Willie - Mark L se epos = n56ml at hiwaay.net
Waar is jy?
Steve
REMEMBER, GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.?
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Willie van
der Walt via KRnet
Sent: 29 September 2014 04:37 PM
To:
Well done boet - how many have you built already?
Any progress on the KR?
Will be in PE later this year - you still in the same place?
Take care
Steve Jacobs
REMEMBER, GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.?
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at
It would be nice is someone would come up with a complete FWF package,
including the carb, for a decent price.
+++
I made enquiries after seeing an advert and the response was
encouraging, viz.:
Thank you for your e-mail. We do offer an 100 Hp engine, model TMXO-200
I should have clarified that I'd done a little Photoshop work on
that photo
+
Nice catch (without a mitt)
Is there some way to thin T-88 without losing the bonding power.
+++
After much research I have concluded that the short answer is NO.
There are however various considerations depending on the specific
application
I have emailed to you (direct) a copy of an article on this subject.
I switching to Cleveland wheels and I'm awaiting my purchase ...
+
Hi Orma
Why are you changing?
Take care
Steve
Does anyone have wiring diagrams for the KX170B
++
I have sent the pin-outs to you direct - hope this is what you are
looking for.
Take care
SteveJ
Bottom line is that I'm no longer afraid of this thing
There you go now - enjoy some hard earned time aloft.
I realize that it may still be a while, but I am already looking forward
to the final paint job.
Steve J
Does anybody know if ground effect lowers your stall speed?
+++
I always believed that it did not, so I was surprised to read the
compelling evidence from John M, viz., "Mine actually lifts off at 37
knots in ground effect and will fly a foot or so above the ground
however stall
Notice that you never got "airspeed" until you had your first solo. You
were taught to recognize attitude for takeoff , level flight and
landings. They trained a lot of good pilots by this method.
Jeez guys - Africa wants some Friday lea-way here.
There was a time that they
ok has anyone done it , they sound good sounds a lot safer to me with
them ,i will even sacrifice some spped to get the stall down and quicker
t/o
>From my experiments (PA32) you don't need to sacrifice anything.
VG's can help achieve different things, do enough reading and
Congratulations Bwana
= Wise move to put her in the best hands available.
= Why did you opt to seal the fuselage / Tdeck gap?
Good luck with the next flight.
Steve J
sometimes things get off subject,some times
subjects are flogged to death, but for the most
part this is great to be able to communicate
with so many people that are interested in
what I'm keenly interested in. My accolades
go to Mark L. and crew, I personally think
you've got something real good
Hi Barry K
Where do the cute cables attach to on your airplane? (what would the
attitude be whilst suspended by the chute).
The first engine mount looked pretty robust, why did you change it to a
tubular construction?
Take care
Steve J
I would be hanging tail down when descending. While this sounds bad, it
is not, the tail of the aircraft is a crumple zone and my back and head
are fully supported.
Thank you - that makes complete sense and certainly simplifies
everything - perfect KIS.
Steve J
Normally I go full power and the tail is off the ground, 2 up I have
about 20 meters ground roll before the tail comes up
Barry - do you let it come up by itself, or do you deliberately bring it
up with down elevator? Full down?
Performance from the Jab sound pretty good
does anybody know who sells an inexpensive ELT? other than Aircraft
Spruce, Wicks?
+++
RST Engineering -
http://www.rst-engr.com/
Loads of good stuff for home builders
Steve J
By the way, they were not made by Dan Diehl. They were made in South
Africa, where one guy used to have a KR2 license from Ken Rand, and was
manufacturing and marketing the pre-molded parts locally.
+++
If you ever need new parts - you can get exact replacements (from the
same moulds)
The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 drawing.
The
KR2 profile is slightly thicker.
What the hell is wrong here?
Hey mon ami
There is not much wrong - your airplane flies great - no?
The RAF 48 (according to my software) is 14.96% at 30%Ch or 182.43mm
Dreams do come true, and N 61305 will fly again, and Larry now fly's
with
Eagles.
++
What a wonderful thing to say.
This is one of those rare emails that I cannot bring myself to delete -
just read it again and again.
Sure started my day with something extra - Thank you
Dankie Leon
You provided a trip down memory lane for me as well.
I met Sakkie (late 70's) when he was at the boat stage with UKU - at the
time he and his dad owned the DIY centre in Krugersdorp. Peter Eich was
the KR SA guy and Sakkie did most of the foam shaping work in Peter's
hangar at Bara
= I set the pitch at 19° which is equal to 54" pitch.
= static rpms yielded the same as my 2-blade Sterba 56x64 prop
+
Turning 10" less pitch at the same RPM is a bit like a car in a lower
gear, i.e. a ratio that provides less fwd speed for the same rpm. I
would expect the
RFI has come up with a "cut and paste" EFI system for aviation
++
This closes the gap for me - the only remaining issue between an IO
something and a Corvair.
After nearly 30 years in this game, it just must be injected.
I have searched on RFI without joy - any
Thank you Orma, well described, I had no problem fully understanding
your arrangement and it certainly appears to be a good solution - it
works.
I was not aware of the existence of a dual (piggy back) pump - sure is
the ideal solution in this case. Is scavenging a turbo a new concept
(first I
The partly built Aussie design PT-3 has the same WAF as the KR
Hey Phil
I have some info on the TP3 designed by Thomas Philippa in 2001, but
lost contact with Murray Gill (Oz) who was my connection. I heard later
that he went back to school to study philosophy or something.
Well done Mark - here's to many happy hours.
Steve J
Zambia
These may be old news, but just in case:
http://www.ledtronics.com/
http://www.creativair.com/
http://www.killacycle.com/Lights.htm
http://www.steinair.com/
My wing tanks are from the back of the main outter spar aft 13 inches
and 45
inches outwards. these hold 45 litures.( 11 US Gals)
+++
Hey Phil
Our gallon is like your Oz gallon, i.e. an Imperial gallon of 4.55 L.
The only thing American that is not bigger than every one else's, is
Stephen, what model Garmen was that?
++
Hi Dene - Sorry, I can't recall. It was very much like the typical
Garmin hand-held before the moving map units came along. The model
number was one digit different from the otherwise identical aviation GPS
- something like x93 instead of
My wing tanks are from the back of the main outter spar aft 13 inches
and 45
inches outwards. these hold 45 litures.( 11 US Gals)
+++
Hey Phil
Our gallon is like your Oz gallon, i.e. an Imperial gallon of 4.55 L.
The only thing American that is not bigger than every one else's, is
The KR2 and KR2s are the same in this dept - 34" wide.
This should not be an issue as most every KR built deviates in terms of
cockpit width. Widening the cabin by as little as 4" makes a big
difference.
SteveJ
+++
What is your name - Ronald or Steve?
Brian - I would not like to travel long distances in something with
dimensions like a Cessna 150 at about 36".
Ken - I have yet to notice anyone "highly suspicious" on this group
about anything.
+++
I have seen Ron post a few times and 3 or 4 Steve's but never seen
another
It's been a while but I'd say that's for building the ailerons.
+
Thanks Bwana - I should have spotted that one. There has been talk of
laminated spar caps recently and this looked like the right size for
that - had me wondering.
Steve J
Oh yeh, forgot to mention Worldmap is a marine unit and as anyone knows
when the word aircraft is mentioned the price goes up 10 times.
I have a Lowrance now and it works a treat. My first attempt was also a
cost-saver, but it turned out to be a bad idea - check out the
I recalled reading a government report from the twenties pertaining to
use if alternative wood in aircraft production. I've located the link
and
thought I'd post it
+++
Thank you Bill - I am fascinated by this topic and cannot wait to read
the article.
The link did not work
Good day netters
I am trying to establish how much space there actually is between the
pilot and the control stick. The relevance of this is that some folks
have shorter legs than others and need to sit closer to the rudder
pedals - other folks have bigger paunches and need to sit a bit further
There is not a whole lot of room to work with anyway. The more forward
you can sit, the better
Thanks Dan
The above comment is the core of my question - get as far fwd as
possible, BUT how much room is there to do so and still feel comfortable
with the stick position,
Mark L says:
I wouldn't mind if my stick was aft about 3" more than it is. See
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcontrol.html ).
Thank you Mark L
Colin R says:
My seats are 4 inches further forward then plans, bottom 4 inches
forward of rear spar, and seat
Several times I ran out of control input and just had to ride where ever
the plane was going in the turbulence.
++
Wow Colin, can you say a bit more on this please - which control(s)?
Are your control surfaces standard?
Steve J
The Aircraft Spruce catalogue (web page) calls for 24' of 1/4" x 3NOM
spruce - what is this for?
Take care
Steve J
>From what I understand, Gary has stretched the KR2S some what and
modified/improved the design. He has also made many pre-formed parts
and
had the redesigned aircraft and pre-formed parts approved as a kit in
Australia.
This, I feel, is a great step forward in the evolution of our wonderful
So I conducted some tests.
++
Well set up exercise with positive and tangible results - thanks Dan.
Steve J
Mark I hope you have an engine driven pump as well!!
If not what happens when you've run one tank dry,
I like Mark's approach. My installation will add one more pump rigged
to transfer fuel either way. Then all the fuel is available even if one
primary delivery pump and the
and shut down the left engine on the Beech Baron we
were in trying to be a smart *** since the hydraulics were on that side
..
. this dummy never read the maintenance report prior to take off
where it clearly stated that this bird had a bad problem and wouldn't
restart left engine.
Some time ago someone gave me a box of stuff that had belonged to
someone that was no longer around. I understand that the old timer
spent his time restoring old British airplanes - mainly wood (Tiger Moth
and Chipmunk?). I was the only airplane guy they knew, so rather than
toss it out, it came
I've seen him fly well over 1300 pounds (and heard of 1400 lbs), AND
register 6g's on his g-meter, all in the same flight.
+
Do we know if he built a stock spar? RAF 48 I presume?
Steve J
That is much more accurate than just adjusting the scales to read
zero then expecting them to be accurate at 250 pounds.
Water is a relatively accurate "known" weight for calibration purposes.
Steve J
Don't forget, most laminates (such as plywood) are stronger as compared
to a solid peice of wood the same thickness because of the different
grain orientations.
+++
I also believe this - so here is a question for the knowledgeable among
us:
How about making up wing spar caps out
Just to clear up my mind Are you saying that if you paint PVA
release agent onto a layup on V/E or P/E resin it will make it dry
better??
V/E does have drying problems, it stays tacky for some time,
Does PVA help this.
PE and VE resins exude a gum to the surface
The more I read about the KR-2S the more it grows on me. However, I
have also read that, like the VP-2, it makes a better fat single seater
than a
cruiser for 2 adults.
+
Hi Sean
I have been through the very same thought process and frustrations for a
year now - including spending
... for a low-wing monoplane such as the KR, a starting point would be
to use 18% and 34% of MAC. For a wing with a 48" MAC, that is roughly
8-1/2" to 16-1/2" aft of leading edge .
+++
When someone starts asking questions about CG location, he or she may be
pretty
I guess that, more than anything, I was trying to figure out how Rand
and Robinson arrived at their published CG range
+++
Hey Oscar
I found it interesting that your extrapolation came out within 1/2" of
the RR numbers - almost as it they had also ignored the influence of the
Hi Gavin
Nice pictures.
What type of foam are you using on the outer panels, it looks relatively
light coloured - almost white?
Take care
Steve
The previous owner had to cut the plane behind the cockpit to get it
out of his garage, and I wonder if someone has some views on the
best way to join the two parts.
+
Andy
You are on thin ice here, but the airplane can be joined without any
hassles provided it is done properly.
I am starting to feel a whole lot better about the fuel prices in Zambia
(Africa).
About the same as BC - hovers around US$1.00 per liter - maybe 0.05 one
way or the other - close to $4/ US gal.
Car fuel is generally about the same as Avgas, so no point in bothering.
Steve J
Larry F = and had the prop off to rotate one bolt hole
++
Why Larry?
Easier hand starting is all I can think of?
Steve J
There are some pictures on my web site. Easy installation ( I did not
say inexpensive).
Hi Bernard
What is the blue plug that is visible on edge of the landing gear leg?
Thanks
Steve J
For $100 extra Grove will drill the brake hydraulic line/passageway
(gundrill) through the gear legs...makes for a neat setup.
+++
Thanks Bernard. Never knew about gundrilling before so I had a quick
look around the web - amazing equipment, I am pleased that I now know
about it
Silicones have to be the worst, seems that you can wash whatever the
part
may be till the cows come home and there will still be a small amount
left
behind to screw up an otherwise perfect job.
++
I learnt all about this when some idiot picked up my "clean cloth" to
shine up his
he has posted one of the pictures of his KR/Corvair variant on the Jan.
5 "open email" page on his website
+
Hey Oscar
I have been staring at this that for a whole day now - looks good, but I
don't see the KR connection - looks more like a fold-a-plane approach.
Can you cast any
In other words, it seems like William is building a Vision that
looks like a KR and powering it with a Corvair.
+++
Thanks Oscar
All of a big sudden 1 + 1 = 2.
I am a big fan of Steve Rahm - just that I am not comfortable with
composites. (it's an age thing).
There is (was?)
Probably more information than you wanted to know.
-Jeff
On the contrary - this is the most informative (and informed) answer I
have seen to this question - thank you.
Steve J
Did you sand or file all rib and bulkhead edges lightly? Have the
plywood edges of the cantilever spar been chamfered?
I noted this statement in his article on ply skinning.
I can only assume that this is some form of stress relief or riser
avoidance - can anyone
And if you believe that, then Santa Claus is no stretch of the
imagination
either!
I have the pictures - and it is flying, 2 VW motors /fixed pitch
propellers.
If anyone with a web site would like to post these photos, let me know
and I will forward.
Have a great festive
I just wonder what the wind chill was behind the prop while I was doing
that... I spent six hours out in the cold with my plane today and am
very close to being ready for that first flight.
++
A brave man indeed Mr. Jones. I am excited for you and looking fwd to
your first
Phillip, I'll probably be judged a pi$$ poor pilot with my hair on fire
but
in the Bonanza, I routinely ran the aft tank dry
+++
After reading the AvWeb article years ago, I took to doing exactly this
on my PA32. This airplane (single) has 84 gal spread over 4 tanks - so
No big deal, but a thought that may be maybe worth expressing.
My concern with pre-fab wing skins (any wing skins) is the quality of
bond with the spars.
We need to remember that the airplane is literally being picked up by
the skin of its wings (well 2/3 of it is). That may not translate to a
Jeez guys - never wanted to start a big issue here, just felt it
important to stress the importance of the skin /spar bond - it has
killed a few folks and it will probably kill a few more. I would be
happy if I can do something to prevent just one future accident.
I considered leaving it alone,
I had an interesting email (off-net) from one of the fellow netters -
thank you sir.
I have been around since 1949 so I am aware of most broad strains of
rationale regarding wing lift (and then some). When we get down to
brass tacks and sort through the 10-100, most of the various hypotheses
well I really don't care, as long as the plane fly's
+++
I agree - that is what counts.
Have a great week
Steve J
I say do the preliminary W before making any changes, because,
otherwise,
you will just be guessing.
+
You can always get some idea of the CG location by seeing where it
actually balances.
Don't poke any holes in the bottom wing skins, but gently resting it on
two trestles will
What are your thoughts on having two bolt patterns on the same prop?
+
Stop stalling (and muttering about the weather)- go fly that airplane
and give us the KR grin. (and Ye Ha)
Happy Friday guys
Mr. Langford (alias Flinkdink, AKA long ranger), please straighten us
out on the above topic.
My KR2 plans have only 2 wing sections, both RAF48 - one is 48" chord
(for the centre section) and the other is 36" for the tip.
According to my plans, these are the final dimensions
Ashok designed that airfoil specifically for the KR2S
++
Thank you - it has now finally sunk in that there is a bit more to the
2S than a fuselage stretch, I had better get the supplement.
Take care
Steve J
You 2S guys please adjust my thinking if I am wrong.
The 2S is not any different than the 2, just Stretched. Certainly not
the
airfoil.
+
That is what I thought and you are mostly correct Dan, but I gather from
Mark L that the wing plan form is also subtly different. (Tip
Doe's anybody have an email ad or ph# for Todds canopy Thanks Bill
Email: bsilve...@aol.com
Cell # : 954-579-0874
Web URL: http://kgarden.com/todd/types.htm
What's the common thinking about making the main spar one piece?
+++
I share your discomfort here John, plus a few others. I accept that the
KR spar is stronger than a brick outhouse and there have been no
reported failures etc. etc. It still worries me.
As ever, I express
a flap that starts at the fuselage and extends outboard of the stub
wing. This creates the potential for some very effective flaps.
+
One of the primary idea's behind the bent spar is to move the WAF's
OUTWARDS. The centre section is then one-piece (canting up for the
dihedral
The designer during the design and structural analysis process considers
the
holes, both locations and diameters, and load being applied to determine
the
final size requirements.
To continue the design process of the spars, the designer determines the
landing gear strut load conditions.
but you're gonna lose an engine >on takeoff."
++
Brilliant
Take care and good luck
Be a real devil and beat Flinkdink to the blue yonder
Hi Don
With reference to the "Specs and Mods" comment on your web site:
In the narrative you mention a stretch of 5" fwd and 6" aft for a total
of 11" over the KR2S - thus a new length of 16'11".
Your root chord is 4" greater (48 to 52) so maybe another inch or so in
the distance between the
All that Mr. Irwin did was to point out the reality to
us.
Everythi8ng that has been said regarding the legitimacy of price control
etc. is valid and true.
What Mr. Irwin did was to intercept privileged information on this site
and drop one of the members (and his supplier)
Anyone not sure how wide to make the boat?
It is generally accepted that the standard KR cockpit is just not wide
enough at 34". I am a relatively "wide" guy, so I read everything I
could find, particularly the opinions of the guys that were already
flying their airplanes. I also noted what
Morning Mark
I guess you are into the sort strokes right now, so stay focussed and
make plenty to-do-lists - don't rely on memory for anything.
When you have a spare moment;
>From your rudder pedal construction page:
Quote - The angle which serves as half of the pivot was bonded to the
back of
A visit to Eduardo's website is worth the time.
http://www.kr2-egb.com.ar/ He is building an amazing plane.
Exceptionally nice website too. I can see why you get so excited about
it.
++
I tell ya Frank - if I could just get my mind around this dissimilar
stiffness thing. According
If anyone has the weight data, I would appreciate it.
+++
Eduardo reports 6.2kg (13.64lbs) with a NACA 63a008 and the plans style
hinges
they are reduced and compressed by an average factor of 120x, so the
slow modem guys won't choke on them
Thank you Mark - highly motivating
What a treat it must be to actually be around these folks and airplanes.
I think Eduardo's idea is the strongest, incorporating the best of both
construction methods.
This could help keep ones cost down if wood is hard to get
++
Acceptable grade plywood is a problem for me - Eduardo's method really
appealed to me as a cost effective solution that
Steve, below is a message I sent to KRnet about 5 years ago .
After my new ones were built (they were lighter anyway because of a
little design change) I started wondering how strong the old ones were,
and tested them to failure. The glue joint isn't where the caps
separated...
You worry me when you say it is not good !!!
who is zeke Smith
+
Hey Ron - As the man always says, your results may differ.
I discussed my concerns with Eduardo (this took some time as he speaks
Spanish and I speak English). He certainly is a bright guy and appears
Hi Doug
I really like Eduardo's way of making a KR fuse and it would suite me
just fine to see things the same way you do. I would like to start my
project in January and this is one of the few outstanding issues. I
cannot imagine anything worse that looking at a complete fuselage or
wing etc.
Building airplanes is like raising a family. By the time you are
finished, you have finally figured out how to do it right.
That's why grandparents are so neat!!
++
Oh so very wise - thank you Jimbo
I will make a plaque with those words (for when I am a gramps)
Have a great
Anyone out there with plans or ideas on blowing your own canopy?
The general recommendations tendered on this topic so far are probably
the best advice - go buy one. However for those that really want to
make everything or have an abnormal requirement (like my 44" width) -
Welcome back Herr Langford
What secret bits did you smuggle back for the Sirocco?
The following extract from your construction pages (tail feathers):
The tapered spars were created on the tablesaw with the same tapering
fixture that the newletter printed a few years back. Simply put, it's a
I'll type Ray Allen into a search engine and see what I can find
http://rayallencompany.com/index.html
Brian Kraut pointed me to a distributor for discount carbon fiber. The
are
offering 282 5.8oz CF in 60" width for $12.50/yard.
++
Can you please pass on the suppliers contact details /web address
Thanks
Steve J
how and who came up with this rule? Is there any science behind it?
No science at all, only BS.
Most netters already know this, but just in case ..
If the aircraft weighs 900lb, then 1G (gravity) is 900lbs.
The rated load factor of 7G means the relevant part of the
Hi Joe
As Scott says - many of the lads are on their way to the 2004 gathering.
In the interim, the sites that proved very valuable and interesting for
me:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/
http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage
My guess is that the cost of the Rotax may be a big reason they are not
popular in Krs leaning towards the VW or a Corvair
conversion.
+++
Yikes - I see what you mean - $14k for 100hp.
I really like the Corvair, it has (I think) all the characteristics of a
very
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