Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi, On Tuesday, 2020-06-02 15:54:42 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote: > (Jeremy Brown as the original contributor of Congolese locales on Cc) Unfortunately no answer from Jeremy, but having dug deeper into this the current situation makes sense. > On Tuesday, 2020-06-02 14:55:06 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote: > > > > LANGUAGE_USER_AKA0x0677 axk-CF - no entry in language list > > > LANGUAGE_USER_AKA_CONGO 0x8277 axk-CG "Aka (Congo)" The confusing part here is the name Aka. Aka is the autonym (how people call the language themselves) for Yaka, the ISO 639-3 name. This is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aka_language and is spoken in both Central African Republic and Congo. > > > But the 'axk' ISO 639 code actually is Yaka, not Aka, > > > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/axk > > > > LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA 0x0683 iyx-CG "Yaka" > > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/iyx That additionally exists but is not Yaka/Aka but "Yaka (Congo)" So I'll not remap axk-CG to iyx-CG like the idea was earlier, but keep the locales and add a language list entry for axk-CF "Aka (Central African Republic)" and change iyx-CG to "Yaka (Congo)" thus we can add yaf-CD "Yaka (Democratic Republic of Congo)" https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/yaf Eike -- GPG key 0x6A6CD5B765632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi, Le 02/06/2020 à 15:01, Eike Rathke a écrit : > Hi, > > On Tuesday, 2020-06-02 14:55:06 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote: > >>> https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/axk >> https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/iyx > > Oh great, there's even Yaka (Democratic Republic of Congo) with yet > another ISO code 'yaf' > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/yaf > > Fun.. Thanks a lot for chasing that, Eike Cheers Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi, (Jeremy Brown as the original contributor of Congolese locales on Cc) On Tuesday, 2020-06-02 14:55:06 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote: > > LANGUAGE_USER_AKA0x0677 axk-CF - no entry in language list > > LANGUAGE_USER_AKA_CONGO 0x8277 axk-CG "Aka (Congo)" > > > > But the 'axk' ISO 639 code actually is Yaka, not Aka, > > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/axk > > LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA 0x0683 iyx-CG "Yaka" > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/iyx > > > I'll adjust that to "Yaka (Congo)" and also add axk-CF to the language > > list with "Yaka (Central African Republic)". > > ... which somewhat complicates things, we probably want > > LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA_CAR0x0677 axk-CF "Yaka (Central African Republic)" > LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA_CONGO 0x0683 iyx-CG "Yaka (Congo)" > > and remap existing document content from 0x8277/axk-CG to 0x0683/iyx-CG. To make matters worse, a whole bunch of CG Congo locales was added with commit c69221a2f12331cadee4dbed50de30bf8aa230b0 Add/modify locales & language list entries for Congolese languages https://git.libreoffice.org/core/+/c69221a2f12331cadee4dbed50de30bf8aa230b0 which even (now IMHO wrongly) came with axk-CG locale data and (correct) iyx-CG locale data. Apparently I tried to disentangle some of the mess already in commit 66308dd049b98476127265e9cc9ac32f19dfccaf changes to Congolese locales https://git.libreoffice.org/core/+/66308dd049b98476127265e9cc9ac32f19dfccaf introducing LANGUAGE_USER_AKA_CONGO instead of plain LANGUAGE_USER_AKA (which mainly would be Central African Republic) (Aka actually is a synonym of Yaka in this context, not the other Aka language) but still, now I wonder if there was a reasonable intention of having both axk-CG and iyx-CG or if that was an oversight. Any clue, someone? In particular Jeremy? Thanks Eike -- GPG key 0x6A6CD5B765632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi Eike, Thanks for the reply. -- Original -- From: "Eike Rathke"; Date: Jun 2, 2020 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names > > Hi, > > On Friday, 2020-05-29 11:54:27 +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: >> > However there is also >> > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?checksum=4abc603904d1d7fa >> > where the country notation is only "Congo". Does this mean >> > it's spoken in Republic of the Congo (a.k.a. Congo-Brazzaville)? >> > If yes, it's probably better to be explicitly spelled out, as >> > "Congo" is ambigous. > > Yes, "(Congo)" is the Republic of the Congo, Congo-Brazzaville. > IIRC those languages/locales simply were earlier supported and just > later the "(Democratic Republic of the Congo)" locales were added. Or maybe because "(Congo)" was used at a time when Dep. Rep. of the Congo was called "Zaire", and when it changed its name, we only updated "Zaire" to "Dep. Rep. of the Congo", but neglected "Congo". > Geez.. that's a mess. (Also seeing the follow-ups about the complications) Sorry for opening this can of worms. :-P Regards, Ming -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi, On Tuesday, 2020-06-02 14:55:06 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote: > > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/axk > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/iyx Oh great, there's even Yaka (Democratic Republic of Congo) with yet another ISO code 'yaf' https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/yaf Fun.. Eike -- GPG key 0x6A6CD5B765632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi, On Tuesday, 2020-06-02 14:38:24 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote: > LANGUAGE_USER_AKA0x0677 axk-CF - no entry in language list > LANGUAGE_USER_AKA_CONGO 0x8277 axk-CG "Aka (Congo)" > > But the 'axk' ISO 639 code actually is Yaka, not Aka, > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/axk And to add to confusion, there's also LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA 0x0683 iyx-CG "Yaka" https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/iyx > I'll adjust that to "Yaka (Congo)" and also add axk-CF to the language > list with "Yaka (Central African Republic)". ... which somewhat complicates things, we probably want LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA_CAR0x0677 axk-CF "Yaka (Central African Republic)" LANGUAGE_USER_YAKA_CONGO 0x0683 iyx-CG "Yaka (Congo)" and remap existing document content from 0x8277/axk-CG to 0x0683/iyx-CG. I'll try to come up with something. Eike -- GPG key 0x6A6CD5B765632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi, On Friday, 2020-05-29 11:54:27 +0200, Sophie Gautier wrote: > > However there is also > > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?checksum=4abc603904d1d7fa > > where the country notation is only "Congo". Does this mean it's spoken in > > Republic of the Congo (a.k.a. Congo-Brazzaville)? If yes, it's probably > > better to be explicitly spelled out, as "Congo" is ambigous. Yes, "(Congo)" is the Republic of the Congo, Congo-Brazzaville. IIRC those languages/locales simply were earlier supported and just later the "(Democratic Republic of the Congo)" locales were added. > But what is strange is that Aka has no area attached to it > https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/akaa1242 > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/soh > I wonder where it comes from, I'll ask Eike Geez.. that's a mess. We currently have LANGUAGE_USER_AKA0x0677 axk-CF - no entry in language list LANGUAGE_USER_AKA_CONGO 0x8277 axk-CG "Aka (Congo)" But the 'axk' ISO 639 code actually is Yaka, not Aka, https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/axk 'soh' Aka seems to have only 300 native speakers according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sillok_language and is spoken in Sudan, we did not want to introduce that in this case and also have no entries for 'soh'. I'll adjust that to "Yaka (Congo)" and also add axk-CF to the language list with "Yaka (Central African Republic)". Thanks for pointing out. Eike -- GPG key 0x6A6CD5B765632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Le 29/05/2020 à 13:02, Ming H. a écrit : > Hi Sophie, > > -- Original -- > From: ; > Send time: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names >> >> Hi Ming, >> >> Le 29/05/2020 à 11:02, Ming H. a écrit : >>> I was translating various language names used in LO and had >>> a question about the English strings, specifically the name of Congo. >>> As a Chinese I know nothing about languages spoken in Africa, so >>> I'm writing to the list, hope someone more knowlegable can answer. >> >>> For the languages presented in LO, the parentheses are usually used >>> for notation of the country/region the language is spoken in. > [...] >> >> In fact, this is part of the language name and not only the name of the >> country. Look here for Kituba: >> https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/kitu1245 > > I respectfully disagree. They are just names linguists use to distinguish > dialects/variants of the same language. Linguists may like to call them > different languages like they differentiate all those dialects of English: > https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/stan1293 > But to an ordinary layman, they are just the same language, spoken with > slight differences in different countries. I agree, but what we take usually is the name as described in the iso code https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/mkw > > And note that although this website uses names like "Indian English", LO > uses "English (India)" in the style I described. There is no iso code for Indian English so I guess it's just an indication in this case > >> But what is strange is that Aka has no area attached to it >> https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/akaa1242 >> https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/soh > > In my original link > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?q=source%3A%22(Congo)%22=2 > you can see three other languages as well (click the "Next" button): > Koongo, Njyem, and Yombe. > >> I wonder where it comes from, I'll ask Eike > > Eike is definitely the expert on these locale issues. It would be great to > hear from him. Yes, so let see what he'll say :-) Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi Sophie, -- Original -- From: ; Send time: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names > > Hi Ming, > > Le 29/05/2020 à 11:02, Ming H. a écrit : >> I was translating various language names used in LO and had >> a question about the English strings, specifically the name of Congo. >> As a Chinese I know nothing about languages spoken in Africa, so >> I'm writing to the list, hope someone more knowlegable can answer. > >> For the languages presented in LO, the parentheses are usually used >> for notation of the country/region the language is spoken in. [...] > > In fact, this is part of the language name and not only the name of the > country. Look here for Kituba: > https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/kitu1245 I respectfully disagree. They are just names linguists use to distinguish dialects/variants of the same language. Linguists may like to call them different languages like they differentiate all those dialects of English: https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/stan1293 But to an ordinary layman, they are just the same language, spoken with slight differences in different countries. And note that although this website uses names like "Indian English", LO uses "English (India)" in the style I described. > But what is strange is that Aka has no area attached to it > https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/akaa1242 > https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/soh In my original link https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?q=source%3A%22(Congo)%22=2 you can see three other languages as well (click the "Next" button): Koongo, Njyem, and Yombe. > I wonder where it comes from, I'll ask Eike Eike is definitely the expert on these locale issues. It would be great to hear from him. Regards, Ming -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Question about translating language names
Hi Ming, Le 29/05/2020 à 11:02, Ming H. a écrit : > I was translating various language names used in LO and had a question about > the English strings, specifically the name of Congo. As a Chinese I know > nothing about languages spoken in Africa, so I'm writing to the list, hope > someone more knowlegable can answer. > > For the languages presented in LO, the parentheses are usually [1] used for > notation of the country/region the language is spoken in. And in > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?checksum=c7f58abceaa60b71 > Democratic Republic of the Congo, also known as Congo-Kinshasa, is noted as > such. > > However there is also > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?checksum=4abc603904d1d7fa > where the country notation is only "Congo". Does this mean it's spoken in > Republic of the Congo (a.k.a. Congo-Brazzaville)? If yes, it's probably > better to be explicitly spelled out, as "Congo" is ambigous. > > There are also four other strings with "(Congo)" notations: > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/translate/libo_ui-master/svtoolsmessages/zh_Hans/?q=source%3A%22(Congo)%22=2 > which also need clarification. In fact, this is part of the language name and not only the name of the country. Look here for Kituba: https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/kitu1245 But what is strange is that Aka has no area attached to it https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/akaa1242 https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/soh I wonder where it comes from, I'll ask Eike Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
