Re: Another reason to hate the time change
John McKown wrote: We produce reports on our z/OS CPU utilization. They are reported in local time, with a.m. and p.m.. Because apparently only military (and pilots) understand Zulu time. So, twice a year, I must explain why we never seem to have any activity on Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the spring, and how we manage to run so much work on one Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the fall. The reason, of course, is the stupid time change. 02:00 to 03:00 does not exist on Spring Forward Sunday, and from 02:00 to 03:00 is a two hour period on Fall Backwards Sunday. And every year, I hear the WTF??? on Monday morning. sigh/ Easy. Warn them before those troublesome time and when they b*tch, refer them to your warning. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: That's something I observe in US (people don't understand such gismo like 17:15). Here, in Poland every official time table, even on bus stop use 24h clock. Of course we use local time, and we don't use 'Zulu' name, rather GMT (incorretly, but who cares) or UTC. Of course we also don't use feet or pints... Great. Your country is Ok! We have the same here. We use 'ton/hectare' for wheat, maize, etc where those yankees uses 'bushels/acre'. Mind you, bushel is volume, not weight... Regarding to mainframe: since I installed STP, the time change is something I don't care. CICS also adjust the time immediately (it's rather new feature). We did care when we installed STP. We intentionally 'lost' two hours and restarted all our toys including the STP. I specifically wrote Assembler, COBOL and REXX programs to verify our conversion by using all the different macros to extract times in various formats and locality. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
John Gilmore wrote: Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. Adopt it for your report, explaining what it is in an attached text note for the first 15 days for which it is used. Thats what I use for all my RACF reports. 24 hour instead of that lame 12 hours with AM/PM junk. Dump it, and tough out the complaints you will hear. They will subside quickly, and you will be surprised to discover that you have many allies. Correct. Also, they wanted me to make my reports showing mm/dd/ using the stupid convention here in South Africa. I simply kept them at /mm/dd. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Being retired U.S. Navy (21 years), when my kids were growing up I got them to learn 24 hour time by setting all the digital clocks in the house to the 24-hour display. Including the clocks in our cars that supported it. Thanks, Mark Regan From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:11 PM Subject: Re: Another reason to hate the time change Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. Adopt it for your report, explaining what it is in an attached text note for the first 15 days for which it is used. The twelve-hour clock has nothing to recommend it. Anciently, there were not two but three suffixes, viz., o AM, ante meridiem, as in antebellum or antecedent, before noon, o M, meridies, noon, middle of the day, and o PM, post meridiem, as in postwar, afternoon. This scheme did parse, but dumbing down has destroyed it The latin case endings are now all but unknown; hoi polloi have somehow lost meridies and M entirely; and I now hear speculation about whether noon is AM or PM, about whether, that is, it is noon before noon or noon after noon. Dump it, and tough out the complaints you will hear. They will subside quickly, and you will be surprised to discover that you have many allies. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
A lot of non-military people in Canada use it. Especially in IT. - -teD - Original Message From: Scott Ford Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 21:57 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: Another reason to hate the time change In Europe we used the 24 hr clock... Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Mar 10, 2014, at 3:15 PM, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. A diminishing number of Americans have that experience. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:06:36 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: We did care when we installed STP. We intentionally 'lost' two hours and restarted all our toys including the STP. I specifically wrote Assembler, COBOL and REXX programs to verify our conversion by using all the different macros to extract times in various formats and locality. Interesting. What range of localities? Will it convert only the present time, or also archival times? E.g. 6 months ago, or the U.S. prior to 2006. Of course, z/OS UNIX strftime() will do most of that, barring pre-2006. But that has LE entanglements. On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 05:08:09 -0700, Mark Regan wrote: Being retired U.S. Navy (21 years), when my kids were growing up I got them to learn 24 hour time by setting all the digital clocks in the house to the 24-hour display. Including the clocks in our cars that supported it. Me too. My wristwatch and my computer(s). My wristwatch has dual time; I set the other to GMT. My microwave oven and my clock radio don't support 24-hour. My bicycle computer is peculiar: it offers either km/24-hour or mi/12-hour, but not the other two quadrants. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Paul Gilmartin wrote: We did care when we installed STP. We intentionally 'lost' two hours and restarted all our toys including the STP. I specifically wrote Assembler, COBOL and REXX programs to verify our conversion by using all the different macros to extract times in various formats and locality. Interesting. What range of localities? Groan. I should restate it otherwise. Sorry, for misleading you by using a wrong word, 'locality'. It was not my intent. I meant Local Time and should have mentioned Zulu Time. I meant, when I did the tests, I use the LOCAL time and also the Zulu time (Greenwich time). We have only one timezone in South Africa and we don't bother [1] with Daylight saving. (I wish we do it, since we're nearer to South Pole than to civilized lands. :-D ) [1] - Some guys indeed tried to have Daylight saving to be used in South Africa but to no avail. It is a pity because sunrise and sunset are indeed different: Cape Town: Sunrise 6:42 Sunset 19:09 Durban: Sunrise 05:53 Sunset 18:17 Pretoria: Sunrise 06:06 Sunset 18:27 A Durbanite will in the first few days, when in Cape Town, looks worryingly to his watch when it is already 19:00... ;-) In my tests I used in REXX these: SYSCALL TIME and SYSCALL GMTIME and variants of TIME() functions. In COBOL: CEELOCT, CEEDATM, CEEGMTO, TIME Assembler: Variants of TIME macro in LT or GMT Zones. All those boring tests just to pacify my worrying users during the STP installation... ;-) Will it convert only the present time, or also archival times? We were concerned about the present time because many of our processes need current (present) time in both those time zones. During Y2K drama, I was concerned about archival times, because it has an impact on ability to recover data. (RACF and ADSM amongst a lot of other date/time sensitive products and backup software.) But that has LE entanglements. That entanglements (CEE stuff) confused me initially... :-) My bicycle computer is peculiar: it offers either km/24-hour or mi/12-hour, but not the other two quadrants. Hahahahahaha! :-D That is a cool computer, sort of... :-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Set bicycle computer to desired clock. Adjust the tire size calibration number to yield the correct distance in the other measuring system. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: don't support 24-hour. My bicycle computer is peculiar: it offers either km/24-hour or mi/12-hour, but not the other two quadrants. -- gil -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
On 11 March 2014 08:48, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: My microwave oven and my clock radio don't support 24-hour. Microwave ovens are an odd case, because some support 24-hour time, but most don't. But more interestingly many of them support a curious mixed-base notation. So I can set my coffee to heat for 1:30 minutes or 90 seconds. In my case the display counts down following what I entered, but I saw one once that instantly converted an entered number of seconds exceeding 59 to the h:m:s base when I hit start. My bicycle computer is peculiar: it offers either km/24-hour or mi/12-hour, but not the other two quadrants. It's probably based on UNIX/POSIX, which has the BAD notion of locale. I've been trying to set Eclipse to use ISO 8601 dates and times, and the closest I've got is to set the locale to sv_SE, which of course breaks other things. This is one of those rare cases where Windows gets it not just practically, but conceptually right. Though I notice that in Windows 8 they seem to have removed some date format choices! Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
John, Stupid is as stupid does is all I can say. The type of people you allude to will always exist, sadly Regards, Mitch -Original Message- From: John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Mon, Mar 10, 2014 9:59 am Subject: Another reason to hate the time change We produce reports on our z/OS CPU utilization. They are reported in local ime, with a.m. and p.m.. Because apparently only military (and pilots) nderstand Zulu time. So, twice a year, I must explain why we never seem to ave any activity on Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the spring, and how we anage to run so much work on one Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the fall. he reason, of course, is the stupid time change. 02:00 to 03:00 does not xist on Spring Forward Sunday, and from 02:00 to 03:00 is a two hour eriod on Fall Backwards Sunday. And every year, I hear the WTF??? on onday morning. sigh/ -- asn't there something about a PASCAL programmer knowing the value of verything and the Wirth of nothing? Maranatha! ohn McKown -- or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 11:58:53 -0500, John McKown wrote: We produce reports on our z/OS CPU utilization. They are reported in local time, with a.m. and p.m.. Because apparently only military (and pilots) understand Zulu time. So, twice a year, I must explain why we never seem to have any activity on Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the spring, and how we manage to run so much work on one Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the fall. The reason, of course, is the stupid time change. 02:00 to 03:00 does not exist on Spring Forward Sunday, and from 02:00 to 03:00 is a two hour period on Fall Backwards Sunday. And every year, I hear the WTF??? on Monday morning. sigh/ So, disambiguate by reporting the times separately for that hour in the Fall, and not at all for that hour in the Spring, and qualifying with EST or EDT. Yes, there would be a 25-line report in the Fall, and a 23-line report in the Spring. Deal with it; SMOP. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Let me guess. This is another of those mainframe limitations because the windows team doesn't have to report utilization therefore the problem isn't seen over there. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Another reason to hate the time change We produce reports on our z/OS CPU utilization. They are reported in local time, with a.m. and p.m.. Because apparently only military (and pilots) understand Zulu time. So, twice a year, I must explain why we never seem to have any activity on Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the spring, and how we manage to run so much work on one Sunday from 02:00 to 03:00 in the fall. The reason, of course, is the stupid time change. 02:00 to 03:00 does not exist on Spring Forward Sunday, and from 02:00 to 03:00 is a two hour period on Fall Backwards Sunday. And every year, I hear the WTF??? on Monday morning. sigh/ -- Wasn't there something about a PASCAL programmer knowing the value of everything and the Wirth of nothing? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 11:58:53 -0500, John McKown wrote: We produce reports on our z/OS CPU utilization. They are reported in local time, with a.m. and p.m.. Because apparently only military (and pilots) understand Zulu time. That's something I observe in US (people don't understand such gismo like 17:15). Here, in Poland every official time table, even on bus stop use 24h clock. Of course we use local time, and we don't use 'Zulu' name, rather GMT (incorretly, but who cares) or UTC. Of course we also don't use feet or pints... Regarding to mainframe: since I installed STP, the time change is something I don't care. CICS also adjust the time immediately (it's rather new feature). -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. Adopt it for your report, explaining what it is in an attached text note for the first 15 days for which it is used. The twelve-hour clock has nothing to recommend it. Anciently, there were not two but three suffixes, viz., o AM, ante meridiem, as in antebellum or antecedent, before noon, o M, meridies, noon, middle of the day, and o PM, post meridiem, as in postwar, afternoon. This scheme did parse, but dumbing down has destroyed it The latin case endings are now all but unknown; hoi polloi have somehow lost meridies and M entirely; and I now hear speculation about whether noon is AM or PM, about whether, that is, it is noon before noon or noon after noon. Dump it, and tough out the complaints you will hear. They will subside quickly, and you will be surprised to discover that you have many allies. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. A diminishing number of Americans have that experience. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Many non-military people are also familiar with the 24-hour clock, such as my wife, who was in nursing for 40 years. American medical people are all fluent in 24-hour TODs. Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:11:43 PM Subject: Re: Another reason to hate the time change Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. Adopt it for your report, explaining what it is in an attached text note for the first 15 days for which it is used. The twelve-hour clock has nothing to recommend it. Anciently, there were not two but three suffixes, viz., o AM, ante meridiem, as in antebellum or antecedent, before noon, o M, meridies, noon, middle of the day, and o PM, post meridiem, as in postwar, afternoon. This scheme did parse, but dumbing down has destroyed it The latin case endings are now all but unknown; hoi polloi have somehow lost meridies and M entirely; and I now hear speculation about whether noon is AM or PM, about whether, that is, it is noon before noon or noon after noon. Dump it, and tough out the complaints you will hear. They will subside quickly, and you will be surprised to discover that you have many allies. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John Gilmore Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. Adopt it for your report, explaining what it is in an attached text note for the first 15 days for which it is used. The twelve-hour clock has nothing to recommend it. Anciently, there were not two but three suffixes, viz., o AM, ante meridiem, as in antebellum or antecedent, before noon, o M, meridies, noon, middle of the day, and o PM, post meridiem, as in postwar, afternoon. This scheme did parse, but dumbing down has destroyed it The latin case endings are now all but unknown; hoi polloi have somehow lost meridies and M entirely; and I now hear speculation about whether noon is AM or PM, about whether, that is, it is noon before noon or noon after noon. Since the duration of noon is infinitesimal, why bother with it? -jc- ** Information contained in this e-mail message and in any attachments thereto is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems, notify the sender immediately, and refrain from using or disclosing all or any part of its content to any other person. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
Without conscription the fraction of Americans who have military experience is certainly now diminishing. Let us hope that it will continue to drop, but I doubt that it will. It diminished sharply after WWI, in the 1920s and 1930s; but WWII sent it up again, sharply . Moreover, our 'volunteer' American military is showing signs of fatigue. Its members are being redeployed into combat zones much too frequently. Their periods of respite are now, in the words of the Scots poet, short and far between. My point was, however, a different one. It was that if the millions of Americans who have served in the military were able to master the 24-hour clock almost anyone else can do so too. The intellectual difficulties of doing so have been greatly exaggerated. American specialism about things like the 12-hour clock and the English system of weights and measures grows ever more tedious and dysfunctional. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 19:34:19 +, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John Gilmore Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. Adopt it for your report, explaining what it is in an attached text note for the first 15 days for which it is used. The twelve-hour clock has nothing to recommend it. Anciently, there were not two but three suffixes, viz., o AM, ante meridiem, as in antebellum or antecedent, before noon, o M, meridies, noon, middle of the day, and o PM, post meridiem, as in postwar, afternoon. This scheme did parse, but dumbing down has destroyed it The latin case endings are now all but unknown; hoi polloi have somehow lost meridies and M entirely; and I now hear speculation about whether noon is AM or PM, about whether, that is, it is noon before noon or noon after noon. Since the duration of noon is infinitesimal, why bother with it? Because noon and midnight are unambiguous time specifications, unlike 12 p.m. and 12 a.m. which few people know how to use properly in my experience. -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 19:34:19 +, Chase, John wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John Gilmore The latin case endings are now all but unknown; hoi polloi have somehow lost meridies and M entirely; and I now hear speculation about whether noon is AM or PM, about whether, that is, it is noon before noon or noon after noon. Since the duration of noon is infinitesimal, why bother with it? To distinguish it from midnight. BTW, what is the neoLatin indication for midnight, 12:00 ??? I am unmoved by the argument, Of course noon is PM, because when I glance at my watch and it reads '12:00' it's actually some few seconds after noon. (Except for a set of measure zero.) And buses at the local RTD terminal depart at 1 minute after the scheduled time to appease passengers who complain, I arrived, breathless, at the station to see the back of the departing bus, but the official terminal digital clock didn't change until 5 seconds later. And midnight entails a date ambiguity. Some events are scheduled at 11:59 PM or 12:01 AM to circumvent this ambiguity. 00:00 means following day; 24:00 (which shouldn't be used at all) means prior day. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
John, Did you serve ? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Mar 10, 2014, at 3:40 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: Without conscription the fraction of Americans who have military experience is certainly now diminishing. Let us hope that it will continue to drop, but I doubt that it will. It diminished sharply after WWI, in the 1920s and 1930s; but WWII sent it up again, sharply . Moreover, our 'volunteer' American military is showing signs of fatigue. Its members are being redeployed into combat zones much too frequently. Their periods of respite are now, in the words of the Scots poet, short and far between. My point was, however, a different one. It was that if the millions of Americans who have served in the military were able to master the 24-hour clock almost anyone else can do so too. The intellectual difficulties of doing so have been greatly exaggerated. American specialism about things like the 12-hour clock and the English system of weights and measures grows ever more tedious and dysfunctional. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
In Europe we used the 24 hr clock... Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD On Mar 10, 2014, at 3:15 PM, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: Every American who has been in the military has perforce mastered and used the 24-hour clock. A diminishing number of Americans have that experience. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
The notion that Of course noon is PM is wholly inadmissible, indeed obscene, to anyone for whom the equivalence 'post meridiem' = 'after noon' is alive and immediate. There is, I am sure, a generational difference here. With Quine, I also find the use of data in the singular obscene. Worry not, however! Those of us who do will all be dead soon. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Another reason to hate the time change
What am I missing? How does using a 24-hour clock help here with the OP's problem? My suggestion would be to report in GMT and ignore timezones, but I'm sure that won't fly... On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:07 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: The notion that Of course noon is PM is wholly inadmissible, indeed obscene, to anyone for whom the equivalence 'post meridiem' = 'after noon' is alive and immediate. There is, I am sure, a generational difference here. With Quine, I also find the use of data in the singular obscene. Worry not, however! Those of us who do will all be dead soon. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
