[IPsec] Minutes from the IPsecME meeting in Bangkok IETF 103

2018-11-07 Thread Tero Kivinen
Thanks for minutes takers for taking the minutes in the etherpad. I cleaned them up bit, and posted them to the meetings materials page: -- IETF 103 IPsecME WG meeting in Bangkok Wednesday, November 7, 2018 13:50-15:20

Re: [IPsec] Some comments on draft-tjhai-ipsecme-hybrid-qske-ikev2-02

2018-11-04 Thread Tero Kivinen
Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) writes: > > That implementation is broken, and needs to be fixed. > > I can easily see a manufacturer claiming "my implementation has been > working without a problem for 13 years; why does it need to be > fixed?" And the answer will be: Because it is broken, and it is

Re: [IPsec] Some comments on draft-tjhai-ipsecme-hybrid-qske-ikev2-02

2018-10-31 Thread Tero Kivinen
Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) writes: > My issue with this general idea is backwards compatibility; if we > issue a transform of type 5 to an old IKEv2 system, it may reject > the entire exchange with an "unrecognized transform type" error (and > yes, there are real systems that behave this way). That

[IPsec] Agenda for Bangkok meeting

2018-10-26 Thread Tero Kivinen
We seem to have very short meeting, or at least we do not have that much things we want to discuss in next meeting in Bangkok. I have only received 2 agenda items, and one comment that we should discuss IPsec Compression mode for ESP (EHC) in the meeting. I.e., the current agenda for IPsecME

[IPsec] Finished: Call for WG Adoptation for draft-boucadair-ipsecme-ipv6-ipv4-codes

2018-10-22 Thread Tero Kivinen
This call for adoptation has now finished, and we did got several people supporting adopting this document as WG base document. Several of those people also said that this is good baseline, but said we need to work on the actual solution bit more, i.e., how many notifies are needed and what is the

[IPsec] Call for presentations in Bangkok IPsecME meeting

2018-10-12 Thread Tero Kivinen
Bangkok meeting will be starting in few weeks. If you would like to present anything in the IPsecME meeting (Wednesday afternoon I session 13:50-15:20 2018-11-07), please send request to us at before end of next week (i.e., before 2018-10-21). -- kivi...@iki.fi

[IPsec] Call for WG Adoptation for draft-boucadair-ipsecme-ipv6-ipv4-codes

2018-10-12 Thread Tero Kivinen
Our new charter has been approved and that includes item: RFC7296 defines a generic notification code that is related to a failure to handle an internal address failure. That code does not explicitly allow an initiator to determine why a given address family is not assigned, nor

Re: [IPsec] The LWIG WG has placed draft-mglt-lwig-minimal-esp in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"

2018-08-31 Thread Tero Kivinen
Heinrich Singh writes: > Text saying that you would loose some privacy by using fixed number > of SPI does not absolve your responsibility. It should not recommend > that. There is no requirement for SPI to be random and originally it was written that way so implementations can use whatever

Re: [IPsec] RFC7296 (IKEv2) IKE SA creation question

2018-08-23 Thread Tero Kivinen
Ivo Sedlacek writes: > RFC7296 states: > > > >>The first two exchanges of messages >establishing an IKE SA are called the IKE_SA_INIT exchange and the >IKE_AUTH exchange<<; subsequent IKE exchanges are called either >CREATE_CHILD_SA exchanges or INFORMATIONAL

Re: [IPsec] Fwd: [Security] Cisco Patches Its Operating Systems Against New IKE Crypto Attack

2018-08-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Hugo Krawczyk writes: > Why aren't these IKEv1 implementation defending against Bleichenbacher by > hiding the nature of error (decryption error or authentication error) like > what TLS 1.2 does [1]? Is this option documented in any of the IPsec/IKE > documents? Is there a reason why it would not

Re: [IPsec] Fwd: [Security] Cisco Patches Its Operating Systems Against New IKE Crypto Attack

2018-08-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > I agree. I got limited information before publication (only about the > weak PSK parts, not the RSA parts) and also voiced concerns about their > IKEv2 claims. > > While in IKEv1 you have an oracle when the message can be decrypted only > with the right PSK, in IKEv2 there

Re: [IPsec] Fwd: [Security] Cisco Patches Its Operating Systems Against New IKE Crypto Attack

2018-08-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > after reading the paper I still don’t understand why authors > mentioned IKEv2 there. Of course they mention, just to get more exposure... > Their example attack in Section 4.4 on (allegedly) IKEv2 in fact > uses secondary responder supporting IKEv1 Public Key Encryption

[IPsec] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7634 (5441)

2018-07-27 Thread Tero Kivinen
RFC Errata System writes: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7634, > "ChaCha20, Poly1305, and Their Use in the Internet Key Exchange Protocol > (IKE) and IPsec". > > -- > You may review the report below and at: >

Re: [IPsec] Mutual authnull to mutual authenticated upgrade

2018-07-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > >> 2) Are we correct with our assumption that you either end up on mutual > >> authnull or with mutual authentication, or do people believe there > >> is a use case for asymmetric authentication as well, in which case > >> the responder could also send AUTH plus

Re: [IPsec] IPsecME@IETF102 Montreal meeting minutes

2018-07-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) writes: > "I put it in there because we reused an existing key update > mechanism, and as that mechanism used nonces, we included them" Updated to: Valery: I like it. You outlined that you send Nonce payload for each KE exchange, and not reuse one from

[IPsec] Mutual authnull to mutual authenticated upgrade

2018-07-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > So we have the following possibilities: > > 1) authby=authnull -> authby=authnull > 2) authby=authnull,cert -> authby=authnull > 3) authby=authnull,cert -> authby=authnull,cert (must yield real > authentication) > 4) authby=authnull -> authby=authnull,cert Actually all

Re: [IPsec] IPsecME@IETF102 Montreal meeting minutes

2018-07-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > No, I asked why each new KE in IKE_AUX incorporates its own nonce, instead > of re-using > nonces from IKE_SA_INIT. I have no problem with this if it is needed > for security, my question was driven by curiosity. I.e., so this would be (more?) correct:

Re: [IPsec] IPsecME@IETF102 Montreal meeting minutes

2018-07-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2018, Tero Kivinen wrote: > > > Thanks for Brian Weis taking minutes from the IPsecME WG meeting. I > > did some editing and posted them on the datatracker: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/minutes-102-ipsecme

Re: [IPsec] Modp-12288 and Modp-16384

2018-07-18 Thread Tero Kivinen
Yoav Nir writes: > Since my message got lost in the overtime, I’ll say it again here. Btw, I copied your comment from jabber to the minutes, as it should have been releayed, but as our jabber relay was on the microphone, it got skipped... -- kivi...@iki.fi

[IPsec] IPsecME@IETF102 Montreal meeting mnutes

2018-07-18 Thread Tero Kivinen
Thanks for Brian Weis taking minutes from the IPsecME WG meeting. I did some editing and posted them on the datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/minutes-102-ipsecme-00 If you find something that needs to be fixed send me email (I did add Yoav's comments that did not get

Re: [IPsec] Modp-12288 and Modp-16384

2018-07-18 Thread Tero Kivinen
Scott Fluhrer \(sfluhrer\) writes: > > That we do not know until we know what those quantum computers can > > really do... I have not seen anybody saying how many qbits you need to > > break MODP-2048. > > It's about twice as many as you need to factor a 2048 bit composite; > so about 4k

Re: [IPsec] Modp-12288 and Modp-16384

2018-07-17 Thread Tero Kivinen
Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) writes: > If the requirement for AES-256 is to handle the scenario "someone > gets a quantum computer", then in that scenario, there is no > realistic DH group size that is secure. That we do not know until we know what those quantum computers can really do... I have not

Re: [IPsec] Modp-12288 and Modp-16384

2018-07-17 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > my concern is that these MODP groups will have public keys of 1.5-2 > Kb in size, so it can make using them problematic in real world due > to fragmentation issues... In most of those cases the uses are not really road warriors or similar setups, but more in a line of SGW

[IPsec] How about simplified IKE? RE: IPsec Flow Protection @I2NSF

2018-07-17 Thread Tero Kivinen
Linda Dunbar writes: > There are two cases proposed by SDN controlled IPsec Flow Protection: > > - Case 1 is SDN controller only sending down the IPsec configuration > attributes to End points, and End Points supports the IKEs and SA > maintenance. > > - Case 2 is end points not supporting

[IPsec] Modp-12288 and Modp-16384

2018-07-17 Thread Tero Kivinen
When we greated RFC3526 [1] in 2003 we included 1536, 2048, 3072, 4096, 6144, and 8192 bit modp groups. I did also create 12288 and 16384 bit modp groups [2], but we did not include those as we assumed they would be too slow for normal use. Now sometimes there is requirement to align all security

[IPsec] Agenda updated, and most slides uploaded

2018-07-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
I have now updated the IPsecME agenda for Monreal, and all but one of the slides have been uploaded. -- IETF 102 IPsecME WG meeting in Montreal Wednesday, July 18, 2018 15:20-16:50 SAint-Paul/Sainte-Catherine - Agenda bashing,

[IPsec] Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: (with COMMENT)

2018-07-12 Thread Tero Kivinen
Mirja Kühlewind writes: > Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory

[IPsec] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: (with COMMENT)

2018-07-12 Thread Tero Kivinen
I seem to have missed this email somehow. Alissa Cooper writes: > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: No Objection > > -- > COMMENT: >

[IPsec] Initial agenda posted for Montreal

2018-07-10 Thread Tero Kivinen
Here is initial agenda for the Montreal. I would like to get everybody who has any presentations to send the presentations to me before Sunday, so I can upload them to meeting materials page well before the meeting on Wednesday. Also if someone else still wants to have some items on the agenda

[IPsec] Agenda items for Montreal IPsecME meetings

2018-07-07 Thread Tero Kivinen
Send us items you want to talk in Montreal IPsecME WG meeting. I will make the agenda early next week. -- kivi...@iki.fi ___ IPsec mailing list IPsec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

Re: [IPsec] draft-pauly-ipsecme-split-dns

2018-06-20 Thread Tero Kivinen
Nico Williams writes: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 11:20:31PM +0300, Tero Kivinen wrote: > > Reading this thread now, I have few comments. > > > > [...] > > > > So I think the feature that we can use TLSA records in the split-dns > > is very impor

Re: [IPsec] draft-pauly-ipsecme-split-dns

2018-06-20 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > You almost certainly will need to install some local webpki trust anchor > to make use of your internal TLS servers reachable via the IPsec VPN. > > For example, to reach any of our internal redhat servers over HTTPS, I > need to install a redhat internal CA into my

[IPsec] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: (with COMMENT)

2018-06-07 Thread Tero Kivinen
Suresh Krishnan writes: > Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory

[IPsec] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on charter-ietf-ipsecme-11-01: (with COMMENT)

2018-06-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
Spencer Dawkins writes: > -- > COMMENT: > -- > > I don't object to this proposed charter going for internal review, but do have > one question. > > When looking

Re: [IPsec] PLMTUD probes for IPsec

2018-05-10 Thread Tero Kivinen
Shibu writes: > With SDWAN use cases (wherein paths could be orchestrated based on proto, > port, QoS, App ID etc), would it be a precise  assumption to make? How would > we handle these cases when the paths are build for ESP and IKE differently? If the ESP and IKEv2 packates do not follow the

Re: [IPsec] Comments about draft-ietf-ipsecme-implicit-iv-02

2018-05-10 Thread Tero Kivinen
Daniel Migault writes: > another alternative could be: > > As the IV MUST NOT repeat for one SA when Counter-Mode ciphers are >    used, Implicit IV as described in this document MUST NOT be used in >    setups with the chance that the Sequence Number overlaps for one SA. >    Multicast as

Re: [IPsec] Labeled IPsec questions

2018-05-03 Thread Tero Kivinen
Michael Richardson writes: > > It has to be a traffic selector. > > It has to be a traffic selector so that it can be selected (so do labeled > IPsec SA), or not selected (do not do it). Any other mechanism > (notification) can not be unambiguously rejected by a responder. Not true.

Re: [IPsec] PLMTUD probes for IPsec

2018-04-13 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > Using IKE also has a disandvantage for for those implementations that > only support a window size of one. If those IKE messages are lost - > which is highly likely because we are trying out larger window sizes > until we find something that works - things get tricky (even

Re: [IPsec] PLMTUD probes for IPsec

2018-04-13 Thread Tero Kivinen
Ron Bonica writes: > In 99.9% of cases you are probably correct. If there is an ECMP > between the encrypting node and the decrypting node, all ECMPs have > the same PMTU. Is it 99.9%, or 99.%? > And because this is true in such a vast majority of cases, none of > us have seen a situation

Re: [IPsec] PLMTUD probes for IPsec

2018-04-13 Thread Tero Kivinen
Ron Bonica writes: > Hi Valery, > > I am thinking like this... > > - If we do nothing, tunnel performance is acceptable but > suboptimal. We can prevent blackholing by statically configuring > the tunnel MTU to a sufficiently low value. However, we cannot > take advantage of tunnels

Re: [IPsec] PLMTUD probes for IPsec

2018-04-10 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > Both good points. So, it appears that we have the following choices: > > > > - leverage IKE for exchanging probes and acks (But risk sending probes and > > acks over a different path than > > encrypted data) > > - send probes and acks in-band. Try UDP probes first. If

[IPsec] Comments about draft-ietf-ipsecme-implicit-iv-02

2018-04-06 Thread Tero Kivinen
While doing my IANA review on the document I found some small nits about it. Here are my comments to the document: -- Typo in abstract: This avoids sending the nonce itself, and savec in the case of AES-GCM, AES-CCM,

[IPsec] RFC8229 (IKE over TCP) and retransmissions

2018-04-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
[WG chair hat off] Valery Smyslov writes: > TCP provides reliable transport, so there is no need for application to > deal with retransmissions. Moreover, performing retransmissions by IKE > in case of TCP on congested networks could further increase congestion > and degrade

[IPsec] Minutes of the IETF #101 meeting posted

2018-04-04 Thread Tero Kivinen
Thanks for all the people writing minutes to the etherpad. Here is the minutes for the IETF #101 IPsecME meeting: -- IETF 101 IPsecME WG meeting in London Friday, March 23, 2018 11:50-13:20 Park Suite - Agenda bashing, Logistics

[IPsec] Question: Inconsistent statements about what the node shall do when receving ESP packets with unknown SPI.

2018-04-03 Thread Tero Kivinen
Pål Dammvik writes: > Think I have discovered a small inconsistency in RFC 7296 with > regards to the actions a node shall take if it received ESP packets > with an unknown SPI. Those cases are not exactly same. I.e., the section 1.5 explictly talks about receiving ESP packet with unknown SPI.

Re: [IPsec] Clarification on my comments during the WG about possible KE payloads > 64k

2018-03-26 Thread Tero Kivinen
Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar writes: > From this point, I think that if the requirements (>64k) of those > schemes need to be taken into account, then those should be taken > into account now. I think the best way to make them work is to keep the individual payload length less than 64k, but QSKE (or

[IPsec] Final agenda, and slides submitted for IETF 101 London

2018-03-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
The final agenda and all the slides have now been submitted to the datatracker meeting materials page. There might be updated versions of the slides later, but at least you should be able to check initial versions of them now. I would really like to people to read at least following drafts before

Re: [IPsec] Additional charter items 1/4: Responder MOBIKE

2018-03-12 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > No. The switch will be triggered immediately when the cluster / server > > sends MOBIKE update using the 2nd ip address and does NOT include the > > currently used IP address in the address list. If that message goes > > through the client will start switch immediately,

[IPsec] Preliminary agenda for IPsecME in IETF 101 in London

2018-03-07 Thread Tero Kivinen
Here is the preliminary agenda. If I missed any request for timeslot, send me email ASAP, so I will check if I can add it... We have quite a lot of presentations and it is possible we will not be able to cover all of them (i.e., the ones in the end might be dropped out). I would like to get all

Re: [IPsec] Additional charter items 1/4: Responder MOBIKE

2018-03-07 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > There is no timers in the RFC specified for any of these operations, > > all of them are implementation details. This is something that will > > NOT affect interoperability, but will affect how well your > > implementation works. If this is important matter for your > >

[IPsec] Summary of charter discussion

2018-03-04 Thread Tero Kivinen
There was very little discussion about the "ready" parts of the charter (one comment from Wouters, but no new text or explination why "mesh" is different than host-to-host. Additional items: Item 1 responder MOBIKE We had some discussion already on the list, and several people

[IPsec] Presentations for IETF 101 for IPsecME

2018-03-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
If you want to present something in the IETF 101, send your request for agenda slots to the us (WG chairs). We have already received two requests (from Valery and Scott), but if there is something else you think needs to be presented, please say so... I will try to put up the agenda for the

Re: [IPsec] Additional charter items 1/4: Responder MOBIKE

2018-02-20 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > The responder can simply do following describined in the RFC4555 > > section 3.6: > > > >There is one additional complication: when the responder wants to > >update the address set, the currently used addresses may no longer > >work. In this case, the

Re: [IPsec] Additional charter items 1/4: Responder MOBIKE

2018-02-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > 3. MOBIKE. In current MOBIKE only initial initiator can initiate change of IP > addresses. > If this problem is solved, then this is the best choice for load sharing > clusters. Mobike is symmetric in IKEv2 level. Either end can have multiple IP addresses and can

Re: [IPsec] Proposed charter text

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > On Fri, 16 Feb 2018, Tero Kivinen wrote: > > > The IPsec suite of protocols includes IKEv1 (RFC 2409 and associated > > RFCs, IKEv1 is now obsoleted), IKEv2 (RFC 7296), and the IPsec > > security architecture (RFC 4301). IPsec is widely deployed

Re: [IPsec] Additional charter items 4/4: Mitigating privacy concerns

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
Yoav Nir writes: > > The reason why we defined IKEv2 so that initiator provides identity > > first, was that if responder provides identity first, then attackers > > can make probe attacks and collect identities of the remote peers, > > even when the IPsec is not currently in use. I.e., like we

Re: [IPsec] Additional charter items 4/4: Mitigating privacy concerns

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
Yoav Nir writes: > > 2) The privacy of the initiator's identity in the presence of a man in > > the middle attacker is not protected. > > > >Today an attacker with full control of the network can receive the > >IDi/IDr sent by the initiator in the first AUTH packet. We should > >add

[IPsec] Additional charter items 4/4: Mitigating privacy concerns

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
This item does not have charter text yet, we do have text which explains what the problem is, but I think it requires some reformatting to fit as charter text. The problem description is: -- IKEv2 is currently vulnerable to the

[IPsec] Additional charter items 3/4: Labeled IPsec

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
This charter text was not ready during the IETF 100, we just had very short description about the item, and I think most of the people did not really understand it. The proposed charter text for this item is: -- Some systems

[IPsec] Additional charter items 2/4: Address Failure Errors

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
This item has draft (draft-boucadair-ipsecme-ipv6-ipv4-codes) which quite well the needs and why this is to done, and I think we do undestand the item itself, but the charter text was not covered in the IETF 100 meeting, so we did not get consensus call done for it. The proposed charter text is:

[IPsec] Additional charter items 1/4: Responder MOBIKE

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
This is items we did not manage to reach full consensus in the IETF 100 meeting. There were concerns and questions why this is needed and why it cannot be done with already existing methods (mostly redirect etc, or updating the address lists). The proposed charter text is

[IPsec] Proposed charter text

2018-02-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
Here is the current proposed charter text about the items we managed to agree in the IETF 100 meeting. I have left out the items we didn't manage to have consensus, and I will send another email after this to start discussion about them. If you have comments (or objections) adding these new items

Re: [IPsec] draft-tjhai-ipsecme-hybrid-qske-ikev2-01

2018-02-13 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Valery Smyslov wrote: > > >> This is one particular implementation peculiarity, there > >> will be others that behaves oddly. The point is, if we introduce a new > >> Transform Type, it is very likely that backward compatibility can no > >> longer be

Re: [IPsec] Candidate charter text is now in wiki

2018-02-07 Thread Tero Kivinen
mohamed.boucad...@orange.com writes: > I was naively expecting a formal call to assess the > interest/objections for each of the proposed items. Perhaps, I'm not > the only one in that case. That could have been another possibility, but as I was so busy between the last IETF and now, I didn't

[IPsec] Labeled IPsec for charter

2018-02-06 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > > Some systems support security labels (aka security context) as one of the > selectors of the SPD. This label needs to be part of the IKE negotiation > for the IPsec SA. non-standard implementations exist for IKEv1 (formerly > abusing IPSEC Security Association Attribute

Re: [IPsec] Candidate charter text is now in wiki

2018-02-06 Thread Tero Kivinen
mohamed.boucad...@orange.com writes: > It seems that you missed this text for the address failure codes (Nov 13): > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipsec/current/msg11724.html Yes, as I wanted to get some more discussion about it in the mailing list first. I have not seen any discussion

Re: [IPsec] Candidate charter text is now in wiki

2018-02-06 Thread Tero Kivinen
David Schinazi writes: > Here is proposed charter text for the "Mitigating privacy concerns" > section: As there has not been any support for this item in the mailing list I do not think we will be adding it in the charter this time. > IKEv2 is currently vulnerable to the two following privacy

[IPsec] Some comments to the draft-ietf-ipsecme-qr-ikev2-01.txt

2018-02-06 Thread Tero Kivinen
While approving the IANA expert request for this document I noticed some things that might require some fixes to the draft: -- In section 1.1 (which will be removed) there is typo in PPK_SUUPORT. -- In section 3 it would be better to use the same format than what is used in the RFC7296 when

[IPsec] Comments to the draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns-04.txt

2018-02-06 Thread Tero Kivinen
While approving the IANA allocations I re-read the document again, and I have some more comments that might make the document more understandable. -- In section 4.1 there is example of example.com, but it would be better to put quotes around it it, i.e., change A Fully Qualified Domain

Re: [IPsec] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7296 (5247)

2018-02-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
Yoav Nir writes: > I don’t see anything wrong with the suggestion (it’s just adding “to indicate > NONE” in the last > sentence). However: I think it is pointless change, and there is no need to give name for the number we use when we do not have protocol identifier, when it is used in exactly

Re: [IPsec] WG Last Call comments on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns

2018-01-22 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > On Mon, 22 Jan 2018, Tero Kivinen wrote: > > [ added i...@ietf.org to get a general discussion on this, as it seems > this is a procedural issue not specific to the WG ] You are trying to follow wrong procedure. There is NO early allocations for expert revie

Re: [IPsec] WG Last Call comments on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns

2018-01-22 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > On Mon, 22 Jan 2018, Paul Hoffman wrote: > > > Greetings. This document is still listed as in WG Last Call, although I > > haven't seen anything in the archive about that Last Call closing. > > Yeah, the WGLC ended Nov 9. I have pinged the chairs a few times > already,

[IPsec] inconsistent RFC obsoletes/obsoleted reference

2017-12-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > See: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7321 > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8221 See https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7321/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8221/ and you can see that the information is already correct. > 8221 states properly: > >

Re: [IPsec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipsecme-implicit-iv-00.txt

2017-12-09 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, internet-dra...@ietf.org wrote: > > > Subject: [IPsec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipsecme-implicit-iv-00.txt > > This draft was also submitted without marking it as replacing > draft-mglt-ipsecme-implicit-iv. This means there is no diff > available to read

[IPsec] Key rollover and IDr payload(s)

2017-11-30 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > We could use the IDr payload in IKE_AUTH for that, using an ID_KEY_ID > type. But we would also really like to use the IDr payload on the > initiator to convey to the responder which FQDN we are expecting, so a > responder could use a different key for each FQDN it is

[IPsec] Candidate charter text is now in wiki

2017-11-16 Thread Tero Kivinen
I put the candidate charter text to the wiki. This includes the changes in the first two paragraphs, removes items already done, and list of new items. I have not yet added the items that came too late to have charter text bashed in the meeting to the wiki. For those items which do not have text

Re: [IPsec] Signature algorithm negotiation (was Re: Agenda for IETF 100)

2017-11-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > Why would you make multiple encodings formats for the same algorithm? > > And if so why should we allow that in IPsec. We do not allow prehashed > > formats of the Ed25519 and Ed448 because we do not want to have > > multiple formats for the same thing. > > If tomorrow

Re: [IPsec] Signature algorithm negotiation (was Re: Agenda for IETF 100)

2017-11-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > If I remember right on discussion about the different elliptic curve > > algorithms, the situation was same there, i.e., even if you could use > > the same key for different algorithms, it is considered bad idea... > > We are not talking about different algorithms.

Re: [IPsec] Signature algorithm negotiation (was Re: Agenda for IETF 100)

2017-11-13 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > > This is the reason why the RFC7427 only negotiates the hash algorithm, > > and the section 5 of the RFC 7427 gives several ways of solving this > > issue without doing protocol changes. > > No, section 5 is about a different problem: how to select > a proper

Re: [IPsec] Agenda for IETF 100

2017-11-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > Hi Tero, > > how about: > > RFC7427 allows peers to indicate hash algorithms they support, thus > eliminating ambiguity in selecting a hash function for digital signature > authentication. However, recent advances in cryptography lead to > a situation when some

Re: [IPsec] Charter items

2017-11-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > How about the followingy last sentence: > > The solution will allow post quantum key exchange to be > performed in parallel with (or instead of) the existing Diffie-Hellman key > exchange. Updated to match to that. -- kivi...@iki.fi

[IPsec] Charter items

2017-11-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
I have now received following items for consideration for charter (includes old items not finished in the current charter): -- IKEv1 using shared secret authentication was partially resistant to quantum computers. IKEv2 removed

[IPsec] Agenda for IETF 100

2017-11-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
Sahana Prasad writes: > We could consider adding this item to the working charter : > > Explicitly negotiating different RSA versions (Specific case) : If you want it to be considered as charter item, please provide text suitable for charter. -- kivi...@iki.fi

[IPsec] WGLC on draft-mglt-ipsecme-implicit-iv-04

2017-10-27 Thread Tero Kivinen
Waltermire, David A. (Fed) writes: > This message starts a Working Group Last Call (WGLC) for > draft-mglt-ipsecme-implicit-iv-04. > > The version to be reviewed can be found here: > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-mglt-ipsecme-implicit-iv-04.txt. > > Please send your comments, questions, and

[IPsec] Agenda for IETF 100

2017-10-26 Thread Tero Kivinen
We will be meeting at Monday morning 09:30-11:00 for 1.5 hours. Our main agenda item will be the rechartering text, i.e., our charter will expire by the end of year, and we have most of our chartered work already completed, or almost finished, so we need to decide what new items (if any) we take

Re: [IPsec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipsecme-qr-ikev2-00.txt

2017-10-23 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > Did it not get marked as replacing the fluhrer draft ? Now there is > no diff available. Can that still be fixed? Not automatically, and I was in progress of doing that, but it took me few minutes to find out how to do it properly... It should be marked as replacing it

Re: [IPsec] IANA IKEv2 parameters, encryption type=17

2017-10-02 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > > for 8, 12, 16 octet versions came to be 18, 19, and 20, and the number > > 17 which was most likely allocated for the 4 octet ICV was marked as > > reserved. > > Except it is marked unassigned, not reserved. So one could use this > number in the future. I for sure have

[IPsec] IANA IKEv2 parameters, encryption type=17

2017-09-27 Thread Tero Kivinen
Michael Richardson writes: > Why did we skip > IKEv2_UNASSIGNED_17 = 17, > > for IKEv2 Encryption Transforms? > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ikev2-parameters/ikev2-parameters.xhtml#ikev2-parameters-5 The original draft-ietf-ipsec-ciph-aes-gcm [1] had four differnet ICV lengths: 4,

Re: [IPsec] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5282 (5109)

2017-09-12 Thread Tero Kivinen
Black, David writes: > Well, RFC 5282 actually prohibits the responder from selecting that > combination, but requiring separate proposals for combined-mode and normal > ciphers is a cleaner and simpler approach. Yes, and RFC5996 restricted that even more, saying that you need to use separate

Re: [IPsec] Proposed method to achieve quantum resistant IKEv2

2017-09-05 Thread Tero Kivinen
Bruckert, Leonie writes: > Additionally, it would be nice to also protect the identities i.e. > to make the AUTH exchange quantum resistant. Particularly with > regard to the PPK draft which doesn’t assure this. As we discussed earlier, some kind of pseudonym system might be better for this,

[IPsec] draft-fluhrer-qr-ikev2 AUTH issue

2017-08-17 Thread Tero Kivinen
Paul Wouters writes: > Received PPK_SUPPORT Have PPK PPK MandatoryAction > -- > Yes No *Standard IKE protocol > Yes Yes *Include

Re: [IPsec] Proposed method to achieve quantum resistant IKEv2

2017-08-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Michael Richardson writes: > I don't think we need to do this. > I think that unknown transform types will be ignored by compliant > implementations. Nope. It will ignore unknown transform IDs for each known transform type, but it MUST understand each transform type, and if it does not understand

Re: [IPsec] Proposed method to achieve quantum resistant IKEv2

2017-08-14 Thread Tero Kivinen
Daniel Van Geest writes: > 1) QS SA Negotiation > > When negotiating a QS SA, it’s not enough to negotiate QS key > agreement algorithm(s), one also has to ensure that the algorithms > selected by the other transform types are also QS. All of these kind of issues are really policy matters, thus

Re: [IPsec] Proposed method to achieve quantum resistant IKEv2

2017-08-09 Thread Tero Kivinen
Cen Jung Tjhai writes: >>And I think if the IKE_SA_INIT messages grow too large with QSKE, >>then it’s better to develop generic fragmentation mechanism for >>IKE_SA_INIT, rather than making it specific for fragmenting QSKE >>blobs. Generic mechanism would allow to reuse it in case we’ll have >>to

Re: [IPsec] Proposed method to achieve quantum resistant IKEv2

2017-08-09 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > It is not clear for me (and I raised this concern in Prague) why do > you use QSKE as an additional Key Exchange mechanism instead of > replacing DH KE with it? We’ve been being told by cryptographers > that conventional public key cryptography won’t provide security in >

[IPsec] Preliminary minutes of the IETF 99 IPsecME meeting

2017-07-21 Thread Tero Kivinen
Here are the minutes of the meeting (thanks Yaron), if you have fixes, additions etc to them send them to me. I will post these to the meeting materials next week. -- Minutes of the IETF 99 IPsecME WG meeting Prague 2017-07-21.

Re: [IPsec] [I2nsf] draft-abad-i2nsf-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection

2017-07-19 Thread Tero Kivinen
Rafa Marin-Lopez writes: > I.e. any TLA would love to get their hands on all the traffic keys in > one location, and then be able to decrypt any traffic going inside any > of the IPsec tunnels. > > If controller only has the PSKs or similar to do the authentication >

[IPsec] draft-abad-i2nsf-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection

2017-07-18 Thread Tero Kivinen
Valery Smyslov writes: > I'm very much concerned with the IKE-less option presented in the > draft. > > First, the Network Controller becomes a very attractive target for > attacks in this case, since an attacker, if attack is successful, > will gain all the keys for the whole system. And it is

[IPsec] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7296 (5056)

2017-06-30 Thread Tero Kivinen
RFC Errata System writes: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7296, > "Internet Key Exchange Protocol Version 2 (IKEv2)". > > -- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5056 > >

Re: [IPsec] Question about ipsecme-tcp-encaps

2017-05-18 Thread Tero Kivinen
Yoav Nir writes: > But since Tommy’s happy with tearing down the connection after one invalid > SPI, that solves the problem nicely. I do not think we want to do that. There are valid cases where we might get unknown SPIs, so tearing connection down after one of those is not good solution. > By

<    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   >