"Everyone wants to retire mainframes ..."

Folks, That article: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/everyone-wants-to-retire-mainframes-but-74-of-modernization-efforts-fail/ -- has a nice historical photo at the top, but with no explanation whatsoever of the content of that picture. That is none other than (a then young)

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

M$ lookout automatically does top quoting and manually doing correct quoting is awkward. Gmail has similar issues. Legal disclaimers are normally appended by mail servers and the user has no control over them. The solution is to use a personal e-mail account, but some organizations prohibit

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

> What is it about tech bulletin boards where folks seem to want the most > relevant stuff -- > the new stuff -- at the BOTTOM??? The question contains assumptions contrary to fact. In the standard interspersed quoting style, the relevant stuff Immediately follows the text that it is in

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Some places won't accept HTML in e-mail due to security issues. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jackson, Rob [rwjack...@firsthorizon.com] Sent:

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

> I've always assumed that bottom-posters are just careless I've alway assumed that bottom posters have defective software, or are just careless. Although I miss the old BBS style: initials> instead of just >. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Quote style

More likes someone makes ten points in fifteen minutes and someone respond without anyone knowing which point he's responding to. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

> their "so called" standard was for newsgroups, not email RFC 2646, RFC 3676 -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent:

Re: How is Passive FTP with TLS and NAT supposed to work?

My cruddy email application (Outlook) doesn't do the >-style quoting (or at least I don't know how to make it), so let me try below with tabs; it will probably be ugly. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of

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Re: How is Passive FTP with TLS and NAT supposed to work?

THANK YOU. Yes, PASSIVEIGNOREADDR is the key (and BTW you can then eliminate CCC with its security exposure). Shows what a kludge FTP is. The client says "Let's go into passive mode. Tell me what IP address to use, and I will ignore it. Thank you. Because after all, I already know your IP

Re: How is Passive FTP with TLS and NAT supposed to work?

A yeah, my bad, that looks right. Details do count. I was going from faulty memory. :) Thanks! First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 12:28 PM To:

Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 13:17:11 +, Jackson, Rob wrote: >My cruddy email application (Outlook) doesn't do the >-style quoting (or at >least I don't know how to make it), so let me try below with tabs; it will >probably be ugly. > Does First Horizon require you to use Outlook? I mostly post

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

I'm no fan of Outlook, but top-posting doesn't bother me either. When it's necessary to address points, I say, see below. At least Outlook has HTML, so I generally change the font/color of my interleaved responses. Oh well. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Wait - is bottom-posting a thing? I've always assumed that bottom-posters are just careless; they read down to a certain point, and then type in their responses without thinking about where. Are you saying that some people post at the bottom ON PURPOSE?! Why, for heaven's sake? --- Bob

Re: Quote style

On 6/13/2020 10:57 AM, Pew, Curtis G wrote: On Jun 13, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Wait - is bottom-posting a thing? I've always assumed that bottom-posters are just careless; they read down to a certain point, and then type in their responses without thinking about where. Are

Re: Quote style

Tom, always the voice of reason. See below for my comment indicated by the less-than sign (open, angled bracket); that should be just the equivalent of > appearing on the quoted lines, right? First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

What is it with tech bulletin boards and the fuss about top-posting? I will bet I have gotten tens of thousands of business e-mail replies in my life and every single one of them was "top-posted." What is it about tech bulletin boards where folks seem to want the most relevant stuff -- the

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Outlook or OWA is required; access to private email service is blocked while on the network. Top-posting isn't enforced. Didn't you see my awesome manual job? I could edit quoted text. I cannot control the legal disclaimer; that's added after it leaves the Outbox. It's all audit; don't

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

On 2020-06-13, at 11:21:19, Charles Mills wrote: > > What is it with tech bulletin boards and the fuss about top-posting? > In some part tradition. > I will bet I have gotten tens of thousands of business e-mail replies in my > life and every single one of them was "top-posted." > > What is

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

On Jun 13, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > > Wait - is bottom-posting a thing? I've always assumed that bottom-posters > are just careless; they read down to a certain point, and then type in their > responses without thinking about where. Are you saying that some people post > at

Re: Quote style

Tom's opinion: Top posting is like a meeting where one person talks, everybody hears it, and the conversation continues without having to explain the whole meeting each time. When someone new comes along though, it would be nice to have a chronological history of what happened before -

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

"See below" is more silly than "I'm Gil, therefore 'see below' is implied?" Seriously? Besides, "see below" in my previous post was abbreviated for the point; since it matters so much, what I would typically say is, "see below for my answers in red." First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:21:19AM -0700, Charles Mills wrote: > What is it with tech bulletin boards and the fuss about top-posting? > I will bet I have gotten tens of thousands of business e-mail > replies in my life and every single one of them was "top-posted." Business: building roads too

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Le 13/06/2020 à 22:13, Tony Thigpen a écrit : >> Wait - is bottom-posting a thing? > Also, back in those days, it was clearly pointed out to the developers > that their "so called" standard was for newsgroups, not email but they > were stuck deep in their "we know what is right" mode. They also

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

> Wait - is bottom-posting a thing? YES! The old newsgroup specification said bottom-posting was required. Back when I started using Thunderbird as an email client (around 2002?), TB forced you to bottom-post and it took a special hidden option to allow top-posting. And, it did not really

Re: HOW DO I VERIFY A USERID'S ACCESS TO A DATASET

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 09:10:01 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main (Message-ID:) Michael DeChirico wrote: Are there any hlasm code examples on how to user RACROUTE to verify a userid's access to read/write a dataset? Check CBT file 106: http://www.cbttape.org/ftp/cbt/CBT106.zip There are

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Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 22:07:05 -0400, Tony Thigpen wrote: >And, I have worked for companies that required you to leave all the >previous emails being quoted. > That's what archives are for. That's what "In-Reply-To:" headers are for. A companiy having such a concern should provide a viewer that

Re: Quote style

That doesn't exist for OWA (the office365 web client). -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Gibney, Dave [gib...@wsu.edu] Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:03

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

On 6/13/20 11:46 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: Wait - is bottom-posting a thing? Yes! Very MUCH so! I've always assumed that bottom-posters are just careless; they read down to a certain point, and then type in their responses without thinking about where. I'm sure there are some that are as

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

I'm kind of rabid about including options in the programs I write, pretty much any option I can think might be useful if it isn't too hard to write in. How can ~I~ know what the user will find useful? So if I can ask, that's great, but sometimes it's not possible. Maybe Microsoft overdoes it

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

The point being that they were using a standard for type of communications, usenet, and trying to apply it to another form of communication, email. For me, the second I see a bottom post, is the same second I close the email and go to the next in my inbox. Tony Thigpen Seymour J Metz wrote

Re: HOW DO I VERIFY A USERID'S ACCESS TO A DATASET

Hi Colleagues, Here is my solution ... 1) An Assembler program ... Does not to be APF Authorized, if ESM is RACF. (If ESM is ACF/2 or TSS, it needs APF Authorization). 2) A Rexx Exec RACROUTE TITLE 'RACROUTE STATUS=ACCESS' RACROUTE CSECT , RACROUTE AMODE 31 RACROUTE RMODE ANY SAVE 

Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes ..."

> honorary rank of "Rear Admiral" She was honorable, but her rank of rear admiral (lower half) was official. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mark S

Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes ..."

She came to speak at A University in NC where I worked a couple years, back in the late '70s. I didn't go to hear it - didn't sound all that interesting to me - but my boss came back from it with one of her nanoseconds and from his description I've regretted it ever since. Oh, well, I had my

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

The problem that I have with m$ is not that they have too many options but that they either don't have the options I need or they cleverly hide them. I'm forced to use office365 on this e-mail account, and if there are options to support, e.g., showing headers with the message body, correct

Re: HOW DO I VERIFY A USERID'S ACCESS TO A DATASET

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:58:52 -0400, Arthur wrote: >On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 09:10:01 -0700 (PDT), Michael DeChirico wrote: > >>Are there any hlasm code examples on how to user RACROUTE >>to verify a userid's access to read/write a dataset? > It has been written here by Walt Farrell, among others:

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

And, I have worked for companies that required you to leave all the previous emails being quoted. They found that too many times people were quoting just the right statements to leave the impression that the original poster said something they did not. Next thing, everybody thought "Joe" said

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Old WP users, among whom I count myself, mourn the loss of reveal-codes mode. When my company switched from WP to Word (which I still think was largely my fault), I judged that Word was easier to use for the easy things - italics and bold at keystroke, for instance - but harder to control for the

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Initials>, really? I didn't know anyone else does that. My best friend in high school moved to another state, and we started writing long letters to each other, swapping a little news but mostly debating religion. (He'd become an agnostic at about the time I became a religious fanatic.) When

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

Yes, they do sometimes. I got into the habit of cleaning up emails before replying to them: removing signatures, some of the headers (but always leaving the From and Date lines), sometimes even some of the content, as some of us do here. But I had a boss recently who objects strenuously to that

Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes ..."

Reminds me of a box of nanoseconds that the company I work for bought, containing long spools of fiber to test (or more likely prove that it won't work?) various km distances between sysplexed mainframes. http://www.mildredbrennan.com/mvs/fiber_spools.png On 6/13/2020 4:34 PM, Mark S

Re: HOW DO I VERIFY A USERID'S ACCESS TO A DATASET

Gil, you mustn't think I plan to make it a habit but I think I'm going to disagree with you on every point, here: o Well, maybe not on the first one: What's "TOCTTOU"? o Access rules are indeed complicated to simulate. But why simulate them? Just ask RACROUTE and get an answer. Mind you

Re: HOW DO I VERIFY A USERID'S ACCESS TO A DATASET

On 13 Jun 2020 21:22:07 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main (Message-ID:) dspiegel...@hotmail.com (David Spiegel) wrote: Here is my solution ... 1) An Assembler program ... Does not to be APF Authorized, if ESM is RACF. (If ESM is ACF/2 or TSS, it needs APF Authorization). Your program asks

Re: Quote style (was: ... Passive FTP ... )

No, the point is that, e.g., RFC 3676, applies to e-mail: The Text/Plain media type is the lowest common denominator of Internet email, The only mention of Usenet is in 4.3. Usenet Signature Convention. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

Re: Quote style

In Outlook, it's File -> Options -> Mal, scroll down a bit to Replies and Forwarding > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Jackson, Rob > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:58 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Quote style > > Tom, always

Re: HOW DO I VERIFY A USERID'S ACCESS TO A DATASET

Hi Arthur, I am aware of CBT 106. I presented my solution in case the user wanted to know if s/he had access. If so, s/he could avoid all of the paperwork and permission required to change IKJTSOxx etc. (which is probably almost never granted). I had a job at a large bank and asked for IKJTSOxx

Re: Separate SMPe environments for maintenance levels

We run with multiple maintenance levels, and clone to active environments as required. 1. multiple GLOBAL zones - one per product subsystem, some for specific vendors, and others as required. 2. each global zone has multiple target/dlib sets. 3. multiple maintenance target/dlib sets, with a