RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
yep, we need a projector. Sooo...how much is a projector? Oh, about $800. Hmm...we have no budget, so, "Hey Bill, could you donate $800 so we can buy a projector?" If the JUG hooks me up with another contract like my current one, I'll be happy to throw in a projector, too! :) I haven't mentioned it because I'm lazy but I suspect I could get us a room with projector and net via the UA CS department. Lol -- I'm starting to understand why the Tucson Computer Society folks might have been "silly" about wanting all folks who attend meetings to pay dues (even if they do give a preso). I believe TCS rents a building, owns a projector, has furniture, and presumably incurs other expenses too. Yes, the TCS does have a room, at E. Grant. It has chairs, a projector and, I believe, a net connection. You can see a tiny picture of in the top banners at http://aztcs.org/sigs/sigs.shtml. Affiliating with the TCS as a SIG, assuming they'd have us, would solve the meeting room problem, the dues-collection problem, and the budget-committee problem. Their dues are $45/yr, $25/yr for students. As a bonus, my cost for attending Developer's SIG (http://devsig.editme.com/) meetings would be slashed in half! :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
> org.tucson-jug.TimoIsBeingGeekyException > at gillman.duffy.ReadEmail (ReadEmail.java:57) at > gillman.duffy.StareIdlyWhileDrinkingCoffee > (StareIdlyWhileDrinkingCoffee.java:1044) > at gillman.duffy.MorningRouting (MorningRouting:32) ... 39 more Man, I feel so much -less- geeky now. ;-) > Yes, I have previously felt a little awkward realizing that > if I don't show the TJUG becomes an exciting hallway > experience. More than once I've been pulled in by conscience > alone (..."but Lifetime is running a Little House on the > Prarie marathon this Tuesday... *sigh*"). But what > alternatives do you have in mind? I think we might be able > to get a meeting room at the UA Library with little or no > effort - but I don't imagine we'd get a fancy overhead > projector. And think of that fabulous doorbell, Timo! What > would replace the fabulous doorbell? I have no alternatives in mind -- but it's something I think the group should work out before you come down with a fever, go on vacation, want to watch Laura Ingalls Wilder bale hay... or after 15 months of meetings, you decide, "uh, folks, I just honestly don't want to come to the meeting tonight, it's just Tim talking, and I'd rather pass." And if we discuss and say, "gee...we can find a meeting room...but no projector...hmm... do we 'need' a projector? Well, unless Nick is presenting and we can huddle around his gigangtic Powerbook screen...yep, we need a projector. Sooo...how much is a projector? Oh, about $800. Hmm...we have no budget, so, "Hey Bill, could you donate $800 so we can buy a projector?" Lol -- I'm starting to understand why the Tucson Computer Society folks might have been "silly" about wanting all folks who attend meetings to pay dues (even if they do give a preso). I believe TCS rents a building, owns a projector, has furniture, and presumably incurs other expenses too. Cheers, -Timo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Duffy is doing that now at UA...but unless I'm mistaken, he's a single point of failure in the whole "where to meet for The Meeting" process. Seems like an unhandled exception just waiting to throw a stack trace. (okay, that was a bit too geeky for even me to write.) org.tucson-jug.TimoIsBeingGeekyException at gillman.duffy.ReadEmail (ReadEmail.java:57) at gillman.duffy.StareIdlyWhileDrinkingCoffee (StareIdlyWhileDrinkingCoffee.java:1044) at gillman.duffy.MorningRouting (MorningRouting:32) ... 39 more :) Yes, I have previously felt a little awkward realizing that if I don't show the TJUG becomes an exciting hallway experience. More than once I've been pulled in by conscience alone (..."but Lifetime is running a Little House on the Prarie marathon this Tuesday... *sigh*"). But what alternatives do you have in mind? I think we might be able to get a meeting room at the UA Library with little or no effort - but I don't imagine we'd get a fancy overhead projector. And think of that fabulous doorbell, Timo! What would replace the fabulous doorbell? -D - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
> Geez Timo, did we offend you? First you dis our job > offering, now the "wear out the welcome" crack. ;) Hmmm... that job email seems like it was a long time ago... I do vaguely remember taking a jab at the description, which I think was fairly boring and vague, eh? ;-) The point, perhaps backhanded, was that AMO, Simon, and others were kind enough month after month to provide a room, an overhead projector, and somebody to lock the place up after we left. Duffy is doing that now at UA...but unless I'm mistaken, he's a single point of failure in the whole "where to meet for The Meeting" process. Seems like an unhandled exception just waiting to throw a stack trace. (okay, that was a bit too geeky for even me to write.) > For the record, the JUG did not wear out the welcome at AMO, > we just kept converting the big conference rooms into office > space until there were no more conference rooms big enough > for the meetings. Really, that's all? I could have sworn somebody gave me the finger the last time we were there. Hmm, well, that might have just been Drew. ;-) > Personally, though I rarely attend the meetings anymore, So, uh... rare == 0? Seriously, what can we do to convince you to drop by some time? > I would be happy to pay annual dues to support the group and > the "option" of attending some awesome presentations. I think everyone has violently agreed that the meetings should stay open to anyone (even you Vince... as I recall, someone actually said the words, "even Vince"... err...maybe that was me saying the words... hmm, can't recall...) > Another thing to consider is individual dues and corporate > dues. Corporate dues would be more expensive, but would > entitle all employees of the corporation to attend member > only events and access to the "not quite free" stuff. Indeed something to think about. Coming up with the list of "not quite free" stuff is on the list of things to do. Food comes to mind, but if folks aren't attending in Tucson, not so much of a benefit... same for parties and beer. Begs the question -- what would convince folks it's worthwhile supporting this group with cold hard cash? Thoughts? Cheers, Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
We apparently wore out our welcome at Old Pueblo Traders -- and if the same happens with Duffy and UA, then the group is homeless, budgetless, and projectorless. Ya! Throw some money my way! ;) (couldn't resist) -D - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Geez Timo, did we offend you? First you dis our job offering, now the "wear out the welcome" crack. ;) For the record, the JUG did not wear out the welcome at AMO, we just kept converting the big conference rooms into office space until there were no more conference rooms big enough for the meetings. Personally, though I rarely attend the meetings anymore, I would be happy to pay annual dues to support the group and the "option" of attending some awesome presentations. Another thing to consider is individual dues and corporate dues. Corporate dues would be more expensive, but would entitle all employees of the corporation to attend member only events and access to the "not quite free" stuff. --- Begin Message --- The organization in William's story was certainly silly... but that was perhaps a problem due to that groups silly rules. But at least they were one step ahead us -- we have no ground rules at all. ;-) The informal donations might cover hosting budget for a year or so, but I think there is more to consider. Without dues, everyone/anyone is a member and can use the "free" server, eat "free" food at meetings, and vote on issues. I don't know about others, but if I'm going to give money to a group, I want a little more say in how it's spent than the freeloaders. ;-) I'd also prefer dues so the group had a known budget - would make it easier to plan for expenditures for hosting, holiday parties, food, or to take a guest speaker out for drink, or buy them a thank you. I don't think it's fair to just rely on the few of us who usually attend to pick up the tab for this kind of thing. And I don't believe the group will grow if we have to always beg for handouts. We apparently wore out our welcome at Old Pueblo Traders -- and if the same happens with Duffy and UA, then the group is homeless, budgetless, and projectorless. I'd like to see the group think longer term and bigger than just our next preso. Cheers, Timo > -Original Message- > From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:29 AM > To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org > Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution > > Why, we're just poor programmers! You're not implying that > our time is worth more than our money are you??? > > But seriously, I agree entirely. For something like > $18/month for hosting, the informal approach would be more > efficient than dues. > Popping for chips and coke to lure college students might be > another matter, though - but I'm not sure... > > -- Chad > > On 2/1/06, William H. Mitchell > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think it would be great if the various consultants, > contractors, and > > companies that have benefited from the JUG would simply > offer to step > > up and help fund reasonable expenses as they see fit. Thus > my offer > > cover hosting for a year, assuming we have a webmaster > (that's the big > > contribution, of course). > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- End Message --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
The organization in William's story was certainly silly... but that was perhaps a problem due to that groups silly rules. But at least they were one step ahead us -- we have no ground rules at all. ;-) The informal donations might cover hosting budget for a year or so, but I think there is more to consider. Without dues, everyone/anyone is a member and can use the "free" server, eat "free" food at meetings, and vote on issues. I don't know about others, but if I'm going to give money to a group, I want a little more say in how it's spent than the freeloaders. ;-) I'd also prefer dues so the group had a known budget - would make it easier to plan for expenditures for hosting, holiday parties, food, or to take a guest speaker out for drink, or buy them a thank you. I don't think it's fair to just rely on the few of us who usually attend to pick up the tab for this kind of thing. And I don't believe the group will grow if we have to always beg for handouts. We apparently wore out our welcome at Old Pueblo Traders -- and if the same happens with Duffy and UA, then the group is homeless, budgetless, and projectorless. I'd like to see the group think longer term and bigger than just our next preso. Cheers, Timo > -Original Message- > From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:29 AM > To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org > Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution > > Why, we're just poor programmers! You're not implying that > our time is worth more than our money are you??? > > But seriously, I agree entirely. For something like > $18/month for hosting, the informal approach would be more > efficient than dues. > Popping for chips and coke to lure college students might be > another matter, though - but I'm not sure... > > -- Chad > > On 2/1/06, William H. Mitchell > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think it would be great if the various consultants, > contractors, and > > companies that have benefited from the JUG would simply > offer to step > > up and help fund reasonable expenses as they see fit. Thus > my offer > > cover hosting for a year, assuming we have a webmaster > (that's the big > > contribution, of course). > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Why, we're just poor programmers! You're not implying that our time is worth more than our money are you??? But seriously, I agree entirely. For something like $18/month for hosting, the informal approach would be more efficient than dues. Popping for chips and coke to lure college students might be another matter, though - but I'm not sure... -- Chad On 2/1/06, William H. Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think it would be great if the various consultants, contractors, > and companies that have benefited from the JUG would simply offer to > step up and help fund reasonable expenses as they see fit. Thus my > offer cover hosting for a year, assuming we have a webmaster (that's > the big contribution, of course). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Any name of record for the account would be fine with me. Maybe we can reach an initial agreement on the particulars at the next meeting, hop on the net, and sign up for hosting on the spot. Or whoever takes the ball for getting the site up could pay themselves and I could send them a check. FWIW on the subject of dues, my experience with small organizations charging dues is that it can lead to a lot of stupidness and pettiness. (Example: I was once asked to sign up for a membership to attend an (unnamed) computer club meeting even though I was one of the speakers for the evening!) I think it would be great if the various consultants, contractors, and companies that have benefited from the JUG would simply offer to step up and help fund reasonable expenses as they see fit. Thus my offer cover hosting for a year, assuming we have a webmaster (that's the big contribution, of course). At 03:03 PM 1/31/2006, Chad wrote: Cool. I was about to offer to pick it up myself just to get it moving. Who's name would the account be under? I guess our Treasurer? Wait - we still don't even have a replacement President yet. Darn... On 1/31/06, William H. Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just to keep this moving, Mitchell Software Engineering will be happy > to sponsor JUG hosting by picking up the fees for a year, assuming > they're in the rimuhosting ball park. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Additionally the sysadmin/webmaster would have to answer service requests (which I do get from time to time). I'm also throwing in things like: Setting up apache with mod_jk Setting up other services like subversion/trac/etc. (but yeah those things can come later) General plan might be: Setup hosting with temp domain Get mailing list setup Get web-site migrated Get confluence setup (with mysql) Setup at least two e-mail addies (mine and info) We should also talk about transferring ownership of the domain at some point in the near future Shift DNS - we could also keep the mailing lists where they are (i'm fairly certain of this, it would reduce downtime, just a thought) -warner On Jan 31, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: What does being sysadmin entail at this point? Putting aside the existing Confluence setup (it's easy to do again, right?), I see this: * Obtain account w/Rimu * set up mailing lists, migrate accounts * migrate website * migrate email accounts (is this needed? who else has one besides you, warner? I'd rather not be in the business of hosting people's email accounts if we can avoid it - and we can always set up forwarding for any existing accounts) * switch DNS * what else If this is it for now, I'll volunteer for it, then we can work out in the future who wants to help with additional stuff we don't already have, as well as admin privileges. I agree on waiting until Feb to make the final decision, but I'd rather get a tentative plan hashed out now before we meet, so we can avoid spending a lot of time discussing details. -- Chad On 1/31/06, Warner Onstine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, is someone actually volunteering to be the sysadmin for this environment? Until we have at least that I wouldn't move forward. Additionally, I would say let's at least wait until Feb's meeting to make a decision on this. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
What does being sysadmin entail at this point? Putting aside the existing Confluence setup (it's easy to do again, right?), I see this: * Obtain account w/Rimu * set up mailing lists, migrate accounts * migrate website * migrate email accounts (is this needed? who else has one besides you, warner? I'd rather not be in the business of hosting people's email accounts if we can avoid it - and we can always set up forwarding for any existing accounts) * switch DNS * what else If this is it for now, I'll volunteer for it, then we can work out in the future who wants to help with additional stuff we don't already have, as well as admin privileges. I agree on waiting until Feb to make the final decision, but I'd rather get a tentative plan hashed out now before we meet, so we can avoid spending a lot of time discussing details. -- Chad On 1/31/06, Warner Onstine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, is someone actually volunteering to be the sysadmin for this > environment? Until we have at least that I wouldn't move forward. > Additionally, I would say let's at least wait until Feb's meeting to > make a decision on this. > > -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
So, is someone actually volunteering to be the sysadmin for this environment? Until we have at least that I wouldn't move forward. Additionally, I would say let's at least wait until Feb's meeting to make a decision on this. -warner On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:06 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: Rimu installs Webmin with your Distro, so you can GUI or Command Line to your heart's content. Webmin is great for easy administration if you're not the masochistic unix guru type... On 1/31/06, Warner Onstine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I agree. Also, one thing that wasn't mentioned in the email (and I can't find on their site) is email accounts and mailing list management. With our current solution it is very easy to add new addresses as well as manage the mailing list (which is also something that I do on a regular basis that I would gladly hand over to someone). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Rimu installs Webmin with your Distro, so you can GUI or Command Line to your heart's content. Webmin is great for easy administration if you're not the masochistic unix guru type... On 1/31/06, Warner Onstine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I agree. Also, one thing that wasn't mentioned in the email (and I > can't find on their site) is email accounts and mailing list > management. With our current solution it is very easy to add new > addresses as well as manage the mailing list (which is also something > that I do on a regular basis that I would gladly hand over to someone). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Cool. I was about to offer to pick it up myself just to get it moving. Who's name would the account be under? I guess our Treasurer? Wait - we still don't even have a replacement President yet. Darn... On 1/31/06, William H. Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just to keep this moving, Mitchell Software Engineering will be happy > to sponsor JUG hosting by picking up the fees for a year, assuming > they're in the rimuhosting ball park. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
G'day, mates. I'd definitely recommend Rimu. I've been with them for the last 2-3 years, after initially trying a couple of other Java hosting outfits. Rimu gives you a full virtual system, and you can install whatever packages you want on that system (as well as configure iptables, etc., however you want). I just use Tomcat on mine, with iptables port forwarding so that incoming requests on port 80 get redirected to 8080. That way I can run Tomcat non-root. Besides the flexibility, Rimu also has a great set of how-tos for everything from Tomcat and MySQL through email setup. - Dennis Dennis M. Sosnoski Enterprise Java, XML, and Web Services Training and Consulting http://www.sosnoski.com Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117 Seattle, WA +1-425-296-6194 Warner Onstine wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: Cool, thanks for checking into that, Chad! I'm +1 for rimuhosting...assuming we can get enough dues collected to cover at least 12 months, preferably 24 months. Until we are a non-profit organization with a bank account... somebody will have to personally handle the hosting/payment, eh? I think we should figure out a bit more of the "organization" and "business" stuff before we get the hosting solution and dues going Thoughts? I agree. Also, one thing that wasn't mentioned in the email (and I can't find on their site) is email accounts and mailing list management. With our current solution it is very easy to add new addresses as well as manage the mailing list (which is also something that I do on a regular basis that I would gladly hand over to someone). -warner -Tim -Original Message- From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:08 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout RimuHosting got back to me. They will waive the setup fee and give us a 10% discount, which works out to $18/month for a linux VPS with full root access and choice of distro, 96MB ram and 4 gig of disk: http://rimuhosting.com/order/startorder.jsp These guys have great support too, they are very helpful plus have a bliki with lots of specific HOWTOs on setting stuff up: http://bliki.rimuhosting.com/space/start If anyone knows of a better deal that gives full root access, pipe up. Lets get this moving... P.S. As for hosting it on SourceForge as was suggested, I'd personally rather have it hosted on something we have control over - with a wiki, and with subversion, and anything else we think up. On 1/30/06, Tim Colson (tcolson) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's been the time and coordination that has been difficult. Ex. Hardware. Stable OS. Access to the box. Setup of Java SDK. Setup of - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
On Jan 30, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: Cool, thanks for checking into that, Chad! I'm +1 for rimuhosting...assuming we can get enough dues collected to cover at least 12 months, preferably 24 months. Until we are a non-profit organization with a bank account... somebody will have to personally handle the hosting/payment, eh? I think we should figure out a bit more of the "organization" and "business" stuff before we get the hosting solution and dues going Thoughts? I agree. Also, one thing that wasn't mentioned in the email (and I can't find on their site) is email accounts and mailing list management. With our current solution it is very easy to add new addresses as well as manage the mailing list (which is also something that I do on a regular basis that I would gladly hand over to someone). -warner -Tim -Original Message- From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:08 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout RimuHosting got back to me. They will waive the setup fee and give us a 10% discount, which works out to $18/month for a linux VPS with full root access and choice of distro, 96MB ram and 4 gig of disk: http://rimuhosting.com/order/startorder.jsp These guys have great support too, they are very helpful plus have a bliki with lots of specific HOWTOs on setting stuff up: http://bliki.rimuhosting.com/space/start If anyone knows of a better deal that gives full root access, pipe up. Lets get this moving... P.S. As for hosting it on SourceForge as was suggested, I'd personally rather have it hosted on something we have control over - with a wiki, and with subversion, and anything else we think up. On 1/30/06, Tim Colson (tcolson) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's been the time and coordination that has been difficult. Ex. Hardware. Stable OS. Access to the box. Setup of Java SDK. Setup of - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
Just to keep this moving, Mitchell Software Engineering will be happy to sponsor JUG hosting by picking up the fees for a year, assuming they're in the rimuhosting ball park. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
