Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Johannes Zarl-Zierl]

Am 22. Juni 2019 11:38:24 MESZ schrieb Ben Cooksley :
>2) The description section should move above the duplicates check
>
>Thoughts?

Would it be an option to have the duplicates check sideways to the right of the 
description section (at least when theres enough screen space)?

Johannes

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Ilmari Lauhakangas]

Nate Graham kirjoitti 22.6.2019 klo 12.44:

2) The description section should move above the duplicates check


I think this makes the duplicates check less useful, but the underlying 
issue here is that the duplicates check is itself not really as accurate 
as it could be so it's not helping users they way we envision it should.


Mozilla is working on an improvement:
https://github.com/mozilla/bugbug
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/04/teaching-machines-to-triage-firefox-bugs/

Ilmari

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Nate Graham]

On 6/22/19 11:38 AM, Ben Cooksley wrote:

Hi all,

Just summarising this thread, in part because we need consensus if
we're to action any change here:

1) We should require users to provide a description (and ensure that
said description is more than just our template) and prevent filing
the bug if they don't provide a description


+1


2) The description section should move above the duplicates check


I think this makes the duplicates check less useful, but the underlying 
issue here is that the duplicates check is itself not really as accurate 
as it could be so it's not helping users they way we envision it should.


Nate

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Ben Cooksley]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 8:28 PM Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
>
> On woensdag 19 juni 2019 19:30:54 CEST Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> > El dimarts, 18 de juny de 2019, a les 15:05:50 CEST, Boudewijn Rempt va 
> > escriure:
> > > I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm 
> > > getting two, three or more reports a day with no information in the 
> > > description at all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the 
> > > description field out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see 
> > > and try to cram their entire report in the summary line.
> > >
> > > Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?
> >
> > Are you sure that this is what happening?
>
> I saw it happen to myself, even. It's the most logical explanation, too, for 
> the number of bug reports I get with the template unchanged.
>
> > I mean before you start writing the summary you can clearly see the 
> > Description field. Sure when you write something into it the duplicates 
> > area may push it away, but do people forget about the Description so fast?
>
> Yes, they do. Don't forget that I tend to have the least technical bug 
> reporters you can imagine.
>
> > I don't think it makes sense moving the duplicates block after Description, 
> > the idea of the duplicates block is that you write the subject, then you 
> > get a suggestion of duplicates and say "oh yes, this is a duplicate of my 
> > bug" and thus you don't need to write the whole big text.
>
> It takes a lot of specialist knowledge to actually recognize a bug as a 
> duplicate, so I'm not even sure there is much value in the list of duplicates.
>
> > Maybe we can explore making the duplicate list 
> > smaller/scrollable/collapsible?
> >
> > Also, if people are submitting the bug, they are scrolling down, seeing the 
> > Description field and ignoring it anyway.
> >
>
> What they see is a field filled with text -- and since there's text, they 
> might not even notice that it still needs filling out.

Hi all,

Just summarising this thread, in part because we need consensus if
we're to action any change here:

1) We should require users to provide a description (and ensure that
said description is more than just our template) and prevent filing
the bug if they don't provide a description
2) The description section should move above the duplicates check

Thoughts?

>
>
> --
> https://www.krita.org

Cheers,
Ben

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Boudewijn Rempt]

On woensdag 19 juni 2019 19:30:54 CEST Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> El dimarts, 18 de juny de 2019, a les 15:05:50 CEST, Boudewijn Rempt va 
> escriure:
> > I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm 
> > getting two, three or more reports a day with no information in the 
> > description at all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the 
> > description field out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see 
> > and try to cram their entire report in the summary line.
> > 
> > Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?
> 
> Are you sure that this is what happening?

I saw it happen to myself, even. It's the most logical explanation, too, for 
the number of bug reports I get with the template unchanged.

> I mean before you start writing the summary you can clearly see the 
> Description field. Sure when you write something into it the duplicates area 
> may push it away, but do people forget about the Description so fast?

Yes, they do. Don't forget that I tend to have the least technical bug 
reporters you can imagine.

> I don't think it makes sense moving the duplicates block after Description, 
> the idea of the duplicates block is that you write the subject, then you get 
> a suggestion of duplicates and say "oh yes, this is a duplicate of my bug" 
> and thus you don't need to write the whole big text.

It takes a lot of specialist knowledge to actually recognize a bug as a 
duplicate, so I'm not even sure there is much value in the list of duplicates.

> Maybe we can explore making the duplicate list smaller/scrollable/collapsible?
> 
> Also, if people are submitting the bug, they are scrolling down, seeing the 
> Description field and ignoring it anyway.
> 

What they see is a field filled with text -- and since there's text, they might 
not even notice that it still needs filling out.


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https://www.krita.org

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Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Boudewijn Rempt]

On woensdag 19 juni 2019 20:01:39 CEST Nate Graham wrote:
> 
> On 6/19/19 11:30 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> > El dimarts, 18 de juny de 2019, a les 15:05:50 CEST, Boudewijn Rempt va 
> > escriure:
> >> I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm 
> >> getting two, three or more reports a day with no information in the 
> >> description at all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the 
> >> description field out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see 
> >> and try to cram their entire report in the summary line.
> >>
> >> Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?
> > 
> > Are you sure that this is what happening?
> > 
> > I mean before you start writing the summary you can clearly see the 
> > Description field. Sure when you write something into it the duplicates 
> > area may push it away, but do people forget about the Description so fast?
> > 
> > I don't think it makes sense moving the duplicates block after Description, 
> > the idea of the duplicates block is that you write the subject, then you 
> > get a suggestion of duplicates and say "oh yes, this is a duplicate of my 
> > bug" and thus you don't need to write the whole big text.
> > 
> > Maybe we can explore making the duplicate list 
> > smaller/scrollable/collapsible?
> > 
> > Also, if people are submitting the bug, they are scrolling down, seeing the 
> > Description field and ignoring it anyway.
> 
> I tend to agree.
> 
> Could we maybe have the page throw an error if the template hasn't been 
> changed at all when you click the "Submit" button

That would be good to have in any case. 


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Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Nate Graham]

On 6/19/19 11:30 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote:

El dimarts, 18 de juny de 2019, a les 15:05:50 CEST, Boudewijn Rempt va 
escriure:

I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm getting 
two, three or more reports a day with no information in the description at all. 
The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the description field out of 
sight -- and the result is that people don't see and try to cram their entire 
report in the summary line.

Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?


Are you sure that this is what happening?

I mean before you start writing the summary you can clearly see the Description 
field. Sure when you write something into it the duplicates area may push it 
away, but do people forget about the Description so fast?

I don't think it makes sense moving the duplicates block after Description, the idea of 
the duplicates block is that you write the subject, then you get a suggestion of 
duplicates and say "oh yes, this is a duplicate of my bug" and thus you don't 
need to write the whole big text.

Maybe we can explore making the duplicate list smaller/scrollable/collapsible?

Also, if people are submitting the bug, they are scrolling down, seeing the 
Description field and ignoring it anyway.


I tend to agree.

Could we maybe have the page throw an error if the template hasn't been 
changed at all when you click the "Submit" button


Nate

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Albert Astals Cid]

El dimarts, 18 de juny de 2019, a les 15:05:50 CEST, Boudewijn Rempt va 
escriure:
> I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm getting 
> two, three or more reports a day with no information in the description at 
> all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the description field 
> out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see and try to cram their 
> entire report in the summary line.
> 
> Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?

Are you sure that this is what happening?

I mean before you start writing the summary you can clearly see the Description 
field. Sure when you write something into it the duplicates area may push it 
away, but do people forget about the Description so fast?

I don't think it makes sense moving the duplicates block after Description, the 
idea of the duplicates block is that you write the subject, then you get a 
suggestion of duplicates and say "oh yes, this is a duplicate of my bug" and 
thus you don't need to write the whole big text.

Maybe we can explore making the duplicate list smaller/scrollable/collapsible?

Also, if people are submitting the bug, they are scrolling down, seeing the 
Description field and ignoring it anyway.

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> 

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Boudewijn Rempt]

On woensdag 19 juni 2019 16:27:00 CEST Aleix Pol wrote:

> If users are really unable to report bugs properly, it's definitely
> something to address.

I have 152 bug reports for Krita where the description field is nothing but the 
template :-)

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Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Aleix Pol]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 2:25 PM Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
>
> On woensdag 19 juni 2019 12:51:54 CEST Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> > Hi Boud,
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 15:06, Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
> >
> > > I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm
> > > getting two, three or more reports a day with no information in the
> > > description at all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the
> > > description field out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see
> > > and try to cram their entire report in the summary line.
> > >
> > > Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?
> > >
> >
> > Sounds like a question meant for sysadmin, no?
> >
>
> I was wondering if people would be against such a change, but silence is 
> golden, so I'll make the request.

If users are really unable to report bugs properly, it's definitely
something to address.

Aleix

Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Boudewijn Rempt]

On woensdag 19 juni 2019 12:51:54 CEST Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> Hi Boud,
> 
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 15:06, Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
> 
> > I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm
> > getting two, three or more reports a day with no information in the
> > description at all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the
> > description field out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see
> > and try to cram their entire report in the summary line.
> >
> > Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?
> >
> 
> Sounds like a question meant for sysadmin, no?
> 

I was wondering if people would be against such a change, but silence is 
golden, so I'll make the request.


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Re: Bugzilla order of sections when entering a new bug

[Myriam Schweingruber]

Hi Boud,

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 15:06, Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:

> I was just entering a bug for Krita when I suddenly realized why I'm
> getting two, three or more reports a day with no information in the
> description at all. The duplicates block is so large that it pushes the
> description field out of sight -- and the result is that people don't see
> and try to cram their entire report in the summary line.
>
> Would it be possible to switch the two blocks in the bug report template?
>

Sounds like a question meant for sysadmin, no?

Regards, Myriam

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