Give it a rest Bill.
No one here ever said that they know it all.
Hundreds of times a week? Nope.
Lately you come the closest. Of the 382 posts this month, 48 are from you. And
many of those include complaints about people who you claim know less than you,
and a lot of boasting about your
qu...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 18:23:33
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>Many here are prime examples.
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Friday, April 7, 2023, 6:18 PM, Mike Sc
++1
On 4/7/2023 7:43 PM, william janulin wrote:
I think everyone should lighten up a bit. We care all professionals and our jobs care
demanding enough without getting into trivial " spitting " contests that help
no one. This forum should be one that is a tool that all of us can benefit from.
ic.
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 18:23:33
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>Many here are prime examples.
&
gt;
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 18:23:33
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>Many here are prime examples.
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Friday, April 7, 2023, 6:18 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:
>
>
And you are the poster child. Pathetic.
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 18:23:33
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
knows it all.
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
> Doug
> Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 12:14 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
>
> "Seldom right,
: Friday, April 7, 2023 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
"Seldom right, but never uncertain." Frank Reagan.
Describing you, I'd venture
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From: &qu
List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Frank Swarbrick [frank.swarbr...@outlook.com]
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 6:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
No one knows as little as one who think's he knows it all
t: Friday, April 7, 2023 12:14 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
>
> "Seldom right, but never uncertain." Frank Reagan.
>
> Describing you, I'd venture
>
>
> Doug Fuerst
>
No one knows as little as one who think's he knows it all.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Doug
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value
never uncertain." Frank Reagan.
Describing you, I'd venture
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 13:36:27
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [w
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 13:36:27
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>You don’t really understand Twitter do you? If I follow the WaPo, the NYT, the
>Guardian, the LA Times, the Miami Herald,
-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 8:23:03
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
I’ve read numerous articles and analysis that indic
Fuerst
> d...@bkassociates.net
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Sent: 06-Apr-23 20:19:39
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call
Message --
> From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Sent: 06-Apr-23 20:19:39
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
> value]
>
> >I did. Mellon Bank during the transiti
t; <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 8:23:03
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>I’ve read numerous articles and analysis that indicates LinkedIn has a problem
>with embellished &
pr-23 10:35:41
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>I've following this thread mostly because I'm bored and it has mild
>entertainment value, but I'm handicapped by not knowing what a "challenger
>bank" is. Can someone define it?
>
>
--
From: "Bob Bridges"
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 11:06:05
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
Thanks. By "modern financial technology" do you suppose they're talking about things like on-line
banking apps? Because
I’ve got a plethora of Engineers in my family. They were all able to get
employed pre-social media/LinkedIn.
I don’t think there are many idiots on here. There are some who embellish their
skillsets and some AH’s who use the platform for their egos.
I’ve worked with a lot of brilliant people in
parsing errors.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Jeremy Nicoll
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 9:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023, at 13:23, Bill
Thanks. By "modern financial technology" do you suppose they're talking about
things like on-line banking apps? Because pretty much everyone does that
nowadays - so, as you said, "just banks". On the other hand maybe "financial
technology" means trying out new practices in borrowing and
banks.
So, just banks
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From: "Bob Bridges"
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 10:35:41
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
I've following this thread mostly because I'm bored and i
I've following this thread mostly because I'm bored and it has mild
entertainment value, but I'm handicapped by not knowing what a "challenger
bank" is. Can someone define it?
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Every year, on April 15, all members of Congress would
So you get your "news" from Twitter. For me, that explains ALOT!
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 8:23:03
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023, at 13:23, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I’ve read numerous articles and analysis that indicates LinkedIn has a
> problem with embellished & fake resumes. Here’s one.
>
>
3, 8:06 PM, Doug wrote:
> >
> >Maybe you should have actually worked in retail banking, which clearly,
> >you never have.
> >
> >
> >Doug Fuerst
> >d...@bkassociates.net
> >
> >-- Original Message --
> >From: "Bill Johnson" <0
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
On 7/4/23 10:15, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I know more about banking than you know it alls. Already proved Crayford
> wrong regarding the challenger banks. And ING dropped their mainframe as
> their stock price is cu
I’ve read numerous articles and analysis that indicates LinkedIn has a problem
with embellished & fake resumes. Here’s one.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/29/linkedin-has-a-fake-profile-problem-can-it-fix-this-blot-on-its-cv
I also don’t like having my information on the
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023, at 05:36, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Yes Bill Johnson is my real name and I’ve never been on LinkedIn.
> That’s just an ego trip and place where people like you go for
> confirmation...
I've certainly seen some people use it as an ego-trip, for "networking"
and - presumably -
Yes Bill Johnson is my real name and I’ve never been on LinkedIn. That’s just
an ego trip and place where people like you go for confirmation. I’ve never
needed it. Everything I’ve said here is 100% fact. You must be searching for me
huh?
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, April 7,
Why is ING stock down to $10 a share from $22 two decades ago. Size doesn’t
matter, profits do. You’re as financially savvy as you are IT savvy.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, April 7, 2023, 12:17 AM, David Crayford wrote:
On 7/4/23 12:12, Bill Johnson wrote:
> ING is maybe top
profitable.
>
> Doug Fuerst
> d...@bkassociates.net
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Sent: 06-Apr-23 20:19:39
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please
On 7/4/23 12:12, Bill Johnson wrote:
ING is maybe top 30. The stock has been a real dog losing half its value in the
last 20 years. A money loser. Any company that shut down their mainframe and
replaced it with Micro Focus, another company that loses money by the bushel,
isn’t much of a bank.
ING is maybe top 30. The stock has been a real dog losing half its value in the
last 20 years. A money loser. Any company that shut down their mainframe and
replaced it with Micro Focus, another company that loses money by the bushel,
isn’t much of a bank. They opened a challenger bank and shut
20:19:39
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
I did. Mellon Bank during the transition from retail bank to investment bank.
Retail banking sucks for profits. That’s why Citi is selling for 6 times
earnings. ING stock would have lost you a ton of money over t
On 7/4/23 06:07, René Jansen wrote:
They will be disappointed if they hear that, there are a fusion between
Rijkspostspaarbank, NMB (Nederlansche Middenstandsbank, Postcheque en
Girodienst, and Nationale Nederlanden. They are a very large bank in the
Netherlands. And yes they are off the
@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 06-Apr-23 20:19:39
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>I did. Mellon Bank during the transition from retail bank to investment bank.
>Retail banking sucks for profits. That’s why Citi is selling for 6 times
>earnings. ING
sage --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 06-Apr-23 19:16:58
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
Like I said, there’s little money in retail banking. And zero money t
And their stock performance has been dismal for decades.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, April 6, 2023, 6:07 PM, René Jansen
wrote:
They will be disappointed if they hear that, there are a fusion between
Rijkspostspaarbank, NMB (Nederlansche Middenstandsbank, Postcheque en
fe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 06-Apr-23 19:16:58
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
>Like I said, there’s little money in retail banking. And zero money to be made
>in challenger banking. It’s why they are all shrin
6:58
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
Like I said, there’s little money in retail banking. And zero money to be made in
challenger banking. It’s why they are all shrinking or closed. Mellon bank saw this
20+ years ago. ING & others are focusing more o
Like I said, there’s little money in retail banking. And zero money to be made
in challenger banking. It’s why they are all shrinking or closed. Mellon bank
saw this 20+ years ago. ING & others are focusing more on investment banking.
Mostly for the high net worth people but also people in our
00047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 06-Apr-23 18:13:55
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
I used to work at Mellon bank in Pittsburgh. Mellon shut down their retail
banking division to concentrate on the inv
More on ING.
Why is ING bank closed?Dutch banking giant ING is leaving the Philippine retail
banking market before the end of 2022. ING cited the “uncertain global macro
situation in the last few years” as the primary reason that led to it decision
to pull back from expanding activities in
I used to work at Mellon bank in Pittsburgh. Mellon shut down their retail
banking division to concentrate on the investment industry. Over 20 years ago.
Retail banking is a low profit business. Challenger banking is a no profit
business. Which is why they are failing.
Sent from Yahoo Mail
The know it all took a few days for this. ING is partially a bank but they
still shut down their challenger “quasi bank” YOLT. And the other challenger
“banks” are struggling. Funny how that happens when the cost of money
increases. And investors want profits and returns for their investments.
They will be disappointed if they hear that, there are a fusion between
Rijkspostspaarbank, NMB (Nederlansche Middenstandsbank, Postcheque en
Girodienst, and Nationale Nederlanden. They are a very large bank in the
Netherlands. And yes they are off the mainframe, running a lot of mainframe
Here’s some comments from the ING CEO. From 2016.
Speaking to The Register, he confirmed the finance giant still ran mainframes:
“You won’t find a bank without a mainframe, unless recently established.”
But, he continued, “We are extremely aggressively moving away from them.”
This was not
ING isn’t a bank either.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, April 6, 2023, 5:59 PM, David Crayford wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2023, at 11:20, Bill Johnson
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> I remember this.
> David Crayford said:
> ”I'm calling BS. None of the
> On 5 Apr 2023, at 11:20, Bill Johnson
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> I remember this.
> David Crayford said:
> ”I'm calling BS. None of the challenger banks (Startling, Yolt, Monzo,
> Moneze, N26 etc) run mainframes. They have millions of customers and are
>
I remember this.
David Crayford said:
”I'm calling BS. None of the challenger banks (Startling, Yolt, Monzo, Moneze,
N26 etc) run mainframes. They have millions of customers and are gaining
millions by the week at the expense of traditional banks.”
My response
Most of those “banks” aren’t
Ok, I'll bite: What's the difference between the ANY and OTHER conditions?
Oh, wait, cool! Does the ANY condition execute even any of the above
conditions evaluate as true?
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible
I also like CA-IDEAL. A little bit PL/I like with a nice SELECT statement:
Example:
SELECT TRANS_CODE
WHEN 'A'
DO ADD_RECORD_PROC
WHEN 'D'
DO DEL_RECORD_PROC
WHEN 'P'
DO PURCHASE_PROC
WHEN 'R'
DO RECEIPT_PROC
WHEN ANY
DO LOG_TRANS
WHEN OTHER
DO INVALID_CODE
ENDSEL
On Thu, Mar
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023, at 14:01, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> Too many languages lack ELSEIF and strong closure. Fie on
> the danglig ELSE!
An ALGOL variant (S-ALGOL) that I used at university differentiated
between, IIRC,
IF ... THEN ... ELSE
and
IF ... DO
which meant that as soon as the
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023, at 05:24, David Crayford wrote:
> The
> interviewer held out both hands, one with an open palm the other with a
> clenched fist and asked me "what hand is the ball bearing in"?.
And did they want the "obvious" answer - the clenched fist, or did they
want one of the more
On 29/3/23 22:16, Robert Prins wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 at 11:20, Seymour J Metz wrote:
"You can write FORTRAN in any language."
Too be fair, much of what I take for granted in PL/I control structures
was not in the original version, and IBM rejected the original SHARE
requirement for a
sion.
I'm not discouraging their use, nor am I necessarily encouraging it.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bernd Oppolzer
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 3:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM cal
Yes, I meant the latter, not the former. Sorry for the dyslexia.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 12:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE
I may have misunderstood you, Shmuel, but I think you must have meant "REXX
has only the latter". The REXX select statement looks like this:
select
when boolexpr1 then stm
when boolexpr2 then stm
otherwise stm; end
VBA, on the other hand, has only the former:
Select Case MyVar
bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 11:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 09:38:50 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>I suppose so, but I always use SELECT, never ELSEIF.
: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 11:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
As NetRexx does; but the label is optional.
> On 29 Mar 2023, at 17:18, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>> It's precious that Rexx allows identifying the E
List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 11:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
I'm going to disagree only in a tiny and technical way: ITERATE forces
:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 at 11:20, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> "You can write FORTRAN in any language."
>
> Too be fair, much of what I take for granted in PL/I
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 9:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE
I'm going to disagree only in a tiny and technical way: ITERATE forces more
discipline, but what that means is not that GOTO is less disciplined but that
GOTO ~allows~ less discipline. Back in my COBOL days I maintained that not all
GOTOs are evil; these three are just fine:
GOTO
inframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
> Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 9:29 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
>
>
IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:13:11 -0500, Joe Monk wrote:
>"Too many languages lack ELSEIF and strong closure. Fie on
>the danglig ELSE!"
>
>Now you know why COBOL programmers always i
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 09:38:50 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>I suppose so, but I always use SELECT, never ELSEIF. I think it's because
>with ELSEIF I feel compelled to indent each clause as if it were an "ELSE IF",
>
Sounds like a personal problem to me.
>and I abominate those long increasingly
I saw top down and bottom up structured code ideas. And somewhere
in there was Yourdon(?) structured "method". Meanwhile I was
mostly doing ALC in those days, unless I was needed to work on
applications under CICS, then it was COBOL.
Problem was, for CICS, straight line code was best and if
My degree is in Accounting, but I discovered computer programming during the
course of my studies and was thoroughly hooked; I went straight into
applications development after graduation. More than one prospective
employer looked at me with stars in their eyes saying "Oh, at last, a
programmer
>The source was unreadable because of the amount and size of copybooks.
>When compiled, the listing was so big that it was near impossible to
follow.
>Needless to say, the variable and paragraph names didn't help too much.
>Have you ever tried reading a DMS for CICS (again, 40 years ago)
Nah, there are no more COBOL programmers; their brains all rotted.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,
but too early to shoot the bastards. -Claire Wolfe, _101 Things to Do 'Til the
I suppose so, but I always use SELECT, never ELSEIF. I think it's because with
ELSEIF I feel compelled to indent each clause as if it were an "ELSE IF", and I
abominate those long increasingly indented constructions:
if expr1 then stm1
else if expr2 then stm2
else if expr3 then do
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:13:11 -0500, Joe Monk wrote:
>"Too many languages lack ELSEIF and strong closure. Fie on
>the danglig ELSE!"
>
>Now you know why COBOL programmers always indented their code ... it helps
>
Past tense? No longer?
>line up the IF...ELSE structure. That was of course before
And this is the reason I think complaints about Python's syntactic
indentation miss the point: it's simply the language using what you should
be doing anyway.
On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 8:13 AM Joe Monk wrote:
> "Too many languages lack ELSEIF and strong closure. Fie on
> the danglig ELSE!"
>
>
"Too many languages lack ELSEIF and strong closure. Fie on
the danglig ELSE!"
Now you know why COBOL programmers always indented their code ... it helps
line up the IF...ELSE structure. That was of course before VS COBOL II
(Cobol '85).
Joe
On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 8:01 AM Paul Gilmartin <
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 14:16:56 +, Robert Prins wrote:
>> w..., and IBM rejected the original SHARE
>> requirement for a CASE statement.
>
>But the SELECT statement that they added (before my time) later beats the
>crap out of CASE in C & Pascal.
>
Pascal CASE may have a performance
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 at 11:20, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> "You can write FORTRAN in any language."
>
> Too be fair, much of what I take for granted in PL/I control structures
> was not in the original version, and IBM rejected the original SHARE
> requirement for a CASE statement.
>
But the SELECT
du/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Wayne Bickerdike [wayn...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 3:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
Regardi
Regarding Michael Jackson structured programming.
My first role at ICI was applications programmer. My Senior programmer gave
me three program specs that were training specs. The specs came with
flowcharts. I duly programmed them in PL/I replete with IF THEN GOTO ELSE
GOTO statements. Not a trace
On 28/3/23 13:26, Tony Harminc wrote:
I use programming languages that I don't like all the time. C, in
particular, I dislike a lot. That doesn't mean they're not useful.
Whew! And I thought you were a C fanatic. Thanks for disabusing me of that.
Ha! I don't develop emotional attachments to
On 28/3/23 13:56, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
During my early training we were sent to learn Michael Jackson structured
programming.
I had a few brief years as an applications programmer back in the early
90s. I came from operations so I had to take the IBM aptitude test. The
interviewer held
It certainly does! Lots of applications developers hate that, but it always
seemed to me that it’s a necessary part of making usable code. If my users
never talked to me ("could you add a command arg that sorts the output this way
instead of that?"), I'd suspect - actually I'd be sure - that
the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
I just wasn't that devious, but yeah, happens in real shops more
than one cares to admit.
Steve Thompson
On 3/28/2023 6:20 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
> Ha! I always said if I ever taught programming -- I never have -- I was going
>
I just wasn't that devious, but yeah, happens in real shops more
than one cares to admit.
Steve Thompson
On 3/28/2023 6:20 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
Ha! I always said if I ever taught programming -- I never have -- I was going
to do that -- swap code between students.
The other thing I was
Ha! I always said if I ever taught programming -- I never have -- I was going
to do that -- swap code between students.
The other thing I was going to do in the same vein was give a programming
assignment -- perhaps with a fairly tight deadline -- and halfway through say
"oh, wait, the specs
Very good method ... I was teaching programming during my career, much
the same as you did,
but I never did it like that. But I also encouraged the students to
discuss their solutions with me
and with other students and required that there be comments and
meaningful variable names etc.
IMO,
In an effort to keep people from writing difficult to impossible
to maintain code, while I was teaching COBOL, I warned the
students that I would be picking a programming lesson, where once
it was completed, everyone would have to swap card decks and then
have to add the next lesson's function
PL/I (or actually PL/C) was the first language I was exposed to, also - took a
class in college while getting my Accounting degree - and I still think it's
wonderful. A classmate was interviewing me for a job with his employer a few
years later and asked me what I thought to be the principle
With the clever use of GOTOs and the use of different variables with
strange names
for the same purpose, you can even turn a less than 1000 lines COBOL
program completely unreadable.
I see such programs almost every day.
The biggest obstacle for keeping large COBOL programs maintainable is
Ok, to be fair I tnd to abbrvt evrthg I can and use two- and thr-chr var
nams. I couldn't do that if I were still writing application programs for
my employer. Instead I write tools, utilities and commands that anyone can
use but no one bothers to maintain. I try to be careful to use a
but this is an IBM product.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Thomas Kern
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
I haven't seen the inside of Waterloo
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
On 28/03/2023 9:34 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I once found myself defending the common idiom
>
> for (;;) {
>foo;
> }
>
> as a perfectly clear DO F
...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 11:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
I haven't seen the inside of Waterloo Script macros for al LONG time. It
will take me a while to get back into reading/debugging this just like
, 2023 11:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
You're close but this is an IBM product.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Thomas Kern
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:01 AM
To: IBM
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Schmitt, Michael [michael.schm...@dxc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
Yeah, but you can come back
You're close but this is an IBM product.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Thomas Kern
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]
I haven't seen
Hi Bill,
You said: "...It seems to help with maintenance and updating of large,
complex commercial programs..."
Back in the mid-'80s, I used to support a 3-letter software vendor's
Payroll package.
The source was unreadable because of the amount and size of copybooks.
When compiled, the
on
your keyboard? LOL
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Schmitt, Michael
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 9:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]
Yeah, but you can come back
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