Re: Top posting
Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: I seem to recall that in a previous thread, that standard was mentioned, but could not find it. The first place I'd look is http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. Ah, yes, many thanks! And there is also a very handy link to IETF too. They are now having a meeting, IETF 84, in Vancouver. Interesting quote from these sites: Finding RFCs for a particular topic is an art. ... :-) Time for me to do some catch-up. Shmuel, many thanks for providing this link. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht I would like to share with you this gem (from the link provided by Chris Mason earlier in this thread): This example is occasionally used in mailing lists to mock and discourage top-posting: A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: More precisely, it specifies that a response follow the text being responded to and that you not quote text you are not responding to. A better term might be interspersed bottom posting. Good formal term. ;-) The standard Internet posting style is to quote each snippet that you are responding to and to follow it with the response, not quoting anything else. If you do that, then the reader can see the context without scrolling through large amounts of extraneous material. Just curious, while I agree 100% with what you wrote, where is that standard written? I seem to recall that in a previous thread, that standard was mentioned, but could not find it. Oh, as usual, many thanks for your educational posts. ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht Well, did I followed your 'standards' properly? ;-D -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
Synthesizing a compromise: On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 10:42:02 -0500, Mark Zelden wrote: Sorry, I use the web interface and I still hate (is that too strong a word) top posting. I naturally read from the top down and scrolling down, reading, then scrolling up, while scrolling down again to read a post, then scrolling up again gets me dizzy. I use NoScript to disable scripts as much as feasible, in a vain attempt to send a message to web authors (who are making it ever less feasible.) So I don't see mouseovers. Except I see (some of) xkcd's mousovers. How? I enabled scripts for ua.edu. Still no mouseovers. Something in Preferences? (LISTSERV's or Firefox's?) Wouldn't it be neat if LISTSERV provided a synopsis option, either as an auxiliary text entry box, or by markup in the message body? But this effect might be achieved by top-posting a synopsis, then reverting to interspersed bottom-posting for the remainder of the ply. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
In 8693414129914945.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu, on 07/30/2012 at 05:48 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za said: Just curious, while I agree 100% with what you wrote, where is that standard written? I seem to recall that in a previous thread, that standard was mentioned, but could not find it. The first place I'd look is http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
Without laying claim to being one of the luminaries of the list, I shall try to comply with this eminently reasonable request. Is someone also addressing the web interface's apparently multiple structural problems? If not, they will certainly worsen. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA On 7/29/12, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: Might I request the luminaries of the list perhaps indulge those of us unfortunate enough to be using the (severely crippled) web interface and *top post* in replies ?. That way we may get the gist of the response from mouse over without having to select every post. Yes, that is how bad things have become. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
While there is an RFC (I'm not going to hunt for the number on a Sunday) that specifies that bottom posting is correct, as a reader I find bottom posting to be hugely counterproductive. When reading a thread in order, bottom posting requires the reader to scroll past what has already been written. The longer the thread gets, the more painful this becomes. I do not use the web interface, so I am not aware of the problems its users are encountering, but bottom posting is enough of an annoyance for me in my email client. I am happy to comply with this request. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 On 2012-07-29 10:03, John Gilmore wrote: Without laying claim to being one of the luminaries of the list, I shall try to comply with this eminently reasonable request. Is someone also addressing the web interface's apparently multiple structural problems? If not, they will certainly worsen. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA On 7/29/12, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: Might I request the luminaries of the list perhaps indulge those of us unfortunate enough to be using the (severely crippled) web interface and *top post* in replies ?. That way we may get the gist of the response from mouse over without having to select every post. Yes, that is how bad things have become. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
Gord According to the Wikipedia article on the topic, [1] the great benefit of bottom posting is to present a chronological story. But in what sort of environment? This makes sense when an e-mail sequence is being developed and - crucially - the e-mail sequence is copied to folk who were not copied originally. This is not a feature of a list environment where all posts may be being received and/or subscribers work from the archives - as I do. - [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style Incidentally, this article mentions two RFCs: 1855 and 3676. I find Google works just as well on a Sunday as any other day - or perhaps the reason is more related to Eric Liddell, of whom lately we have been reminded. - Chris Mason On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:32:19 -0400, Gord Tomlin gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com wrote: While there is an RFC (I'm not going to hunt for the number on a Sunday) that specifies that bottom posting is correct, as a reader I find bottom posting to be hugely counterproductive. When reading a thread in order, bottom posting requires the reader to scroll past what has already been written. The longer the thread gets, the more painful this becomes. I do not use the web interface, so I am not aware of the problems its users are encountering, but bottom posting is enough of an annoyance for me in my email client. I am happy to comply with this request. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 On 2012-07-29 10:03, John Gilmore wrote: Without laying claim to being one of the luminaries of the list, I shall try to comply with this eminently reasonable request. Is someone also addressing the web interface's apparently multiple structural problems? If not, they will certainly worsen. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA On 7/29/12, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: Might I request the luminaries of the list perhaps indulge those of us unfortunate enough to be using the (severely crippled) web interface and *top post* in replies ?. That way we may get the gist of the response from mouse over without having to select every post. Yes, that is how bad things have become. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:32:19 -0400, Gord Tomlin wrote: While there is an RFC (I'm not going to hunt for the number on a Sunday) that specifies that bottom posting is correct, as a reader I find bottom posting to be hugely counterproductive. When reading a thread in order, bottom posting requires the reader to scroll past what has already been written. The longer the thread gets, the more painful this becomes. I do not use the web interface, so I am not aware of the problems its users are encountering, but bottom posting is enough of an annoyance for me in my email client. RFCs of the same vintage also deprecate quoting the entire preceding thread in each ply. This was almost self-enforcing when bandwidth and storage were expensive. I have always followed that practice. Perhaps LISTSERVs and Majordomos are obsolete and should be replaced by blogs or wikis. Painful? What's painful? With a good reader, scrolling to the bottom is a single keystroke. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
In 1343549987.5014f22372...@postoffice.tpg.com.au, on 07/29/2012 at 06:19 PM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au said: Might I request the luminaries of the list perhaps indulge those of us unfortunate enough to be using the (severely crippled) web interface and *top post* in replies ?. Please don't; top posting makes it difficult to associate pieces of the response with pieces of the original message. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Top posting
In 50155783.2090...@actionsoftware.com, on 07/29/2012 at 11:32 AM, Gord Tomlin gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com said: While there is an RFC (I'm not going to hunt for the number on a Sunday) that specifies that bottom posting is correct, More precisely, it specifies that a response follow the text being responded to and that you not quote text you are not responding to. A better term might be interspersed bottom posting. When reading a thread in order, bottom posting requires the reader to scroll past what has already been written. The standard Internet posting style is to quote each snippet that you are responding to and to follow it with the response, not quoting anything else. If you do that, then the reader can see the context without scrolling through large amounts of extraneous material. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
