish. 
But, you can’t tell where in Sweden my ancestors came. Just as I can’t tell 
(without more research) where your ancestors are from.

As usual, you like to try to prove me wrong. And can’t.

African Americans are more difficult. Because most have names derived from or 
taken from their slave owners. And tracing their roots is almost impossible 
since there is little paper trail. Most traces end in their arrival on the east 
coast. That’s not much of a problem here. There’s not many African American 
systems programmers.

You should watch “Finding Your Roots”. Excellent series. I love educational 
programming.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 12:45 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

The question is whether you can, as you claimed, determine my origins from my 
name. You can probably determine whether I am Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or Sephardi, 
but beyond that it is not as easy as you believe.

For that matter, can you tell from his name whether an American-born citizen 
has ancestry from Benin versus Gambia versus Ghana vversus Guinea?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up on 
the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians right? 
An excerpt.

In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which 
required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely 
restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in. The 
purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an act that 
would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear distinction 
to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those who were not. 
Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that preceded this 
papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom of movement. Under 
the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and unsanitary area that 
regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the ghetto was a place of 
squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with magnificent churches. 
This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight the differences between Jews 
and Christians, making it seem as though the destitute living conditions of the 
ghetto were the natural consequences of denying the divinity of Christ. Though 
the ghetto was designed to segregate Jews, who were seen as a threat to 
Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and Christians from maintaining social and 
economic interactions; indeed Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto 
during the day.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first name 
Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can 
determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow 
hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to tell most 
people’s ethnicity from their names.

Here’s some help for you.

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UYI-6B0pT8CfY2vwZ5Cak5kS32Ue-VZ0Y0U22Q5CiZ2CJZ9rvI89gSWf_dA9KtORFKLx14XsQ8JYWVmAlTg5kt_EAIz4sjSFHgaXxZLdeb9z3TN1Lp___CdnPd4he268_eyYVOLkNTMcRD8O5QmDjFtKnx0c0wEqZRpnoIUtrmWSWGBzcXStK6RVqXgZFSfWZXH073HeTxE8wXQtEx4eDVMrHMbQJF31Uqi0fX_h8VAWw8dtRm5XS2DTV9lT46D-ZbmMBcxARaUHlWMDd7Zp2ot0YUMB6X5d-hBpEL0xpiIRvT9y_-rZ2U81JZ9CuCBkbAxETWX866XSMD9fd07RDmgpCH_zITdsVICzNR9_N9KWNU_dAxpTjshSu79SH2pcF3uxV04w-RYzMSk2ApJiSoMJNw30oC9JKzu7O0XeM1Y/https%3A%2F%2Fnamsor.app%2F


Many blacks have acquired their last names from their slave owners.

A good source of information is via the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” with 
Henry Louis Gates Jr. It’s one of my favorite shows.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for 

Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice

[Binyamin Dissen]

Well, technically an SRB code can get control before the address space is
supposed to get control.  The SRB runs without a TCB and is limited in which
system services can be issued.

The IRB is an RB like a PRB and is associated with a TCB. It is usually placed
by something not running under that TCB (usually an SRB) that wants to do
something under that TCB. The IRB is usually placed at the top (bottom?)  of
the chain so that the next time the TCB gets control the IRB code will run
(note that the TCB could currently be in control on a CP and the current RB
will keep running until an interrupt). At some time MVS added the facility to
place the IRB whenever you want in the RB chain.

STIMER(M) w/o WAIT causes an IRB to be scheduled in the task when the interval
ends.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:58:49 -0700 Tom Brennan 
wrote:

:>I've never written code that runs as an SRB, but over the years I've 
:>read about them and seen them in action, such as Omegamon poking code 
:>into other address spaces to grab data or do things like zap memory.  So 
:>my simple understanding is an SRB is code that once scheduled, gets run 
:>first when the dispatcher comes back around to that address space, and 
:>then (I assume) is removed once it has done its work.
:>
:>So what's an IRB - Interrupt Request Block?  I've heard the name but 
:>know nothing about it other than the manual mentions Asynchronous Exits, 
:>but doesn't seem to go into the details.  So are we talking about code 
:>that gets executed sometime during interrupt processing, such as when an 
:>I/O interrupt occurs?
:>
:>On 9/15/2023 10:54 PM, Michael Stein wrote:
:>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 06:16:59PM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
:>>> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour's advice
:>>> for a return code of zero from schedirb
:>> 
:>> There are likely many ways to do something like what you are trying
:>> to do and the IRB idea likely wasn't close to the best, however:
:>> 
:>> * if you have a test system at your disposal where a dump or crash
:>>won't hurt others
:>> 
:>> * and you have the time to do a bit of exploring and learning
:>> 
:>> I don't see it as bad, unless you don't learn from it.
:>>   
:>>> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
:>> 
:>> Which is what I'd expect if the code the IRB tried to run had any sort
:>> of problem (program check? abend?).  The resulting abend will be passed
:>> to that tasks (IKJEFT01) ESTAE and most likely it has no idea what to
:>> do about it.  So it took a dump and likely got the RB chain for that
:>> task cleaned up (or terminated the task?).
:>> 
:>>> I guess it didn't like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
:>> 
:>> No, my best guess is that IKJEFT01 has no idea anyone would do such
:>> a thing.  And if the IRB code ran and terminated normally the IRB would
:>> go away and IKJEFT01 would still be there and would never know.
:>> 
:>> Go read the dump and figure out what happened...
:>> 
:>> Find the IJKEFT01 TCB and it's RB chain.  Does it show an IRB on the
:>> chain?  Where do the PSWs in the RBs on the chain point?
:>> 
:>> --
:>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
:>> 
:>> 
:>
:>--
:>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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Re: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

[Binyamin Dissen]

Or, perhaps, learn to read an SVCDUMP.

Learn how the control blocks fit together.

As TSO was kind enough to provide an SVCDUMP of the error, look at the trace
table to see how your IRB was scheduled and what failed. IPCS subcommand
SYSTRACE.

Look at the current task structure.  IPCS subcommand SUMMARY FORMAT CURRENT

IPCS subcommand STATUS

You really shouldn't be trying code like this unless you can perform basic
system type debugging.

Perhaps start with a SYSMDUMP of a standard application abend?

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:38:57 + Rob Scott 
wrote:

:>Joe,
:>
:>Once again, can I strongly suggest that you pause your functionality 
development for a while and invest some time into :
:>
:>(O) A robust general purpose recovery routine that can be used in all modes 
(prob/sup and TCB/SRB).
:>This routine should focus on grabbing diagnostic information into a structure 
that your mainline code can understand and also modify its behaviour based on 
the program that established it. You can design a structure that the 
establisher passes as a parm on the ESTAE/ARR or FRR. Make it as generic as 
possible so that you can reuse in other projects.
:>This would include whether to retry , what regs to restore , whether to take 
SDUMP or TDUMP, whether to issue messages via WTO etc etc
:>
:>(O) A comprehensive internal trace facility that can help you diagnose 
program flow issues and remove a lot of guesswork when issues arise. Even in 
its simplest form, adding a footprint into an internal circular memory buffer 
can greatly enhance your ability to debug. A few days writing IPCS rexx to 
locate and print out your trace buffer contents could save you weeks of 
head-scratching down the road.
:>
:>Writing this stuff once and doing a good job on it can gain you years of 
benefit.
:>
:>Rob Scott
:>Rocket Software.
:>
:>Sent from Outlook for Android
:>
:>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Joseph Reichman 
:>Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 11:16:59 PM
:>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
:>Subject: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice
:>
:>EXTERNAL EMAIL
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>Seymour
:>
:>First let me wish you a good year
:>
:>I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour’s advice for a 
return code of zero from schedirb
:>
:>However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
:>
:>I guess it didn’t like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
:>
:>Thanks
:>--
:>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
:>
:>
:>
:>Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ¦ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ¦ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
:>Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
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http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
:>Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy
:>
:>
:>This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information 
of Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.
:>
:>--
:>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[Bernd Oppolzer]

I'd really be interested, because I am collecting historic computer 
related books,

so if - by any chance - you could send it to Germany, I would be happy.
Of course, I would pay you the needed transfer costs.

For exchanging contact information, please send me an offline mail. Thanks.

BTW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kudlick


Am 17.09.2023 um 17:04 schrieb Bill Johnson:

Good news, while cleaning out my basement, I found my college Assembler 
textbook. Along with my Assembler class final assignment printout. If anyone 
wants the book, let my know, I’ll gladly give it to you so you can learn it. 
Self taught of course.

It’s called Assembler Language Programming for the IBM Systems 360 and 370 for 
OS and DOS. Author is Michael D. Kudlick second edition.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone



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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Seymour J Metz]

I know what you told me. As usual, you're dodging the question and lying about 
those who disagree with you. Saying that I'm Jewish Isn't any closer to 
identifying my ethnicity than saying that You're Buddhist or Christian.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I already told you, you’re Jewish. Just like most people can tell I’m Swedish. 
But, you can’t tell where in Sweden my ancestors came. Just as I can’t tell 
(without more research) where your ancestors are from.

As usual, you like to try to prove me wrong. And can’t.

African Americans are more difficult. Because most have names derived from or 
taken from their slave owners. And tracing their roots is almost impossible 
since there is little paper trail. Most traces end in their arrival on the east 
coast. That’s not much of a problem here. There’s not many African American 
systems programmers.

You should watch “Finding Your Roots”. Excellent series. I love educational 
programming.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 12:45 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

The question is whether you can, as you claimed, determine my origins from my 
name. You can probably determine whether I am Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or Sephardi, 
but beyond that it is not as easy as you believe.

For that matter, can you tell from his name whether an American-born citizen 
has ancestry from Benin versus Gambia versus Ghana vversus Guinea?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up on 
the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians right? 
An excerpt.

In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which 
required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely 
restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in. The 
purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an act that 
would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear distinction 
to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those who were not. 
Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that preceded this 
papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom of movement. Under 
the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and unsanitary area that 
regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the ghetto was a place of 
squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with magnificent churches. 
This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight the differences between Jews 
and Christians, making it seem as though the destitute living conditions of the 
ghetto were the natural consequences of denying the divinity of Christ. Though 
the ghetto was designed to segregate Jews, who were seen as a threat to 
Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and Christians from maintaining social and 
economic interactions; indeed Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto 
during the day.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first name 
Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can 
determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow 
hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to tell most 
people’s ethnicity from their names.

Here’s some help for you.

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UYI-6B0pT8CfY2vwZ5Cak5kS32Ue-VZ0Y0U22Q5CiZ2CJZ9rvI89gSWf_dA9KtORFKLx14XsQ8JYWVmAlTg5kt_EAIz4sjSFHgaXxZLdeb9z3TN1Lp___CdnPd4he268_eyYVOLkNTMcRD8O5QmDjFtKnx0c0wEqZRpnoIUtrmWSWGBzcXStK6RVqXgZFSfWZXH073HeTxE8wXQtEx4eDVMrHMbQJF31Uqi0fX_h8VAWw8dtRm5XS2DTV9lT46D-ZbmMBcxARaUHlWMDd7Zp2ot0YUMB6X5d-hBpEL0xpiIRvT9y_-rZ2U81JZ9CuCBkbAxETWX866XSMD9fd07RDmgpCH_zITdsVICzNR9_N9KWNU_dAxpTjshSu79SH2pcF3uxV04w-RYzMSk2ApJiSoMJNw30oC9JKzu7O0XeM1Y/https%3A%2F%2Fnamsor.app%2F


Many blacks have acquired their last names from their slave owners.

A good source of information is via the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” with 
Henry Louis Gates Jr. It’s one of my favorite shows.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:32 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Essentially every belief you attributed to me. Who attended SHARE. Who had a 
> degree. Knowing the ethnicity of posters.

Pop quiz. What is the Ethnicity of Snowden Williams? Where did my ancestors 
live in the 19th and 20th centuries?

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

I already told you, you’re Jewish. Just like most people can tell I’m Swedish. 
But, you can’t tell where in Sweden my ancestors came. Just as I can’t tell 
(without more research) where your ancestors are from. 

As usual, you like to try to prove me wrong. And can’t.

African Americans are more difficult. Because most have names derived from or 
taken from their slave owners. And tracing their roots is almost impossible 
since there is little paper trail. Most traces end in their arrival on the east 
coast. That’s not much of a problem here. There’s not many African American 
systems programmers.

You should watch “Finding Your Roots”. Excellent series. I love educational 
programming.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 12:45 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

The question is whether you can, as you claimed, determine my origins from my 
name. You can probably determine whether I am Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or Sephardi, 
but beyond that it is not as easy as you believe.

For that matter, can you tell from his name whether an American-born citizen 
has ancestry from Benin versus Gambia versus Ghana vversus Guinea?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up on 
the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians right? 
An excerpt.

In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which 
required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely 
restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in. The 
purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an act that 
would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear distinction 
to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those who were not. 
Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that preceded this 
papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom of movement. Under 
the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and unsanitary area that 
regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the ghetto was a place of 
squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with magnificent churches. 
This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight the differences between Jews 
and Christians, making it seem as though the destitute living conditions of the 
ghetto were the natural consequences of denying the divinity of Christ. Though 
the ghetto was designed to segregate Jews, who were seen as a threat to 
Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and Christians from maintaining social and 
economic interactions; indeed Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto 
during the day.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first name 
Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can 
determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow 
hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to tell most 
people’s ethnicity from their names.

Here’s some help for you.

https://namsor.app/


Many blacks have acquired their last names from their slave owners.

A good source of information is via the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” with 
Henry Louis Gates Jr. It’s one of my favorite shows.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:32 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Essentially every belief you attributed to me. Who attended SHARE. Who had a 
> degree. Knowing the ethnicity of posters.

Pop quiz. What is the Ethnicity of Snowden Williams? Where did my ancestors 
live in the 19th and 20th centuries?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 10:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites.

First names often provide information such as gender and historical trends, 
cultural backgrounds, and nationality. Last names provide information on the 
roots of the family system and the origin of ethnicity. Using both can increase 
the chances of being able to predict someone's ethnicity with greater 
confidence.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On 

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Seymour J Metz]

The question is whether you can, as you claimed, determine my origins from my 
name. You can probably determine whether I am Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or Sephardi, 
but beyond that it is not as easy as you believe.

For that matter, can you tell from his name whether an American-born citizen 
has ancestry from Benin versus Gambia versus Ghana vversus Guinea?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 12:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up on 
the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians right? 
An excerpt.

In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which 
required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely 
restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in. The 
purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an act that 
would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear distinction 
to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those who were not. 
Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that preceded this 
papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom of movement. Under 
the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and unsanitary area that 
regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the ghetto was a place of 
squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with magnificent churches. 
This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight the differences between Jews 
and Christians, making it seem as though the destitute living conditions of the 
ghetto were the natural consequences of denying the divinity of Christ. Though 
the ghetto was designed to segregate Jews, who were seen as a threat to 
Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and Christians from maintaining social and 
economic interactions; indeed Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto 
during the day.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first name 
Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can 
determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow 
hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to tell most 
people’s ethnicity from their names.

Here’s some help for you.

https://namsor.app/


Many blacks have acquired their last names from their slave owners.

A good source of information is via the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” with 
Henry Louis Gates Jr. It’s one of my favorite shows.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:32 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Essentially every belief you attributed to me. Who attended SHARE. Who had a 
> degree. Knowing the ethnicity of posters.

Pop quiz. What is the Ethnicity of Snowden Williams? Where did my ancestors 
live in the 19th and 20th centuries?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 10:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites.

First names often provide information such as gender and historical trends, 
cultural backgrounds, and nationality. Last names provide information on the 
roots of the family system and the origin of ethnicity. Using both can increase 
the chances of being able to predict someone's ethnicity with greater 
confidence.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:30 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> I have a talent for facts.

ObSeanSpicer Alternative facts.

> anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of
> most posters here simply based on their names.

 It's unfortunate that being certain and being correct are two very different 
things. FWIW, I would have guessed from your name that you were of Anglo-Saxon 
ancestry, but you claim otherwise.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I have a talent for facts. Which I’ve posted throughout this diatribe. The 
problem is many 

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

You should read some history of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. Also read up on 
the pope declaring “Cum nimis absurdum”. You got to love the Christians right? 
An excerpt. 

In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the “Cum nimis absurdum” proclamation, which 
required the Jews of Rome to live in separate quarters and also severely 
restricted their rights, including what businesses they could engage in. The 
purpose of this edict was to encourage conversion to Catholicism, an act that 
would serve as a ticket out of the ghetto. The ghetto made a clear distinction 
to the wider society between those who were accepted” and those who were not. 
Though anti-Semitism was alive and well in the centuries that preceded this 
papal order, until 1555 the Jews of Rome had enjoyed freedom of movement. Under 
the papal order, they were relocated to a crowded and unsanitary area that 
regularly was flooded by the Tiber River. While the ghetto was a place of 
squalor, the rest of the city was being built up with magnificent churches. 
This contrast allowed the authorities to highlight the differences between Jews 
and Christians, making it seem as though the destitute living conditions of the 
ghetto were the natural consequences of denying the divinity of Christ. Though 
the ghetto was designed to segregate Jews, who were seen as a threat to 
Catholicism, it did not stop Jews and Christians from maintaining social and 
economic interactions; indeed Christians were allowed to enter the Roman ghetto 
during the day.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:50 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first name 
Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can 
determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow 
hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to tell most 
people’s ethnicity from their names.

Here’s some help for you.

https://namsor.app/


Many blacks have acquired their last names from their slave owners.

A good source of information is via the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” with 
Henry Louis Gates Jr. It’s one of my favorite shows. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:32 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Essentially every belief you attributed to me. Who attended SHARE. Who had a 
> degree. Knowing the ethnicity of posters.

Pop quiz. What is the Ethnicity of Snowden Williams? Where did my ancestors 
live in the 19th and 20th centuries?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 10:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites.

First names often provide information such as gender and historical trends, 
cultural backgrounds, and nationality. Last names provide information on the 
roots of the family system and the origin of ethnicity. Using both can increase 
the chances of being able to predict someone's ethnicity with greater 
confidence.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:30 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> I have a talent for facts.

ObSeanSpicer Alternative facts.

> anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of
> most posters here simply based on their names.

 It's unfortunate that being certain and being correct are two very different 
things. FWIW, I would have guessed from your name that you were of Anglo-Saxon 
ancestry, but you claim otherwise.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I have a talent for facts. Which I’ve posted throughout this diatribe. The 
problem is many of you don’t like someone outside the cult showing you up so 
you attack and make ridiculous accusations and idiotic comparisons like the 
college one.

Fact - assembler is dying a slow tortuous death.

Fact - anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of most 
posters here simply based on their names.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.

You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
then arguing about wild digressions from whatever 

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

I agree with Ray Mullins, Assembler is a niche market and shrinking.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 12:01 PM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Dying can be slow or fast. Assembler has been dying a slow death for decades. 
Yeah, it could go on for a decade or two but with far fewer programmers (most 
are older) and less need. (Because far fewer programmers and more user friendly 
replacements)

At no point has the mainframe been shrinking in actual workloads. Ever. Only in 
install base with small to midsized companies who can’t afford the platform.

Most everything else I agree.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:35 AM, Dean Kent  wrote:

Definitions are important or else words are subject to widely varying 
interpretations.   'dying' appears to be equated to 'extinct' in these 
claims.  I suggest that as long as someone needs to understand the 
underlying architecture of a computer, assembler language will be a 
useful skill for them - as a learning tool, if nothing else.  It may not 
be a good choice for a college to create a curriculum, but certainly a 
few might be able to offer a class or two and have 20-50 students in it 
each year.

In 1991 Stewart Alsop infamously predicted the end of mainframes by 
1996.   He seemed to be very certain, based on the trends he was 
observing.   In other words, at that time mainframes were 'dying'.    In 
the mid-2000s the developers I worked with (whose primary coding 
language was assembler) were very paranoid that their jobs would be 
outsourced to India, because so many other mainframe jobs had been 
(operations, application development, etc.).    My observation was that 
this would be very unlikely because India had no incentive to develop an 
education infrastructure that might be useful for only a few thousand 
students (at most).   Instead, by focusing on COBOL, C, Java, HTML, CSS, 
Javascript, etc. they could educate and provide useful (saleable) skills 
to many millions.

There have been more than a few threads on this list about how 
mainframes are dying as fewer 'new' installations are identified.   
Those debates have been just as vehement.   The reality seems to be that 
mainframes are here to stay for a long time, and therefore HLASM skills 
will be necessary for a long time for at least a few folks.   I'm sure 
IBM will make sure that internally there are assembler experts educated 
and employed inside the company.  The same is likely true for vendors of 
other hardware/operating systems.

As for AI taking over that role, I am really skeptical. I am doing some 
education on machine learning and what it involves. The term implies the 
AI gets feedback regarding the accuracy of its 
conclusions/predictions/etc. - presumably from humans.   If a human is 
not able to verify the accuracy of the results, how does the machine 
learn?   You can ask AI to 'write an assembler program' to do something, 
but how do you know it works?   Either you test it and simply say "no, 
that's not it" (which is almost useless for machine learning) or you 
have a subject matter expert analyze it and provide a correction.   At 
what point do you no longer need a subject matter expert?    When every 
problem has been solved?   If every problem has not yet been solved, 
doesn't someone need to verify the results of any AI generated solution, 
and provide useful feedback on what needs to be changed?

Currently, one can find a great many examples of coding solutions in 
popular languages in various easily searched open source repositories, 
and with many millions with expertise able to provide feedback AI can 
learn very quickly.   Most assembler solutions are proprietary, and 
therefore not searchable.   Even if you were to search CBT online you 
wouldn't find a lot of details until you download, extract and then 
analyze the code.   Even then, detailed descriptions of what a 
particular section of code is doing and how each piece relates to a 
specific action (DCB vs OPEN/CLOSE vs GET/PUT, etc.) would take a bit 
more analysis and feedback.   Could AI do it?   Sure, eventually - when 
experts provide the feedback necessary for an AI to 'learn' what is and 
is not correct, but with relatively few of them in the world and most of 
those having little to no incentive to 'teach' the AI proprietary 
information that the 'unwashed masses' could utilize freely and easily, 
I don't see it happening for many years.

My conclusion is that those with current assembler skills are safe for 
as long as they want to practice it professionally - including those 
just starting their careers.   I certainly wouldn't recommend to 
everyone as a career objective - but a few will find a career, and the 
rest may find that the understanding they gain of the underlying 
architecture and hardware will be useful in finding other professional 
opportunities... including writing better code in a 

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

Dying can be slow or fast. Assembler has been dying a slow death for decades. 
Yeah, it could go on for a decade or two but with far fewer programmers (most 
are older) and less need. (Because far fewer programmers and more user friendly 
replacements)

At no point has the mainframe been shrinking in actual workloads. Ever. Only in 
install base with small to midsized companies who can’t afford the platform.

Most everything else I agree.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:35 AM, Dean Kent  wrote:

Definitions are important or else words are subject to widely varying 
interpretations.   'dying' appears to be equated to 'extinct' in these 
claims.  I suggest that as long as someone needs to understand the 
underlying architecture of a computer, assembler language will be a 
useful skill for them - as a learning tool, if nothing else.  It may not 
be a good choice for a college to create a curriculum, but certainly a 
few might be able to offer a class or two and have 20-50 students in it 
each year.

In 1991 Stewart Alsop infamously predicted the end of mainframes by 
1996.   He seemed to be very certain, based on the trends he was 
observing.   In other words, at that time mainframes were 'dying'.    In 
the mid-2000s the developers I worked with (whose primary coding 
language was assembler) were very paranoid that their jobs would be 
outsourced to India, because so many other mainframe jobs had been 
(operations, application development, etc.).    My observation was that 
this would be very unlikely because India had no incentive to develop an 
education infrastructure that might be useful for only a few thousand 
students (at most).   Instead, by focusing on COBOL, C, Java, HTML, CSS, 
Javascript, etc. they could educate and provide useful (saleable) skills 
to many millions.

There have been more than a few threads on this list about how 
mainframes are dying as fewer 'new' installations are identified.   
Those debates have been just as vehement.   The reality seems to be that 
mainframes are here to stay for a long time, and therefore HLASM skills 
will be necessary for a long time for at least a few folks.   I'm sure 
IBM will make sure that internally there are assembler experts educated 
and employed inside the company.  The same is likely true for vendors of 
other hardware/operating systems.

As for AI taking over that role, I am really skeptical. I am doing some 
education on machine learning and what it involves. The term implies the 
AI gets feedback regarding the accuracy of its 
conclusions/predictions/etc. - presumably from humans.   If a human is 
not able to verify the accuracy of the results, how does the machine 
learn?   You can ask AI to 'write an assembler program' to do something, 
but how do you know it works?   Either you test it and simply say "no, 
that's not it" (which is almost useless for machine learning) or you 
have a subject matter expert analyze it and provide a correction.   At 
what point do you no longer need a subject matter expert?    When every 
problem has been solved?   If every problem has not yet been solved, 
doesn't someone need to verify the results of any AI generated solution, 
and provide useful feedback on what needs to be changed?

Currently, one can find a great many examples of coding solutions in 
popular languages in various easily searched open source repositories, 
and with many millions with expertise able to provide feedback AI can 
learn very quickly.   Most assembler solutions are proprietary, and 
therefore not searchable.   Even if you were to search CBT online you 
wouldn't find a lot of details until you download, extract and then 
analyze the code.   Even then, detailed descriptions of what a 
particular section of code is doing and how each piece relates to a 
specific action (DCB vs OPEN/CLOSE vs GET/PUT, etc.) would take a bit 
more analysis and feedback.   Could AI do it?   Sure, eventually - when 
experts provide the feedback necessary for an AI to 'learn' what is and 
is not correct, but with relatively few of them in the world and most of 
those having little to no incentive to 'teach' the AI proprietary 
information that the 'unwashed masses' could utilize freely and easily, 
I don't see it happening for many years.

My conclusion is that those with current assembler skills are safe for 
as long as they want to practice it professionally - including those 
just starting their careers.   I certainly wouldn't recommend to 
everyone as a career objective - but a few will find a career, and the 
rest may find that the understanding they gain of the underlying 
architecture and hardware will be useful in finding other professional 
opportunities... including writing better code in a higher level language.

My final suggestion to people is:  If you don't like (consistently) what 
someone writes, don't reply.   If you can't resist, put them on 
ignore.   Once upon a time I felt it necessary to 

Re: Why it's importan There a good description of how the system handles an IRB INt to take Seymour's advice

[Mike Shaw]

I know of a product that created a permanent subtask in the *MASTER*
address space by scheduling an SRB to *MASTER*, which then located the
IEEVWAIT task there and issued CIRB to create an IRB associated with
IEEVWAIT, which in turn issued an ATTACH to create a permanent subtask of
IEEVWAIT. The technique was used to create a task that would write SMF
records asynchronously out of *MASTER*, and it worked well.

Mike Shaw
MVS/QuickRef Support Group
Chicago-Soft, Ltd.


On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 10:09 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> An IRB is an RB while an SRB, despite the name, is not. An SRB oes away
> once it is dispatched; a page fault schedules a new SRB to resume once the
> page is read in.
>
> GY28-6659-7, OS Release 21. 7 - IBM System/360 Operating System - MVT
> Supervisor - Program Number 360S-CI-535, GY28-6659-7, SERVICES INDIRECTLY
> RELATED TO A TASK
> CONTROL BLOCK, pp. 43-44, at <
> https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/os/R21.7_Apr73/plm/GY28-6659-7_MVT_Supervisor_PLM_Rel_21.7_May73.pdf#page=63>
> and SCHEDULING A USER EXIT ROUTINE, pp. 64-67 at <...#page=84>, provides a
> good description that is till relevant to z/OS, although some details have
> changed.
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Tom Brennan 
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 1:58 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice
>
> I've never written code that runs as an SRB, but over the years I've
> read about them and seen them in action, such as Omegamon poking code
> into other address spaces to grab data or do things like zap memory.  So
> my simple understanding is an SRB is code that once scheduled, gets run
> first when the dispatcher comes back around to that address space, and
> then (I assume) is removed once it has done its work.
>
> So what's an IRB - Interrupt Request Block?  I've heard the name but
> know nothing about it other than the manual mentions Asynchronous Exits,
> but doesn't seem to go into the details.  So are we talking about code
> that gets executed sometime during interrupt processing, such as when an
> I/O interrupt occurs?
>
> On 9/15/2023 10:54 PM, Michael Stein wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 06:16:59PM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> >> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour's advice
> >> for a return code of zero from schedirb
> >
> > There are likely many ways to do something like what you are trying
> > to do and the IRB idea likely wasn't close to the best, however:
> >
> > * if you have a test system at your disposal where a dump or crash
> >won't hurt others
> >
> > * and you have the time to do a bit of exploring and learning
> >
> > I don't see it as bad, unless you don't learn from it.
> >
> >> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
> >
> > Which is what I'd expect if the code the IRB tried to run had any sort
> > of problem (program check? abend?).  The resulting abend will be passed
> > to that tasks (IKJEFT01) ESTAE and most likely it has no idea what to
> > do about it.  So it took a dump and likely got the RB chain for that
> > task cleaned up (or terminated the task?).
> >
> >> I guess it didn't like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
> >
> > No, my best guess is that IKJEFT01 has no idea anyone would do such
> > a thing.  And if the IRB code ran and terminated normally the IRB would
> > go away and IKJEFT01 would still be there and would never know.
> >
> > Go read the dump and figure out what happened...
> >
> > Find the IJKEFT01 TCB and it's RB chain.  Does it show an IRB on the
> > chain?  Where do the PSWs in the RBs on the chain point?
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> >
> >
>
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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

I’ll guarantee you’re Jewish. There aren’t many Irish kids with the first name 
Shmuel. Are you really equating the degree comments as something I can 
determine in actuality? Really? Snowdon is from the old English meaning snow 
hill. (Snow dun) Williams is from old German. (Wilhelm) It’s easy to tell most 
people’s ethnicity from their names.

Here’s some help for you.

https://namsor.app/


Many blacks have acquired their last names from their slave owners.

A good source of information is via the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” with 
Henry Louis Gates Jr. It’s one of my favorite shows. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 11:32 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Essentially every belief you attributed to me. Who attended SHARE. Who had a 
> degree. Knowing the ethnicity of posters.

Pop quiz. What is the Ethnicity of Snowden Williams? Where did my ancestors 
live in the 19th and 20th centuries?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 10:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites.

First names often provide information such as gender and historical trends, 
cultural backgrounds, and nationality. Last names provide information on the 
roots of the family system and the origin of ethnicity. Using both can increase 
the chances of being able to predict someone's ethnicity with greater 
confidence.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:30 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> I have a talent for facts.

ObSeanSpicer Alternative facts.

> anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of
> most posters here simply based on their names.

 It's unfortunate that being certain and being correct are two very different 
things. FWIW, I would have guessed from your name that you were of Anglo-Saxon 
ancestry, but you claim otherwise.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I have a talent for facts. Which I’ve posted throughout this diatribe. The 
problem is many of you don’t like someone outside the cult showing you up so 
you attack and make ridiculous accusations and idiotic comparisons like the 
college one.

Fact - assembler is dying a slow tortuous death.

Fact - anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of most 
posters here simply based on their names.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.

You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.

AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the 
meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not in 
the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who disagrees 
with you.

A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree with most 
of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds, not making 
friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing anything. 
You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad reason for 
being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe 
>systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African 
>American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the demographics 
>are even more white since almost all systems programmers who got into IT in 
>the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white. Guess what? I can 
>also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, Scandinavian, Irish, and 
>most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy but it’s not as difficult as 
>you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black guy. My Father in Law’s name was 
>Majewski.

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Dean Kent]

Definitions are important or else words are subject to widely varying 
interpretations.   'dying' appears to be equated to 'extinct' in these 
claims.  I suggest that as long as someone needs to understand the 
underlying architecture of a computer, assembler language will be a 
useful skill for them - as a learning tool, if nothing else.  It may not 
be a good choice for a college to create a curriculum, but certainly a 
few might be able to offer a class or two and have 20-50 students in it 
each year.


In 1991 Stewart Alsop infamously predicted the end of mainframes by 
1996.   He seemed to be very certain, based on the trends he was 
observing.   In other words, at that time mainframes were 'dying'.    In 
the mid-2000s the developers I worked with (whose primary coding 
language was assembler) were very paranoid that their jobs would be 
outsourced to India, because so many other mainframe jobs had been 
(operations, application development, etc.).    My observation was that 
this would be very unlikely because India had no incentive to develop an 
education infrastructure that might be useful for only a few thousand 
students (at most).   Instead, by focusing on COBOL, C, Java, HTML, CSS, 
Javascript, etc. they could educate and provide useful (saleable) skills 
to many millions.


There have been more than a few threads on this list about how 
mainframes are dying as fewer 'new' installations are identified.   
Those debates have been just as vehement.   The reality seems to be that 
mainframes are here to stay for a long time, and therefore HLASM skills 
will be necessary for a long time for at least a few folks.   I'm sure 
IBM will make sure that internally there are assembler experts educated 
and employed inside the company.  The same is likely true for vendors of 
other hardware/operating systems.


As for AI taking over that role, I am really skeptical. I am doing some 
education on machine learning and what it involves. The term implies the 
AI gets feedback regarding the accuracy of its 
conclusions/predictions/etc. - presumably from humans.   If a human is 
not able to verify the accuracy of the results, how does the machine 
learn?   You can ask AI to 'write an assembler program' to do something, 
but how do you know it works?   Either you test it and simply say "no, 
that's not it" (which is almost useless for machine learning) or you 
have a subject matter expert analyze it and provide a correction.   At 
what point do you no longer need a subject matter expert?    When every 
problem has been solved?   If every problem has not yet been solved, 
doesn't someone need to verify the results of any AI generated solution, 
and provide useful feedback on what needs to be changed?


Currently, one can find a great many examples of coding solutions in 
popular languages in various easily searched open source repositories, 
and with many millions with expertise able to provide feedback AI can 
learn very quickly.   Most assembler solutions are proprietary, and 
therefore not searchable.   Even if you were to search CBT online you 
wouldn't find a lot of details until you download, extract and then 
analyze the code.   Even then, detailed descriptions of what a 
particular section of code is doing and how each piece relates to a 
specific action (DCB vs OPEN/CLOSE vs GET/PUT, etc.) would take a bit 
more analysis and feedback.   Could AI do it?   Sure, eventually - when 
experts provide the feedback necessary for an AI to 'learn' what is and 
is not correct, but with relatively few of them in the world and most of 
those having little to no incentive to 'teach' the AI proprietary 
information that the 'unwashed masses' could utilize freely and easily, 
I don't see it happening for many years.


My conclusion is that those with current assembler skills are safe for 
as long as they want to practice it professionally - including those 
just starting their careers.   I certainly wouldn't recommend to 
everyone as a career objective - but a few will find a career, and the 
rest may find that the understanding they gain of the underlying 
architecture and hardware will be useful in finding other professional 
opportunities... including writing better code in a higher level language.


My final suggestion to people is:  If you don't like (consistently) what 
someone writes, don't reply.   If you can't resist, put them on 
ignore.   Once upon a time I felt it necessary to respond to every 
single reply and retort, then I matured.


I now return you to your regular programming...

On 9/17/2023 7:53 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites.

First names often provide information such as 

Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Seymour J Metz]

> Essentially every belief you attributed to me. Who attended SHARE. Who had a 
> degree. Knowing the ethnicity of posters.

Pop quiz. What is the Ethnicity of Snowden Williams? Where did my ancestors 
live in the 19th and 20th centuries?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 10:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites.

First names often provide information such as gender and historical trends, 
cultural backgrounds, and nationality. Last names provide information on the 
roots of the family system and the origin of ethnicity. Using both can increase 
the chances of being able to predict someone's ethnicity with greater 
confidence.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:30 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> I have a talent for facts.

ObSeanSpicer Alternative facts.

> anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of
> most posters here simply based on their names.

 It's unfortunate that being certain and being correct are two very different 
things. FWIW, I would have guessed from your name that you were of Anglo-Saxon 
ancestry, but you claim otherwise.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I have a talent for facts. Which I’ve posted throughout this diatribe. The 
problem is many of you don’t like someone outside the cult showing you up so 
you attack and make ridiculous accusations and idiotic comparisons like the 
college one.

Fact - assembler is dying a slow tortuous death.

Fact - anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of most 
posters here simply based on their names.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.

You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.

AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the 
meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not in 
the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who disagrees 
with you.

A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree with most 
of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds, not making 
friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing anything. 
You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad reason for 
being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe 
>systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African 
>American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the demographics 
>are even more white since almost all systems programmers who got into IT in 
>the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white. Guess what? I can 
>also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, Scandinavian, Irish, and 
>most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy but it’s not as difficult as 
>you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black guy. My Father in Law’s name was 
>Majewski.

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Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[Bill Johnson]

I remember the Share conferences in which I was there for the training and most 
of you were there for the after hours beers. There are few disagreements here. 
It’s a white frat boy cult. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:24 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The pack mentality here is amazing. 

Yeah, a pack of cats. I guess that your super intelligence hasn't picked up on 
all of the disagreements here that don't involve you.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 11:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human 
intelligence!)

The pack mentality here is amazing.

Pack mentality is a phenomenon in which people make decisions based upon the 
actions of others, sometimes without even realizing it. It stems from the 
animalistic drive to want to fit in. We are social and status-seeking animals.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:55 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

The only reason I stay here is for the lachen. But 40+ years of working with 
dummkopf coworkers like the ones here was quite lucrative and very 
entertaining. It’s a cult.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:45 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
 wrote:

So sad. No laugh for a long time. I am laughing all the time :-)

Am 16.09.2023 um 17:23 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> I’m going to laugh when AI replaces many of you assembler deniers. The under 
> 40 for sure. Maybe the under 50.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:00 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
>  wrote:
>
> Let's see if Bill comments on this ...
> if not, maybe the AI that wrote all the provocations now prefers to be
> silent on this
> to protect itself from exposure?
> Does AI have a sense of humour?
>
> Am 16.09.2023 um 08:28 schrieb Andrew Wilkinson:
>> You could be right.
>> However, my mental image is of the real Bill Johnson gagged and tied to a 
>> chair in his basement
>> while a wicked AI posts provocations to this list in order to study human 
>> nature. Cheers, Andrew

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Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[Bill Johnson]

Good news, while cleaning out my basement, I found my college Assembler 
textbook. Along with my Assembler class final assignment printout. If anyone 
wants the book, let my know, I’ll gladly give it to you so you can learn it. 
Self taught of course.

It’s called Assembler Language Programming for the IBM Systems 360 and 370 for 
OS and DOS. Author is Michael D. Kudlick second edition.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:24 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The pack mentality here is amazing. 

Yeah, a pack of cats. I guess that your super intelligence hasn't picked up on 
all of the disagreements here that don't involve you.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 11:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human 
intelligence!)

The pack mentality here is amazing.

Pack mentality is a phenomenon in which people make decisions based upon the 
actions of others, sometimes without even realizing it. It stems from the 
animalistic drive to want to fit in. We are social and status-seeking animals.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:55 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

The only reason I stay here is for the lachen. But 40+ years of working with 
dummkopf coworkers like the ones here was quite lucrative and very 
entertaining. It’s a cult.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:45 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
 wrote:

So sad. No laugh for a long time. I am laughing all the time :-)

Am 16.09.2023 um 17:23 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> I’m going to laugh when AI replaces many of you assembler deniers. The under 
> 40 for sure. Maybe the under 50.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:00 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
>  wrote:
>
> Let's see if Bill comments on this ...
> if not, maybe the AI that wrote all the provocations now prefers to be
> silent on this
> to protect itself from exposure?
> Does AI have a sense of humour?
>
> Am 16.09.2023 um 08:28 schrieb Andrew Wilkinson:
>> You could be right.
>> However, my mental image is of the real Bill Johnson gagged and tied to a 
>> chair in his basement
>> while a wicked AI posts provocations to this list in order to study human 
>> nature. Cheers, Andrew

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Bill Johnson]

Which of my facts aren’t true? Assembler is dying. Confirmed by one of 
Assembler’s experts, Ray Mullins.

With a name like Bill Johnson, I would either be Scandinavian or black most 
likely. I’m the former. Swedish mostly. Are you aware of how Swedes are named?

Here’s some context easily found on the web on highly credible sites. 

First names often provide information such as gender and historical trends, 
cultural backgrounds, and nationality. Last names provide information on the 
roots of the family system and the origin of ethnicity. Using both can increase 
the chances of being able to predict someone's ethnicity with greater 
confidence.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 17, 2023, 10:30 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> I have a talent for facts.

ObSeanSpicer Alternative facts.

> anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of 
> most posters here simply based on their names.

 It's unfortunate that being certain and being correct are two very different 
things. FWIW, I would have guessed from your name that you were of Anglo-Saxon 
ancestry, but you claim otherwise.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I have a talent for facts. Which I’ve posted throughout this diatribe. The 
problem is many of you don’t like someone outside the cult showing you up so 
you attack and make ridiculous accusations and idiotic comparisons like the 
college one.

Fact - assembler is dying a slow tortuous death.

Fact - anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of most 
posters here simply based on their names.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.

You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.

AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the 
meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not in 
the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who disagrees 
with you.

A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree with most 
of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds, not making 
friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing anything. 
You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad reason for 
being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe 
>systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African 
>American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the demographics 
>are even more white since almost all systems programmers who got into IT in 
>the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white. Guess what? I can 
>also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, Scandinavian, Irish, and 
>most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy but it’s not as difficult as 
>you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black guy. My Father in Law’s name was 
>Majewski.

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Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

[Seymour J Metz]

> I have a talent for facts.

ObSeanSpicer Alternative facts.

> anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of 
> most posters here simply based on their names.

 It's unfortunate that being certain and being correct are two very different 
things. FWIW, I would have guessed from your name that you were of Anglo-Saxon 
ancestry, but you claim otherwise.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AI will surpass human intelligence!

I have a talent for facts. Which I’ve posted throughout this diatribe. The 
problem is many of you don’t like someone outside the cult showing you up so 
you attack and make ridiculous accusations and idiotic comparisons like the 
college one.

Fact - assembler is dying a slow tortuous death.

Fact - anyone can tell with near certainty the color and ethnicity of most 
posters here simply based on their names.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 1:09 AM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

You could also incorrectly "tell" that I didn't have a college degree.

You have a talent for gratuitous insults and an obsession with starting and 
then arguing about wild digressions from whatever was the topic at hand.

AI to assembler language to system programming demographics is quite the 
meander; each of those would have been worth separate discussions, but not in 
the unpleasant way you bring them up and then harangue anyone who disagrees 
with you.

A basic question is why, since you disdain everyone here and disagree with most 
of what people say, you're still here. You're not changing minds, not making 
friends, not providing useful information, and not contributing anything. 
You're excellent at trolling though, which seems to be your sad reason for 
being. So you're entertaining, in a ghastly sort of way.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:33:25 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Are you that naive? Ever been to Share? The current makeup of mainframe 
>systems programmers is 65% white, 15% Asian, 9% Hispanic & 5% African 
>American. Factoring in most of the heavy posters are over 50, the demographics 
>are even more white since almost all systems programmers who got into IT in 
>the 50’s through the 70’s were almost exclusively white. Guess what? I can 
>also tell which people are Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, Scandinavian, Irish, and 
>most other ethnicities. That’s not nearly as easy but it’s not as difficult as 
>you’d think. I’d bet Oujeski isn’t a black guy. My Father in Law’s name was 
>Majewski.

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Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human intelligence!)

[Seymour J Metz]

> The pack mentality here is amazing. 

Yeah, a pack of cats. I guess that your super intelligence hasn't picked up on 
all of the disagreements here that don't involve you.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2023 11:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Will AI free Bill Johnson? (was AI will surpass human 
intelligence!)

The pack mentality here is amazing.

Pack mentality is a phenomenon in which people make decisions based upon the 
actions of others, sometimes without even realizing it. It stems from the 
animalistic drive to want to fit in. We are social and status-seeking animals.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:55 AM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

The only reason I stay here is for the lachen. But 40+ years of working with 
dummkopf coworkers like the ones here was quite lucrative and very 
entertaining. It’s a cult.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:45 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
 wrote:

So sad. No laugh for a long time. I am laughing all the time :-)

Am 16.09.2023 um 17:23 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> I’m going to laugh when AI replaces many of you assembler deniers. The under 
> 40 for sure. Maybe the under 50.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, September 16, 2023, 11:00 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
>  wrote:
>
> Let's see if Bill comments on this ...
> if not, maybe the AI that wrote all the provocations now prefers to be
> silent on this
> to protect itself from exposure?
> Does AI have a sense of humour?
>
> Am 16.09.2023 um 08:28 schrieb Andrew Wilkinson:
>> You could be right.
>> However, my mental image is of the real Bill Johnson gagged and tied to a 
>> chair in his basement
>> while a wicked AI posts provocations to this list in order to study human 
>> nature. Cheers, Andrew

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Re: Why it's importan There a good description of how the system handles an IRB INt to take Seymour's advice

[Seymour J Metz]

An IRB is an RB while an SRB, despite the name, is not. An SRB oes away once it 
is dispatched; a page fault schedules a new SRB to resume once the page is read 
in.

GY28-6659-7, OS Release 21. 7 - IBM System/360 Operating System - MVT 
Supervisor - Program Number 360S-CI-535, GY28-6659-7, SERVICES INDIRECTLY 
RELATED TO A TASK
CONTROL BLOCK, pp. 43-44, at 

 and SCHEDULING A USER EXIT ROUTINE, pp. 64-67 at <...#page=84>, provides a 
good description that is till relevant to z/OS, although some details have 
changed.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 1:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why it's important to take Seymour's advice

I've never written code that runs as an SRB, but over the years I've
read about them and seen them in action, such as Omegamon poking code
into other address spaces to grab data or do things like zap memory.  So
my simple understanding is an SRB is code that once scheduled, gets run
first when the dispatcher comes back around to that address space, and
then (I assume) is removed once it has done its work.

So what's an IRB - Interrupt Request Block?  I've heard the name but
know nothing about it other than the manual mentions Asynchronous Exits,
but doesn't seem to go into the details.  So are we talking about code
that gets executed sometime during interrupt processing, such as when an
I/O interrupt occurs?

On 9/15/2023 10:54 PM, Michael Stein wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 06:16:59PM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
>> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour's advice
>> for a return code of zero from schedirb
>
> There are likely many ways to do something like what you are trying
> to do and the IRB idea likely wasn't close to the best, however:
>
> * if you have a test system at your disposal where a dump or crash
>won't hurt others
>
> * and you have the time to do a bit of exploring and learning
>
> I don't see it as bad, unless you don't learn from it.
>
>> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
>
> Which is what I'd expect if the code the IRB tried to run had any sort
> of problem (program check? abend?).  The resulting abend will be passed
> to that tasks (IKJEFT01) ESTAE and most likely it has no idea what to
> do about it.  So it took a dump and likely got the RB chain for that
> task cleaned up (or terminated the task?).
>
>> I guess it didn't like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
>
> No, my best guess is that IKJEFT01 has no idea anyone would do such
> a thing.  And if the IRB code ran and terminated normally the IRB would
> go away and IKJEFT01 would still be there and would never know.
>
> Go read the dump and figure out what happened...
>
> Find the IJKEFT01 TCB and it's RB chain.  Does it show an IRB on the
> chain?  Where do the PSWs in the RBs on the chain point?
>
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Re: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

[Seymour J Metz]

Also, if  he doesn't already know IPCS, learning it would be time well spent.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Rob 
Scott 
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 5:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

Joe,

Once again, can I strongly suggest that you pause your functionality 
development for a while and invest some time into :

(O) A robust general purpose recovery routine that can be used in all modes 
(prob/sup and TCB/SRB).
This routine should focus on grabbing diagnostic information into a structure 
that your mainline code can understand and also modify its behaviour based on 
the program that established it. You can design a structure that the 
establisher passes as a parm on the ESTAE/ARR or FRR. Make it as generic as 
possible so that you can reuse in other projects.
This would include whether to retry , what regs to restore , whether to take 
SDUMP or TDUMP, whether to issue messages via WTO etc etc

(O) A comprehensive internal trace facility that can help you diagnose program 
flow issues and remove a lot of guesswork when issues arise. Even in its 
simplest form, adding a footprint into an internal circular memory buffer can 
greatly enhance your ability to debug. A few days writing IPCS rexx to locate 
and print out your trace buffer contents could save you weeks of 
head-scratching down the road.

Writing this stuff once and doing a good job on it can gain you years of 
benefit.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software.

Sent from Outlook for Android

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Joseph Reichman 
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 11:16:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

EXTERNAL EMAIL





Seymour

First let me wish you a good year

I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour’s advice for a 
return code of zero from schedirb

However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP

I guess it didn’t like me scheduling an irb in its TCB

Thanks
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Re: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

[Mike Shaw]

+1

Since you do not have z/XDC, taking this advice from Rob will save you
hundreds of hours of debugging later, PLUS ensure that your final product
is reliable and as error free as you can make it.

Mike Shaw
MVS/QuickRef Support Group
Chicago-Soft, Ltd.


On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 5:38 AM Rob Scott  wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Once again, can I strongly suggest that you pause your functionality
> development for a while and invest some time into :
>
> (O) A robust general purpose recovery routine that can be used in all
> modes (prob/sup and TCB/SRB).
> This routine should focus on grabbing diagnostic information into a
> structure that your mainline code can understand and also modify its
> behaviour based on the program that established it. You can design a
> structure that the establisher passes as a parm on the ESTAE/ARR or FRR.
> Make it as generic as possible so that you can reuse in other projects.
> This would include whether to retry , what regs to restore , whether to
> take SDUMP or TDUMP, whether to issue messages via WTO etc etc
>
> (O) A comprehensive internal trace facility that can help you diagnose
> program flow issues and remove a lot of guesswork when issues arise. Even
> in its simplest form, adding a footprint into an internal circular memory
> buffer can greatly enhance your ability to debug. A few days writing IPCS
> rexx to locate and print out your trace buffer contents could save you
> weeks of head-scratching down the road.
>
> Writing this stuff once and doing a good job on it can gain you years of
> benefit.
>
> Rob Scott
> Rocket Software.
>
> Sent from Outlook for Android
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Joseph Reichman 
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 11:16:59 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>
>
>
>
> Seymour
>
> First let me wish you a good year
>
> I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour’s advice for a
> return code of zero from schedirb
>
> However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP
>
> I guess it didn’t like me scheduling an irb in its TCB
>
> Thanks
> --
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>
> 
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> Contact Customer Support:
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> notify Rocket Software immediately and destroy all copies of this
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Re: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

[Rob Scott]

Joe,

Once again, can I strongly suggest that you pause your functionality 
development for a while and invest some time into :

(O) A robust general purpose recovery routine that can be used in all modes 
(prob/sup and TCB/SRB).
This routine should focus on grabbing diagnostic information into a structure 
that your mainline code can understand and also modify its behaviour based on 
the program that established it. You can design a structure that the 
establisher passes as a parm on the ESTAE/ARR or FRR. Make it as generic as 
possible so that you can reuse in other projects.
This would include whether to retry , what regs to restore , whether to take 
SDUMP or TDUMP, whether to issue messages via WTO etc etc

(O) A comprehensive internal trace facility that can help you diagnose program 
flow issues and remove a lot of guesswork when issues arise. Even in its 
simplest form, adding a footprint into an internal circular memory buffer can 
greatly enhance your ability to debug. A few days writing IPCS rexx to locate 
and print out your trace buffer contents could save you weeks of 
head-scratching down the road.

Writing this stuff once and doing a good job on it can gain you years of 
benefit.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software.

Sent from Outlook for Android

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Joseph Reichman 
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 11:16:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Why it’s important to take Seymour’s advice

EXTERNAL EMAIL





Seymour

First let me wish you a good year

I did schedule the irb in the ikjeft01 TCB against Seymour’s advice for a 
return code of zero from schedirb

However the TMP Estae issued an SDUMP

I guess it didn’t like me scheduling an irb in its TCB

Thanks
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