Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
2013/12/2 Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com Hi Mirosław, Le 02/12/2013 18:37, Mirosław Zalewski a écrit : Why do I say that? Because these are the reasons that makes me not believe in success of this initiative. Translating LibreOffice was ungrateful in the past and I think that this time it will not only be enormous task, but also no one will say thank you and in few months someone will carelessly waste all that has been accomplished. Something I don't agree with you: nobody will do that carelessly. Don't think that if a mistake has been done it was on purpose or by being careless.(...) I'm alone to translate the FR version and have very very few 'thank you' from the FR community, but never mind, I do this work for the project itself, not for one community ;) Really Sophie? So how do you feel with fact that we are translating Sidebar second time? Michael Meeks committed Sidebar code to 4.1 branch at the last moment and on mailing list he wrote: I anticipate all manner of problems with it. ( source: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-what-to-do-with-AOO-Sidebar-experimental-feature-in-libreoffice-4-1-master-and-the-4-h-td4057181.html). This piece of functionality was hidden from users, so developers gave us extra job to do, though it was unneeded. Half year later they convert Sidebar to Widget Layout and now we must do our work again. When we lost common sense? Perhaps no one did not it on purpose, but this style of developing software is not correct, I think. And en-US team need glossary, surely. I see many inconsistent phrases like *Please consider restart LibreOffice* to set new features. Ps. LibreOffice is just another tool. The better way is work for some people, not for things. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com And en-US team need glossary, surely. I see many inconsistent phrases like *Please consider restart LibreOffice* to set new features. S..what's the best way for me to identify and squash bugs in strings like this? Should I just keep an eye on core.git? Perhaps look at the compiled list of strings? Thanks, --R -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com And en-US team need glossary, surely. I see many inconsistent phrases like *Please consider restart LibreOffice* to set new features. S..what's the best way for me to identify and squash bugs in strings like this? Should I just keep an eye on core.git? Perhaps look at the compiled list of strings? During alpha and beta testing, and during translation process dozens of people read en-US strings. Some people report typo bugs either in Bugzilla, or in e-mail, and those bugs are fixed within hours. I don't think we need to set up processes, e.g. formal review, UI committee, approval, etc -- we had these in old OOo era -- , just we need to exercise the many eyeballs principle better. It is better to report a typo multiple times, than never. Cheers, Andras -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Hi Andras, Le 05/12/2013 11:42, Andras Timar a écrit : On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com And en-US team need glossary, surely. I see many inconsistent phrases like *Please consider restart LibreOffice* to set new features. S..what's the best way for me to identify and squash bugs in strings like this? Should I just keep an eye on core.git? Perhaps look at the compiled list of strings? During alpha and beta testing, and during translation process dozens of people read en-US strings. Some people report typo bugs either in Bugzilla, or in e-mail, and those bugs are fixed within hours. I don't think we need to set up processes, e.g. formal review, UI committee, approval, etc -- we had these in old OOo era -- , just we need to exercise the many eyeballs principle better. It is better to report a typo multiple times, than never. I agree about no need for formal review, processes etc. However there is a need for a check of the quality of the en_US version, per the original request from Olivier. And it is really time consuming and error prone for localizers to not rely on a clear and understandable explanation or when several strings are used for the same dialog, button, action, etc. Of course, for the typo etc, during the translation time, no problem to rely on the l10n team to correct them (and thank you for fixing so fast), but that does not solve the problem of the overall quality of the en_US version. And I know that I don't propose any satisfying solution for developers or localizers :) /me still thinking about it. Cheers Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Hi, I agree with Sophie on this, some kind of overall check. Since there are tools like LanguageTool maybe there is a way to automatize this: 1) set a local LT server 2) serve all LO strings with identifiers for later reference without the XML and other tags to LT server and log all errors reported (including spell-checking ones) 3) manually go through errors reported and extract only reported errors that represent a true error 4) native speakers suggest changes 5) if necessary, the proposed changes are checked by a team of non-techie native speakers 6) fix the errors as proposed in 4) and as confirmed in 5) I see this a process that could be finished in a release cycle, i.e. for the next release (be it 4.3 or whatever). I am not sure but - maybe this is feasible - can we automize the LT-check via its server of any strings changed in the code when checking it in (at least that found errors are part of the log of check-in, so it can be later parsed and checked en-masse by native speakers)? This way all string check-ins/changes after the full cleanup (steps 1-6) would be monitored. Probably this is science fiction. Lp, m. 2013/12/5 Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com Hi Andras, Le 05/12/2013 11:42, Andras Timar a écrit : On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com And en-US team need glossary, surely. I see many inconsistent phrases like *Please consider restart LibreOffice* to set new features. S..what's the best way for me to identify and squash bugs in strings like this? Should I just keep an eye on core.git? Perhaps look at the compiled list of strings? During alpha and beta testing, and during translation process dozens of people read en-US strings. Some people report typo bugs either in Bugzilla, or in e-mail, and those bugs are fixed within hours. I don't think we need to set up processes, e.g. formal review, UI committee, approval, etc -- we had these in old OOo era -- , just we need to exercise the many eyeballs principle better. It is better to report a typo multiple times, than never. I agree about no need for formal review, processes etc. However there is a need for a check of the quality of the en_US version, per the original request from Olivier. And it is really time consuming and error prone for localizers to not rely on a clear and understandable explanation or when several strings are used for the same dialog, button, action, etc. Of course, for the typo etc, during the translation time, no problem to rely on the l10n team to correct them (and thank you for fixing so fast), but that does not solve the problem of the overall quality of the en_US version. And I know that I don't propose any satisfying solution for developers or localizers :) /me still thinking about it. Cheers Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Hi :) +1 It certainly seems that way. However it also seems that the number of troublesome strings is remarkably small. People do sometimes post such strings to this list and various people are here ready to discuss what they think it means. Although some it it might look quite rough it seems to be sufficiently obvious what is intended in most strings so the number of posts to this list is remarkably small. The documentation team would probably find it too tough to help with anything like this. It's too technical and they can't handle any type of coding such as tags or anything. Recently they began to be able to edit wikis but that is mostly thanks to the efforts of a couple of people from the translators team joining their team and showing that it's really not as tough as they imagined. On the other hand a couple of native English speakers have joined this L10n mailing list and have been learning bitsbobs. Still, we are not very code at handling strings with coding in them but are becoming more familiar with it as we see it more often. So, please be gentle with us and until we become more familiar with all this please post strings or, even better, entire paragraphs and we can try to let you know what we think. There was such a thread a few days ago but i got a bit muddled and other people were giving better answers anyway. Feel free to post more! Btw i am never sure about what people mean by Office these days. When i say it, i mean LibreOffice. If someone uses it to mean MS Office then i usually have to ask them which version because there are so many inconsistencies between the different versions. With LibreOfice it seldom matters which version. Regards from Tom :) On 2 December 2013 11:39, Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello As translator for LibreOffice since 2003, I often see less than optimal english strings to translate and I believe other translators also has the perception that the original english can be improved (other than typos). Although the origin of the english strings are from the developers, and they are focused in producing code and fixing bugs more than writing beautiful english, it may be necessary that we - the community and in a continuous process - start reviewing the linguistics in english. Se for example the use of buttons that has ellipsis (...) as string. What is the meaning of the ellipsis? It may vary a lot depending on the context: it can open a file, open a new dialog, expand an current active dialog, etc... For the layman, the ellipsis can go unoticed quite often. So, for example, my plea is to replace ellipsis (...) by some more meaningful string as More..., Browse..., Open..., etc... Many more strings should be reviewed because often the english language can be extremely concise, word-saving, often dubious, and put translators into trouble to find the exact meaning of the feature. That may be an easy hack, or even a task for a skilled non-programmer linguist, sort of transtating en-US to en-Intelligible... Kind regards Note: I am often challenged by transation of features done in Office, and for my personal evil satisfaction, I am happy to see they also miss the target completely. :-) - -- Olivier Hallot Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese +55-21-8822-8812 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSnHGCAAoJEJp3R7nH3vLxtGwH/24iw19q1+i0iZdyTCILsWlm WB71UdMhsxfqOnkeUetPSROcDfnLjKLzvN0D55Hggc51yTA55sAQeqRbIsjcG4hp sDSxQYxG+1X1IG7Ds9j1KRspJfAUqmTOM9mUv2GxHhEzZWU1vPiybo6mJAeQWbMQ 5Ni/KZpGZfjAT1lv5/ZRtFy0UZstJZdI0BxfYOB+x4bVk+GidzpHhro6zVWv7wt6 sfbit3K4zndTJg0soY7QZ8U0QDqWLj/3XWwakEoBfCwHFs01UIw2YfDMTsvF8HRp lqO8g46pd8yPHzEKJ0piukB3zFkD/LiZafVD+GjY05CtDGJbdVWt8353zL9wAHU= =ah+Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Le 02/12/2013 12:39, Olivier Hallot a écrit : Hello As translator for LibreOffice since 2003, I often see less than optimal english strings to translate and I believe other translators also has the perception that the original english can be improved (other than typos). Although the origin of the english strings are from the developers, and they are focused in producing code and fixing bugs more than writing beautiful english, it may be necessary that we - the community and in a continuous process - start reviewing the linguistics in english. Yes, and not only for localization sake, but also for the quality of the en_US version. There is several menus/dialogs where camel case is not used, where the '' character is used, where ellipsis are not useful, where Tab/Pane/Deck are used for the same, etc. I thought that Glade would bring more quality but what is missing the most is maybe a referential glossary for developers (or they have one that should be updated maybe). Se for example the use of buttons that has ellipsis (...) as string. What is the meaning of the ellipsis? It may vary a lot depending on the context: it can open a file, open a new dialog, expand an current active dialog, etc... For the layman, the ellipsis can go unoticed quite often. So, for example, my plea is to replace ellipsis (...) by some more meaningful string as More..., Browse..., Open..., etc... Many more strings should be reviewed because often the english language can be extremely concise, word-saving, often dubious, and put translators into trouble to find the exact meaning of the feature. That may be an easy hack, or even a task for a skilled non-programmer linguist, sort of transtating en-US to en-Intelligible... Yes, you're right and Glade should ease the task here because all the dialogs are in the same place and easy to review one by one. But for me the first task would be to set a referential glossary or update it if it exists already. Cheers Sophie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSnHsrAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNLqkIAOzCFm0nEfqp2/J1ix2RLnud UD5BYvNtirE8P35hzbymNPfcvWr5612Jg0B5a5zHi3J4HH6+JjoUSwbLFqUBVlIt 8Ok8F7bru6DZ2uPx++hL1nBt1Xyr0wWLW1ZP9W8AetJDIu7/Xvxl+hsbxdlL6y/9 zEfQWOXpDSv1kszBZRtNQNIXpNVKlXKrFSwadB9lP3DudEnITiTrpXYjhV86XYtG zoZDI85DXL57tV9yPuz3xIeuiWHa5o/1Xin7xemrKViqxgIl6+aJpsZPKXuF7IiO oQ7UIOfX8pxRRdh1bblSNQFCH7tbxvolEOz8f19KHXEkD2Q5F+t7WjYvuIhj95g= =RMnY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Sophie, Em 02-12-2013 10:21, Sophie escreveu: I thought that Glade would bring more quality but what is missing the most is maybe a referential glossary for developers (or they have one that should be updated maybe). Although a good idea in theory, I don't think developers will spend time checking the glossary. But yes, the glossary should be reviewed for linguistic harmonization. I think this is a job for a skilled linguistic community individual (with ideally a very good knowledge of technology, engineering, statistics, printing industry, DBA, mathematics, book editing, digital design, image processing...). Kind regards - -- Olivier Hallot Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese +55-21-8822-8812 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSnIV3AAoJEJp3R7nH3vLxcCQH/3fsGZspBouCJIUXcUC3sGtN 8fOmh8oz1vfPvAhDS64JaAsf2reegYZ4eDp/GkN7PuZMcx8piCB+acvL5vBgeOCq FwfaoGWl6C+svVUrfnr9NumEGgvsEjyb5NY5A5Zla3f12OGw/807HZOF+W5MUxP7 P1hdw6Njn4bQ64Ui1tBZbAoRyFmB+0yogN4owDYbKhEoySRZ8RZDb0yECZ4KjT9n ko7j703uQeH+JydtiB0/8LBE+gGSdtyKD45v81CnZHm8fhlPcuH12hOqzMDMtBrL JlveieKXfOnvn0MLI5RMXcDngVkH9E09ukys3FD6MVaunTPirrOvY+BOGsIMu7I= =ruG0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Olivier, Le 02/12/2013 14:04, Olivier Hallot a écrit : Hi Sophie, Em 02-12-2013 10:21, Sophie escreveu: I thought that Glade would bring more quality but what is missing the most is maybe a referential glossary for developers (or they have one that should be updated maybe). Although a good idea in theory, I don't think developers will spend time checking the glossary. But yes, the glossary should be reviewed for linguistic harmonization. Not the developer, but the person reviewing the en_US version. I think this is a job for a skilled linguistic community individual (with ideally a very good knowledge of technology, engineering, statistics, printing industry, DBA, mathematics, book editing, digital design, image processing...). One can get the knowledge or at least the understanding during the development of the functionnality, I mean no need to know everything before :) Just like us, for example, since last month I've enhanced my trendlines and data flows knowledge ;) Kind regards Sophie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSnJJPAAoJEJRaC8j6sATNxjcH/0qlg4xFDdQGbVVNgd4q4+XH O5cNR/8EvZvpkfC1esvdh6P9K6i0hhhN5dOhSqGeqSaHeVKuYa66pLPeosXgdPGp Tg4uK1ZXMXG8p7kkSUm9VJaYuXnlODK446DO0Ur66OeM6FH7dsnJMQbi2dJls2ga gKuUcF+5jXKgDQkWPJqey5BFdEtaVxAfI6z6h9QW3J4YcbKI+Y+9iM3XWXuA8+5Y LowdySk1fSZ5PzNILy+UEZEoKGSWPDqje35ximAgXBOgmU1NBqIvkDvWSzW83MWp ZrwUWGq+XSjL7Xq5NXviD300N+2PuMtmN2OYmSHU8RCiuSsjcqmD2q1dKyQjdOM= =hTJq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Dnia 2013-12-02, o godz. 09:39:49 Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org napisał(a): Although the origin of the english strings are from the developers, and they are focused in producing code and fixing bugs more than writing beautiful english, it may be necessary that we - the community and in a continuous process - start reviewing the linguistics in english. Three months ago I have asked similar question here. Precisely: what to do with English string that could be improved[0]? I got few other suggestions on how to improve that string, but nothing was done. Also, Polish translation is periodically changed without our knowledge and consent. Last time I remember someone has superseded all Liczba with Ilość (first one is for countable, second for uncountable; it's like changing many to much in English). There were some releases that embarrass Polish translation team before we have learned about this change. Why do I say that? Because these are the reasons that makes me not believe in success of this initiative. Translating LibreOffice was ungrateful in the past and I think that this time it will not only be enormous task, but also no one will say thank you and in few months someone will carelessly waste all that has been accomplished. I don't mean to discourage anyone from helping, but I do know that there are people here that feel the same way. Nevertheless, I wish you best luck and I would love to be proved wrong. [0] http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-l10n-quot-Selection-from-quot-in-Pivot-table-propose-of-changing-English-string-td4072596.html -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Hi Mirosław, Le 02/12/2013 18:37, Mirosław Zalewski a écrit : Dnia 2013-12-02, o godz. 09:39:49 Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org napisał(a): Although the origin of the english strings are from the developers, and they are focused in producing code and fixing bugs more than writing beautiful english, it may be necessary that we - the community and in a continuous process - start reviewing the linguistics in english. Three months ago I have asked similar question here. Precisely: what to do with English string that could be improved[0]? I got few other suggestions on how to improve that string, but nothing was done. That's actually the issue. Andras is helping a lot here, but he is not the one responsible of the en_US version. And I don't think somebody is in fact. Also, Polish translation is periodically changed without our knowledge and consent. Last time I remember someone has superseded all Liczba with Ilość (first one is for countable, second for uncountable; it's like changing many to much in English). There were some releases that embarrass Polish translation team before we have learned about this change. I believe you but I don't know how that can happen. I understand it's really frustrating and that should never happen again. Please tell here if you see some strings changed again, we should seriously investigate this. Why do I say that? Because these are the reasons that makes me not believe in success of this initiative. Translating LibreOffice was ungrateful in the past and I think that this time it will not only be enormous task, but also no one will say thank you and in few months someone will carelessly waste all that has been accomplished. Something I don't agree with you: nobody will do that carelessly. Don't think that if a mistake has been done it was on purpose or by being careless. Also I think that if you don't hear a thank you, be sure that I'm personally thankful to the l10n team to be so patient and for working so hard, that make me specifically proud to be part of this team. And if this can be of help, I'm alone to translate the FR version and have very very few 'thank you' from the FR community, but never mind, I do this work for the project itself, not for one community ;) I don't mean to discourage anyone from helping, but I do know that there are people here that feel the same way. What is important is to try to solve what can be frustrating for us and don't stay whit this frustration. A situation can always be improved but for that we have to know and take action on it. This is Olivier proposal and what we should work on. Same for your issue about changes in the string in Pootle, if it happens again, we have to investigate and correct what went wrong. Nevertheless, I wish you best luck and I would love to be proved wrong. Thanks a lot, same for you and thank you for your participation here :) Cheers Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Although the origin of the english strings are from the developers, and they are focused in producing code and fixing bugs more than writing beautiful english, it may be necessary that we - the community and in a continuous process - start reviewing the linguistics in english. Three months ago I have asked similar question here. Precisely: what to do with English string that could be improved[0]? I got few other suggestions on how to improve that string, but nothing was done. That's actually the issue. Andras is helping a lot here, but he is not the one responsible of the en_US version. And I don't think somebody is in fact. Hmm. Sophie - should we consider spinning-up a community for en_US? I'm not sure I have much time to spend on it right now, but I could perhaps help out a little here and there... Best, --R -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Robinson Tryon wrote: the one responsible of the en_US version. And I don't think somebody is in fact. Hmm. Sophie - should we consider spinning-up a community for en_US? I'm not sure I have much time to spend on it right now, but I could a) Can somebody layout precisely what an en_US l10n team/group/individual would do? b) Is there an existing en_## L10N group that could assume the responsibilities, duties, etc of an en_US L10N group? jonathon -- Sent from the eatiung establishment at the far side of the universe at the begining of time. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Hi Jonathon, Le 02/12/2013 20:22, tk a écrit : Robinson Tryon wrote: the one responsible of the en_US version. And I don't think somebody is in fact. Hmm. Sophie - should we consider spinning-up a community for en_US? I'm not sure I have much time to spend on it right now, but I could a) Can somebody layout precisely what an en_US l10n team/group/individual would do? as, I said, I think the first thing is to have an up to date glossary, then check for the consistency in the menus/dialogs/tabs, check for the Camel case use, check that the good terms are used for the good functions, actions, etc and are consistent with the terms already used. Check that the help buttons leads to help files, check that the help files is up to date, etc. I've more but don't want to frighten you with the tasks ;) b) Is there an existing en_## L10N group that could assume the responsibilities, duties, etc of an en_US L10N group? there is an en_GB group, but we are speaking about en_US which is the source for all languages. There is no en_US l10n group because this is the developer team in fact, but few are native en_US speaking. Note that at the OOo time, the linguist (Liz Matthis) was german, but she was a good linguist. So to answer Robinson and you, yes, we need somebody able to check the en_US version. I'm ready to help in each step. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Membership Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Sophie wrote: a) Can somebody layout precisely what an en_US l10n team/group/individual would do? as, I said, I think the first thing is to have an up to date glossary, then check for the consistency in the menus/dialogs/tabs, check for the Camel case use, check that the good terms are used for the good functions, actions, etc and are consistent with the terms already used. Seems to me that a lot of that could be checked by a script. Some of it should be flagged when testing using the various screen readers. (I am making some very broad assumptions about the extent of a11y testing. Starting with using a box that literally has no monitor, keyboard, or mouse hooked up to it, when checking to see what functionality broke this time around.) Check that the help buttons leads to help files, check that the help files is up to date, etc. IOW, a lot of grunt work that probably could have been automated years ago, but wasn't. b) Is there an existing en_## L10N group that could assume the responsibilities, duties, etc of an en_US L10N group? there is an en_GB group, but we are speaking about en_US which is the source for all languages. There is no en_US l10n group because this is the developer team in fact, My thinking was that the en_## L10N group could add slidestream this into their localization work good linguist. You don't want a linguist here. You want somebody that suffers from anb acute case of monolingualism. jonathon -- Sent from the eating establishment at the Far side of the Universe, at the begining of Time, and at the end of Space. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
