Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

> On Mar 2, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Tom M wrote: > > Regarding her comments on games. > > Python is a non starter for mobile games (not available on most of the > platforms in any reasonable manner) > There's a pygame for android project which works in a basic sort of way. I think one or two games are

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Mar 2, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Tom M wrote: > Regarding her comments on games. > > Python is a non starter for platform (Nintendo, PS3, Xbox) games - I > discussed this with Erwin Coumans (created and develops the Bullet > physics engine and also consults for most major physics engines) many > yea

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Regarding her comments on games. Python is a non starter for platform (Nintendo, PS3, Xbox) games - I discussed this with Erwin Coumans (created and develops the Bullet physics engine and also consults for most major physics engines) many years ago and he gave a number of reasons why major game de

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

I have some source that includes pyopengl Just give me some time to settle down, I'd be glad to share Vatroslav Suton [email protected] -Original Message- From: Bruce Sherwood To: Todd V. Rovito Cc: idle-dev Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:01 pm Subject: Re: [Idle-dev] The F

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Thanks for pointing out iPython, which indeed has many good features. GlowScript and VPython have a different goal, which is to make it quite easy for nonexpert programmers, including novices, to write programs that generate real-time navigable 3D animations as a side effect of computations. One ve

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Ah ... OK. Will try Chromium. On 17 February 2014 12:32, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > Thanks to a report, I find that the Brython/GlowScript machinery doesn't > work in Firefox or IE; it does work in Chrome. Dunno why. It's early days. > > Bruce > > ___ >

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Thanks to a report, I find that the Brython/GlowScript machinery doesn't work in Firefox or IE; it does work in Chrome. Dunno why. It's early days. Bruce ___ IDLE-dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Here's a welcome surprise. Thanks to quick work by Brythonist Billy Earney, with tweaks by me, the zip file below contains a demonstration of a Python program driving WebGL in a browser, using the Brython and GlowScript libraries. Unpack the zip file, execute server.py, open a browser, and go to "l

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

That was Roger Serwy’s work. There are a bunch of those waiting to go up. Here’s one that’s been sitting around since 2008: http://bugs.python.org/issue2704 I’d love to see it committed. Is anyone interested in having an IDLE sprint at PyCon? On Feb 8, 2014, at 2:10 AM, Sean Felipe Wolfe wro

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/11/14, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 2/11/2014 1:57 PM, Simon Forman wrote: > >> I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I have a friend with a mac who is >> interested in learning Python. I'll let you know if I can rope him >> in. ;-) >> >> I'm most interested in doing whatever would be most helpful (and

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

At the moment I know very little about Brython, but I do note that in the documentation at http://www.brython.info/doc/en/index.html# in the section "Syntax, keywords, and built-in functions" there is the statement "Brython supports most keywords and functions of Python 3", though I don't know wh

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/11/2014 12:00 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: Good question, Terry. I just installed Python 2.7.6 (Nov. 10, 2013), and there are two issues with its IDLE. I don't know whether you're referring to this IDLE or to an experimental version (and I've mislaid the instructions for how to get the experime

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/11/2014 1:57 PM, Simon Forman wrote: I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I have a friend with a mac who is interested in learning Python. I'll let you know if I can rope him in. ;-) I'm most interested in doing whatever would be most helpful (and within my abilities.) For issues with existing

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/11/14, Glyph wrote: > > On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> On 2/10/2014 6:07 PM, Glyph wrote: >> >>> And let me make a halfhearted attempt to bring this on-topic: it would >>> be absolutely /amazing/ if IDLE actually had a plugin to allow you to >>> write some HTML and some

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Good question, Terry. I just installed Python 2.7.6 (Nov. 10, 2013), and there are two issues with its IDLE. I don't know whether you're referring to this IDLE or to an experimental version (and I've mislaid the instructions for how to get the experimental version). The two issues in Python 2.7.6

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/11/14, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 2/10/2014 8:17 PM, Simon Forman wrote: >> On 2/10/14, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> [snip] >>> >>> It would be absolutely amazing what Terry Reedy et al were to achieve if >>> they were to be given a helping hand fixing the 122 outstanding IDLE >>> bugs prior to addi

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 2/10/2014 6:07 PM, Glyph wrote: > >> And let me make a halfhearted attempt to bring this on-topic: it would >> be absolutely /amazing/ if IDLE actually had a plugin to allow you to >> write some HTML and some CSS and stuff so that new users c

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/10/2014 10:12 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: Yes, we're currently using VIDLE, but the differences between VIDLE and IDLE are not significant in the context of the criticisms of IDLE, and moreover, thanks to Terry's and other work, I'm hopeful that it will soon be possible to abandon VIDLE. Wha

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/10/2014 8:17 PM, Simon Forman wrote: On 2/10/14, Mark Lawrence wrote: [snip] It would be absolutely amazing what Terry Reedy et al were to achieve if they were to be given a helping hand fixing the 122 outstanding IDLE bugs prior to adding anything to it. That is the actually number if

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/10/2014 6:07 PM, Glyph wrote: And let me make a halfhearted attempt to bring this on-topic: it would be absolutely /amazing/ if IDLE actually had a plugin to allow you to write some HTML and some CSS and stuff so that new users could easily get up and running with something that looks "real

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 05/02/2014 20:36, phil jones wrote: Interesting video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1a4Jbjc-vU Thank you so much for the link, I thought it was awesome, so much so that I've emailed Jessica expressing my gratitude for a fine piece of work. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/10/2014 11:34 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: You've convinced me that brython is interesting. I still think it would require a miracle for it to become mainstream, but it has a better change than pythonb.org . :-) The Brython author posted to python-list for 'feedback' abo

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

You've convinced me that brython is interesting. I still think it would require a miracle for it to become mainstream, but it has a better change than pythonb.org. :-) On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Glyph wrote: > > On Feb 10, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Then we're doomed,

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Yes, we're currently using VIDLE, but the differences between VIDLE and IDLE are not significant in the context of the criticisms of IDLE, and moreover, thanks to Terry's and other work, I'm hopeful that it will soon be possible to abandon VIDLE. Upon reflection, I think I may see why Jessica feel

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

But if I understand correctly, you're using VIDLE not IDLE? Or did I get that wrong? On 10 February 2014 23:39, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > If I misunderstood, it is because IDLE works very well for my thousands of > Python newbies. > > Bruce > > On Feb 10, 2014 6:10 PM, "phil jones" wrote: >> >> Br

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

If I misunderstood, it is because IDLE works very well for my thousands of Python newbies. Bruce On Feb 10, 2014 6:10 PM, "phil jones" wrote: > Bruce : [quote] > I have the strong impression, including from Jessica's talk, that IDLE is > very objectionable to experienced programmers, and I would

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/10/14, Mark Lawrence wrote: [snip] > > It would be absolutely amazing what Terry Reedy et al were to achieve if > they were to be given a helping hand fixing the 122 outstanding IDLE > bugs prior to adding anything to it. > Right, well, I've just gotten a hg checkout and I should have time

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Bruce : [quote] I have the strong impression, including from Jessica's talk, that IDLE is very objectionable to experienced programmers, and I would say simply that they shouldn't use it. [/quote] To be honest, I interpreted Jessica as saying the opposite. That IDLE was not good enough for the *be

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Why is PyPy's js back-end defunct? That would seem to be most obvious way to get this, no? Is there a particular bit of Python semantics that's hard to compile to js? Phil On 10 February 2014 21:35, Glyph wrote: > > On Feb 10, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Then we're doomed, be

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 10/02/2014 23:07, Glyph wrote: And let me make a halfhearted attempt to bring this on-topic: it would be absolutely /amazing/ if IDLE actually had a plugin to allow you to write some HTML and some CSS and stuff so that new users could easily get up and running with something that looks "real"

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Feb 10, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > Then we're doomed, because this is entirely political (the companies making > browsers must want to do it). Not at all. There are a number of promising proofs of concept, demonstrating different aspects of this problem: Pyjamas, the PyJS

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Glyph wrote: > > On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Bruce Sherwood > wrote: > >> I was surprised that in talking about the future of Python Jessica didn't >> touch on what may be really crucial, which is the

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Bruce Sherwood > wrote: > I was surprised that in talking about the future of Python Jessica didn't > touch on what may be really crucial, which is the importance of being able to > use Python in client-si

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On 2/10/2014 5:05 AM, Paul Barry wrote: I used IDLE extensively in the first edition of "Head First Python". For the second edition (which is now very, very late - but that's another story), I took the time to take a look at a bunch of other Python IDEs and, after working with a lot of them, have

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

roslav Suton > [email protected] > -Original Message- > From: Bruce Sherwood > To: Sean Felipe Wolfe > Cc: sforman ; idle ; Guido van > Rossum > Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 9:36 am > Subject: Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python > > I'll mention that for

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

porting python to javascript, np Vatroslav Suton [email protected] -Original Message- From: Bruce Sherwood To: Sean Felipe Wolfe Cc: sforman ; idle ; Guido van Rossum Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 9:36 am Subject: Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python I'll mention that for m

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

I'll mention that for my own purposes, and those of my students, the interpreter prompt is of absolutely no interest whatsoever. All of our work is done at the program level, in the editor, not at the interpreter prompt. For us the Python Shell is used only for print() output. So I don't care what

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Sean Felipe Wolfe wrote: > IIRC there are a lot of good bits in the fork. Er, I meant to say, 'the fork of IDLE called IDLEX' . Did we get any of those in? That would be http://idlex.sourceforge.net/ ___ IDLE-dev mailin

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > My only concern about IDLE is that there seems to be no clear path for > getting improvements into the distributed version of IDLE, Yeah this was a bit discouraging to me in the past -- that it didn't seem like good fixes were getting onto

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

I too use only IDLE (in its VIDLE forked version) when writing Python programs, as is the case also of the many thousands of students in our intro physics curriculum, whether on Windows (about 80% of the users) or Mac (about 15%, the remaining 5% being Linux). I have the strong impression, includi

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

I suspect that how you view IDLE and Tk may have a lot to do with the platform you're using, i.e. Mac or Win. ___ IDLE-dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

My $0.02 regarding IDLE (and Tk): I am a professional programmer who has been programming primarily in Python (Thank you GVR et. al.!) for nearly a decade. IDLE has been and remains the only editor I want to use. It has its warts and idiosyncrasies, there are things I would love to see (IPython i

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

I tried to improve IDLE for a little while and I believe the main problem is tk. It's a source of a lot of bugs and some weird behavior. On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:40 PM, phil jones wrote: > Just putting a couple of thoughts / questions out to the community here : > > The impression I get about I

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Just putting a couple of thoughts / questions out to the community here : The impression I get about IDLE is that it's a bit of an embarrassment. (Possibly because of tk). Everyone accepts it's substandard. But no-one seems to want it to grow into something else (eg. a full IDE, something more lik

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

IDLE! We are starting up a partnership with a community center here in Oakland, CA, starting kids up with programmming. We're starting with Logo (yay, Logo!) and transitioning to Python with the turtle module. We've been using IDLE on Linux and also a Raspberry Pi. So far, so good! I for one

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > I was surprised that in talking about the future of Python Jessica didn't > touch on what may be really crucial, which is the importance of being able > to use Python in client-side browser programming. Running in a browser is > of rapidly i

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

I was surprised that in talking about the future of Python Jessica didn't touch on what may be really crucial, which is the importance of being able to use Python in client-side browser programming. Running in a browser is of rapidly increasing importance and Python could easily get left behind. Th

Re: [Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Not just interesting. Super inspiring. I almost cried, and was going to propose to give my keynote slot at PyCon away to Jessica, but she's already got her own slot. :-) Awesome! On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:36 PM, phil jones wrote: > Interesting video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1a4Jbjc-vU

[Idle-dev] The Future of Python

Interesting video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1a4Jbjc-vU ___ IDLE-dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev