[PHP-DEV] PHP 4 Bug Summary Report

2005-11-28 Thread internals
PHP 4 Bug Database summary - http://bugs.php.net Num Status Summary (636 total including feature requests) ===[Arrays related]=== 31114 Assigned foreach modify array ===[CGI

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Jani Taskinen
Oh, I didn't know you could nest these things.. -1000 for whole namespace idea: PREFIX! --Jani On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Andrei Zmievski wrote: Gah! I have to squint and count the colons in something like System:::Socket:::Pair::open(). Yikes. My vote is for \. -Andrei On Nov

Re: [PHP-DEV] Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Sara, sorry to jump in, i didn'T read the thread but i have more ideas. From my point of view view should have the whole thing support any target. So idefinitively want to call it goto and if it cannot be goto i want to favor log_jump or long_goto or hey what about 'bad'. Also can't we do

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Zeev Suraski
I'm indifferent to adding the restricted goto, and against adding a full-featured goto. We can do well without either of them. Zeev At 02:27 28/11/2005, George Schlossnagle wrote: me 3. goto is good. Wez Furlong wrote: me also On 11/27/05, Edin Kadribasic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread David Zülke
Why would you have to do that. You only have to look at the last :: / ::: sequence. It's not that hard. - David Am 28.11.2005 um 07:27 schrieb Andrei Zmievski: Gah! I have to squint and count the colons in something like System:::Socket:::Pair::open(). Yikes. My vote is for \. -Andrei

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Dmitry Stogov
Marcus, You saw my patch that works with :: and doesn't break any scripts. Dmitry. -Original Message- From: Marcus Boerger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:42 PM To: Bob Silva Cc: 'Christian Schneider'; 'PHP internals' Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP

[PHP-DEV] PHP 5 Bug Summary Report

2005-11-28 Thread internals
PHP 5 Bug Database summary - http://bugs.php.net Num Status Summary (396 total including feature requests) ===[*General Issues]== 25665 Assigned var_dump/print_r hang on NaN and INF 26771 Suspended register_tick_funtions crash under

Re: [PHP-DEV] ?xml tags (was PDM Meeting Notes)

2005-11-28 Thread Bastian Grupe
What concerns me most is that ?php= does not work, regardless if short tags will be disabled or not in php6. I currently use %= to counter this, but I am most certainly *not* happy with it. So a clean ?php= solution would be ideal, so I wouldn't have to care about xml/xsl files parsed and

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread David Zülke
:: would work? +1 then - David Am 28.11.2005 um 09:27 schrieb Dmitry Stogov: Marcus, You saw my patch that works with :: and doesn't break any scripts. Dmitry. -Original Message- From: Marcus Boerger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:42 PM To: Bob

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
NBNgives the opportunity to screw their code to programmers, are you also NBNaffirming that C programmers are smarter than PHP programmers ? Goto has had Code of C programmers oftenly harder to understand, especially when features like goto are used, especially if the programmer does not take

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
IPCIt seems illogical to put a limit on jumping backwards just because IPCsomeone mihgt make messy code. People are perfectly capable of IPCmaking messy code regardless of what steps you might make to try to IPCprevent it. This is not correct. Example: if we had pointers (meaning, real

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Lester Caine
Zeev Suraski wrote: I'm indifferent to adding the restricted goto, and against adding a full-featured goto. We can do well without either of them. As I keep being told - If you don't like something you don't have to use it ;) But while a controlled goto could be a useful tool for some

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
OGBUT the discussion is not only about possibility but also about what you OGwould like. The : for example would work if mandatory whitespace would OGbe introduced for the ternary BUT this is very very bad. If my vote is counted (not that I asked for it :) then I vote against all funky syntax,

[PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Piotr Roszatycki
The PHP 5.0.5 disappeared from download page. What does it mean? There will be 5.0.6? 5.0.4 is the last from 5.0.x series? -- .''`.Piotr Roszatycki, Netia SA : :' :mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `' mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Edin Kadribasic
Lester Caine wrote: So rather than wasting time getting all my sites working with PHP5.0.5 (which is why *I* have not had time to run up 5.1 yet) I should have taken the other option and ignored it and gone straight to since now I have to go through the same exercise to get 5.1 playing fairly

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Lester Caine
Edin Kadribasic wrote: Lester Caine wrote: So rather than wasting time getting all my sites working with PHP5.0.5 (which is why *I* have not had time to run up 5.1 yet) I should have taken the other option and ignored it and gone straight to since now I have to go through the same exercise to

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Bastian Grupe
My primary concern is that 5.0.5 still consists some (in 5.1 resolved) bugs and security holes. Since it is unlikely to assume that people will move to 5.1.1 immediately IMO there should be a 5.0.6 with the current fixes. Piotr Roszatycki wrote: The PHP 5.0.5 disappeared from download page.

Re: [PHP-DEV] get_headers patch

2005-11-28 Thread Hannes Magnusson
On 11/25/05, Arnar Mar Sigurðsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a update of the get_headers patch i sent in a long time ago and was ignored. Patch is written with the latest cvs snapshot of 5.1. Hope it makes it way to 5.1.1 Info: mixed get_headers ( string url [, bool format | string

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Edin Kadribasic
Lester Caine wrote: But is not available for windows yet :( In the meantime I am still receiving 'complaints' from people who have only just switched to 5.0.5 - and now their sites don't work - As well as people WHO I HAVE TOLD NOT TO USE 5.1 who - can't get my code to run on it. *PLEASE*

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Lester Caine
Edin You are missing my point - I'd rather STOP people downloading the stuff that is CAUSING problems everywhere !!! I am still playing catchup with 5.0.5 and now there ase 'complaints' on various forums that some package does not work with 5.1 - do I now fix that - since people are NOT

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Antony Dovgal
On 28.11.2005 15:01, Lester Caine wrote: Edin You are missing my point - I'd rather STOP people downloading the stuff that is CAUSING problems everywhere !!! I am still playing catchup with 5.0.5 and now there ase 'complaints' on various forums that some package does not work with 5.1 - do

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Lester Caine
Antony Dovgal wrote: On 28.11.2005 15:01, Lester Caine wrote: Edin You are missing my point - I'd rather STOP people downloading the stuff that is CAUSING problems everywhere !!! I am still playing catchup with 5.0.5 and now there ase 'complaints' on various forums that some package does

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Antony Dovgal
On 28.11.2005 15:35, Lester Caine wrote: Antony Dovgal wrote: On 28.11.2005 15:01, Lester Caine wrote: Edin You are missing my point - I'd rather STOP people downloading the stuff that is CAUSING problems everywhere !!! I am still playing catchup with 5.0.5 and now there ase 'complaints'

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Pierre
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:35:46 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lester Caine) wrote: And please, when you say it has been broken yet again, explain what do you mean by that. Exactly what I have said - I'm still fixing 5.0.5 problems - now in packages like PHPDocumentor - which no one else seems

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Oliver Grätz
Stanislav Malyshev schrieb: OGBUT the discussion is not only about possibility but also about what you OGwould like. The : for example would work if mandatory whitespace would OGbe introduced for the ternary BUT this is very very bad. If my vote is counted (not that I asked for it :) then I

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Ford, Mike
On 28 November 2005 09:50, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: BUT the discussion is not only about possibility but also about what you would like. The : for example would work if mandatory whitespace would be introduced for the ternary BUT this is very very bad. If my vote is counted (not

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
OGWell, some people always keep throwing that already used symbols cannot OGbe used for other purposes. :: is used for resolving class scope. Well, Well, namespace scope and class scope are close enough so that this mixing up would be bearable (and regarding class resolution and namespace

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Oliver Grätz
Stanislav Malyshev schrieb: yacc can look one token ahead, AFAIR. This could help for :: (reading a name and seeing Oh, one more ::, so this is one more namespace), but not for : (there the change of operator precedence would still be needed). OK, now this would have to be sorted out by some

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Israel Alpert
Can somebody help me stop the flood of income e-mails from PHP? I've signed to the newsletter and, during the last two month, made many attempts to unsubscribe - none works and I am getting 100's of e-mails from you. Please take me off the mailing list! Israel Oulik Alpert President CEO

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.0.5?

2005-11-28 Thread Piotr Roszatycki
Dnia Monday 28 of November 2005 12:13, Bastian Grupe napisał: My primary concern is that 5.0.5 still consists some (in 5.1 resolved) bugs and security holes. Since it is unlikely to assume that people will move to 5.1.1 immediately IMO there should be a 5.0.6 with the current fixes. From

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Dmitry, Can you send me the patch (or alternatively, where can I get it)? I'd like to see how you did this. My problem with :: is that you can't distinguish between calling a function in a namespace and calling a static method, e.g.: a::b() This can mean either call static method b of class a

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Ron Korving
wow, I like foo~bar~obj-method() I love ':' best, but if that really can't be, I must say '~' looks pretty cool to me, cute even, like a little fishie ;) anywaaay.. the best alternative to ':' i've seen so far, and i doubt it'll cause problems with any existing operator. - ron Ford, Mike

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Marian Kostadinov
Is ` (back quote) suitable for namespace separator? I cannot remember just now if it was used somewhere. 2005/11/28, Ron Korving [EMAIL PROTECTED]: wow, I like foo~bar~obj-method() I love ':' best, but if that really can't be, I must say '~' looks pretty cool to me, cute even, like a little

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Sebastian
It's used for shell execution stuff. Perl did something similar and quickly regretted it On 11/28/05, Marian Kostadinov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is ` (back quote) suitable for namespace separator? I cannot remember just now if it was used somewhere. 2005/11/28, Ron Korving [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Bart de Boer
Well, the problem is: '-' isn't used for classes. It's used for objects! An object is an instance of a class. '~' Would be more appropriate if there would be such a thing as an instance of a namespace. But not for accessing the namespace itself. (In my opinion) This is why I think it should

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Sean Coates
How about ;; then? name1;;name2::myfunction(); PLEASE, MAKE IT STOP! ;; is already perfectly valid syntax: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ php5 -r 'define(name1,FALSE); class name2{function myfunction(){ echo foo\n; }} name1;;name2::myfunction();' foo * Pre-existing operators are out of the question. *

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Greg Beaver
Stanislav Malyshev wrote: OGBUT the discussion is not only about possibility but also about what you OGwould like. The : for example would work if mandatory whitespace would OGbe introduced for the ternary BUT this is very very bad. If my vote is counted (not that I asked for it :) then I vote

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Bob Silva
Has there ever been a formal specification for what functionality namespaces should provide within PHP? I don't see how we can help if we don't know what your ideas for namespaces are. I would be more than happy to start one so we can get a consensus on what namespaces (if implemented) will look

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Bart de Boer
I'm sorry if I say stupid stuff. My previous post actually was the first post I've ever made to a newsgroup! Please bare with me while I adjust to the etiquettes. :) Anyway. Somebody has probably already suggested this. But how about: namespace1}{Date::myfunction();

[PHP-DEV] Please update the PHP Museum!

2005-11-28 Thread Gabor Hojtsy
Hi, It would be really nice for our php.net mirrors if the PHP Museum would include some more past releases of PHP. The latest in the Museum are 4.3.9RC1 and 5.0.1, which means that the mirrors need to host all version up from these, which is getting to be too many. Please update the PHP Museum

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Bob, As I posted several months ago, I'm happy with just having classes in namespaces. The idea for functions/constants came from Derick's meeting notes page (http://php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html) and these were listed as requirements, though I doubt that they're really needed also.

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Sebastian
ew On 11/28/05, Bart de Boer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry if I say stupid stuff. My previous post actually was the first post I've ever made to a newsgroup! Please bare with me while I adjust to the etiquettes. :) Anyway. Somebody has probably already suggested this. But how about:

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Sara Golemon
namespace1}{Date::myfunction(); namespace2}{Date::Otherfunction(); For the same reason that ;; isn't doable (and worse actually). echo The Baz constant in the Bar class of the Foo namespace is: {Foo}{Bar::Baz}, or is it? Don'tcha hate tokens with multiple meanings?; -- PHP Internals - PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] Please update the PHP Museum!

2005-11-28 Thread Jacques Marneweck
Gabor Hojtsy wrote: Hi, It would be really nice for our php.net mirrors if the PHP Museum would include some more past releases of PHP. The latest in the Museum are 4.3.9RC1 and 5.0.1, which means that the mirrors need to host all version up from these, which is getting to be too many.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Please update the PHP Museum!

2005-11-28 Thread Wez Furlong
Why not simply have the museum rsync the distributions dir nightly? It would then be a simple matter to remove older releases from cvs. --Wez On 11/28/05, Jacques Marneweck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gabor Hojtsy wrote: Hi, It would be really nice for our php.net mirrors if the PHP Museum

[PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word))

2005-11-28 Thread Ron Korving
Well, at least now we know that 'goto' is the way to go: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/05/11/28/1257216.shtml?tid=156tid=218 j/k of course :) Ron -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Dmitry, your patch wasn't complete. There are conflicts as soon as you have subnamespaces or constsants. marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:27:19 AM, you wrote: Marcus, You saw my patch that works with :: and doesn't break any scripts. Dmitry. -Original Message- From:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
MB your patch wasn't complete. There are conflicts as soon as you have MBsubnamespaces or constsants. You mean namespace contsants? I don't think they are needed. You can always define utility class for them if you want. As for subnamespaces, which I think also not necessary anyway, I don't

Re: [PHP-DEV] ?xml tags (was PDM Meeting Notes)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Bastian, id like to see '?php=' too. marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:56:56 AM, you wrote: What concerns me most is that ?php= does not work, regardless if short tags will be disabled or not in php6. I currently use %= to counter this, but I am most certainly *not* happy with

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Stanislav, cool argument: as long as there are worse features we can add anything? :-)) best regards marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 10:38:35 AM, you wrote: IPCIt seems illogical to put a limit on jumping backwards just because IPCsomeone mihgt make messy code. People are

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
MBbrains sooner or later. On the other hand \ has a clear visible split MBmeaning. That is all the namespace operator must have besides not Yes, except that it is used as escape character in a dozen of languages or more and automatically recognized as such by any experienced programmer, who

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Stanislav, easy changing of behavior in classes of a namespace by only changing one value for instance. namespace Foo { const XYZ = 42; class Bar { const = Foo::XYZ; //... } class Baz { const = Foo::XYZ; //... } } marcus Monday,

RE: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Israel Alpert
Can somebody help me stop the flood of income e-mails from PHP? I've signed to the newsletter and, during the last two month, made many attempts to unsubscribe - none works and I am getting 100's of e-mails from you. Please take me off the mailing list! Israel Oulik Alpert President CEO

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Stas, I agree that namespace constants are not needed, and are even problematic. If I import a namespace that is divided among several files and I use a constant from that namespace, __autoload won't let me find, and I won't know where it is either. It's better to have a Config class under the

Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace separator poll, update

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Oliver, just once again for the record: :: is *not* working. marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 2:52:50 PM, you wrote: Stanislav Malyshev schrieb: OGBUT the discussion is not only about possibility but also about what you OGwould like. The : for example would work if mandatory

Re: [PHP-DEV] Please update the PHP Museum!

2005-11-28 Thread Gabor Hojtsy
Why not simply have the museum rsync the distributions dir nightly? It would then be a simple matter to remove older releases from cvs. Fine with me. Goba -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Hello Marcus, Marcus Boerger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Stanislav, easy changing of behavior in classes of a namespace by only changing one value for instance. namespace Foo { const XYZ = 42; class Bar { const = Foo::XYZ;

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
MBcool argument: as long as there are worse features we can add anything? :-)) No, as long as the feature has high abuse potential (hint: goto does) it is better not to add it. Of course, it's not always possible, some features are vital even if dangerous. But goto is nowhere near vital,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Stanislav, and don't forget that in languages like C you cannot take out the goto because you would need to develop tons of compiler tools from scratch. We are on the other end we don't have to decide if we can get the devil out of php but simply decide not to let the devil in. If you

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere)

2005-11-28 Thread Bart de Boer
Namespace constants can be handy if you'd want to include some library that uses predefined constants and classes that might conflict with other classes and constants in the script. namespace someLib { include('huge_conflicting_library_that_I_dont_want_to_reverse_engineer'); } Stanislav

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
MBWe are on the other end we don't have to decide if we can get the devil out MBof php but simply decide not to let the devil in. If you really need goto I agree with that. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Products Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zend.com/ +972-3-6139665 ext.115 -- PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Stanislav, even if we wouldn't allow them the users would get conflicts in their brains sooner or later. On the other hand \ has a clear visible split meaning. That is all the namespace operator must have besides not causing any conflict in the parser or human brains. Btw, during paris

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Stanislav, nothing really. I only think that it is easier to have the consts in the namespace then in an extra class. I probably would call the class 'Config' or 'Setup' or alike then. But if i'd do that i'd be missing features like static classes the php workaround would be 'abstract

Re: [PHP-DEV] Please update the PHP Museum!

2005-11-28 Thread Jacques Marneweck
Wez Furlong wrote: Why not simply have the museum rsync the distributions dir nightly? It would then be a simple matter to remove older releases from cvs. Looks like we need to chat to Derick once he's back from his holiday, seeing that ez1.php.net hosts that site. Regards --jm --Wez On

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
BdBuses predefined constants and classes that might conflict with other BdBclasses and constants in the script. Just a sec. For now, there's no constants outside of classes AFAIR? Only define() and class constants. So your library won't refer to any namespace constants, right? So how namespace

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
MB'Config' or 'Setup' or alike then. But if i'd do that i'd be missing MBfeatures like static classes the php workaround would be 'abstract MBfinal class'. Only: Why should it be final? Extending it won't do any problem AFAIU. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Products Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread John Coggeshall
goto++ On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 19:27 -0500, George Schlossnagle wrote: me 3. goto is good. Wez Furlong wrote: me also On 11/27/05, Edin Kadribasic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ilia Alshanetsky wrote: If it comes down to count of +1/-1 about this feature, I am +1 for

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Stanislav, Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:10:55 PM, you wrote: MB'Config' or 'Setup' or alike then. But if i'd do that i'd be missing MBfeatures like static classes the php workaround would be 'abstract MBfinal class'. Only: Why should it be final? Extending it won't do any problem

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
MBIf it is not final you could derive the config class and then MBinstanciate it. Static classes which nicely fit into configuration MBstuff can never be instanciated. I see you point, though I don't see any disaster if someone derives and instantiates config class either. -- Stanislav

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Hi Dmitry, Can you send/post your patch? I'm especially interested in seeing what you did in zend_language_parser.y. Thanks. Regards, Jessie Dmitry Stogov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Marcus, It worked. :) Even with nested classes. However it didn't care

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Marcus, In my patch, you can define the class as private inside the namespace, so it could only be derived by classes inside the same namespace (using/instantiating outside will trigger an error). This might solve your problem. Regards, Jessie Marcus Boerger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Dmitry, featurismus: namespaces in namespaces *and* constants. But as i said even without conflicts it causes trouble in your brain. Since the syntax would not clearly differenciate the two. regards marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:10:04 PM, you wrote: Hi Marcus, It worked. :)

Re: [PHP-DEV] ?xml tags (was PDM Meeting Notes)

2005-11-28 Thread Ron Korving
me too, i've asked for this before but i remember it being laughed away... ron Marcus Boerger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Bastian, id like to see '?php=' too. marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:56:56 AM, you wrote: What concerns me most is that

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Jessie, yes and no. During 5.0 development i had private and protected inheritance already and we voted against them. So i think we would vote against private classes in namespaces as well. regards marcus Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:19:32 PM, you wrote: Marcus, In my patch, you can

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Dmitry Stogov
PHP syntax doesn't allow usage of _CLASS_NAME_ and _CONSTANT_ in the same language context. So, about what conflict are you talking? $a = new A::B::C; - class $a = A::B::C; - constant What is the difference with current PHP code? $a = new C; $a = C; Dmitry. -Original Message-

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Bob Silva
Just as easy namespace Foo { class Foo { const XYZ = 42; } class Bar { const = Foo::XYZ; //... } class Baz { const = Foo::XYZ; //... } } -Original Message- From: Marcus Boerger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere)

2005-11-28 Thread Bart de Boer
I thought that was the whole point of namespaces. That you can include stuff without worries that things will conflict: namespace name1 { define(CONSTANT, Hello world.); } namespace name2 { define(CONSTANT, Hello mars.); } Would produce seporate constants because they're defined in

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere)

2005-11-28 Thread Sara Golemon
I thought that was the whole point of namespaces. That you can include stuff without worries that things will conflict: namespace name1 { define(CONSTANT, Hello world.); } namespace name2 { define(CONSTANT, Hello mars.); } Would produce seporate constants because they're defined

Re: [PHP-DEV] Namespaces: Technical proposal

2005-11-28 Thread David Zülke
Cool. If that won't work, I'd rather have ::: over \, please ;) - David Am 28.11.2005 um 22:52 schrieb Oliver Grätz: Hi folks! I had some PM discussions about the (presumably premature) death of : as the namespace symbol. Most people liked this, some liked :: (which will definetely NOT

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Bob Silva
Can someone explain why you wouldn't want private and/or protected classes within a namespace? I imagine it would be due to problems with implementation... thanks for an explanation. Bob -Original Message- From: Marcus Boerger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005

[PHP-DEV] Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
All, After seeing Dmitry's patch, all he is allowing inside a module are import statements and classes. So, the question is, can we scrap both namespace constants and namespace functions and just stay with classes (as was agreed on several months ago, Andi himself agreeing to it)? This would

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Bob, It can't be an implementation issue, as this is already working in my patch (in fact, one of the test cases tests this). Regards, Jessie Bob Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Can someone explain why you wouldn't want private and/or protected classes

[PHP-DEV] CVS Account Request: meaton

2005-11-28 Thread Michael Eaton
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Markus Fischer
Marcus Boerger wrote: Hello Stanislav, Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:10:55 PM, you wrote: Why should it be final? Extending it won't do any problem AFAIU. If it is not final you could derive the config class and then instanciate it. Static classes which nicely fit into configuration stuff can

[PHP-DEV] Re: Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Sara Golemon
So, the question is, can we scrap both namespace constants and namespace functions and just stay with classes (as was agreed on several months ago, Andi himself agreeing to it)? This would make the patch smaller, simpler, AND would allow me to reuse the :: operator (and there would be no

[PHP-DEV] Namespaces: Technical proposal

2005-11-28 Thread Oliver Grätz
Hi folks! I had some PM discussions about the (presumably premature) death of : as the namespace symbol. Most people liked this, some liked :: (which will definetely NOT work) and then the opinion was very split with a lot of people saying OK, if it has to be to :::. Some folks even resigned and

Re: [PHP-DEV] Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Jessie, i already showed that dropping constants in namespaces leeds to static classes or private classes. So we are just shifting here. Instead of doing work that is worth nothing you should simply try to come up with a working patch using a working separator which can clearly only be \.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Markus, Monday, November 28, 2005, 11:22:03 PM, you wrote: Marcus Boerger wrote: Hello Stanislav, Monday, November 28, 2005, 9:10:55 PM, you wrote: Why should it be final? Extending it won't do any problem AFAIU. If it is not final you could derive the config class and then

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Bob, there is no technical reason against this. Bbtw there is no technical reason against \ either. Infact \ is the only seperator symbol that doesn't come along with technical problems that leed to conflicts or restrictions or confusion or more of those. Apart from that last time we

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Jason Garber
Hello Sara, Please explain what the difference is between nested classes, and this type of namespacing? If you scrapped namespace constants and functions, then all we have left is classes. If it was looked at as nested classes, then we get all the functionality with all the simplicity

[PHP-DEV] Re: Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Oliver Grätz
Jessie Hernandez schrieb: I think this is the best solution thus far. If any one of you still feels a need for constants/functions, PLEASE show me a _valid_ example that cannot be accomplished by just simply putting the constant/function inside a class in the namespace. No complaints from

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Jessie Hernandez
Hello Marcus, \ doesn't come along with confusion? Please, it's non-intuitive and looks like an escaped identifier or a Windows path. I think there are only two people who want \, you and someone else that I can't remember now. ::: works and it's understandable, the only bad thing is it's

[PHP-DEV] Re: Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Bart de Boer
I personally never use constants anyway. But at least functions and variables should work with namespaces: namespace name1 { $var = 3; function func(); } From a language perspective those should exist only in that namespace. I also think '\' as a seporator is nice. It has this nice

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Bart de Boer
Have a fresh look :) name1:::name2:::class::func(); name1::name2::class::func(); name1\name2\class::func(); I think there are way too many dots with ':::'. Looking at this example I must say '\' looks cleanest. And it's the most intuitive since namespaces are sort of like directories

[PHP-DEV] Namespace poll: Presumably final numbers

2005-11-28 Thread Oliver Grätz
Hi *! I have tried to interpret the incoming statements from the last days into one table. Sometimes it wasn't clear if some symbol was jst a suggestions or if th poster liked, sometimes it wasn't clear if it meant +1 or +2. Some suggestions like ~ came in very late and didn't get a chance. So

Re: [PHP-DEV] Namespace poll: Presumably final numbers

2005-11-28 Thread Marcus Boerger
Hello Oliver, too bad i wasn't counted but hey that's statistics and that's how they work :-) Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 12:40:44 AM, you wrote: Presumably Final Update: Namespace Operators

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps out there)

2005-11-28 Thread Bob Silva
No one answered my original email to create a design document, so I will do it anyways and see what happens, if anything maybe I get a better understanding and follow your advice to create my own patch since neither existing patch looks fine to me (and it appears to core developers as well) in its

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Basic Namespace Requirements

2005-11-28 Thread Sebastian Bergmann
Sara Golemon schrieb: All the added functionality of namespaces without all the baggage. +1 -- Sebastian Bergmann http://www.sebastian-bergmann.de/ GnuPG Key: 0xB85B5D69 / 27A7 2B14 09E4 98CD 6277 0E5B 6867 C514 B85B 5D69 -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Labeled Breaks (not the G-word)

2005-11-28 Thread Lukas Smith
Stanislav Malyshev wrote: MBcool argument: as long as there are worse features we can add anything? :-)) No, as long as the feature has high abuse potential (hint: goto does) it is better not to add it. Of course, it's not always possible, some features are vital even if dangerous. But goto

[PHP-DEV] Re: Namespaces: Technical proposal

2005-11-28 Thread Lukas Smith
Oliver Grätz wrote: one absolutely needs to use namespaces inside the ternary. As such cases will be pretty rare, this is no big drawback. The good thing: no whitespace magic is needed! so you replace the need for whitespace magic with the need for parentheses? you do notice you are running

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