Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-20 Thread Paul Brown
On viernes, 20 de septiembre de 2019 1:02:29 (CEST) Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > Good question, Jake. > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 3:07 PM Jay tay wrote: > > Why does race, gender etc. Even have to be discussed. More politics in a > > non political place. I'd rather talk about tech and furthering

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Ingo Klöcker
On Donnerstag, 19. September 2019 14:48:28 CEST John Tapsell wrote: > Now using the term "race" is "copying racists"? Wtf? Language barrier problem. Unlike in English, in German, the literal translation of the term "race", i.e. "Rasse", has a different meaning than the English term "race". In

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Valorie Zimmerman
Thanks for all the input so far, especially from Lydia on behalf of the Board. On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:17 PM Nate Graham wrote: > I find it amusing that there is such diversity in interpretations of > what "ensure diversity" means. :) > > Some people seem to interpret it to mean "remove

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Agustín Benito
Hello, On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, 18:58 Thomas Pfeiffer, wrote: > On 19.09.19 11:48, Agustin Benito (toscalix) wrote: > > Hello again, > > > > a clarification from my side... > > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:16 AM Agustín Benito > wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> I am against this. I find

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Nate Graham
I find it amusing that there is such diversity in interpretations of what "ensure diversity" means. :) Some people seem to interpret it to mean "remove institutional barriers and bias faced by non-straight-white-male candidates" and other people interpret it to mean "prefer and promote

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread John Tapsell
Now using the term "race" is "copying racists"? Wtf? On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, 21:37 Friedrich W. H. Kossebau, wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 19. September 2019, 10:31:38 CEST schrieb Christian Loosli: > > I think that people should be elected into positions based on their > > suitability for that

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Nadeem Hasan
It is amazing to see as we reach the year 2020, the amount of ignorance (willful or otherwise) regarding what ensuring diversity means among the educated adults in this group. The call to ensure diversity does not mean choosing someone less qualified who is not "white straight male" for the

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread John Tapsell
I also agree with us insisting on only preapproved skin color and genitals. On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, 11:59 Valorie Zimmerman, wrote: > As many of you know, Richard Stallman has stepped down from the FSF. > However, his supporters on the FSF Board remain. The FSF is on our Advisory > Board,

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Thomas Pfeiffer
On 19.09.19 11:48, Agustin Benito (toscalix) wrote: > Hello again, > > a clarification from my side... > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:16 AM Agustín Benito wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I am against this. I find disrespectful to tell a fellow organization what >> they should do. I would feel the

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Paul Brown
On jueves, 19 de septiembre de 2019 12:48:33 (CEST) Harald Sitter wrote: > With that in mind I would propose that we make a statement, but not to > the FSF... our statement should be one in support of a healthy, > diverse and inclusive free software community to that very community > at large.

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Friedrich W. H. Kossebau
Am Donnerstag, 19. September 2019, 10:31:38 CEST schrieb Christian Loosli: > I think that people should be elected into positions based on their > suitability for that position, which means that things like sex, gender, > race, cultural background, sexual orientation etc. pp. Race? Sounds like

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Harald Sitter
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 10:29 AM Jens wrote: > > TBH I worry less about past transgressions or the communicative fallout > than I do a lack of response from us. (this is me not having a blessed > clue what exactly went down 2009) > > I do agree with you on many points and I think you raise a lot

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Lydia Pintscher
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 4:59 AM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > As many of you know, Richard Stallman has stepped down from the FSF. However, > his supporters on the FSF Board remain. The FSF is on our Advisory Board, > according to https://ev.kde.org/advisoryboard.php > > Accordingly, I would like

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Laszlo Papp
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 9:31 AM Christian Loosli wrote: > Hi all, > > I mostly agree with Agustin and Jens: > > I think that people should be elected into positions based on their > suitability for that position, which means that things like sex, gender, > race, > cultural background, sexual

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Agustin Benito (toscalix)
Hello again, a clarification from my side... On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:16 AM Agustín Benito wrote: > > Hello, > > I am against this. I find disrespectful to tell a fellow organization what > they should do. I would feel the same way if anybody does it to us. > KDE eV is not an affiliate of

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Sven Brauch
Hi, yes, what Christian says is a maybe more elaborate phrasing of what I also wanted to say. Greetings! On 9/19/19 10:31 AM, Christian Loosli wrote: Hi all, I mostly agree with Agustin and Jens: I think that people should be elected into positions based on their suitability for that

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Luca Beltrame
Il giorno Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:59:09 -0700 Valorie Zimmerman ha scritto: > Accordingly, I would like us (the KDE Community) to advise them to > diversify their Board, as RedHat has done here: At this point, it is too late, IMO. Additionally, KDE is in no position to tell the FSF what to do.

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Christian Loosli
Hi all, I mostly agree with Agustin and Jens: I think that people should be elected into positions based on their suitability for that position, which means that things like sex, gender, race, cultural background, sexual orientation etc. pp. should neither be an advantage nor a

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Jens
TBH I worry less about past transgressions or the communicative fallout than I do a lack of response from us. (this is me not having a blessed clue what exactly went down 2009) I do agree with you on many points and I think you raise a lot of good concerns at the same time, we missed the boat

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread David Cahalane
KDE would be the first organization not directly linked to FSF to issue a public statement on this. It would also come over a week after RMS' statements gained media attention, and several days after his resignation. If we wanted to voice our desire for a more open FOSS community, we should

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Kai Bojens
On 19/09/2019 –– 09:54:00AM +0200, Sven Brauch wrote: > I am against diversifying for diversifying's sake. It's something that is > already way too prevalent in today's society. Let's please pick the best > person for the job, regardless of race, gender, or whatever, and let's > especially

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Jens
I disagree with a lot of the ideological/sociological statements in your comment, but will focus on the core point: What we're suggesting is chosing someone that is objectively BETTER for the FSF. The post isn't only technical in nature, but instead one of community leadership, communication and

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Sven Brauch
Hi, On Thursday, 19 September 2019 04:59:09 CEST Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > Accordingly, I would like us (the KDE Community) to advise them to > diversify their Board, as RedHat has done here: I am against diversifying for diversifying's sake. It's something that is already way too prevalent in

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Jens
I would like to voice my support for Valorie's and Paul's statements here. Ie: that we do comment and suggest that they diversify their board, do it publicly, but be very VERY careful to ensure that our support of them comes across. We need to do this publicly too - not to excuse our past

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Helio Chissini de Castro
I understand RH. The gamemis political now, is a chance to make FSF a real org to match Linux Foundation power domination recently. They just can't speak directly about this, but use the nice inclusion topic, helping then to say the message without been heavy political sided. And i want raise a

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Paul Adams
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, 08:17 Agustín Benito, wrote: > we should support them, not tell them what to do. > One of RMSs best-known transgressions took place on _our_ stage at Gran Canaria. We did not exactly take much action at the time. If this community really cares about Free Software and

Re: FSF leadership

2019-09-19 Thread Agustín Benito
Hello, I am against this. I find disrespectful to tell a fellow organization what they should do. I would feel the same way if anybody does it to us. There are things that should be dealt in private. This is one of them. The most important thing is that they make the right choice, not the most