KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

Craig, Why do I have to sign in to see KR stuff ? Virg


On 4/30/2016 5:54 PM, Craig Williams via KRnet wrote:
> Hope this link works.  I used a SS mud pan from Home Depot on my Smith.
>
> Craig.
>
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1058479134173264=pcb.1279813942035991=3
>
>
>> On April 30, 2016 at 10:55 AM Paul Visk via KRnet 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
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KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[John Martindale]

Hi Paul

I'm curious. How did you manage to flare those short lengths of AN6 tube 
between the pumps etc and still get the fittings on?or am I missing 
something here.

Cheers John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul Visk via 
KRnet
Sent: Sunday, 1 May 2016 12:56 AM
To: KR EMAIL BOARD
Cc: Paul Visk
Subject: Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?





Paul ViskBelleville Il 618 406 4705 

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 6.
Pete,  Here's a picture of my firewall with my primary and backup Facet pumps 
all with AN  fittings.  Along with my gascator, fuel pressure and fuel flow 
transmitters. The idea came from the Sonex's Corvair engine installation 
manual.  With this installation there is no pressure ice fuel in the cotpit.  
Paul Visk Belleville Il 618 406 4705 . 
The Facet is part 40108 and is made 3/8" flared and also AN-6.
The Earl's fuel filters are part number 230106 and are AN-6.

The Facet AN-6 is made for the racing world. Here is a link where you can 
get the AN-6 Facets:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=84


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI





Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected to fuel 
lines using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet and he "thought 
they were a 45 deg SAE flare" as they only made fuel pumps for automotive 
use. Had you had any leaks or problems using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you 
alter the AN fittings to 45 deg?Pete

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Jeff Scott]

Wow!  That's a lot of metal plumbing in front of the firewall.  That stuff 
loves to absorb and transfer heat.  Putting the pumps in front of the firewall 
where they are exposed to heat is inviting vapor lock at the pumps, which can 
cause engine stoppage with no recovery until it cools down.  I went through 
this scenario helping a builder with a Sonex that seemed to be always on the 
edge of vapor lock.  The solution was to fabricate a box around all those metal 
components, open on the bottom for the cooling air to exit, then add a NACA 
scoop to the side of the lower cowl to supply cooling air to the box.

We put a thermocouple on the gascolator before and after this mod.  Before 
adding the cooling box to the fuel components in front of the firewall, the 
gascolator was measured at 180?F during flight.  That is warm enough to boil 
the fuel and cause a vapor lock.  After adding the cooling box to the fuel 
components, the gascolator always measured within 10? of ambient air temp.

I am assuming you were already planning to cool these components, so am 
pointing this out as a potential safety issue for others that may want to put 
all those components on the front side of the firewall.

I had friend that destroyed his E-AB aircraft when it vapor locked.  When he 
was taxiing for take off with the engine hot following a previous flight, the 
fuel pressure dropped and the engine was running rough, so he flipped on the 
boost pump to restore pressure.  The fuel pressure came back up to normal and 
the engine smoothed out, so he figured it was a vapor lock issue and would 
clear up once the engine got good airflow in the air.  The problem is that his 
boost pump was also mounted in front of the firewall without any heat shielding 
or cooling air supplied.  He made it to around 400' altitude before the heat 
saturated boost pump started cavitating as it also vapor locked.  The engine 
quit forcing a landing on a road.  He hit the power lines over the road first 
and had a less than stellar landing causing significant damage to his aircraft.

It's worth noting that Piper put the boost pump and gascolator in front of the 
firewall on the PA-38 and the later PA-28 aircraft.  In both cases, those 
components are mounted with a shield between the fuel components and the rest 
of the engine compartment and a small NACA scoop supplying air to the fuel 
components.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM
?

Sent:?Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 8:55 AM
From:?"Paul Visk via KRnet" 
To:?"KR EMAIL BOARD" 
Cc:?"Paul Visk" 
Subject:?Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?



Paul ViskBelleville Il?618 406 4705?

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 6.
Pete, ?Here's a picture of my firewall with my primary and backup Facet pumps 
all with AN ?fittings. ?Along with my gascator, fuel pressure and fuel flow 
transmitters.?The idea came from the Sonex's Corvair engine installation 
manual. ?With this installation there is no pressure ice fuel in the cotpit. ?
Paul Visk?Belleville Il?618 406 4705?.?
The Facet is part 40108 and is made 3/8" flared and also AN-6.
The Earl's fuel filters are part number 230106 and are AN-6.

The Facet AN-6 is made for the racing world. Here is a link where you can
get the AN-6 Facets:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=84


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Paul Visk]

John, ?what you are looking at is a ?Female Swivel couper p/n ?SC606 from 
Wicks. ??Jeff, ?Yes I was planning on putting a box over it and feed fresh air 
to it with a scat hose. ?The temperatures you came up with are very 
interesting. ?

Paul ViskBelleville Il?618 406 4705?

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 6.
 Original message From: John Martindale via KRnet  Date: 4/30/16  5:02 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 'KRnet'  Cc: John Martindale  Subject: 
Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare? 
Hi Paul

I'm curious. How did you manage to flare those short lengths of AN6 tube 
between the pumps etc and still get the fittings on?or am I missing 
something here.

Cheers John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul Visk via 
KRnet
Sent: Sunday, 1 May 2016 12:56 AM
To: KR EMAIL BOARD
Cc: Paul Visk
Subject: Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?





Paul ViskBelleville Il 618 406 4705 

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 6.
Pete,? Here's a picture of my firewall with my primary and backup Facet pumps 
all with AN? fittings.? Along with my gascator, fuel pressure and fuel flow 
transmitters. The idea came from the Sonex's Corvair engine installation 
manual.? With this installation there is no pressure ice fuel in the cotpit.? 
Paul Visk Belleville Il 618 406 4705 . 
The Facet is part 40108 and is made 3/8" flared and also AN-6.
The Earl's fuel filters are part number 230106 and are AN-6.

The Facet AN-6 is made for the racing world. Here is a link where you can 
get the AN-6 Facets:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=84


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI





Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected to fuel 
lines using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet and he "thought 
they were a 45 deg SAE flare" as they only made fuel pumps for automotive 
use. Had you had any leaks or problems using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you 
alter the AN fittings to 45 deg?Pete



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KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Craig Williams]

Hope this link works.  I used a SS mud pan from Home Depot on my Smith.

Craig.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1058479134173264=pcb.1279813942035991=3


> On April 30, 2016 at 10:55 AM Paul Visk via KRnet 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Larry Flesner]

At 01:11 PM 4/30/2016, you wrote:
>Wow!  That's a lot of metal plumbing in front of the firewall.  That 
>stuff loves to absorb and transfer heat.
+

My only fuel component on the firewall , other than the hoses, is the 
gascolator.  I have it "boxed" with forced air cooling.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8085.jpg


Larry Flesner 

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Paul Visk]

Paul ViskBelleville Il?618 406 4705?

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 6.
Pete, ?Here's a picture of my firewall with my primary and backup Facet pumps 
all with AN ?fittings. ?Along with my gascator, fuel pressure and fuel flow 
transmitters.?The idea came from the Sonex's Corvair engine installation 
manual. ?With this installation there is no pressure ice fuel in the cotpit. ?
Paul Visk?Belleville Il?618 406 4705?.?
The Facet is part 40108 and is made 3/8" flared and also AN-6.
The Earl's fuel filters are part number 230106 and are AN-6.

The Facet AN-6 is made for the racing world. Here is a link where you can 
get the AN-6 Facets:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=84


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI





Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected to fuel 
lines using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet and he "thought 
they were a 45 deg SAE flare" as they only made fuel pumps for automotive 
use. Had you had any leaks or problems using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you 
alter the AN fittings to 45 deg?Pete

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KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Jeff Scott]

If you read the Q under the Facet Pumps on the AS Web site, it states that 
the 40108 model has an AN-6 male flare fitting.  

-Jeff Scott
-

Sent:?Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 7:55 AM
From:?"brian.kraut--- via KRnet" 
To:?KRnet 
Cc:?brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com
Subject:?Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?
Spruce catalog used to list one that specifically said it had the AN
flare. Those are the ones I always used. They don't give that much
detail on the web site.


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?
From: Dan Heath via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sat, April 23, 2016 4:28 am
To: "'KRnet'" 
Cc: Dan Heath 

I have hooked up many facet pumps on both my first and second KR2. I
always
used the standard AN flared tube or AN fittings and they all fit
perfectly.
I bought my facets from either Wicks or AS, but I am not sure that would
matter at all.

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Dan Heath]

I have hooked up many facet pumps on both my first and second KR2.  I always
used the standard AN flared tube or AN fittings and they all fit perfectly.
I bought my facets from either Wicks or AS, but I am not sure that would
matter at all.



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2016 KR Gathering - Mt. Vernon, Ill.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

Spruce catalog used to list one that specifically said it had the AN
flare.  Those are the ones I always used.  They don't give that much
detail on the web site.


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?
From: Dan Heath via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sat, April 23, 2016 4:28 am
To: "'KRnet'" 
Cc: Dan Heath 

I have hooked up many facet pumps on both my first and second KR2. I
always
used the standard AN flared tube or AN fittings and they all fit
perfectly.
I bought my facets from either Wicks or AS, but I am not sure that would
matter at all.



See N64KR at <http://krbuilder.org/> http://KRBuilder.org - Then click
on
the pics 



2016 KR Gathering - Mt. Vernon, Ill.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC







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change options

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Mark Jones]

The Facet is part 40108 and is made 3/8" flared and also AN-6.
The Earl's fuel filters are part number 230106 and are AN-6.

The Facet AN-6 is made for the racing world. Here is a link where you can 
get the AN-6 Facets:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=84


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI

E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

-Original Message- 
From: Pete Klapp via KRnet
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:59 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: Pete Klapp
Subject: KR> Facet fuel pump flare?




Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected to fuel 
lines using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet and he "thought 
they were a 45 deg SAE flare" as they only made fuel pumps for automotive 
use. Had you had any leaks or problems using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you 
alter the AN fittings to 45 deg?Pete

___
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KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Larry Flesner]

At 01:55 PM 4/20/2016, you wrote:
>Pete Klapp wrote:
>
> > Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected 
> to fuel lines using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet 
> and he "thought they were a 45 deg SAE flare" as they only made 
> fuel pumps for automotive use. Had you had any leaks or problems 
> using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you alter the AN fittings to 45 deg?<
+

The pumps at 
A.S. 
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php?clickkey=9133#review_tab
 
appear to have a threaded fitting that would take whichever flair 
fitting you intend to use.  A quick phone call to A.S. would answer 
the question.  You simply pick the NPT you want and the min/max 
pressures you want.  Just make sure your flaring tool matches your fittings.

Larry Flesner  

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[Pete Klapp]

Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected to fuel lines 
using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet and he "thought they were a 
45 deg SAE flare" as they only made fuel pumps for automotive use. Had you had 
any leaks or problems using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you alter the AN 
fittings to 45 deg?Pete

KR> Facet fuel pump flare?

[ml at n56ml.com]

Pete Klapp wrote:

> Mark Your fuel system page shows your Facet fuel pumps connected to fuel 
> lines using AN fittings. I spoke with a "tech?" at Facet and he "thought they 
> were a 45 deg SAE flare" as they only made fuel pumps for automotive use. Had 
> you had any leaks or problems using the 37 deg AN fittings? Did you alter the 
> AN fittings to 45 deg?<

I'm pretty sure they are 37 degree fittings.  I think the part number is
shown on the diagram at http://www.n56ml.com/fuel/index.html , 40108.
You probably got this from the chart at 
 http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php , where the picture
doesn't match the pump...it shows NPT female threads, and the
description only says "3/8 flare", but it's 37 degrees for sure.  He's
probably thinking SAE brake lines.  If I go to the airport today I will
verify it...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML "at" N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com