Re: [IntSci] Transformative change (rply to Wendy)
dear Wendy, dear all(*)! Has anyone had success with ways to work within complex projects that can open up fixed positions and enable transformative change? We could start by agreeing that any effective intervention must be time and place based, with the process and actions being chosen by those involved and affected. One phenomena is complex when it can not be assessed from one perspective alone but different perspectives are present; the problem is that these are incommensurable in scope (integral domains of the observed phenomena) and in scales (micro/meso/macro assessment). Micro scale describes reality, macro scale describes the system main characteristics, while meso perspective connects micro and macro in an un-exclusive way (more on this, meso-matrical approach can be found here, http://ssrn.com/abstract=1122723, work in progress, comments welcome; two practical application: twice for the purpose of the strategic impact assessment of sustainable development (DG-Region) and territorial cohesion (ESPON); the same meso-matrical approach has been experimentally applied to derive a procedure and typology for synthesis of anti-systemic movements with the matrical organisation of 'social forums' (paper submitted). Back to your question - one of the important fixed positions is mesoscopic origin for the assessment of complex social phenomena; does it make any sense to you? Concerning dilemma on transformative and other types of change - do you propose that when transformative change takes place, the day after is irreversibly different then the day before? If so, I think that a concept of 'emergence' (behaviour, processes; see post by Elizabeth King) and in particular 'strong emergence' (Bar-Yam, New England Complex Systems Institute) clarifies a lot; I would be happy to provide sources. sonce, bojan (*)(this is my first post, cv details can be found in the paper) -- Od: [EMAIL PROTECTED] v imenu Gregory, Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poslano: 17. september 2008 3:59 Za: IntSci@learningforsustainability.net Zadeva: [IntSci] Transformative change Hi all, I've been corresponding with Val Brown about an issue we have both been grappling with and we have a question (well, two really!) that we would like to ask of the IntSci group: Has anyone had success with ways to work within complex projects that can open up fixed positions and enable transformative change? We would like to start a dialogue on ways and means to effect transformative change. We could start by agreeing that any effective intervention must be time and place based, with the process and actions being chosen by those involved and affected. What we are looking for is contributions to the set of processes already in use which are structured and disciplined - i.e., they have already been trialled in a number of contexts and been found to be useful in helping people explore the contexts and consequences of the situations they are trying to deal with. (And here's the second question ;-)): Would it be useful to others in the mailing list if we get to hear about some examples of how different people have used different processes for exploring and re-framing issues and going on achieve transformative action? Thanks, Wendy ___ IntSci mailing list IntSci@learningforsustainability.net http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/mailman/listinfo/intsci_learningforsustainability.net
Re: [IntSci] Transformative change
Someone commented about the transformative in front of change I erased the message too quickly. If I gain weight, I am changed, but not transformed. One can vaccinate all the children in a community change the child mortality, but the community is not transformed in such a way that the change is sustainable (Bill Gates will have to come every generation vaccinate again because dependence has been created). So yes, the adjective is meaningful. David Waltner-Toews Department of Population Medicine University of Guelph http://www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/personal/ecosys Veterinarians without Borders/ Vétérinaires sans Frontières - Canada www.vwb-vsf.ca Network for Ecosystem Sustainability and Health www.nesh.ca Tel: 519-824-4120 ext 54745 Cell: 519-546-3204 - Original Message - From: Wendy Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: IntSci@learningforsustainability.net Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:59:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [IntSci] Transformative change Hi all, I've been corresponding with Val Brown about an issue we have both been grappling with and we have a question (well, two really!) that we would like to ask of the IntSci group: Has anyone had success with ways to work within complex projects that can open up fixed positions and enable transformative change? We would like to start a dialogue on ways and means to effect transformative change. We could start by agreeing that any effective intervention must be time and place based, with the process and actions being chosen by those involved and affected. What we are looking for is contributions to the set of processes already in use which are structured and disciplined - i.e., they have already been trialled in a number of contexts and been found to be useful in helping people explore the contexts and consequences of the situations they are trying to deal with. (And here's the second question ;-)): Would it be useful to others in the mailing list if we get to hear about some examples of how different people have used different processes for exploring and re-framing issues and going on achieve transformative action? Thanks, Wendy P Think before you print This e-mail transmission and any attachments that accompany it may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it was intended to be addressed. If you have received this e-mail by mistake, or you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use or retention of this communication or its substance is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately reply to the author via e-mail that you received this message by mistake and also permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and any attachments from your computer. Thank you. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/pipermail/intsci_learningforsustainability.net/attachments/20080917/95cb471e/attachment.html ___ IntSci mailing list IntSci@learningforsustainability.net http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/mailman/listinfo/intsci_learningforsustainability.net ___ IntSci mailing list IntSci@learningforsustainability.net http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/mailman/listinfo/intsci_learningforsustainability.net
Re: [IntSci] Transformative change
Wendy Thanks for starting this off and to James for challenging us straight off. James I think 'change' needs an adjective, or it's too total a word to apply in practice. Change can be fast or slow; incremental or total; personal or organisational; transactional (internal to the system) or transformational (changing the system). Words are funny things. The idea of feasible change speaks oddly to me - feasible to whom and with respect to what?- unfeasible change would imply impossibililty of change, and I can't think of anything that couldn't change under some circumstances. Even the sun mightn't rise if there was a galaxy disturbance? But back to Wendy's question: I work with transformational social learning and collective thinking, and happy to share any of that. Wendy what insights have you found so far? Valerie 1. Transformative change (Gregory, Wendy) 2. Re: Transformative change (James Baines) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Gregory, Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IntSci@learningforsustainability.net Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:59:11 +1200 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [IntSci] Transformative change Message: 1 Hi all, I've been corresponding with Val Brown about an issue we have both been grappling with and we have a question (well, two really!) that we would like to ask of the IntSci group: Has anyone had success with ways to work within complex projects that can open up fixed positions and enable transformative change? We would like to start a dialogue on ways and means to effect transformative change. We could start by agreeing that any effective intervention must be time and place based, with the process and actions being chosen by those involved and affected. What we are looking for is contributions to the set of processes already in use which are structured and disciplined - i.e., they have already been trialled in a number of contexts and been found to be useful in helping people explore the contexts and consequences of the situations they are trying to deal with. (And here's the second question ;-)): Would it be useful to others in the mailing list if we get to hear about some examples of how different people have used different processes for exploring and re-framing issues and going on achieve transformative action? Thanks, Wendy P Think before you print This e-mail transmission and any attachments that accompany it may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it was intended to be addressed. If you have received this e-mail by mistake, or you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use or retention of this communication or its substance is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately reply to the author via e-mail that you received this message by mistake and also permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and any attachments from your computer. Thank you. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/pipermail/intsci_learningforsustainability.net/attachments/20080917/95cb471e/attachment.html From: James Baines [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory, Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED], IntSci@learningforsustainability.net References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] nz Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:17:25 +1200 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Subject: Re: [IntSci] Transformative change Message: 2 I may be new to this - but one small point I would have thought that the qualifier transformative hardly adds anything to the concept of change. Are you referring to a particular type of change when you use this terminology? or is this merely jargon? by contrast, I am reminded of the Soft Systems terminology feasible change where the qualifier (feasible) does seem to add something meaningful. cheers James At 01:59 p.m. 17/09/2008, Gregory, Wendy wrote: Hi all, I've been corresponding with Val Brown about an issue we have both been grappling with and we have a question (well, two really!) that we would like to ask of the IntSci group: Has anyone had success with ways to work within complex projects that can open up fixed positions and enable transformative change? We would like to start a dialogue on ways and means to effect transformative change. We could start by agreeing that any effective intervention must be time and place based, with the process and actions being chosen by those involved and affected. What we are looking for is contributions to the set of processes already in use which are structured and disciplined - i.e
Re: [IntSci] Transformative change
I may be new to this - but one small point I would have thought that the qualifier transformative hardly adds anything to the concept of change. Are you referring to a particular type of change when you use this terminology? or is this merely jargon? by contrast, I am reminded of the Soft Systems terminology feasible change where the qualifier (feasible) does seem to add something meaningful. cheers James At 01:59 p.m. 17/09/2008, Gregory, Wendy wrote: Hi all, I've been corresponding with Val Brown about an issue we have both been grappling with and we have a question (well, two really!) that we would like to ask of the IntSci group: Has anyone had success with ways to work within complex projects that can open up fixed positions and enable transformative change? We would like to start a dialogue on ways and means to effect transformative change. We could start by agreeing that any effective intervention must be time and place based, with the process and actions being chosen by those involved and affected. What we are looking for is contributions to the set of processes already in use which are structured and disciplined - i.e., they have already been trialled in a number of contexts and been found to be useful in helping people explore the contexts and consequences of the situations they are trying to deal with. (And here's the second question ;-)): Would it be useful to others in the mailing list if we get to hear about some examples of how different people have used different processes for exploring and re-framing issues and going on achieve transformative action? Thanks, Wendy P Think before you print This e-mail transmission and any attachments that accompany it may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it was intended to be addressed. If you have received this e-mail by mistake, or you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use or retention of this communication or its substance is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately reply to the author via e-mail that you received this message by mistake and also permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and any attachments from your computer. Thank you. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/pipermail/intsci_learningforsustainability.net/attachments/20080917/95cb471e/attachment.html ___ IntSci mailing list IntSci@learningforsustainability.net http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/mailman/listinfo/intsci_learningforsustainability.net __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3447 (20080916) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ** James Baines Taylor Baines Associates PO Box 8620Phone/fax: 64 3 3433884 CHRISTCHURCH e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Zealandhttp://www.tba.co.nz ** ___ IntSci mailing list IntSci@learningforsustainability.net http://mail.learningforsustainability.net/mailman/listinfo/intsci_learningforsustainability.net
