Hi,
On Wed 2001.02.21, Bora Akyol wrote:
I am trying (trying is the key word) to write Internet drafts on a
powerbook using MS Word with the template from the IETF web-site,
then using a PC to convert Word to text per the instructions.
Is there a better way to write IDs on a Mac?
I
can any 1 mail mail me the m3ua conformance
test cases or pass me the link to it...
thankz in advance...
cya
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
using Lynx on a terminal)?
and that goes for pdf too, given that the irs uses it too :)
It isn't accepted because flat, plain ASCII text is by far
Just write them in plain text, nroff or not, using a decent mode-aware
text editor like Alpha (http://alpha.olm.net). It's also a pretty good
raw HTML editor.
On 21 Feb 2001 at 22:50 -0800, Bora Akyol apparently wrote:
I am trying (trying is the key word) to write Internet drafts on a
ASCII text shouldn't be accepted because:
Pen and paper is by far the most portable format on the planet and
beyond. For example, there are more people on this planet that have
access to a pen and paper than a computer. Heck, my grandmother
refuses to buy a computer even though she can afford
[Bora Akyol: Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 10:50:36PM -0800]
I am trying (trying is the key word) to write Internet drafts on a
powerbook using MS Word with the template from the IETF web-site,
then using a PC to convert Word to text per the instructions.
Is there a better way to write IDs on a
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts
just a sec. traditionally, we have this discussion every six months. it
has not been six months yet.
randy
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
using Lynx on a terminal)?
and that goes for pdf too, given that the irs uses it too :)
I'd like to see us accept HTML as an alternate format for
John Kristoff wrote:
I'm curious what happened to Starburst http://www.starburstcom.com.
Their mftp was pretty cool, but it looks like they are no longer around.
Bought by Adero Inc.:
http://www.adero.com/news_events/pressRelease76.html
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Taylor Salman typed:
ASCII text shouldn't be accepted because:br
Pen and paper is by far the most portable format on the planet and
beyond.
i disagree -
i) the americans spent a lot of money on spaceworthy pens,
but the russians showed that PENCILS are fine
V Guruprasad wrote:
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
using Lynx on a terminal)?
and that goes for pdf too, given that the irs uses it too :)
Drafts become RFCs, and RFCs live
%
% Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
% much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
% using Lynx on a terminal)?
%
% and that goes for pdf too, given that the irs uses it too :)
%
% I'd like to see us accept HTML as an
just a sec. traditionally, we have this discussion every six months. it
has not been six months yet.
If this trend keeps up, eventually all IETF discussions
will be centered on this one subject, which, ironically
enough, has nothing to do with actual engineering.
Who says the universe has
and that goes for pdf too, given that the irs uses it too :)
I'd like to see us accept HTML
Ugh. Do we have to do this whole thread **again**???
allman
---
Mark Allman -- BBN/NASA GRC -- http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~mallman/
At 05:04 AM 2/22/2001, David C Lawrence wrote:
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
using Lynx on a terminal)?
and that goes for pdf too, given that the irs uses it too :)
It isn't
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harald Alvestrand typ
ed:
no no no - like ascii, pencil and surface is re-usable, both for
revised drafts, and for keeping warm if the minneapolis weather should
change too quickly
stone is ok, but only for full standards and bcp
At 15:23 22/02/2001 +, Jon
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:16:55 EST, Taylor Salman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Let's not even talk about EBCDIC. I mean does anyone even use that
anymore?
Probably, given the number of S/390 class systems IBM still sells. Though
the Linux 2.4 kernel has S/390 support ;)
--
The PWOT mailing list has been created for discussion
of Pseudo Wires Over Transport. PWOT is a descendant
of CEOT (Circulation Emulation Over Transport), and is
a to-be working group.
The IESG is working with the chairs to finalize the
charter now and a BOF slot has been secured for the
From: Bill Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
re HTML/PDF: cutpaste?
text search?
ease of conversion to other formats?
Many, but certainly not all of the strong advocates for other formats
don't know, understand, or care about doing any of
I would suggest stone tablets. This encourages conciseness and simpler
protocols. Plus, it has more effect when you hit an implementor that
doesn't adhere to the spec with the tablet.
Jon Crowcroft wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Taylor Salman typed:
ASCII text shouldn't be accepted
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 03:23:04PM -0500, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Robinson
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Re: BGP AS
Hi all,
What do I need to get an AS on the Internet? Money, a certain
number of IP's, the right ISP? Does anyone have specifics?
URL:
ASCII text shouldn't be accepted because:
Pen and paper is by far the most portable format on
the planet and beyond.
Not so in this context. Anyone interested in the Internet has access to the
Internet, and for anyone with access to the Internet, ASCII text is more
portable than printed
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Crowcroft typed:
ii) paper burns at farenheit 451 (ref: burroughs, '63, truffaut '68],
people pointed out (correctly) that the right reference here is
bradbury (ray, of light, not malcolm, of history) and not
burroughs (not Edgar (of detective story prize)
At 11.21 -0500 01-02-22, Keith Moore wrote:
Then, IMO ietf needs to define a set of XML tags and instead of 'well
defined' or valid HTML we will have 'valid' XML and it will be indexable
and the same every time, otherwise it won't render. :)
a fine idea and certanily doable, though it
At 08.02 -0500 01-02-22, V Guruprasad wrote:
On Wed 2001.02.21, Bora Akyol wrote:
I am trying (trying is the key word) to write Internet drafts on a
powerbook using MS Word with the template from the IETF web-site,
then using a PC to convert Word to text per the instructions.
Is there a
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 08:05:42AM -0800, Stephen McHenry wrote:
At 05:04 AM 2/22/2001, David C Lawrence wrote:
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
using Lynx on a terminal)?
Then, IMO ietf needs to define a set of XML tags and instead of 'well
defined' or valid HTML we will have 'valid' XML and it will be indexable
and the same every time, otherwise it won't render. :)
a fine idea and certanily doable, though it wouldn't allow people
to produce or read
Jon Crowcroft wrote:
no no no - like ascii, pencil and surface is re-usable, both for
revised drafts, and for keeping warm if the minneapolis weather should
change too quickly
stone is ok, but only for full standards and bcp
Some stones will keep you warm...assuming you don't mind
i) the americans spent a lot of money on spaceworthy pens,
but the russians showed that PENCILS are fine
ii) paper burns at farenheit 451 (ref: burroughs, '63, truffaut '68],
this many IETF meetings generate enough heat to ignite any draft being
discussed if presented in this format
so
these are the same people with archaic browsers and
e-mail clients that can't handle recent advances in technology - even to
the point of using "dumb" devices that can only handle ASCII?
"On the other hand," he said, drawing himself up to his full height
and putting on his 'serious' face,
At 13.36 -0500 01-02-22, Keith Moore wrote:
sure, and it's a fine way to create an I-D if you have the tools.
but if you have the tools to create an XML document then you probably
also have the tools to create an I-D in ASCII.
I write the XML in a text editor, aka email equivalent. The DTD is
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Henning Schulzrinne writes:
I would suggest stone tablets. This encourages conciseness and simpler
protocols. Plus, it has more effect when you hit an implementor that
doesn't adhere to the spec with the tablet.
I personally would prefer clay tablets for drafts.
The PWOT mailing list has been created for discussion
of Pseudo Wires Over Transport. PWOT is a descendant
of CEOT (Circulation Emulation Over Transport), and is
a to-be working group.
could you elaborate a bit? maybe a pointer to a web page with general info?
I've been involved with IP
AND that these are the same people with archaic browsers and
e-mail clients that can't handle recent advances in technology - even to
the point of using "dumb" devices that can only handle ASCII?
I doubt that any of those laptops could handle only ASCII.
But the fact is, many experts prefer
Patrick,
Thank you for your most helpful pointer:
I recently had my first experience using the setup described by
Marshall Rose in rfc2629 (Writing I-Ds and RFCs using XML) and was
very pleased. You should be able to create the XML base in Word (or
whatever) and use the referenced tools to
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:53:56 EST, Doug Sauder [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I read the entire XML-SOAP document on my PDA, and that convinced me
that reading documents on a small device is doable. I would be happy to
put lots of RFCs and I-Ds on my PDA and have them available even when I
don't
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 10:50:36PM -0800, Bora Akyol wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Also, why isn't HTML an accepted format for Internet Drafts, pretty
much everyone on the planet should be able to read an HTML file (even
using Lynx on a terminal)?
Honestly, I consider HTML a language not suitable
At 8:39 AM -0500 2/22/01, Rich Sena wrote:
Bora - use BBEDIT from Bare Bones http://www.barebones.com/ it is by far
the most versatile editing package and geared for taks such as that...
I have a small program I wrote a few years ago to format I-Ds. I
write them using BBEdit, then run
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:01:23 EST, you said:
I am not sure I agree with the statement that in 10 years XML will
be history. One of XML's greatest values is in the fact that it is a
good format for long-term archiving of written material. Some very
old material (several millenia old) is
Assumption:
Total Comprehensiveness of RFCs
= SIGMA { interest on RFC#i of reader#j
* familiarity on the presentation format of RFC#i of reader#j
}
for i = 1 to number of RFCs, j = 1 to number of readers.
Argument:
Some RFCs can be well-written in simple ASCII and become
On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:43:02 CST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jun'an Gao) said:
Assumption:
Total Comprehensiveness of RFCs
= SIGMA { interest on RFC#i of reader#j
* familiarity on the presentation format of RFC#i of reader#j
}
Notice that the second term evaluates to:
1 if
It seems we are all discussing the presentation (display, print, read,
etc.) of the document. But the purpose of XML is not presentation (i.e.
XML is not for display), but to make the document more meaningful.
XML can makes series of ASCII characters meaningful to computer programs.
With XML
Yet maybe we can safely assume that most of the people who are
interested in the Internet are, or will be in a short time, familiar
with XML documents.
where do you get that idea?
Absolutely not from IETF maillist.
And there're so many internet sites other than www.ietf.org.
Repeat after me:
Everybody can display ASCII. Until everybody can display XML, we won't
be using XML for the canonical form for RFCs. This is *different* than
what Marshall Rose did in RFC2629 - note that that document is itself
*flat ascii* describing how to write XML and *then convert
Wang Xianzhu wrote:
to render XML documents to pure text presentation. There will be
^^^
converters from XML to HTML, ms word, ps, pdf and any other types of
presentation, suitable for any type of readers.
Meanwhile I stick
Danny, Lloyd,
Having just been through this with midcom, may I suggest to Danny
and Luca that [EMAIL PROTECTED] opt out of the member-only posting
option on the IETF's mailman?
Allison (one of the co-ADs for both midcom and the proposed pwot).
Please clarify exactly what you mean by 'Member posting only' for an
IETF WG list. (You may wish to read recent discussion on poisson
over the last month first, and consider the implications.)
Anti-spam measures are in place (i.e., non-member posts are moderated).
I believe this should
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