Re: entirely read-only service

2003-12-27 Thread Mark Crispin
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Paul Jarc wrote: For the SELECT command, what should a server do for OK [UNSEEN n] when there are no unseen messages? Omit that part of the response? If there are no unseen messages, then the [UNSEEN n] response would be omitted. Right now, my greeting looks like * OK

Re: strange problem with connection.

2003-12-20 Thread Mark Crispin
The messages that you report indicate that the client never logged in. Perhaps your cell phone doesn't know how to do secure (SSL or TLS encrypted) connections, and wants to send the password in the clear? -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party

Re: What about /Recent?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Philip Guenther wrote: Wow. An internal session---perhaps real, perhaps nominal---open to each mailbox, *just* to avoid having to implement part of the protocol that you don't like. There are other bits in the RFC that I found tough to get right; you're telling me now

Re: What about /Recent?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: a) What professional mail server system today relies on any CLIENT checking for spam/viruses? Even if so, how on earth can one assume that ALL clients connecting do the proper virus checking. There are multiple levels of spam and virus checking.

Re: Extension for status updates of non-selected mailboxes?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Christof Drescher writes: Anyway: Do you argue such an extension would not be wise to have? There have been a great many attempts at this, all failed. I do not feel competent to judge why they failed, and how it can successfully be done. I can

Re: What about /Recent?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: I think I don't confuse anything about this issue. We were talking about the pro and cons of Mark's idea of RECENT update, and came about his example, which I questioned. I did not question IMAP specs or anything, and I did not bring up the

Re: Extension for status updates of non-selected mailboxes?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: One addition would then be the part of an extension: A command to supply a list of folders which it wants to receive untagged STATUS updates about. Wouldn't that be a really simple solution? Conforming? Rather easy to implement on both client and

Re: /Recent again...

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: Is a server broken in any way if it sends untagged STATUS updates at its desire? No. b) Which of these cases can happen if a Recent message arrives, if more than one session has a mailbox selected: - none gets a RECENT update - only one gets a

Re: Extension for status updates of non-selected mailboxes?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: So what? A server for which it is expensive to do this status update - don't advertise it in your CAPABILITY and you need not bother coding it. Right? Even if you advertise it and for a certain folder it is to expensive, give a NO response. You are

Re: /Recent again...

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: Just to make it totally clear to me: A message can be removed from the session-state list of \Recent messages ONLY by expunge? Correct. Or the other way round: A server MUST NOT change the \Recent flag for a single message at any time until a

Re: Extension for status updates of non-selected mailboxes?

2003-12-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: I'd be interested to see your argument for MESSAGES, because I assumed some coherence between MESSAGES and EXISTS, which is used to announce new mail in selected mailboxes. Or am I off the track again? The problem is that prior state is implied.

Re: What about /Recent?

2003-12-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Christof Drescher wrote: If this is the case, then what is the purpose of RECENT anyway?! I find recent to be very useful for virus/spam checking. If a session sees that a message is recent, then it is responsible for doing virus/spam checking on that message. If the

Re: SEARCH example and CC request

2003-12-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Pawel Salek wrote: Is the example in section 6.4.4. of rfc3501 correct? See ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/mail/rfc3501-errata or the rfc-editor.org errata web page. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public

Re: What about /Recent?

2003-12-15 Thread Mark Crispin
Here is one way to implement \Recent: Think of mail that has been newly delivered, but not yet processed by an IMAP server, as in recent state. Perhaps it has not yet been assigned a UID, perhaps it's in a spool area waiting to be moved to the mailbox. Another example is a traditional UNIX

Re: STATUS command (again)

2003-12-14 Thread Mark Crispin
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, DINH Viet Hoa wrote: But don't you think there is some waste of bandwidth using SEARCH instead of STATUS to get the number of UNSEEN messages ? If that is be anything other than a trivial consideration, there are other conditions in the selected mailbox which are simple to

Re: STATUS command (again)

2003-12-14 Thread Mark Crispin
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, DINH Viet Hoa wrote: The definition of RECENT messages after a NOOP could be used. I mean since the last time we got a RECENT unsollicited response (or sollicited). What is recent in the selected mailbox has no relationship to what is recent in a STATUS done by any other

Re: STATUS command (again)

2003-12-14 Thread Mark Crispin
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, DINH Viet Hoa wrote: The fact is that I do not need to fetch the message list but only the count of messages. But I still want the count of messages because the user wants to know if there are new or unread messages before he knows if it is worth fetching the list of

Re: FLAGS clarification

2003-12-11 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: The protocol doesn't forbid poor-quality implementations. You hit the nail on the head right there. That is absolutely correct; the protocol doesn't forbid poor-quality implementations. Poor-quality implementations are just as harmful as

Re: fetch + seen flag

2003-12-11 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, DINH Viet Hoa wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Marcel Crasmaru wrote: Suppose that message of sequence number 1 is unseen. The client issue the command: C: tag fetch 1 body[] and the server fetches the message but for some reasons it can not flag the message as

RE: FLAGS clarification

2003-12-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Richard Bang wrote: 004 STORE 1 FLAGS (\Seen) * 1 FETCH (FLAGS (\seen) UID 12) 004 OK STORE Completed but only for this session You shouldn't return UID for a non-UID FETCH that does not mention UID. Otherwise, it will break RFC 1176 clients. Better: 004 STORE 1 FLAGS

Re: FLAGS clarification

2003-12-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Patrick Bennett wrote: Well, in that case one would think that if you support IMAP4rev1 according to RFC2060, then by definition you support IMAP4rev1 (rfc3501). That is certainly correct for a client. Unfortunately, I don't believe that is the case. RFC3501 has

Re: What Server answer of SELECT Command?

2003-12-09 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Antonio Cambule wrote: That is why I said there should be no problem for me writing an IMAP Server. I think the most difficult work is done. It's only understanding the RFCs and examples in there and the methods IMAP works with. Your problems were in syntax errors. This

Re: FLAGS clarification

2003-12-09 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Richard Bang wrote: * FLAGS () Not compliant. System flags are mandatory-to-implement. The PERMANENTFLAGS list can be empty though. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Re: IMAP Unique Session ID?

2003-12-05 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Chun-Ping Man wrote: user A with account A sends a select-command and user B with account B sends a select-command too how does imap know which select command relate to which account ? IMAP is based upon TCP, which helpfully takes care of identifying separate sessions.

Re: PERMANENTFLAGS

2003-12-05 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, DINH Viet Hoa wrote: If this is required, maybe the following statement should be modified : OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (list of flags)] A list of message flags that the client can change permanently. If this is missing, the

Re: PERMANENTFLAGS

2003-12-04 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Alexey Melnikov wrote: My question is whether one can just return \* and don't list previously created keyword? One can in the same sense that one can implement an IMAP server that always deletes and expunges all messages (whether or not you had set the \Deleted flag) when

RE: PERMANENTFLAGS

2003-12-04 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Richard Bang wrote: A) any way to declare that all flags will be permanent, i.e. the server will set any flag on any message That is what PERMANENTFLAGS does, by listing all the flags that were in FLAGS, and by including \*. When you create a new keyword flag, you would

Re: PERMANENTFLAGS

2003-12-04 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: I believe the issue is: Does the server need to include all flags that have ever existed in the mailbox, or merely all flags that currently exist? Reading RFC 3501 page 64, either way seems legal. The meaning hinges on which flags the server is

Re: Difference about LSUB and LIST

2003-12-02 Thread Mark Crispin
The closest analog to what SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE manages are the subscribed newsgroups in a UNIX .newsrc file, or the bookmarks in your favorite browser. LSUB lists the current contents of such a list. Note that LSUB may include names that do not currently exist; the idea being that you could

Re: Recommendations for IMAP Client

2003-11-24 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: After the fetch of BODY[STRUCTURE], the client can fetch the HEADERs it wants in the MIME sub-messages, don't you think so ? Well, something like that. All that should be needed is IDs for each MIME part and each part having their parent's ID so

Re: Recommendations for IMAP Client

2003-11-24 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: Body location was added to BODYSTRUCTURE in RFC3501. Are you going to keep adding new fields to it whenever new useful fields are invented? By design, MIME encourages the use of existing fields rather than a boundless addition of new fields. Most new

Re: IMAP questions and tutorial

2003-11-21 Thread Mark Crispin
I suggest that you buy a copy of the following two books: 1) Internet Email Protocols: A Developer's Guide, by Kevin Johnson, published by Addison Wesley, ISBN 0-201-43288-9. 2) Managing IMAP, by Dianna Mullet Kevin Mullet, published by O'Reilly, ISBN 0-596-00012-X. The first book describes

Re: expunge and messages count

2003-11-19 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, DINH Viet Hoa wrote: As I could understand, in IMAP, we can keep a track of number of messages. But what about recent or unseen messages ? should we always use SEARCH to get the exact count ? Any change to the RECENT count is noted with a new untagged RECENT count. This is

Re: imap folders-entire home directory

2003-11-08 Thread Mark Crispin
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Nathan Brown wrote: When I added an IMAP account and pressed check mail, it retrieved the new messages as well as adding everything in my home directory on the mail server to my folders list on my email client! What should I do? This is a bug/misfeature of your IMAP client;

NO SEARCH error 87 in StartMailFolderSearch

2003-11-07 Thread Mark Crispin
Does anybody know what IMAP server implementation issues that error message? Or does anybody recognize this as being an error message from their IMAP server? We have a user who is encountering problems because the IMAP server is giving that error in response to a SEARCH command. -- Mark --

Re: NO SEARCH error 87 in StartMailFolderSearch

2003-11-07 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: We have a user who is encountering problems because the IMAP server is giving that error in response to a SEARCH command. The user can't give you anything other than the error message? They can't glean anything from the banner or find any

Re: entirely read-only service

2003-11-04 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:46:47PM -0500, Paul Jarc wrote: I'm writing an entirely read-only IMAP server; it's mainly intended for serving mailing list archives. Just like a web archive, it lets anyone in (PREAUTH greeting), Many clients don't

Re: SEARCH response(s)

2003-11-04 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: It make sense. Imagine a server processing a search: for each message in the mailbox: think about whether this message matches the search if there are any matches that have been known for two seconds: send all matches so far in a

RE: Recommendations for IMAP Client

2003-10-30 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Richard Bang wrote: I will exclude Pine from my discussion because, while it is much liked by Marc, I have never heard of a single commercial user using it and Mark none of the customers I have ever asked have heard of it. Given that many of us work in the

RE: Recommendations for IMAP Client

2003-10-30 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, DINH [iso-8859-15] Vi$Bj(Bt Ho$B`(B wrote: could you be more explicit about the problem with delete-expunge model and unsolicited data model ? Many clients wish to present a trashcan type graphical model, and expect the server to implement that model by means of a Trash

Re: mbox, cluster, nfs !!!???

2003-10-30 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Yanik Charbonneau wrote: 3 Linux servers serving imap/pop for 5 (1000 active) users from nfs mounted homes. Using mbox format. Is this possible? Apperently not! It's supposed to be possible; however, some NFS implementations allow the buffer cache to get out of sync

Re: Exchange server has a broken SASL implementation

2003-10-27 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance/release pressure/lack of time/blah/blah. So far, every Microsoft programmer I've spoken to seemed to try hard. (I'm not saying they succeed, but I _am_ saying they don't

Re: Exchange server has a broken SASL implementation

2003-10-27 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Alexey Melnikov wrote: We have seen this happen over and over again. The documents are broken. Mark, this is not constructive. Please, suggest concrete changes. The I-Ds that Rob has released are those changes. We need to push to get those I-Ds reviewed and approved.

Re: Exchange server has a broken SASL implementation

2003-10-27 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: But given the number of protocol bugs that we have seen (and remain unfixed), I would question whether the specs are consulted regularly or interop testing is done with non-Microsoft products. There are plenty of ways that the SMTP GSSPI bug could

Re: UNSEEN response clarification

2003-10-24 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Slavo Uhrin wrote: in 6.3.1 it is stated that the untagged UNSEEN response to SELECT is REQUIRED and that server MUST send the listed untagged data to the client. However, in detailed explaining of UNSEEN we can read that if this is missing, the client cannot make any

Re: another RFC 3501 errata

2003-10-21 Thread Mark Crispin
Hi Bob - Please review the following rewritten RFC 3501 errata and see if it matches with your criteria for inclusion on the RFC Editor errata. Thanks, -- Mark -- Section 2.3.1.1, page 8: old: A 32-bit value assigned to each message, which when used with the unique identifier

Re: another RFC 3501 errata

2003-10-21 Thread Mark Crispin
Philip Guenther is right on both counts. Below is the amended errata. Thanks all for the help! -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. Section 2.3.1.1, page 8: old: A 32-bit value

Re: another RFC 3501 errata

2003-10-17 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Bob Braden wrote: Unfortunately that seems to fall outside what we would consider to be an erratum. It is a substantive change to the document. If it's important, you could publish 1-page containing it. There is no rule that RFCs have to be longer than 100 pages ;-) Hi

Re: Correct response when fetching an invalid message

2003-10-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Slavo Uhrin wrote: What exactly should server do when fetching a message with invalid MIME header or body? If you are talking about a message with RFC 2822 or MIME syntax errors, the answer is: Garbage In, Garbage Out The server may do whatever it wants. If it

Re: Standalone operation

2003-10-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Chris Wilson wrote: squirrelmail says it'll improve my performance, kinda makes sense. http://www.squirrelmail.org/wiki/en_US/SquirrelMailPerformance That document is wrong. This is a case where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, since it transforms into myth. --

Re: Standalone operation

2003-10-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Marc Groot Koerkamp wrote: Talking about imap proxies, are there imap proxies around that do more then handle the login stage only. I.e. buffering all the unsollicited responses between 2 pageloads (in case of webmail). And if they do, are there limitations to the amount

Re: Standalone operation

2003-10-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote: Are there inetd implementation that doesn't result in a fork() + exec()? A standalone implementation might remove the need for a fork() + exec(), which would improve performance. Each UW imapd must run in its own process. Your question is therefore

Re: Correct response when fetching a non existent message seq.

2003-10-09 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Marc Groot Koerkamp wrote: According me the courier response is wrong, uw and cyrus responses are right. Courier is quite broken, and has always been broken. Courier is not an IMAP server; and sites which run Courier do not offer IMAP. I gave up on its author some time

Re: Message 186 UID 361 greater than last 189 ???

2003-10-08 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Mark Champion wrote: It is IMAP. I use IMAP for pine and squirrelmail. You mentioned POP. So, are you using both IMAP and POP? If so, what POP server implementation? -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public

Re: address books

2003-10-07 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: How? Is there an IMAP extension? Can you point me to a document defining how other clients should use the same address book and interoperate with Pine? Address books are just ordinary mailboxes, but in a form that Pine can use. Presumably, any

Re: address books

2003-10-06 Thread Mark Crispin
Pine supports remote address books via IMAP. It works quite well, although I don't know if any non-Pine IMAP clients support it. We do not support ACAP at UW. I do not know if Outlook or Mozilla support ACAP. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting,

Re: Message 186 UID 361 greater than last 189 ???

2003-10-06 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Mark Champion wrote: I understand that message UID order is somehow mixed up, but I don't know how to fix it. You can't fix it. All you can do is prevent it from happening again. You are almost certainly using traditional UNIX mailbox format. Something other than [imapd

Re: Basic IMAP server with plain text login. BAD login every time.

2003-10-05 Thread Mark Crispin
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Nathan Brown wrote: I have recently compiled uw-imap (make bsf SSLTYPE=none) and whenever I try to login with any system user (excluding root) it rejects my login. * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 LOGIN-REFERRALS STARTTLS LOGINDISABLED] sentinelc0de.net IMAP4rev1 2003.339 at

Re: UID and sequence numbers

2003-10-03 Thread Mark Crispin
does this mean that if we get the list of all messages of a mailbox and whether we sort them using UID or sequence number, we will get the same sequence ? Yes. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para

Re: Any restrictions on out-of-band untagged responses to EXPUNGE?

2003-10-02 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, David Harris wrote: Is it reasonable for client 1 to receive this response (assuming that the sequence numbers are correctly adjusted as required): AAA EXPUNGE * x FETCH (FLAGS (\DELETED)) * x EXPUNGE * y EXPUNGE AAA OK Expunge Completed Yes. IMAP's unsolicited data

Re: RFC822 single file mail store

2003-09-23 Thread Mark Crispin
Your easiest approach would be to start with one of the existing one-message/one-file drivers in UW imapd; that is, the mh or mx drivers. mx is preferable, since it fully support IMAP; mh is a compatibility mode driver which has only limited IMAP support. mx uses a separate file, .mxindex, in

Re: RFC822 single file mail store

2003-09-23 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Rob Siemborski wrote: If Craig is going to be hacking a new mailbox format backend onto whatever server, I'm almost certain he'll be happier with UW, since UW abstracts the format of the mailboxes away from the protocol layer significantly better than Cyrus does (since

Re: LIST

2003-09-19 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Mark Crispin writes: Most of the people who express bewilderment about listing foo/ don't deal with such a store. Why should client authors deal with such a store? RFC 3501 gives me the impression that IMAP clients deal with IMAP only; they're

Re: LIST

2003-09-19 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote: IMAP provides a transparent interface against any mail store, and IMAP client should not have to deal with different mail stores as long as both they and the server both speak perfect IMAP. Correct. If my client needs to know how \Noselect

RE: LIST

2003-09-18 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Larry Osterman wrote: One really simple example of a store that has \NoSelect name with children is the NNTP store. An IMAP server that exposes an NNTP hierarchy exposes comp.mail.imap even though there is no comp newsgroup - such a store has to expose comp as a \NoSelect

Re: SHOULD, \Marked, \Noselect

2003-09-17 Thread Mark Crispin
I agree. I've updated ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/mail/rfc3501-errata to note this. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Agreed. What is being discussed is whether INBOX/ must also be returned. Well, is there anything that says it must? I find no wording to that effect. This is what Rob has been saying all along. Yes. IMHO, Rob is right. Then that the concensus

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Rob Siemborski wrote: I suppose this depends on your definition of harmless. I wouldn't want a server that doesn't do this declared at all noncompliant. Agreed; there is no harm in not doing this if the server does not have have such a thing as a \NoSelect name without

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: For those of us still trying to understand the downsides of this, can you provide an example of how such ambiguity would case incorrect client behavior? If LIST does not inform the client that the name exists, then the client may attempt a CREATE

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: If a store can contain entities that are both \noselect and \noinferior, then IMHO it follows that said store is not (exclusively) a mail store. Correct. So, why should the IMAP server be telling the IMAP client about entities that have nothing to

Re: BINARY[] question

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: I consider this to be a bug in RFC 3516. If it intended to make BINARY[] valid, it should have used the RFC 3501 section rule. Fetching BINARY[..] for message/rfc822 body part has the same problem. As does MULTIPART/...anything... Do you have any

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Pete Maclean wrote: Consider a store that can contain email messages, appointments, addresses, notes, etcetera, with items of each class restricted to separate containers but with all such containers in a common hierarchy. Am I correct in thinking that this would be an

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Rob Siemborski wrote: I don't think IMAP has anything to say on the matter, really, since the specification has remained silent on the issue. There is quite a bit of IMAP which is unsaid but (for better or worse) thought to be obvious because it was the useful behavior. In

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: what you are driving at. Maybe I'm just being thick, but why should a client have to worry about the difference between foo and foo/? It doesn't; foo does not match foo/% but foo/ does, so foo/ has to be used. Do mainstream clients (other than Pine)

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: Unless you mean that in some cases client would want to ask just foo/% without knowing if foo exists or not? Why would it do that? Yes, I mean that. It does that because that's a view configured in the client. -- Mark --

Re: LIST

2003-09-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: Why should a client have to create foo/ as a placeholder before creating foo/bar? Why not just create foo/bar in the first place? You're asking the wrong question. What if foo/bar is created, and then deleted. The Cyrus attitude is that there is

Re: LIST

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: That client is asking information about mailboxes whose names start with foo/ and contain exactly one /, right? foo does not match that, so why should the server mention foo at all? foo/ is just one of the umpteen million possible names that don't

Re: LIST

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: Hmm. So is it necessary to send foo/ at all if at least one of it's children is listed? IMHO, yes. Otherwise the behavior is inconsistent 1 create dir/ 2 list dir/% Is it required to show the dir/ entry? Yes, it is. The only difference between

Re: BINARY[] question

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: What is the meaning of BINARY[]? I think that it should be a syntax error, but unfortunately the section-binary rule in RFC 3516 is: section-binary = [ [section-part] ] instead of: section-binary = [ section-part ] I consider this to be a bug

Re: LIST

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: Maildir itself doesn't have any standard where other than INBOX should be placed. Courier's Maildir++ places everything into ~/Maildir/ directory with '.' separating hierarchies. So it's possible to create .1.2 directory without having .1. OK, I

Re: BINARY[] question

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: What is the meaning of BINARY[]? I think that it should be a syntax error, but unfortunately the section-binary rule in RFC 3516 is: section-binary = [ [section-part] ] instead of: section-binary = [ section-part ] I consider this

Re: BINARY[] question

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: I guess we didn't do a very good job during last call of this doc ;) I've only stumbled into these issues while implementing it. Maybe (as Rob suggested offline) that independent interoperable implementations should be a prereq (or at least strongly

Re: LIST

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Lawrence Greenfield wrote: Cyrus has never had this behavior. Cyrus does not have such a thing as a \NoSelect mailbox with no children. On a server which has such a thing as a \NoSelect mailbox with no children, it becomes very important to respond to foo/% with foo/ since

Re: LIST

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Ken Murchison wrote: However, INBOX/ does; and if INBOX is not \NoInferiors then that name should be shown. Are you saying that a client depends on this in order to determine that the mailbox can contain submailboxes? Yes. If a server returns INBOX and not

Re: LIST

2003-09-15 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Rob Siemborski wrote: While I think its somewhat bizarre to report a leaf mailbox that is \NoSelect and doesn't have any children, I can atleast appreciate why this is necessary in some environments. However, as you say, such a case does not apply to all servers (and

Re: a synchronization issue

2003-09-11 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Marcel Crasmaru wrote: c1: a store 1 +flags (\Deleted) s : * 1 FETCH (FLAGS (\Deleted) UID 3) s : a OK store So far, so good. c2: aa store 2 +flags.silent (\Deleted) s : * 1 FETCH (FLAGS (\Deleted) UID 3) s : aa OK store The FETCH response is wrong. The change was to

RE: a synchronization issue

2003-09-11 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, warren l brown wrote: s : * 2 EXPUNGE s : * 1 EXPUNGE For starters, I think that the responses need to be reordered: s : * 1 EXPUNGE s : * 2 EXPUNGE No. The original example expunges original messages 1 and 2. Your example expunges original messages 1 and 3. If the

Re: a synchronization issue

2003-09-11 Thread Mark Crispin
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: No. Note that C2 STOREs +FLAGS.SILENT, and is thus not sent an update of message #2's flags. The FETCH response is telling it about the change to message #1 by C1. You're correct. As the Japanese say, even monkey falls from the tree. ;-) -- Mark

Re: \NoSelect

2003-09-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote: Mozilla's IMAP client interprets the \NoSelect as an implicit \NoInferiors, that is - it assumes that Dev has no submailboxes. If true, that is certainly a bug in Mozilla's IMAP client. \NoSelect certainly does not imply \NoInferiors; in

RE: \NoSelect

2003-09-10 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Larry Osterman wrote: My take is that this is a bug of Mozilla - \NoSelect means exactly what it says - the mailbox has no inferiors. can not be selected -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from

Re: Best practice for syntactically invalid message-ids?

2003-09-07 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, David Harris wrote: I'm looking for guidance on the best practice when handling syntactically invalid message id's in FETCH ENVELOPE responses. It was my intent when defining IMAP that an IMAP server not do any special syntax handling of the Message-ID; that is, it would

Re: which server implements IMAP referals these days RFC2193?

2003-09-03 Thread Mark Crispin
UW imapd implements RFC 2193 if the underlying mail store does. None of the supplied mail store drivers do, but the means to add it is straightforward. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Re: ACL support?

2003-08-29 Thread Mark Crispin
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Rick Updegrove wrote: Does wu-imap support ACL (Access Contol Lists)? Presumably you mean UW imapd. UW is the University of Washington in Seattle; WU is Washington University in St. Louis. UW imapd does not support RFC 2086 ACL. It is not technically possible to support

Re: Speed...

2003-08-29 Thread Mark Crispin
July 2003 02:37 am, Mark Crispin wrote: Have you read the FAQs in imap-200?/docs/FAQ.txt or http://www.washington.edu/imap? -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Re: Change home dir requires recompile?

2003-08-27 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, William O'Shea wrote: You only have to get the config file right once and it would stay that way through any upgrade. Actually, that isn't true; or rather, that has historically not been the case with imapd. There is an unsupported config file capability. There is a way

Re: SEARCH and MIME parts

2003-08-20 Thread Mark Crispin
On Tue, 20 Aug 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: SEARCH BODY and TEXT isn't really well defined regarding how they're supposed to handle multipart messages. There's a comment that servers may exclude non-text parts, so they're not always required to do exact text matching at least.. There is a

Re: Issues with the BINARY extension

2003-08-18 Thread Mark Crispin
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Pete Maclean wrote: A related issue is that I feel the need for some clarification on the whole business of commands completely succeeding or completely failing. I have come to regard this as an important dictum for IMAP implementation as it has been mentioned a few times

Re: STORE atomicity

2003-07-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: Shared mailboxes are exactly where I was thinking this read-lockless store would work very well. You never have to wait for locks when you're reading the store, and more importantly you never have to wait for readers to finish before you get a write

Re: STORE atomicity

2003-07-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: What if the mailbox is all the time opened by other clients, are the messages ever really expunged? Then the space never gets recovered, at least not until there is some sort of system maintenance garbage-collection. That's why I'd rather not have any

Re: STORE atomicity

2003-07-16 Thread Mark Crispin
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Timo Sirainen wrote: rename(). You rewrite the file and rename it over the old one. Next synchronization check notices this and reopens the file. This would require exclusive locking for all modifications though. Yes; otherwise you have to synchronize changes in the old

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