Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On 8/4/2015 12:34 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I like the proposal. Let's re-imagine IDLE with solely beginners in mind. I want to retry responding to Chris and Guido. I am delighted that others are re-thinking, re-conceptualizing, re-imagining Idle. I am delighted that Guido approves. This

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On 8/5/2015 3:16 PM, Al Sweigart wrote: We should definitely be open to make large design changes to benefit new programmers. I have been dreaming of and working toward this for 5 years. Learning source control and tkinter was a step. PEP 434 was a step. Adding a unittest framework and some tes

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

> On Aug 6, 2015, at 8:55 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> I meant "pastebin" as in the generic sense, > > I did not know it had become generic;-). FYI, just off the top of my head: http://hastebin.com https://gist.github.com http://codepad.org

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On 8/5/2015 3:11 PM, Al Sweigart wrote: To be clear, I don't want to fork IDLE. Even if you ever do, it would be better to wait until we do the 90+% we agree on ;-) I meant "pastebin" as in the generic sense, I did not know it had become generic;-). But the idea here is to make it easy

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

Hi Al The kind of thing I am looking for is a combination of what is great in IDLE plus adapted good ideas from such educational sites as Greenfoot, Scratch, etc. I do not get so much of the mix up with shell and script from my readers. Possibly because we start only working in the Shell which

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

I also don't really see a conflict here. Nobody is advocating for the removal of the interactive shell. In the single-window design I have on the IR wiki, the shell is on the bottom just so that it is always visible (though the pane can be resized to take up more of the window when needed.) One ver

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

Oh dear, I have been away for a day celebrating my Mum’s 60th anniversary and so not been able to contribute further. I have followed the discussions with interest and been very excited by them. The enthusiasm and hard work that has gone into making such a useful tool was refreshing and all ope

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

I am not interested in this discussion. You all can do what you want. On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 8/5/2015 5:55 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Terry Reedy > > wrote: >> >> As a user of Idle for several ye

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On 8/5/2015 5:55 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Terry Reedy mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: As a user of Idle for several years, and not a beginner, I disagree with 'only'. That aside, I consider it unnecessary and diversionary from the numerous known i

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

And to echo Mark and Guido, IDLE's prime benefit is that it is bundled with Python. We should definitely be open to make large design changes to benefit new programmers. Adding another checkbox to the configuration window makes IDLE more versatile, but it also brings it closer to a VCR with 50 butt

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

To be clear, I don't want to fork IDLE. The prime benefit of IDLE is that it is bundle in Python installers and requires zero configuration. Forking it would indeed be a waste of energy (there are already plenty of good IDEs out there, and IDLE shouldn't even try to compete with them). I'll start

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

> As a user of Idle for several years, and not a beginner, I disagree with > 'only'. That aside, I consider it unnecessary and diversionary from the > numerous known issues that will benefit *everyone*. > Most of the "features that will distinguish IR", so he claims, are issues on > the tracker

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > Guido, the use of IDLE isn't limited to precollege. > Sure, but don't you think the key audiences for IDLE all have something in common? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ IDLE-dev ma

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

In my previous note I tried to document the rather extensive past and current use of IDLE in higher education. For the near future, those of us involved in the development and use of VPython see as the best way forward two environments, the GlowScript environment (which requires no software install

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

Guido, the use of IDLE isn't limited to precollege. The Matter & Interactions curriculum and textbook developed by Ruth Chabay and me ( matterandinteractions.org) is for first-year university science and engineering students. Unlike most intro physics courses and textbooks, which take a 19th centur

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > As a user of Idle for several years, and not a beginner, I disagree with > 'only'. That aside, I consider it unnecessary and diversionary from the > numerous known issues that will benefit *everyone*. > I was worried that you'd respond like t

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

On 8/4/2015 6:53 AM, Chris Roffey wrote: Hi everyone. This is my first post to the list but I have been reading through the archives before joining. Welcome. Python is now the most popular programming language in UK schools in 11-18 age group with something like 80% of GCSE Computer Science s

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

Hi, this is Al. I haven't had much time to work on IDLE Reimagined in recent months, but I'd like to get back on it in a couple weeks. Mostly I've been following a rabbit hole of: * I need to make this project approachable for new contributors... * So I want to document the code... * But first I s

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

I agree, IDLE as solely a learning tool makes a lot of sense if it’s going to continue to exist as part of Python. There’s a lot in there now that is beyond the scope of what learners need. While I’m happy to help with the UI improvements to what’s there now, I have to admit part of my motiva

Re: [Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

I like the proposal. Let's re-imagine IDLE with solely beginners in mind. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ IDLE-dev mailing list IDLE-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev

[Idle-dev] IDLE in UK Schools

Hi everyone. This is my first post to the list but I have been reading through the archives before joining. Python is now the most popular programming language in UK schools in 11-18 age group with something like 80% of GCSE Computer Science students now submitting code for these exams (at age