Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Well, "amazing" is a signed variable. What do you do when IBM tells you that a machine check after pressing RESTART is a software error? What do you do when you put the 168 in Single Step mode, press RESTART and again get a machine check, without affecting the "software error" fairy tale? Amazing, but not in a good way. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tom Brennan Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 2:47:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK I didn't notice any unusual sounds even when standing over the unit. I think at the time there was nothing but res packs left on the 3330's, a holdover which allowed us to cheaply have multiple OS level backups. There was a project going on to move res packs to 3380's which had just arrived, so it could be that particular 3330 was never fixed. IBM was often amazing with repairs. I remember one morning my 3278 tube died. I went to lunch and it was fixed by the time I got back. On 4/14/2019 11:20 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > What kind of disk dies silently? When our fixed-head disk crashed after > multiple power failures it screamed like all the banshees in Hell, and the > was no doubt about what was happening. IBM said they could have it back up in > two weeks, and I thought they were blowing smokes. They flew in a special > team that did nothing but repair 2305 drives > > Part of the procedure after repair is to hook up measurement equipment and > spin for 24 hours, install the heads and spin for another 24 hours. If the > instrument detects anything out of balance you fix it and start the test from > the beginning, not from where you left off. We had a power while they were > testing, and they still turned over the working drive within the 2 weeks they > had promised. > > I don't impress easily, but they impressed me. > > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Tom Brennan > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 1:27 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK > > Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on > an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the > hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or > whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O > error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to > open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. > > On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: >> Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They >> had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with >> vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into >> loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were >> oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 degrees >> to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but no head >> crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's devices). I'll >> ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... >> >> ITschak Mugzach said: >> >> That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new >> hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but >> for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days >> later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was >> repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the >> people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum >> cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Indeed. Long ago, at Mitre -- relatively small account (360/50 running OS/MVT when I joined, 4341 and 4381 running VM as Single System Image when I left) that punched above its weight, we had an FE room with supplies/manuals/etc. -- including microcode listings as long as they were available (very interesting reading!). FE wasn't there full time but he was a regular visitor and great partner. Same for PSR -- wasn't there full-time but came when needed or just to check on how things were going. When IBM announced Support Center it was a very hard sell convincing us (me!) that it would be an improvement over in-person live-person familiar-person who knew the account very well. Since IBM wanted us to be early adopter of Support Center when PSRs were still available, we made them promise we could revert to PSR if we were unhappy, and we got a few accommodations to how we liked to do business. I guess that was the old IBM... "Schuffenhauer, Mark" said: When I was first working we had IBM folks in our building, every day, with their own desks. Opening a ticket involved talking to their desk and explaining. Amazingly someone would often call as soon as I got back to my desk, sometimes even before. The PMR's often were already opened. I remember cutting tapes and mailing them to IBM for PMR's. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
Snap: Except my painful memory is of being a new shift leader at an IBM data center in the mid 1970s (no names, no pack drill). Junior ops were 'managing' the 158 because they knew how to work on VS/1; I had to run the 'other' systems: Call/360 and DataText (I think it was). I could see the juniors scratching their heads so went over to ask what was up: Head crash(es), propagated among more than a dozen 3330 drives and a similar number of packs. I remember spending many hours over the next few days, using a multi-mirror visual inspection device, slowly rotating each pack so I could visually check each surface for scarring. IEHIBALL ran overtime that week... Regards; Phil J... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2019 2:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Similar situation. True story from the early 80s and I'm being purposely vague as to who/where to protect the victims. Non-IBM datacenter (one of the bunch for those who remember) removable disk drives in a computer room that had normal ceiling tile - you know the ones that are always flaking particles off them. 5 of these drives, and backup-to-disk (tape was considered too expensive to purchase the equipment). Yup, $600 disk packs were more economical than $10 tapes because we already had the disk drives. 4 were used for productive use and the 5th the backup target. Anyway, operator got I/O error on the backup drive, removed the pack and put a second pack on the drive. Got another I/O error so powered down one of the production drives and put the now-crashed pack on the drive. Got I/O error on this drive as well. Put production pack back on drive and went to third drive. Rinse and repeat. He then decided to call - me. After telling him to slowly back away from the equipment and not touch anything I went in. Final count, 4 dead packs, 3 drives, half our production data and all load modules. Yup, the decision had been made (not by me) to not back up load modules because if we lost any we could just recompile. 20 heads per drive and 19 were crashed. Vendor had to fly disk heads in from all across the country but within 24 hours we were back up and running. Took a couple weeks to get everything recovered that was recoverable. Not long after that, fixed drives and a tape backup system were on order. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 1:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Legendary--possibly apocryphal--story of the of the 3330 pack that got warped enough to ruin heads but did not itself disintegrate. Over zealous operator moved the pack from one drive to another looking for an operable one. Until they were all dead. True or not, nobody misses those days. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: > Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They > had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with > vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into > loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were > oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 > degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but > no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's > devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... > > ITschak Mugzach said: > > That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed > a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the > array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the > client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and > it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation > showed that the the people who cleans the computer room
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
When I was first working we had IBM folks in our building, every day, with their own desks. Opening a ticket involved talking to their desk and explaining. Amazingly someone would often call as soon as I got back to my desk, sometimes even before. The PMR's often were already opened. I remember cutting tapes and mailing them to IBM for PMR's. IBM repair speed was incredible. Even when IBM outsourced many years later, it was often the same folks with the same work ethic, with the same speed. However, if equipment became obsolete, and one had to go to another company it was... disappointing, as was most non-IBM hardware and software in the 80's and 90's. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gabe Goldberg Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 3:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK No kidding. Long ago, monitor on a friend's PS/2 failed. Being a mainframer she was accustomed to calling IBM for software/hardware support -- so she called Support Center. They scheduled a visit. I was home, fellow showed up in unmarked white van, swapped monitors, cleaned up minimal packing material debris, and left. Not the usual process for a consumer product. Tom Brennan IBM was often amazing with repairs. I remember one morning my 3278 tube died. I went to lunch and it was fixed by the time I got back. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN DISCLAIMER: This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for use by the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of the information contained in the communication. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender by reply email and immediately delete the communication. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
No kidding. Long ago, monitor on a friend's PS/2 failed. Being a mainframer she was accustomed to calling IBM for software/hardware support -- so she called Support Center. They scheduled a visit. I was home, fellow showed up in unmarked white van, swapped monitors, cleaned up minimal packing material debris, and left. Not the usual process for a consumer product. Tom Brennan IBM was often amazing with repairs. I remember one morning my 3278 tube died. I went to lunch and it was fixed by the time I got back. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Similar situation. True story from the early 80s and I'm being purposely vague as to who/where to protect the victims. Non-IBM datacenter (one of the bunch for those who remember) removable disk drives in a computer room that had normal ceiling tile - you know the ones that are always flaking particles off them. 5 of these drives, and backup-to-disk (tape was considered too expensive to purchase the equipment). Yup, $600 disk packs were more economical than $10 tapes because we already had the disk drives. 4 were used for productive use and the 5th the backup target. Anyway, operator got I/O error on the backup drive, removed the pack and put a second pack on the drive. Got another I/O error so powered down one of the production drives and put the now-crashed pack on the drive. Got I/O error on this drive as well. Put production pack back on drive and went to third drive. Rinse and repeat. He then decided to call - me. After telling him to slowly back away from the equipment and not touch anything I went in. Final count, 4 dead packs, 3 drives, half our production data and all load modules. Yup, the decision had been made (not by me) to not back up load modules because if we lost any we could just recompile. 20 heads per drive and 19 were crashed. Vendor had to fly disk heads in from all across the country but within 24 hours we were back up and running. Took a couple weeks to get everything recovered that was recoverable. Not long after that, fixed drives and a tape backup system were on order. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 1:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Legendary--possibly apocryphal--story of the of the 3330 pack that got warped enough to ruin heads but did not itself disintegrate. Over zealous operator moved the pack from one drive to another looking for an operable one. Until they were all dead. True or not, nobody misses those days. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: > Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They > had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with > vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into > loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were > oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 > degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but > no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's > devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... > > ITschak Mugzach said: > > That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed > a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the > array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the > client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and > it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation > showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the > power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the materi
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Back in the mid-70s, had something similar happen at a company I have long since departed. Some idiot operator decided to put a sticky label on the spindle of a 2314 stack. Needless to say, the glue on the label was no match for the forces on it when the stack was spun up. Pieces of the label were all over the stack and the drive mechanism. Needless to say, this ruined both the heads and the pack. The operator compounded the crime by swapping the pack getting the errors with one on another drive. Another pack and drive damaged. And then he did it again, for a total of 3 packs and 3 drives damaged. Like Richard Rogers, we had only 5 drives. The only drives not affected were the ones where the SYSRES and the SPOOL were mounted. On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 16:24:36 -0600, Richard Rogers wrote: >Watched it happen. One of our experienced operators heard a high sounding >screech come from a 2314 disk drive. He spun-down two drives, moved the bad >drive to the working drive, and tried again. Ended up literally scratching 3 >of our 5 2314 drives. Nice long curved scar on the top surface, had no idea >of the total damage. We were a VM shop using the 2314 for 1401 emulation >only, sure wish I had known about VM/Magic or other disk emulators (or had the >talent to translate CCW's under VM). > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >Jesse 1 Robinson >Sent: Saturday, 13 April, 2019 12:19 >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK > >Legendary--possibly apocryphal--story of the of the 3330 pack that got warped >enough to ruin heads but did not itself disintegrate. Over zealous operator >moved the pack from one drive to another looking for an operable one. Until >they were all dead. True or not, nobody misses those days. > >. >. >J.O.Skip Robinson >Southern California Edison Company >Electric Dragon Team Paddler >SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager >323-715-0595 Mobile >626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW >robin...@sce.com > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >Tom Brennan >Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:27 AM >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Subject: (External):Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK > >Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an >old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware >console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those >commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was >a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and >there were bits of disk head all over the inside. > >On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: >> Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They >> had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with >> vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into >> loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were >> oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 >> degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but >> no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's >> devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... >> >> ITschak Mugzach said: >> >> That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed >> a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the >> array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the >> client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and >> it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation >> showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the >> power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. > > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to >lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
From a friend: I believe the head crash story is true. I worked in The Mill and had heard about that. Lending credibility to that story was another: that on hot days in the summer, before the Mill was air conditioned, lanolin used to seep out of the wooden floors and you could easily slip and fall. Before DEC bought the Mill, it was a woolen mill. You could still smell the lanolin in many of the buildings when I worked there, so I tended to believe those stories. Another - not so benign - was that during the years when circuit boards used to be manufactured there, waste chemicals (including lead solder, etching acid, etc.) were dumped into the pond next to one of the buildings. This pond fed into the nearby Assabet river. DEC had to do quite a bit of cleanup, but the pond was never completely cleaned (last I heard), it was eventually just sealed off so that whatever was left remained there and didn't pollute the river anymore. Wouldn't want to eat any of the fish out of that pond. There were surely many other stories that I never heard. On 4/13/2019 12:16 PM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... ITschak Mugzach said: That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
I didn't notice any unusual sounds even when standing over the unit. I think at the time there was nothing but res packs left on the 3330's, a holdover which allowed us to cheaply have multiple OS level backups. There was a project going on to move res packs to 3380's which had just arrived, so it could be that particular 3330 was never fixed. IBM was often amazing with repairs. I remember one morning my 3278 tube died. I went to lunch and it was fixed by the time I got back. On 4/14/2019 11:20 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: What kind of disk dies silently? When our fixed-head disk crashed after multiple power failures it screamed like all the banshees in Hell, and the was no doubt about what was happening. IBM said they could have it back up in two weeks, and I thought they were blowing smokes. They flew in a special team that did nothing but repair 2305 drives Part of the procedure after repair is to hook up measurement equipment and spin for 24 hours, install the heads and spin for another 24 hours. If the instrument detects anything out of balance you fix it and start the test from the beginning, not from where you left off. We had a power while they were testing, and they still turned over the working drive within the 2 weeks they had promised. I don't impress easily, but they impressed me. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tom Brennan Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 1:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... ITschak Mugzach said: That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
What kind of disk dies silently? When our fixed-head disk crashed after multiple power failures it screamed like all the banshees in Hell, and the was no doubt about what was happening. IBM said they could have it back up in two weeks, and I thought they were blowing smokes. They flew in a special team that did nothing but repair 2305 drives Part of the procedure after repair is to hook up measurement equipment and spin for 24 hours, install the heads and spin for another 24 hours. If the instrument detects anything out of balance you fix it and start the test from the beginning, not from where you left off. We had a power while they were testing, and they still turned over the working drive within the 2 weeks they had promised. I don't impress easily, but they impressed me. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tom Brennan Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 1:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: > Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They > had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with > vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into > loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were > oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 degrees > to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but no head > crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's devices). I'll > ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... > > ITschak Mugzach said: > > That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new > hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but > for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days > later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was > repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the > people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum > cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
More recently (but not that recently!) a friend swears a secretary at his office did this with a stack of floppies and a bad drive. On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 2:19 PM Jesse 1 Robinson wrote: > Legendary--possibly apocryphal--story of the of the 3330 pack that got > warped enough to ruin heads but did not itself disintegrate. Over zealous > operator moved the pack from one drive to another looking for an operable > one. Until they were all dead. True or not, nobody misses those days. > > . > . > J.O.Skip Robinson > Southern California Edison Company > Electric Dragon Team Paddler > SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager > 323-715-0595 Mobile > 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW > robin...@sce.com > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Tom Brennan > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:27 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: (External):Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK > > Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on > an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the > hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or > whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O > error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to > open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. > > On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: > > Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They > > had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with > > vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into > > loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were > > oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 > > degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but > > no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's > > devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... > > > > ITschak Mugzach said: > > > > That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed > > a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the > > array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the > > client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and > > it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation > > showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the > > power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power > plug. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Seems like I have heard this before. About 30 years ago with tape drives. Urban legend? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim IBMMain Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 5:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK We had a fun one ... We had a STK Silo and we were getting "random" late afternoon barcode read error from the camera inside the Silo, CE would be called, Could find nothing wrong. This went on for about month or so, Not every day but a few times a week, It stumped everyone, So the next time it happened, I send someone from operations up to "Look" around just after it happened. Turned out the setting sun was bouncing off the glass office building next door thru the window into the datacenter (We used to move equipment in/out of the data center 3rd floor location) into the little 4x6" viewing window into the silo. And for a few minutes it "Blinded" the camera looking at the tape barcodes where the sun's rays went thru. Field Fix ... We taped a manila folder over the little viewing window, and had facilities management install a blinds on the window. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
We had a fun one ... We had a STK Silo and we were getting "random" late afternoon barcode read error from the camera inside the Silo, CE would be called, Could find nothing wrong. This went on for about month or so, Not every day but a few times a week, It stumped everyone, So the next time it happened, I send someone from operations up to "Look" around just after it happened. Turned out the setting sun was bouncing off the glass office building next door thru the window into the datacenter (We used to move equipment in/out of the data center 3rd floor location) into the little 4x6" viewing window into the silo. And for a few minutes it "Blinded" the camera looking at the tape barcodes where the sun's rays went thru. Field Fix ... We taped a manila folder over the little viewing window, and had facilities management install a blinds on the window. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Watched it happen. One of our experienced operators heard a high sounding screech come from a 2314 disk drive. He spun-down two drives, moved the bad drive to the working drive, and tried again. Ended up literally scratching 3 of our 5 2314 drives. Nice long curved scar on the top surface, had no idea of the total damage. We were a VM shop using the 2314 for 1401 emulation only, sure wish I had known about VM/Magic or other disk emulators (or had the talent to translate CCW's under VM). -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Saturday, 13 April, 2019 12:19 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Legendary--possibly apocryphal--story of the of the 3330 pack that got warped enough to ruin heads but did not itself disintegrate. Over zealous operator moved the pack from one drive to another looking for an operable one. Until they were all dead. True or not, nobody misses those days. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: > Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They > had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with > vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into > loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were > oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 > degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but > no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's > devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... > > ITschak Mugzach said: > > That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed > a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the > array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the > client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and > it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation > showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the > power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Legendary--possibly apocryphal--story of the of the 3330 pack that got warped enough to ruin heads but did not itself disintegrate. Over zealous operator moved the pack from one drive to another looking for an operable one. Until they were all dead. True or not, nobody misses those days. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: > Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They > had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with > vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into > loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were > oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 > degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but > no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's > devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... > > ITschak Mugzach said: > > That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed > a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the > array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the > client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and > it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation > showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the > power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Interesting story! The only time I've actually seen a head crash was on an old 3330 where I had just popped in a RES pack. I walked over to the hardware console to IPL - the old 3270 where you had to type L1/A2 or whatever those commands were. The hardware console told me I had an I/O error, and there was a red light on the device. I pushed the button to open the 3330 drawer and there were bits of disk head all over the inside. On 4/13/2019 9:16 AM, Gabe Goldberg wrote: Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... ITschak Mugzach said: That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
Many years ago I had friends in old DEC building in Maynard, MA. They had story of periodic head crashes on monster disk drives with vertically spinning platters. They realized cause: trucks backing into loading dock hitting and shaking the building -- since platters were oriented perpendicular to truck motion. Solution: turn drives 90 degrees to align platters with truck motion. At worst, I/O errors but no head crashes (I guess heads flew much higher than on today's devices). I'll ask veterans I know of that time/place to confirm... ITschak Mugzach said: That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Fwd: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 08:35:39 -0400, Mark Regan wrote: >https://www.computerworld.com/article/3388298/incoming.html > Somehow similar, a GPS rollover glitch took down (some) NYC wireless communications last week: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/nyregion/nyc-gps-wireless.html ... happens every 19.6 years; previously August, 1999. You'd think they'd learn. Others cited at: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2019-April/027859.html And even: The Earth's not slowing down fast enough to suit Motorola http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/22/94#subj3 -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
ITschak Mugzach wrote: >... investigation showed that the the people who cleans the computer room >unplugged the power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard >power plug. Hahaha! I heard a similar, but false story. ( https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/polished-off/ ) Apparently in a hospital in our country, some patients died during a specific shift. Same story, cleaners/janitors unplugged life supporting equipment to do their cleaning with vacuum cleaners and polishers and thus 'polished off the patients'. Also there is a false rumour that in a San Francisco hospital, during Earth Hour the patients were killed during that hour... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hour-dearly-beloved/ ;-) Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht PS: Many years ago, after a mechanic swapped the oxygen and vacuum pipes and a patient died there-after, now these days all plugs and pipes (electrical, vacuum, oxygen, etc. ) are marked with different colors and shapes. Life supporting equipments plugs on the walls are marked with a warning that they are NOT to be unplugged. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
That reminds me another story. ten years ago a client of us installed a new hitachi disk array. The technician installed and configured the array, but for some reasons, it was not immediately used by the client. few days later, the client tried to connect to the array and it was down. it was repeatedly don everyday afterwards. investigation showed that the the people who cleans the computer room unplugged the power for the vacuum cleaner... The array was using a standard power plug. ITschak On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:36 PM Mark Regan wrote: > https://www.computerworld.com/article/3388298/incoming.html > > Regards, > > Mark T. Regan, K8MTR > CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991 > Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017 > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- ITschak Mugzach *|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring for Legacy **| * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Fwd: Incoming | Computerworld SHARK TANK
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3388298/incoming.html Regards, Mark T. Regan, K8MTR CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991 Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
