Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Timothy Sipples]

Shmuel Metz wrote:
>I couldn't get any hits earlier than 1981.

Yes, I stand corrected. The beta search form allows dates as early as 
January 1, 1976, but the earliest announcement letters in the system are 
from 1981. Coverage still looks spotty, but that doesn't surprise me, 
particularly for non-U.S. and non-English letters. There are two EMEA 
announcement letters in the system purportedly published in 1979, but 
they're obviously miscoded and not actually from 1979.

You may occasionally find references in particular announcement letters to 
earlier 1970s announcement letters, but that's obviously not guaranteed.

>Are there any legal issues in citing documents from there
>on wiki?

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt there would be. IBM is publicly publishing 
this information, and I assume you're not republishing it beyond fair use 
under copyright law. Presumably you'd just cite a specific IBM U.S. 
announcement letter, by number and date, and provide a link either to the 
specific announcement letter or IBM's general announcement letter site 
with a "Retrieved on..." date.

>Would it be possible to add options for from-to date ranges and
>for oldest first sort order?

Here's the Feedback link if you'd like to send any requests:

https://ibm.biz/BdqEX4

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

I couldn't get any hits earlier than 1981.

Are there any legal issues in citing documents from there on wiki?

Would it be possible to add options for from-to date ranges and for oldest 
first sort order? Thanks.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Timothy Sipples [sipp...@sg.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 1:51 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

IBM currently provides access to all IBM announcement letters starting
from January 1, 1976, from this Web site:

https://ibm.com/common/ssi

As a random example, at that site you can find IBM U.S. Announcement
#285-045 dated February 12, 1985, and entitled "VM/XA Migration Aid
Release 2 Enhancements." You can search by product name, program number,
or just about any keyword. There's also a link to a beta version of the
site with a new user interface. The new UI seems to be a little easier to
use for these purposes since it's easier to restrict a search to a
particular date range.

I'm not sure why January 1, 1976, is the "magic" date for these purposes,
but perhaps someone else on this list knows.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

Wasn't there a fire at PID in that time frame?

IAC, thanks; a lot of the stuff I would want to cite is after 1976.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Timothy Sipples [sipp...@sg.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 1:51 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

IBM currently provides access to all IBM announcement letters starting
from January 1, 1976, from this Web site:

https://ibm.com/common/ssi

As a random example, at that site you can find IBM U.S. Announcement
#285-045 dated February 12, 1985, and entitled "VM/XA Migration Aid
Release 2 Enhancements." You can search by product name, program number,
or just about any keyword. There's also a link to a beta version of the
site with a new user interface. The new UI seems to be a little easier to
use for these purposes since it's easier to restrict a search to a
particular date range.

I'm not sure why January 1, 1976, is the "magic" date for these purposes,
but perhaps someone else on this list knows.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Timothy Sipples]

IBM currently provides access to all IBM announcement letters starting 
from January 1, 1976, from this Web site:

https://ibm.com/common/ssi

As a random example, at that site you can find IBM U.S. Announcement 
#285-045 dated February 12, 1985, and entitled "VM/XA Migration Aid 
Release 2 Enhancements." You can search by product name, program number, 
or just about any keyword. There's also a link to a beta version of the 
site with a new user interface. The new UI seems to be a little easier to 
use for these purposes since it's easier to restrict a search to a 
particular date range.

I'm not sure why January 1, 1976, is the "magic" date for these purposes, 
but perhaps someone else on this list knows.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

I have some things in BM format, but my priority is sources available online in 
a format that other editors can read. I'd especially like online copies of the 
announcement letters, which I can't find at botsavers.

VM/[B]SE and [B]SEPP are common abbreviations for VM [Basic] Systems Extension 
Progeam Product, which install over VM/370.

VM and the VM Community: Past, Present, and Future, presented by Melinda Varian 
at SHARE 89, Sessions 9059-9061, August 1997,  says "1979 brought us VM/370 
Release 6 and Release 2 of BSEPP and SEPP, with logical device support, the EDF 
file system, 128 and the first of many very disappointing implementations of 
CMS HELP." That matches my recollection; I ran into an incompatabily in the GTE 
3277 clone, which did not update the buffer address after a RA order; the 
updated SEPP login code, quite properly, relied on the updated address, and it 
was only by tracing a second level virtual machine that I was able to diagnose 
(spitting nails) the problem.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Alan Altmark [alan_altm...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:07 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

On Wed, 12 May 2021 08:18:36 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

><http://secure-web.cisco.com/129OMVqU6tz0moqx0drT_bMrsgrYR-nBQAef-XTiMBQUMQx6gGmoTenE8zbT11Zj7VRhi6UaclS24REzddP5hLRJ89eEjg0UOaVu3yMgWJpymWIpuUj_dq_1q6OXOzm7vSMiIj4T1tjLNIfedNCWgVmadWfLSU74g1SM-jpmSGRTNbSDw48wS0fjOIRnfMNtDCTbUYsZuxsDX-VKqjEaPj2003kcTfPHnxU4TzJe_oa_I0jKxvx4q1caz1eW9Eovw_oHjWKcF-xvmT1a7yTmvsEcN1vtHpgGYdVNpyv-sZyuGb66DbArrJj3lX4xl9NQ2aQzH67a4ilGxOQLPifHTwSlPqDpsKflYQVNPRzVLy95lydQvUtPkTdnrzhxrTMNxpc5aZV8kY3y5LHyrDarDzlEwzBb3tC89hsh33boowSHSWwDlmidUQTnN9WEJb1uX/http%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.org%2Fpdf%2Fibm%2F370%2FVM_370%2FRelease_6%2FGC20-1818-3_IBM_Virtual_Machine_Facility_370_CMS_Command_and_Macro_Reference_Rel_6_PLC_17_Apr81.pdf>
> doesn't list an option on the FORMAT command to select a new format file 
> system.

Yes, but the -2 level of the book has the TNLs in it.

>Are the VM/370, VM/SE, VM/BSE, VM/SP, VM/XA (MA, SF and SP) and VM/ESA 
>announcement letters and GI manuals
>available online?

I can find online announcements back to VM/SP Release 2 and back to VM/XA MA.   
Basically, anything prior to 1980 isn't there.  Several years ago there was a 
reprint of the VM/370 announcement, and my copy is on the wall outside my 
office in a building I haven't been in in over a year.

As far as manuals go, I think VM/SP R6 and VM/XA SP 2.1 were the first to have 
electronic copies (BookManager READ).  Those CDs are in my office, too.  :-)
Somewhere in the office are also a couple of still-in-the-shrinkwrap CP-67 or 
VM/370 manuals.  (I *think* they're CP-67.)

I can find references to VM/BSE and VM/SE, but it appears to be shorthand for 
"VM/370 with BSEPP or SEPP".

If memory serves, I began with VM/370 PLC 3 or 4, then 6, then VM/SP R2 in 
college, but I wasn't aware of minor details like CDF vs. EDF.   I just 
formatted my disks using the defaults. After joining IBM, I remember arguments 
in the aisle over what to do about changing the default from CDF (800 bytes 
blocks) to EDF (1K or 4K).  I was just a young whippersnapper at the time and 
didn't involve myself in the deliberations of the Elders.

A lot of memory cells have become non-functional in that amount of time.  :-(

Alan Altmark
IBM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Alan Altmark]

On Wed, 12 May 2021 08:18:36 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>
> doesn't list an option on the FORMAT command to select a new format file 
> system.

Yes, but the -2 level of the book has the TNLs in it.

>Are the VM/370, VM/SE, VM/BSE, VM/SP, VM/XA (MA, SF and SP) and VM/ESA 
>announcement letters and GI manuals
>available online?

I can find online announcements back to VM/SP Release 2 and back to VM/XA MA.   
Basically, anything prior to 1980 isn't there.  Several years ago there was a 
reprint of the VM/370 announcement, and my copy is on the wall outside my 
office in a building I haven't been in in over a year.

As far as manuals go, I think VM/SP R6 and VM/XA SP 2.1 were the first to have 
electronic copies (BookManager READ).  Those CDs are in my office, too.  :-)
Somewhere in the office are also a couple of still-in-the-shrinkwrap CP-67 or 
VM/370 manuals.  (I *think* they're CP-67.)

I can find references to VM/BSE and VM/SE, but it appears to be shorthand for 
"VM/370 with BSEPP or SEPP". 

If memory serves, I began with VM/370 PLC 3 or 4, then 6, then VM/SP R2 in 
college, but I wasn't aware of minor details like CDF vs. EDF.   I just 
formatted my disks using the defaults. After joining IBM, I remember arguments 
in the aisle over what to do about changing the default from CDF (800 bytes 
blocks) to EDF (1K or 4K).  I was just a young whippersnapper at the time and 
didn't involve myself in the deliberations of the Elders.

A lot of memory cells have become non-functional in that amount of time.  :-(

Alan Altmark
IBM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Gary Eheman]

On Mon, 10 May 2021 22:35:50 -0500, Alan Altmark  
wrote:

(snippage)
>
>z/VM 3.1 was the last release to support 370 mode virtual machines, including 
>CMS.  z/VM V4 (all releases) tolerated virtual machines defined with MACHINE 
>370, but would not instantiate them.  (This was done in case of sharing a 
>directory with z/VM V3 or earlier.)   The 9672 G3 was the last machine with 
>370 microcode, and z/VM 3.1 was the last release to support the G3.
>
(end snippage)
>
>Sir Alan
>Lord of the Protocols
>Order of the Knights of VM
>

Since we are talking history here, I need to make a meticulous point.  While I 
cannot recall for sure if an S/370 mode CMS would IPL in a 370 mode virtual 
machine under z/VM 3.1 CP,  I can say for sure that other 370 mode guest 
operating systems (e.g. VM/SP and VSE/SP) would *not* IPL under z/VM 3.1 CP in 
an S/370 mode virtual machine as it was originally released.  You had to apply 
PTF UM30003 for APAR  VM62843 to CP  before an S/370 guest of z/VM 3.1 would 
IPL or you weren't going anywhere and had an immediate failure from the guest 
IPL command.One can speculate on how or why such a significant failure in 
function made it out the door in the last release to support 370 mode guests.   
I took calls from customers at the time  claiming this must be a FLEX-ES 
problem, when it was in fact just a CP software error that they had to fix by 
calling IBM and ordering the fix.

Sir Gary The Meticulous
Order of the Knights of VM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/VM_370/Release_6/GC20-1818-3_IBM_Virtual_Machine_Facility_370_CMS_Command_and_Macro_Reference_Rel_6_PLC_17_Apr81.pdf>
 doesn't list an option on the FORMAT command to select a new format file 
system.

Are the VM/370, VM/SE, VM/BSE, VM/SP, VM/XA (MA, SF and SP) and VM/ESA 
announcement letters and GI manuals available online?

The bitsavers collection is incomplete and it is not always obvious what the 
relevant manuals are. Also, some of the manuals in bitsavers have updates for 
SEPP or BSEPP.

Thanks.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Alan Altmark [alan_altm...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 5:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

On Tue, 11 May 2021 12:49:47 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>Thanks; I asked because I was editing 
>https://secure-web.cisco.com/1qF3LLRjAEjPJv5KtUV-K9CbO4DnYgfRDo3ZSn1_xMxR7CtneI9X3pixEXbrKcDZXzfqpnNoc0FBg3JqkhcKHjjbf71_VSHQD8uVF5nhT5s0z1he266mbm8-gs0sjGTNLlIOwftwnw_hTxQFIcq-Q2A42YRn1D3I_5DVuBtOuesPYzEP7j9rZjdkzwQI5_fJHluqQh1R8srPdb7LxBx3Q5vDyJd2JiLunB2Nnz5W48ZqHtzHHkPII6j_mK3JuSCbqISFs0BpcrnDg6FlhbB-odGoWTCEM1m-xf-ZyxtoUGjs5zBvo0Y4WCpjuFPeJOCSnIvDAGt7Ax9V-Ja7Kql3dlPAMI_baDl4USLIWrr9_4HMh877LoYO5mAEqW6ofuCnXc1DBqfyRbK2G1u1dqX7IgvMXsn0sNrKQkDZhEqvxO3u2u1rpaRA7nhoToxpTrfNr/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCMS_file_system
> and there was a footnote
> referring to cuu addresses. I've added some text that I hope puts things in 
> context.

There are other issues with that article.  In CP-67 and in the earlier releases 
of VM/370, there was indeed a limit of 6 file modes.  In VM/370 those limits 
were relieved; you can see TNLs that did it in the VM/370 manuals on Bitsavers.

The FST format shown is from the CDF file system.   EDF was part of SEPP or 
BSEPP ([Basic] System Extensions Program Product, I think), which was 
eventually integrated into VM/370, also visible in the VM/370 manual evolution. 
  With EDF, those halfword fields weren't large enough, so the FST was expanded.

>Are there online documents listing the change dates? If so, I probably should 
>add citations.

The announcement letters for each release along with the associated General 
Information manual let you piece together what was possible in each release.

And sorry if I wasn't clear about 370 mode.  z/VM 3.1 could *run* CMS/370, but 
we stopped shipping it in Version 2.

Announcement 294-159 for VM/ESA [Version 1] Release 2.2  (6 April 1994) said:

"The CMS in VM/ESA Release 2.2 is the last release of CMS to run in a 370-mode 
virtual machine. Users still needing 370-mode CMS support are encouraged to run 
their 370 applications using the 370 Accommodation facility which became 
available in VM/ESA Release 2.1. 370-mode virtual machines will continue to be 
provided for use by guest operating systems and by applications which do not 
run on CMS. Many 370 applications can run unaltered in XA/XC mode. By testing 
the applications with 370 accommodation, customer can be assured their 
applications will run in XA/XC virtual machines under future releases of CMS."

Announcement 294-524 (13 Sept 1994) for VM/ESA Version 2 Release 1 (GA Oct 
1995)  had this to say:

"The CMS in VM/ESA Version 1 Release 2.2 (CMS 11) is the last release of CMS to 
run in a 370 mode virtual machine. The CMS in VM/ESA Version 2 (CMS 12) will 
not IPL in a 370 mode virtual machine. The removal of the 370-mode CMS helps to 
provide relief for storage constraints below the 16MB line. One megabyte of the 
CMS nucleus that was previously below the 16MB line will be moved above the 
line.

370 mode virtual machines will continue to be provided by CP for use by guest 
operating systems, applications that do not run on CMS, and previous releases 
of CMS. Users needing support for 370-mode applications are encouraged to run 
those applications using the 370 accommodation feature which became available 
in VM/ESA Version 1 Release 2.1. Verifying the execution of applications with 
the 370 accommodation feature allow customers to position those applications to 
run in XA or XC mode virtual machines under VM/ESA Version 2 and future 
releases of CMS."

Alan Altmark
IBM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Alan Altmark]

On Tue, 11 May 2021 12:49:47 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>Thanks; I asked because I was editing 
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMS_file_system and there was a footnote
> referring to cuu addresses. I've added some text that I hope puts things in 
> context.

There are other issues with that article.  In CP-67 and in the earlier releases 
of VM/370, there was indeed a limit of 6 file modes.  In VM/370 those limits 
were relieved; you can see TNLs that did it in the VM/370 manuals on Bitsavers.

The FST format shown is from the CDF file system.   EDF was part of SEPP or 
BSEPP ([Basic] System Extensions Program Product, I think), which was 
eventually integrated into VM/370, also visible in the VM/370 manual evolution. 
  With EDF, those halfword fields weren't large enough, so the FST was expanded.

>Are there online documents listing the change dates? If so, I probably should 
>add citations.

The announcement letters for each release along with the associated General 
Information manual let you piece together what was possible in each release.   

And sorry if I wasn't clear about 370 mode.  z/VM 3.1 could *run* CMS/370, but 
we stopped shipping it in Version 2.

Announcement 294-159 for VM/ESA [Version 1] Release 2.2  (6 April 1994) said:

"The CMS in VM/ESA Release 2.2 is the last release of CMS to run in a 370-mode 
virtual machine. Users still needing 370-mode CMS support are encouraged to run 
their 370 applications using the 370 Accommodation facility which became 
available in VM/ESA Release 2.1. 370-mode virtual machines will continue to be 
provided for use by guest operating systems and by applications which do not 
run on CMS. Many 370 applications can run unaltered in XA/XC mode. By testing 
the applications with 370 accommodation, customer can be assured their 
applications will run in XA/XC virtual machines under future releases of CMS."

Announcement 294-524 (13 Sept 1994) for VM/ESA Version 2 Release 1 (GA Oct 
1995)  had this to say:

"The CMS in VM/ESA Version 1 Release 2.2 (CMS 11) is the last release of CMS to 
run in a 370 mode virtual machine. The CMS in VM/ESA Version 2 (CMS 12) will 
not IPL in a 370 mode virtual machine. The removal of the 370-mode CMS helps to 
provide relief for storage constraints below the 16MB line. One megabyte of the 
CMS nucleus that was previously below the 16MB line will be moved above the 
line.

370 mode virtual machines will continue to be provided by CP for use by guest 
operating systems, applications that do not run on CMS, and previous releases 
of CMS. Users needing support for 370-mode applications are encouraged to run 
those applications using the 370 accommodation feature which became available 
in VM/ESA Version 1 Release 2.1. Verifying the execution of applications with 
the 370 accommodation feature allow customers to position those applications to 
run in XA or XC mode virtual machines under VM/ESA Version 2 and future 
releases of CMS."

Alan Altmark
IBM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

Thanks; I asked because I was editing 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMS_file_system and there was a footnote 
referring to cuu addresses. I've added some text that I hope puts things in 
context.

Are there online documents listing the change dates? If so, I probably should 
add citations.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Alan Altmark [alan_altm...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 11:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:56:42 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under CP-67. 
>The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran
> on a virtual S/370. When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode and when did it 
> stop supporting S/370 mode (if it did)?

I worked on that project as I was in CMS Development at the time, the owner of 
a lot of I/O-related code.

VM/XA SP2.1 shipped CMS 5.5, the "converged" CMS that made CMS bimodal 
(dual-pathed for 370 and 370-XA) and replaced all of the I/O instructions 
DIAGNOSE calls to CP.  Prior to that, CMS Release 5 (VM/SP 5) required 370 
mode, though you never noticed because VM/SP (and the VM/ESA 370 feature) 
didn't have any other kind of virtual machine.

Both the ESA and 370 features of VM/ESA 1.0 and 1.1 had the same CMS (level 7 
and 8, respectively).

z/VM 3.1 was the last release to support 370 mode virtual machines, including 
CMS.  z/VM V4 (all releases) tolerated virtual machines defined with MACHINE 
370, but would not instantiate them.  (This was done in case of sharing a 
directory with z/VM V3 or earlier.)   The 9672 G3 was the last machine with 370 
microcode, and z/VM 3.1 was the last release to support the G3.

CMS today would probably run in a 370 mode virtual machine.   There are still 
BC/EC-mode dual paths, too, but let's not get carried away.  :-)

Sir Alan
Lord of the Protocols
Order of the Knights of VM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Alan Altmark]

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:56:42 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under CP-67. 
>The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran
> on a virtual S/370. When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode and when did it 
> stop supporting S/370 mode (if it did)?

I worked on that project as I was in CMS Development at the time, the owner of 
a lot of I/O-related code.

VM/XA SP2.1 shipped CMS 5.5, the "converged" CMS that made CMS bimodal 
(dual-pathed for 370 and 370-XA) and replaced all of the I/O instructions 
DIAGNOSE calls to CP.  Prior to that, CMS Release 5 (VM/SP 5) required 370 
mode, though you never noticed because VM/SP (and the VM/ESA 370 feature) 
didn't have any other kind of virtual machine.

Both the ESA and 370 features of VM/ESA 1.0 and 1.1 had the same CMS (level 7 
and 8, respectively).  

z/VM 3.1 was the last release to support 370 mode virtual machines, including 
CMS.  z/VM V4 (all releases) tolerated virtual machines defined with MACHINE 
370, but would not instantiate them.  (This was done in case of sharing a 
directory with z/VM V3 or earlier.)   The 9672 G3 was the last machine with 370 
microcode, and z/VM 3.1 was the last release to support the G3.

CMS today would probably run in a 370 mode virtual machine.   There are still 
BC/EC-mode dual paths, too, but let's not get carried away.  :-)

Sir Alan
Lord of the Protocols
Order of the Knights of VM

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Dale R. Smith]

On Tue, 11 May 2021 01:47:45 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>Thanks. Do you also know when CMS first supported XC mode as an option?
>
>
>--
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

CMS Release 8, VM/ESA 1.1.1.

-- 
Dale R. Smith

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

Thanks. Do you also know when CMS first supported XC mode as an option?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Dale R. Smith [dale-sm...@columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 9:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:56:42 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under CP-67. 
>The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran on a virtual S/370. When did CMS stop 
>requiring S/370 mode and when did it stop supporting S/370 mode (if it did)?
>
>
>
>--
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

CMS Release 12, (VM/ESA 2.1.0), and later releases of CMS no longer supported 
running CMS in 370 Mode.
z/VM 4.1.0 and later releases no longer supported 370 mode Virtual Machines, 
(and therefore could no longer run 370 mode only OSes).

--
Dale R. Smith

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Dale R. Smith]

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:56:42 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under CP-67. 
>The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran on a virtual S/370. When did CMS stop 
>requiring S/370 mode and when did it stop supporting S/370 mode (if it did)?
>
>
>
>--
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

CMS Release 12, (VM/ESA 2.1.0), and later releases of CMS no longer supported 
running CMS in 370 Mode.
z/VM 4.1.0 and later releases no longer supported 370 mode Virtual Machines, 
(and therefore could no longer run 370 mode only OSes).

-- 
Dale R. Smith

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Steve Thompson]

I think if you ask on the VM List that Alan or Bill (Bitner) will know. My hazy 
memory — I remember the announcement, but I can’t remember for sure if it was 
before or after 1996. 

Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct 
mistaks 


> On May 10, 2021, at 9:35 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> 
> Well,VM/XA MA, VM/XA SF, VM/XA/SP and VM/ESA all used subchannel numbers and 
> couldn't run in S/370 mode, but supported S/370 mode virtual machines. 
> Somewhere around VM/ESA IBM defined a subset of ESA for optional use by CMS 
> (or was it GCS?), and I believe that S/370 mode is now gone. What I'm looking 
> for is the timeline.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> Steve Thompson [ste...@copper.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 9:14 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?
> 
> I’m going to hazard a guess that it went away when base 370 I/O was dropped.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct 
> mistaks
> 
> 
>> On May 10, 2021, at 8:56 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>> 
>> CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under 
>> CP-67.. The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran on a virtual S/370. When did 
>> CMS stop requiring S/370 mode and when did it stop supporting S/370 mode (if 
>> it did)?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>> 
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

Yes, but when did CMS and GCS stop requiring it?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

On Mon, 10 May 2021 13:35:35 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Well,VM/XA MA, VM/XA SF, VM/XA/SP and VM/ESA all used subchannel numbers and 
>couldn't run in S/370 mode, but supported S/370 mode virtual machines. 
>Somewhere around VM/ESA IBM defined a subset of ESA for optional use by CMS 
>(or was it GCS?), and I believe that S/370 mode is now gone. What I'm looking 
>for is the timeline.
>
IIRC at some point there was a chimeric mode (SET ACCOM370?) that
emulated old-fashioned I/O instructions in a generally newer VM.

-- gil

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 10 May 2021 13:35:35 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Well,VM/XA MA, VM/XA SF, VM/XA/SP and VM/ESA all used subchannel numbers and 
>couldn't run in S/370 mode, but supported S/370 mode virtual machines. 
>Somewhere around VM/ESA IBM defined a subset of ESA for optional use by CMS 
>(or was it GCS?), and I believe that S/370 mode is now gone. What I'm looking 
>for is the timeline.
> 
IIRC at some point there was a chimeric mode (SET ACCOM370?) that
emulated old-fashioned I/O instructions in a generally newer VM.

-- gil

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Seymour J Metz]

Well,VM/XA MA, VM/XA SF, VM/XA/SP and VM/ESA all used subchannel numbers and 
couldn't run in S/370 mode, but supported S/370 mode virtual machines. 
Somewhere around VM/ESA IBM defined a subset of ESA for optional use by CMS (or 
was it GCS?), and I believe that S/370 mode is now gone. What I'm looking for 
is the timeline.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Steve Thompson [ste...@copper.net]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 9:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

I’m going to hazard a guess that it went away when base 370 I/O was dropped.

Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct 
mistaks


> On May 10, 2021, at 8:56 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under 
> CP-67.. The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran on a virtual S/370. When did CMS 
> stop requiring S/370 mode and when did it stop supporting S/370 mode (if it 
> did)?
>
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: When did CMS stop requiring S/370 mode?

[Steve Thompson]

I’m going to hazard a guess that it went away when base 370 I/O was dropped. 

Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct 
mistaks 


> On May 10, 2021, at 8:56 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> 
> CMS originally ran on a real S/360 or on a S/60 virtual machine under 
> CP-67.. The CMS for VM/370 through VM/SP ran on a virtual S/370. When did CMS 
> stop requiring S/370 mode and when did it stop supporting S/370 mode (if it 
> did)?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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