Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Bill, Think EAV volume... I just had a lot of fun with this very scenario building DEFRAG experiments. 2x1 track dataset, and then delete every second dataset across 256 volumes. Who would have thought that the UCAT size would be my biggest problem (5 million datasets). Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of DASDBILL2 Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Implicit VVDS creation The theoretical worst case for a TSO pack is that every track on the volume could be a single-track data set, except for the following: volume label track, VTOC, VTOC index, and VVDS. And each such single-track data set would need at least one DSCB (Format 1) record in the VTOC, and you can only get about 50 of them on each VTOC track. Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:44:08 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Doug: Any TSO pack is a mandatory larger VTOC and a larger VVDS. A *LONG* time ago I had a TSO pack that needed a 5 cylinder vtoc. I don't expect that has changed and if SMS managed a larger than typical VVDS as well. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: It's true, but I get alot of datasets in a small VTOC too. I can't actually recall ever having to allocate a VVDS except for a very special situation. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 1:47:17 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Doug: Somewhere along the line I though SMS datasets requires an entry for each one. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
I recall it was 1/3 of the way in, and the idea was nuked by cache (3880-13/23). No point clustering your busiest datasets together 1/3 or 1/2 of the way into the volume when they are usually cache resident. You create a nice quiet area on the platter for seeking between those less busy datasets. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 1:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Implicit VVDS creation As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) That pra It stopped nattering long before RAID came out. 3380-K was when IBM stopped recommending it. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Skip Robinson Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 14:12 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Aside from the how of creating your own VVDS, I'm concerned about the why. OK, if an existing VVDS fills up, that's a why. Otherwise, you might consider creating your own VVDS at the outset if the default size or location is likely not appropriate for the volume. For example, a huge volume like a Mod-54 or any that will likely hold a myriad of small data sets might well need a larger VVDS. OTOH a volume for JES, page, or XCF data sets will likely never need more than a minuscule VVDS. As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) That practice no longer makes sense in the era of RAID, so generally aim for the lowest address possible. Especially for JES and page volumes, location or size of VTOC and VVDS can reduce the usable space for very large single-extent data sets. In these cases, very small VTOC and VVDS (if needed) should be scrunched into the first few tracks. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Cosby, Bob - OCFO bob.co...@nfc.usda.gov To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 02/07/2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Just ran into a situation where the VVDS was filling up; 10,10 was not working. Our DBMB group was installing DB2 V10 which has to be SMS managed and were placing hundred of DSNs on one mod-3. So I INIT'ed them as INIT UNIT(560D) VOLID(DBJ555) VTOC(1,0,60) VFY(TS560D) - INDEX(0,1,14) STGR -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 12:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re:group Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
That sounds like GTFPARS. It used to read a GTF trace and generate IEHLIST for the volumes it found. It used to generate a kewl seek histogram, and a dataset seek activity report you could use to tune the location of your busiest datasets. I used to tune SYSRES dataset positions using this, but the first 3880-23 invalidated the report as it was showing datasets with the highest cache hit rates also had the highest seek counts - considered it broken once we started buying all 3990-3. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Zelden Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 1:22 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Implicit VVDS creation Could have been. That was a batch tool only that used GTF like trace data IIRC, and may have even read GTF input. There were others, including Astex, which CA acquired through Legent. Like most of the Legent products, it was very good. But I really liked FASTDASD's ability to create FDR Compaktor control statements to order data sets close to the VTOC (to carry over to another thread on this topic). I used to run it on the live sysres and use Compaktor to combine extents, compress and re-order data sets on my target sysres after applying maintenance. Oh... those were the days. :-) Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS ITIL v3 Foundation Certified mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/ On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:10:06 +, Linda Mooney linda.lst...@comcast.net wrote: Sounds like CA's FastDASD. - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 10:27:44 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation There was a DASD Seek Analysis tool. Don't know if it was Candle or somebody else. Our tuning folks used the heck out of it for Storage volumes back then. When we got out E's ISPF didn't support them! In a message dated 2/10/2014 8:25:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, rpomm...@sfgmembers.com writes: VTOC, VTOCIX, and VVDS all sitting nicely right next to each other. Some at the beginning of the volume, some 1/3 of the way through depending on the type of data that was going to reside on the volume. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
DMS and another large DASD management product suite called SAMS were marketed by Sterling for many years before CA acquired Sterling in ca. 1999. Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:00:14 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation That makes more sense. We had their DASD Mgt Product DMS(?) and that was about the time they ran me off. In a message dated 2/10/2014 4:47:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, dasdbi...@comcast.net writes: If it was called FastDASD, then it was either Software Corp. of America's -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
In 5873965579866770.wa.markmzelden@listserv.ua.edu, on 02/10/2014 at 08:41 AM, Mark Zelden m...@mzelden.com said: Yes, of course the VVDS existed. Been there since ICF (MVS/SP 1.3 ?). DF/EF provided the ICF. Later on DFP came along and included DF/DS and DF/EF. Neither was bundled with MVS/SP. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
In 6330372289028276.wa.markmzelden@listserv.ua.edu, on 02/10/2014 at 03:22 PM, Mark Zelden m...@mzelden.com said: Could have been. That was a batch tool only that used GTF like trace data IIRC, and may have even read GTF input. I vaguely recall that CMF had a seek optimizer that used GTF data. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:32:59 -0800, Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote: As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) Yes, of course the VVDS existed. Been there since ICF (MVS/SP 1.3 ?). I don't agree or disagree. I will say that I always put them up front as contiguous space was more import to me back then and the majority of the shops I was at did the same thing. But there were also a large number that did it exactly like you. BTW, your point about one size does not fit all is a good one. The default size I set is for 3390-9, but because we have a large number of 3390-27 and 3390-54 is probably why the storage team defines the VVDS at the time they provision the volume for use. I have no EAV experience yet. Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS ITIL v3 Foundation Certified mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Actually IBM stopped recommending the 1/3 up the pack with 3380-D/E. In the 1980's. I made the old recommendation and they corrected me. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Pommier, Rex Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 10:02 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Skip, Yup, VVDSes existed way back then. I remember initializing new 3380Ds and Es, and trying to get the VTOC, VTOCIX, and VVDS all sitting nicely right next to each other. Some at the beginning of the volume, some 1/3 of the way through depending on the type of data that was going to reside on the volume. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Skip Robinson Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 12:33 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Aside from the how of creating your own VVDS, I'm concerned about the why. OK, if an existing VVDS fills up, that's a why. Otherwise, you might consider creating your own VVDS at the outset if the default size or location is likely not appropriate for the volume. For example, a huge volume like a Mod-54 or any that will likely hold a myriad of small data sets might well need a larger VVDS. OTOH a volume for JES, page, or XCF data sets will likely never need more than a minuscule VVDS. As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) That practice no longer makes sense in the era of RAID, so generally aim for the lowest address possible. Especially for JES and page volumes, location or size of VTOC and VVDS can reduce the usable space for very large single-extent data sets. In these cases, very small VTOC and VVDS (if needed) should be scrunched into the first few tracks. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Cosby, Bob - OCFO bob.co...@nfc.usda.gov To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 02/07/2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Just ran into a situation where the VVDS was filling up; 10,10 was not working. Our DBMB group was installing DB2 V10 which has to be SMS managed and were placing hundred of DSNs on one mod-3. So I INIT'ed them as INIT UNIT(560D) VOLID(DBJ555) VTOC(1,0,60) VFY(TS560D) - INDEX(0,1,14) STGR -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 12:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re:group Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
The default value for implicitly defined VVDSes can now be specified in the IGGCATxx member of PARMLIB, which is relatively new (z/OS v1.13): VVDSSPACE(primary,secondary) Specifies the number of tracks for primary and secondary allocations that the Catalog Address Space (CAS) should use for an implicitly defined VVDS. The specified values are preserved across a CAS restart and are applied at IPL. If a zero secondary value is specified on a VVDSPSACE(pri,sec) parameter and the primary value is valid, then on an IPL, a default of 10 tracks will be substituted for the secondary. On a restart of the Catalog Address Space the value that existed prior to the CAS restart is retained. The default is VVDSSPACE(10,10). regards, Joe D'Alessandro -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
There was a DASD Seek Analysis tool. Don't know if it was Candle or somebody else. Our tuning folks used the heck out of it for Storage volumes back then. When we got out E's ISPF didn't support them! In a message dated 2/10/2014 8:25:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, rpomm...@sfgmembers.com writes: VTOC, VTOCIX, and VVDS all sitting nicely right next to each other. Some at the beginning of the volume, some 1/3 of the way through depending on the type of data that was going to reside on the volume. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Sounds like CA's FastDASD. - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 10:27:44 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation There was a DASD Seek Analysis tool. Don't know if it was Candle or somebody else. Our tuning folks used the heck out of it for Storage volumes back then. When we got out E's ISPF didn't support them! In a message dated 2/10/2014 8:25:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, rpomm...@sfgmembers.com writes: VTOC, VTOCIX, and VVDS all sitting nicely right next to each other. Some at the beginning of the volume, some 1/3 of the way through depending on the type of data that was going to reside on the volume. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Could have been. That was a batch tool only that used GTF like trace data IIRC, and may have even read GTF input. There were others, including Astex, which CA acquired through Legent. Like most of the Legent products, it was very good. But I really liked FASTDASD's ability to create FDR Compaktor control statements to order data sets close to the VTOC (to carry over to another thread on this topic). I used to run it on the live sysres and use Compaktor to combine extents, compress and re-order data sets on my target sysres after applying maintenance. Oh... those were the days. :-) Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS ITIL v3 Foundation Certified mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/ On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:10:06 +, Linda Mooney linda.lst...@comcast.net wrote: Sounds like CA's FastDASD. - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 10:27:44 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation There was a DASD Seek Analysis tool. Don't know if it was Candle or somebody else. Our tuning folks used the heck out of it for Storage volumes back then. When we got out E's ISPF didn't support them! In a message dated 2/10/2014 8:25:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, rpomm...@sfgmembers.com writes: VTOC, VTOCIX, and VVDS all sitting nicely right next to each other. Some at the beginning of the volume, some 1/3 of the way through depending on the type of data that was going to reside on the volume. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Don't think we had that at that time. The folks that used it have gone off grid(retired). Used to have a SHARE presentation on what we had, but it's up in the attic. ASG MSX, CA(UCCEL) 1,7,10. MORINO MICS, CANDLE and a couple that I don't remember vendor. One for PAGEDELs and a LINKLST loader for frequently referenced modules. Maybe Duquenes. In a message dated 2/10/2014 3:10:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, linda.lst...@comcast.net writes: Sounds like CA's FastDASD -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
If it was called FastDASD, then it was either Software Corp. of America's or CA's (which bought SCA in late 1985). Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:27:44 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation There was a DASD Seek Analysis tool. Don't know if it was Candle or somebody else. Our tuning folks used the heck out of it for Storage volumes back then. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
That makes more sense. We had their DASD Mgt Product DMS(?) and that was about the time they ran me off. In a message dated 2/10/2014 4:47:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, dasdbi...@comcast.net writes: If it was called FastDASD, then it was either Software Corp. of America's -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
I remember our SE coming up with a tape that had this on so I think at least his version as IBM's. Ed On Feb 10, 2014, at 3:10 PM, Linda Mooney wrote: Sounds like CA's FastDASD. - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 10:27:44 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation There was a DASD Seek Analysis tool. Don't know if it was Candle or somebody else. Our tuning folks used the heck out of it for Storage volumes back then. When we got out E's ISPF didn't support them! In a message dated 2/10/2014 8:25:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, rpomm...@sfgmembers.com writes: VTOC, VTOCIX, and VVDS all sitting nicely right next to each other. Some at the beginning of the volume, some 1/3 of the way through depending on the type of data that was going to reside on the volume. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
DMS (Disk Management System, IIRC) was from Sterling Software, which was bought out by CA. Now the product is called CA Disk Backup and Restore. The product really does a lot more than backup/restore.. Linda - Original Message - From: Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 3:00:14 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation That makes more sense. We had their DASD Mgt Product DMS(?) and that was about the time they ran me off. In a message dated 2/10/2014 4:47:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, dasdbi...@comcast.net writes: If it was called FastDASD, then it was either Software Corp. of America's -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
DMSOS - Was(RE: Implicit VVDS creation)
Howdy, Yup. Before that it was Sterling Labs(?). I checked the load modules for the old eyecatchers, but they seem to have been sanitized. :-) In our (smallish) environment, I chose it over HSM and still use it with both SMS and non-SMS files. BobL -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation [ External ] DMS (Disk Management System, IIRC) was from Sterling Software, which was bought out by CA. Now the product is called CA Disk Backup and Restore. The product really does a lot more than backup/restore.. Linda This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. OppenheimerFunds may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DMSOS - Was(RE: Implicit VVDS creation)
Yes, it was Sterling Labs before Sterling Software. I first started working with it directly in 1987. It took them several releases to 'sanitize', but as of 11, there are still three Sterling references in the loadlib. We use the archive/auto-restore, backup management both SMS and non-SMS, automated PDS maintenance, VSAM analysis and tuning, 'discovery' of overage empty datasets, overallocation management, etc. Linda - Original Message - From: Bob Lester bles...@ofiglobal.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 4:38:08 PM Subject: DMSOS - Was(RE: Implicit VVDS creation) Howdy, Yup. Before that it was Sterling Labs(?). I checked the load modules for the old eyecatchers, but they seem to have been sanitized. :-) In our (smallish) environment, I chose it over HSM and still use it with both SMS and non-SMS files. BobL -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation [ External ] DMS (Disk Management System, IIRC) was from Sterling Software, which was bought out by CA. Now the product is called CA Disk Backup and Restore. The product really does a lot more than backup/restore.. Linda This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. OppenheimerFunds may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
On 2/7/2014 11:58 AM, retired mainframer wrote: Since the VVDS is a catalog extension supporting both VSAM and SMS, wouldn't the size of the VVDS depend on mix of VSAM and non-VSAM datasets and possibly even the type of VSAM datasets on the volume? There is a formula to calculate the size of a VVDS base on the number of KSDS, ESDS/RRDS, LINEAR, and NONVSAM datasets. http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v2r1/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.zos.v2r1.idac100%2Fvvdsize.htm watch for wrap. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
In 20140208214814.5939345.50125@yahoo.ca, on 02/08/2014 at 04:48 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca said: As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) Yeah, verily! ICF came in with DF/EF, about which the less said the better. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Aside from the how of creating your own VVDS, I'm concerned about the why. OK, if an existing VVDS fills up, that's a why. Otherwise, you might consider creating your own VVDS at the outset if the default size or location is likely not appropriate for the volume. For example, a huge volume like a Mod-54 or any that will likely hold a myriad of small data sets might well need a larger VVDS. OTOH a volume for JES, page, or XCF data sets will likely never need more than a minuscule VVDS. As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) That practice no longer makes sense in the era of RAID, so generally aim for the lowest address possible. Especially for JES and page volumes, location or size of VTOC and VVDS can reduce the usable space for very large single-extent data sets. In these cases, very small VTOC and VVDS (if needed) should be scrunched into the first few tracks. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Cosby, Bob - OCFO bob.co...@nfc.usda.gov To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 02/07/2014 11:04 AM Subject:Re: Implicit VVDS creation Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Just ran into a situation where the VVDS was filling up; 10,10 was not working. Our DBMB group was installing DB2 V10 which has to be SMS managed and were placing hundred of DSNs on one mod-3. So I INIT'ed them as INIT UNIT(560D) VOLID(DBJ555) VTOC(1,0,60) VFY(TS560D) - INDEX(0,1,14) STGR -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 12:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re:group Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) That pra It stopped nattering long before RAID came out. 3380-K was when IBM stopped recommending it. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Skip Robinson Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 14:12 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Aside from the how of creating your own VVDS, I'm concerned about the why. OK, if an existing VVDS fills up, that's a why. Otherwise, you might consider creating your own VVDS at the outset if the default size or location is likely not appropriate for the volume. For example, a huge volume like a Mod-54 or any that will likely hold a myriad of small data sets might well need a larger VVDS. OTOH a volume for JES, page, or XCF data sets will likely never need more than a minuscule VVDS. As for location, in a distant galaxy long ago, SLED DASD liked VTOC and VVDS (did that exist then?) located in the middle of the volume to minimize head movement. (Nod if you agree.) That practice no longer makes sense in the era of RAID, so generally aim for the lowest address possible. Especially for JES and page volumes, location or size of VTOC and VVDS can reduce the usable space for very large single-extent data sets. In these cases, very small VTOC and VVDS (if needed) should be scrunched into the first few tracks. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Cosby, Bob - OCFO bob.co...@nfc.usda.gov To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 02/07/2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Just ran into a situation where the VVDS was filling up; 10,10 was not working. Our DBMB group was installing DB2 V10 which has to be SMS managed and were placing hundred of DSNs on one mod-3. So I INIT'ed them as INIT UNIT(560D) VOLID(DBJ555) VTOC(1,0,60) VFY(TS560D) - INDEX(0,1,14) STGR -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 12:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re:group Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
As I commented recently in another thread, in the ICKDSF manual there is a table of MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX sizes in : Calculating the size of the VTOC index in appendix C of ICKDSF Users Guide GC35-0033-39. Unfortunately, there is no reference to the size of the VVDS required to support a MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX formatted volume. Would be nice to have! HTH, snip The theoretical worst case for a TSO pack is that every track on the volume could be a single-track data set, except for the following: volume label track, VTOC, VTOC index, and VVDS. And each such single-track data set would need at least one DSCB (Format 1) record in the VTOC, and you can only get about 50 of them on each VTOC track. Bill Fairchild /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Since the VVDS is a catalog extension supporting both VSAM and SMS, wouldn't the size of the VVDS depend on mix of VSAM and non-VSAM datasets and possibly even the type of VSAM datasets on the volume? :: -Original Message- :: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :: Behalf Of Staller, Allan :: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 5:53 AM :: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :: Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation :: :: As I commented recently in another thread, in the ICKDSF manual there is :: a table of MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX sizes in : :: Calculating the size of the VTOC index in appendix C of ICKDSF Users :: Guide GC35-0033-39. :: :: Unfortunately, there is no reference to the size of the VVDS required to :: support a MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX formatted volume. :: Would be nice to have! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
At least the VVDS can take extents. One of our volume with 70% used lots of 1 track datasets 46 extents 460 tracks. On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 11:58 AM, retired mainframer retired-mainfra...@q.com wrote: Since the VVDS is a catalog extension supporting both VSAM and SMS, wouldn't the size of the VVDS depend on mix of VSAM and non-VSAM datasets and possibly even the type of VSAM datasets on the volume? :: -Original Message- :: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :: Behalf Of Staller, Allan :: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 5:53 AM :: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :: Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation :: :: As I commented recently in another thread, in the ICKDSF manual there is :: a table of MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX sizes in : :: Calculating the size of the VTOC index in appendix C of ICKDSF Users :: Guide GC35-0033-39. :: :: Unfortunately, there is no reference to the size of the VVDS required to :: support a MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX formatted volume. :: Would be nice to have! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Just ran into a situation where the VVDS was filling up; 10,10 was not working. Our DBMB group was installing DB2 V10 which has to be SMS managed and were placing hundred of DSNs on one mod-3. So I INIT'ed them as INIT UNIT(560D) VOLID(DBJ555) VTOC(1,0,60) VFY(TS560D) - INDEX(0,1,14) STGR -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 12:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re:group Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Wasn't there something about a PASCAL programmer knowing the value of everything and the Wirth of nothing? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
As indicated in the Appendix C of the ICKDSF Guide, these are theoretical maximums. The same could be done for VSM/SMS managed datasets. i.e. If *EVERY* dataset on the volume was a 1-track VSAM DS (or SMS managed DS), what is the size if the VVDS required for the larger of the two possibilities? snip Since the VVDS is a catalog extension supporting both VSAM and SMS, wouldn't the size of the VVDS depend on mix of VSAM and non-VSAM datasets and possibly even the type of VSAM datasets on the volume? :: -Original Message- :: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :: Behalf Of Staller, Allan :: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 5:53 AM :: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :: Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation :: :: As I commented recently in another thread, in the ICKDSF manual there is :: a table of MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX sizes in : :: Calculating the size of the VTOC index in appendix C of ICKDSF Users :: Guide GC35-0033-39. :: :: Unfortunately, there is no reference to the size of the VVDS required to :: support a MAXVTOC/MAXVTOCIX formatted volume. :: Would be nice to have! /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
We do not ever manually build a VVDS data set. There might be a valid argument for building them, but we are cheerfully ignorant of it. Regards, Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Company -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David G. Schlecht Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:22 AM What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David G. Schlecht Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Implicit VVDS creation Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Wasn't there something about a PASCAL programmer knowing the value of everything and the Wirth of nothing? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:22:14 -0800, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov wrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? We had a problem once, a large, multivolume dataset landed an extent on a brand new Mod9 volume. Dataset allocation took the entire volume, and when SMS went to allocate the VVDS, there was no room left for it. Some volumes need the VVDS to be bigger than default too. Dana -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
It's not just VSAM. SMS datasets use the VVDS, as well. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Doug Fuerst d...@bkassociates.net Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:25:43 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
I still do. I like it tidily parked next to the VTOC at the bottom and one chunk of free space. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Wasn't there something about a PASCAL programmer knowing the value of everything and the Wirth of nothing? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
True, but still have to have a slew of them... Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 1:28:26 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation It's not just VSAM. SMS datasets use the VVDS, as well. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Doug Fuerst d...@bkassociates.net Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:25:43 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
How large to you make? Do you define secondaries? We have an agency that occasionally exceeds 675 tracks with no secondary. David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Yes. step1 is ICKDSF. Step2 creates VVDS. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.govwrote: Does anyone still build VVDS datasets explicitly when initializing volumes? I understand that the default allocation for a new VVDS is CYLS(10 10) which saves me from having to rebuild the VVDS if it fills up. What is everyone else doing with VVDS datasets? Is there still a valid argument for building them explicitly? David G. Schlecht | Information Technology Professional State of Nevada | Department of Administration | Enterprise IT Services T:(775)684-4328 | F: (775) 684‐4324 | E:dschle...@admin.nv.gov This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Wasn't there something about a PASCAL programmer knowing the value of everything and the Wirth of nothing? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Doug: Somewhere along the line I though SMS datasets requires an entry for each one. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
It's true, but I get alot of datasets in a small VTOC too. I can't actually recall ever having to allocate a VVDS except for a very special situation. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 1:47:17 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Doug: Somewhere along the line I though SMS datasets requires an entry for each one. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
Doug: Any TSO pack is a mandatory larger VTOC and a larger VVDS. A *LONG* time ago I had a TSO pack that needed a 5 cylinder vtoc. I don't expect that has changed and if SMS managed a larger than typical VVDS as well. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: It's true, but I get alot of datasets in a small VTOC too. I can't actually recall ever having to allocate a VVDS except for a very special situation. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 1:47:17 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Doug: Somewhere along the line I though SMS datasets requires an entry for each one. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Implicit VVDS creation
The theoretical worst case for a TSO pack is that every track on the volume could be a single-track data set, except for the following: volume label track, VTOC, VTOC index, and VVDS. And each such single-track data set would need at least one DSCB (Format 1) record in the VTOC, and you can only get about 50 of them on each VTOC track. Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:44:08 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Doug: Any TSO pack is a mandatory larger VTOC and a larger VVDS. A *LONG* time ago I had a TSO pack that needed a 5 cylinder vtoc. I don't expect that has changed and if SMS managed a larger than typical VVDS as well. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: It's true, but I get alot of datasets in a small VTOC too. I can't actually recall ever having to allocate a VVDS except for a very special situation. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 1:47:17 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Doug: Somewhere along the line I though SMS datasets requires an entry for each one. Ed On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: You have that many VSAM datsets on a volume? 10 tracks holds a fair amount of data for a VVDS. Doug Doug Fuerst BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -- Original Message -- From: David G. Schlecht dschle...@admin.nv.gov To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sent: 2/6/2014 12:55:12 PM Subject: Re: Implicit VVDS creation Hold the presses! The documents for v1r13 say the VVDSSIZE defaults to TRKS(10 10). Holy cow, that's a whole lot less than 10 cylinders. One would think that at 10 tracks, the VVDS would run out of space (and extents) quite frequently but I don't see this being a frequent topic on IBM-MAIN. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
