Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/20/2015 01:31 PM, Anne Wilson wrote: > Hehe! Only on a KDE list could an exhortion to stop bikeshedding become > the latest bikeshed! The Debian community is currently having a bikeshed over whether to call a new community tool Bikeshed. We can't hope to compete. > Anne Cheers, Eike

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 19/09/2015 15:24, Eike Hein wrote: > > > On 09/19/2015 02:12 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote: >> Some of you wanted the mirror on Github because apparently there >> are developers out there who are too lazy (or too dumb) to learn to >> use new tools. Are those developers we want? > >

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 19 September 2015 at 21:08, Eike Hein wrote: > > > On 09/19/2015 08:58 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: >> Even using a review tool in the first place is something that the maintainer >> asks people to do. > > No. We advertise ReviewBoard (and later Phab) as a general > interface to

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 08:58 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > Even using a review tool in the first place is something that the maintainer > asks people to do. No. We advertise ReviewBoard (and later Phab) as a general interface to throw code at our maintainers. "I don't look at ReviewBoard" is not a

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 19 September 2015 at 21:24, Ivan Čukić wrote: >> Could you mention at least one KDE git repo that belongs to multiple > > Eike already mentioned that Plasma has a single repo in which > different parts are maintained by different people. But is Plasma a single project or

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 09:13 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: > Could you mention at least one KDE git repo that belongs to multiple > projects? And thus maybe multiple even multiple groups of maintainers? I have previously in the thread: Different subfolders in plasma-desktop.git have different maintainers,

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 20:32:43, Eike Hein wrote: > On 09/19/2015 08:25 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > > Saying "I don't look at the KDE review tool" would be like saying "I am > > not > > interested in your patch". > > Saying "My personal productivity and efficiency matters more > to me in the

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 21:08:27, Eike Hein wrote: > On 09/19/2015 08:58 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > > Even using a review tool in the first place is something that the > > maintainer asks people to do. > > No. We advertise ReviewBoard (and later Phab) as a general > interface to throw code at

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 09:36 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > So, right now, a maintainer is expected to check reviewboard even if they are > content with all holders of commit accounts to push directly. > But that as soon as there is a second option, then not checking reviewboard > becomes acceptable?

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 2015-09-19, Kevin Krammer wrote: >> No, I'm afraid of code review slowly moving from KDE to github up to = > the >> final point where I need to get a github account because otherwise I = > cannot >> contribute code. > > You mean that a KDE project would ignore your review

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 19:58:26, Eike Hein wrote: > On 09/19/2015 07:52 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > > You mean that a KDE project would ignore your review request it it comes > > from reviewboard/phabricator? > > I think that's a realistic, even likely concern. We already > know that some devs

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 08:25 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > Saying "I don't look at the KDE review tool" would be like saying "I am not > interested in your patch". Saying "My personal productivity and efficiency matters more to me in the long-run than your patch, so please use the tool I prefer to reach

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote: > Wow, over 150 mails over that whole Github stuff, I am amazed. > > Let me chime in to give you a non-developer perspective: Caveat: some > strong language ahead, but please take all this with a grain of salt > :) > >

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 02:12 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote: > Some of you wanted the mirror on Github because apparently there are > developers out there who are too lazy (or too dumb) to learn to use > new tools. Are those developers we want? Developer recruitment should be our #1 problem for the next

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, September 19, 2015 16:24:13 Eike Hein wrote: > On 09/19/2015 02:12 PM, Myriam Schweingruber wrote: > > Some of you wanted the mirror on Github because apparently there are > > developers out there who are too lazy (or too dumb) to learn to use > > new tools. Are those developers we want? >

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 04:24:13 PM Eike Hein wrote: > Developer recruitment should be our #1 problem for the > next two years, and along those lines "GitHub might get > us contributors" is by far the strongest argument that > side's come up with. Somebody once defined Github as the

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 19 September 2015 at 20:28, Michael Pyne wrote: > My personal feeling is that opting to go the actual-development-on-Github > route would simply introduce a schism in development workflow, despite the > best intentions of any party. And if you think *these* threads are filled

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 17:19:16, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 10:58:09 AM Michael Pyne wrote: > > Is anyone actually arguing this point in the way you ask? No one's asking > > to prevent "one offs" entirely, the core of the issue is that KDE > > development should

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, September 19, 2015 16:42:54 Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > If somebody happened to send me some material for WikiToLearn through the > Facebook page (it has happened), I don't reject it asking him/her to resend > it to the mailing list, because that would never work. I accept the > material,

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 10:58:09 AM Michael Pyne wrote: > Is anyone actually arguing this point in the way you ask? No one's asking > to prevent "one offs" entirely, the core of the issue is that KDE > development should happen *within* KDE-the-whole-community, not *apart > from* KDE.

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:19:16 PM CEST Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 10:58:09 AM Michael Pyne wrote: > > Is anyone actually arguing this point in the way you ask? No one's asking > > to prevent "one offs" entirely, the core of the issue is that KDE > >

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 07:52 PM, Kevin Krammer wrote: > You mean that a KDE project would ignore your review request it it comes from > reviewboard/phabricator? I think that's a realistic, even likely concern. We already know that some devs don't like using multiple code review sites concurrently from

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 5:53 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: > My fear here is that if we allow pull request, people will also start to use > them for code review at which point we have split the development team in > those doing code review through reviewboard and those through

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:57:09 PM CEST Eike Hein wrote: > On 09/19/2015 05:54 PM, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > > while rejecting them autmatically isjust a great way to drive potential > > contributors away... > > Which is a good reason why the mirror shouldn't have happened > - regret

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: >> * Google+ Hangouts (Just discussed some things related to the Baloo >> KCM a week ago) > closed Martin. There are weekly Plasma meetings on Google+! Those are as essential as code review. They control the direction

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 17:53:17, Martin Graesslin wrote: > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:46:07 PM CEST Kevin Krammer wrote: > > The patch would still go through review at KDE. Even with no github at all > > a patch could have been through several revisions before being submitted. > > The

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Eike Hein wrote: > > I expect you'll ignore this as much as my other mail, but > all of these are ephemeral in nature instead of offering > a persistent record -- that's why we submit minutes of the > Hangouts to the plasma-devel mailing list, for

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 6:38:26 PM CEST Kevin Krammer wrote: > On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 17:53:17, Martin Graesslin wrote: > > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:46:07 PM CEST Kevin Krammer wrote: > > > The patch would still go through review at KDE. Even with no github at > > > all > > > a

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: > No, I'm afraid of code review slowly moving from KDE to github up to the final > point where I need to get a github account because otherwise I cannot > contribute code. When/If that actually happens, you can bring it

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 6:49:48 PM CEST Vishesh Handa wrote: > On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: > > No, I'm afraid of code review slowly moving from KDE to github up to the > > final point where I need to get a github account because otherwise

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Luca Beltrame wrote: > Il Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:49:48 +0200, Vishesh Handa ha scritto: > >> When/If that actually happens, you can bring it up and then we can deal >> with it. Dealing in extreme What-Ifs does not help this discussion. > > To be

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 17:36:09, Martin Graesslin wrote: > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:19:16 PM CEST Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > > I think there was some confusion on that point, so let me state this > > again: > > the agreement is that github mirrors ARE going to be kept read-only, so >

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:46:07 PM CEST Kevin Krammer wrote: > On Saturday, 2015-09-19, 17:36:09, Martin Graesslin wrote: > > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:19:16 PM CEST Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > > > I think there was some confusion on that point, so let me state this > > > again: >

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

I understand the takeover concern, it is a valid point. If I become the maintainer of application X, which was accepting pull requests, and I don't want to have a github account, I either have to create an account, find somebody on the team who wants to monitor pull requests, or change the

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 05:54 PM, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > while rejecting them autmatically isjust a great way to drive potential > contributors away... Which is a good reason why the mirror shouldn't have happened - regret being on vacation during that time. Cheers, Eike

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On 09/19/2015 05:58 PM, Vishesh Handa wrote: > We already use some other forms of code review - > > * IRC > * Email > * IM > * Google+ Hangouts (Just discussed some things related to the Baloo > KCM a week ago) > * Knocking on David's door and screaming "I need you to look at some code" I

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: >> When/If that actually happens, you can bring it up and then we can >> deal with it. Dealing in extreme What-Ifs does not help this >> discussion. > > yeah well, we also said github is only a mirror and pull requests

Re: [kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 7:04:46 PM CEST Vishesh Handa wrote: > On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Martin Graesslin wrote: > >> When/If that actually happens, you can bring it up and then we can > >> deal with it. Dealing in extreme What-Ifs does not help this > >>