My opinion is that what KiCad currently does is fine and the library
contributors
already ensure that VRML files are scaled to meet KiCad's expectations.
The fact that various tools will use different units in a VRML file and
that few
tools (including MCADs, our primary source of high quality
The document I linked is the HTML version of the ISO/IEC standard as
published by the Web3D consortium (previously known as the VRML
consortium). There is no textual difference between the PDF of the ISO
document and the webpage.
If Wings3D doesn't use this, then it makes sense that we may have
Hi Seth,
What you have on the w3 site is essentially an interpretation by the
author of that page;
the spec referred to reads differently. At any rate, that doesn't change
the fact that existing
software for creating VRML (including Wings3D that many KiCad users used
long ago)
don't use a unit
I don't follow your statement. The standard says "ISO/IEC 14772 defines
the unit of measure of the world coordinate system to be metres." There is
no ambiguity here, so I would feel comfortable with saying that KiCad also
defines the VRML standard unit to be meters (metres).
As to the file
That's the same reference - the problem is with the wording 'is', not
'shall' or 'must be'.
The reality is that for every tool you pick that generates VRML models, the
unit used is
anyone's guess. On top of that, for KiCad's purposes using meters would
actually
be a nuisance and would
Evans
>> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:53
>> To: Mário Luzeiro
>> Cc: Seth Hillbrand; kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive values?
>>
>> Note Altium's solution to the use case of needing &q
, Cirilo worked alone on the model
> importer code alone and it took some months of work..
>
> Mario
>
>
> From: Kicad-developers
> on behalf of
> Seth Hillbrand
> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:01
> To: Jon Evans
> Cc: kicad-developers@lists.l
as it is very complex format).
> > On the current 3D-Viewer implementation, Cirilo worked alone on the
> model importer code alone and it took some months of work..
> >
> > Mario
> >
> > ____________
> > From: Kicad-developers ua...@lists.launchpad.net> on behalf of Seth Hi
rio
From: Kicad-developers
on behalf of
Cirilo Bernardo
Sent: 29 September 2020 23:08
To: Seth Hillbrand
Cc: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive values?
I don't know who created the original
orked alone on the model
> importer code alone and it took some months of work..
>
> Mario
>
>
> From: Kicad-developers
> on behalf of
> Seth Hillbrand
> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:01
> To: Jon Evans
> Cc: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re:
I don't know who created the original 3D viewer (our current viewer is a
100%
rewrite by Mario), but VRML was chosen because it could be reasonably
implemented and many users found it helpful for things such as checking for
mechanical collisions on the board and of course also for giving some idea
Specifying a 'VRML unit' will not work for many users since they like to
scale
cylinders/boxes to represent many (all?) components and regularly use
a different scale for each axis.
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:39 AM Ian McInerney
wrote:
> I am all for removing scaling completely on STEP models -
Although scaling is allowed in the IGES and STEP specifications, I have
*never* encountered MCAD
software that allowed a scale other than 1 and in engineering there are
essentially no acceptable
reasons to use any other scale factor. When engineers specify parts for an
assembly, the parts need
to
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:33 PM Cirilo Bernardo
wrote:
> Oh, I wish VRML specified meters - that would have made life much easier.
>
See
https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/14772/V2.0/part1/concepts.html#4.4.5
This reads pretty clear to me. Was there a different reference you are
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:54 PM Jon Evans wrote:
> Note Altium's solution to the use case of needing "easy basic models": it
> can actually generate the models built-in.
>
> You just specify some parameters and it will generate cylinders, spheres,
> or extruded shapes from a 2D contour.
>
> If
Oh, I wish VRML specified meters - that would have made life much easier.
No, VRML *recommends* that the units be meters - the reality is that there
are models in inches,
0.1 inches, mm, cm and who knows what else, and unlike CAD model
specifications there is no
mechanism for specifying the units.
me too ;)
>
> Mario
>
>
> From: Jon Evans
> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:53
> To: Mário Luzeiro
> Cc: Seth Hillbrand; kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive valu
Hi,
just to clarify: the 3d models of the official library must be created
such that the scaling factor in the footprint is set to 1. We are
currently rewording the whole section to be clearer
https://gitlab.com/kicad/services/kicad-website/-/merge_requests/502
On 29/09/2020 18:30, Ian
that would work for me too ;)
Mario
From: Jon Evans
Sent: 29 September 2020 19:53
To: Mário Luzeiro
Cc: Seth Hillbrand; kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive values?
Note Altium's
wer implementation, Cirilo worked alone on the model
> importer code alone and it took some months of work..
>
> Mario
>
>
> From: Kicad-developers ua...@lists.launchpad.net> on behalf of Seth Hillbrand >
> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:01
> To: Jon Evans
> Cc: ki
took some months of work..
Mario
From: Kicad-developers
on behalf of
Seth Hillbrand
Sent: 29 September 2020 19:01
To: Jon Evans
Cc: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive values?
I've ne
The question then becomes, how do we want to do this. Should we remove the
(scale ) s-expr from newly saved footprints and replace it with a units
one? Or do we make this a UI-only change and have the UI compute the
scaling factors that are saved in the file.
-Ian
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:02 PM
I've never seen another package use VRML. Everyone uses STEP. I suspect
if we were implementing this today, we would look at the tradeoff on
support/benefit for VRML and limit ourselves to STEP as well.
I like Ian's suggestion for unit options.
-Seth
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:22 AM Jon Evans
I'd find it a loss if the scaling options were gone - I often end up
using scaling for things like inductors, where there's too much variety
to make a model for each size and height, so I'll often grab a model
with the correct fp and wrong height and scale it.
Kliment
On 29.09.20 19:38, Ian
I am all for removing scaling completely on STEP models - those should be
properly defined. I'm not sure the history of why VRML was chosen as the
first model type that was supported, but we shouldn't remove it since it is
used primarily in the 3D viewer to get better renders.
We can probably go
Do other EDA tools allow model scaling? Altium doesn't even allow VRML
import in the first place.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:10 PM Seth Hillbrand wrote:
> Well, we've backed ourselves into a bit of a corner. VRML is specified in
> meters, so if we're assuming inches, we're a bit off in left
Well, we've backed ourselves into a bit of a corner. VRML is specified in
meters, so if we're assuming inches, we're a bit off in left field. But do
we need three separate scale parameters? We could reduce to 1, correct?
In the official footprint library, we have 7 footprints that specify
We can't remove the scaling option until we make the VRML importer handle
proper unit selection. I have routinely run into the case where I go
OpenSCAD -> Wings3D -> KiCad and design a model using mm in OpenSCAD
because it makes for easier computations (all the datasheet values are
nicely given in
There has been some discussion to removing the scale option here
altogether. The logic being that if you need the model scaled, you should
be doing this in your solid CAD not in your electronic CAD. I have come
around to this idea and it might be worth implementing rather than doing
the scale
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