Re: [lace] Lassen question
Hello Helen and everyone The neat join called "lassen" is really effective. I followed the instruction in the Book of Flanders by Niven; equipment required is one very short, very fine needle, a pair of finely-pointed scissors, and a joining thread that exactly matches the shade of the lace thread, and ---> two... counts finer. Not difficult to find. I have not seen anything about 6 times finer, maybe the scholarly booklet "Het Lassen" offers some information. "Lassen" worked for me, joining over the first and last repeats of a circular edging in Flanders lace, and for a Binche lace hanky, joining along one of the sides. Somebody mentioned corners. I do not think "lassen" is done at a corner. I have seen mitred joins, but not the overlap join at a corner. Hope this helps. On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 1:11 AM H M Clarke wrote: > Was there some secret extra-fine thread ... > > -- Bev cool in the fog of in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] The Digital Exhibition - Lace Identification: 7 examples
"I would like to share with you a link to the digital exhibition about lace identification. https://trc-leiden.nl/trc-digital-exhibition/index.php/lace-identification-7-examples The research was done by Olga Ieromina and Lisa Dilitz in the Textile Research Center, Leiden, the Netherlands. " Thankyou Olga for sharing this link with us and for presenting your research in such an easily accessible manner. I now feel that I would Iike to know much more about the development of the lacemaking machines, such clever engineering. Does anyone know of a publication that documents this?? Phil in Maitland NSW Australia - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Digital exhibition—Lace identification
Thank you Olga—what a helpful online article! It’s lovely to showcase objects in the TRC collection—even better with a tutorial. This was my first visit to your website so thanks for the link. I enjoyed the embroidered postcards as well. Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA Sent from my iPad - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
When I blow up the photos to be able to see the path of the thread as it whipped around bars in the net, it looks to me like the thread used for the join is the same thread that was used to make the lace. It's certainly not significantly finer. Nancy On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 7:05 PM Devon Thein wrote:. > ... What do you think about the thread size? > >> - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
Adele, I'm thinking that a lassen technique might have developed when flat corners meant one no longer had the gathers at the corners in which to hide the seam. That's why I've asked in my last post if the seam is indeed in a gathered part in handerkerchiefs with gathered corners. In handkerchiefs with flat corners, I was trying to date the ones with drafted corners by what I had understood from Pam Nottingham (but I'm convinced now that she was talking only about point ground laces), because if the development of lassen occurred because drafted corners took away the place to hide the seam, dating drafted corners would tell us whether lassen was a recent development or not. So you are quite correct that lassen is whipping together an overlapped section with matching pattern, but when and why lassen was developed might have something to do with the occurrence of flat corners instead of gathered corners. That's the association I see. Nancy Connecticut, USA On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 6:44 PM Adele Shaak wrote: > My understanding is that lassen is used when the end of a pattern overlaps > the beginning; and the patterns therefore match. This would have nothing to > do with corners; it would be done in the one place in the lace piece where > the end overlapped the beginning. So, if you were making a hankie that had > drafted corners, you would work all the way around the pattern and then an > inch or two past where you started so you can overlap and lassen it > together. > ... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
I put up on laceioli.ning the phtos of 63.196.17. Also, I did find some lassen. One is dated about 1800, which I am somewhat doubtful about. The other is joined lappets dated early 19th century. But, I would expect that if they were joined it was somewhat later than the date of the lappets, since lappet wearers didn't wear them joined. What do you think about the thread size? Devon - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
My understanding is that lassen is used when the end of a pattern overlaps the beginning; and the patterns therefore match. This would have nothing to do with corners; it would be done in the one place in the lace piece where the end overlapped the beginning. So, if you were making a hankie that had drafted corners, you would work all the way around the pattern and then an inch or two past where you started so you can overlap and lassen it together. It looks to me from the hankie Devon has put up on Ning, and the way the pattern continues straight around, that they had a long straight piece of lace edging, and that was folded back on itself to create the 90 degree corners. If it were me I would have sewn the lace seam in place before I cut the triangle off, and then overstitched the cut ends. I can’t say for sure that is the way this one was made, but I am struck with how perfectly lined up the threads are, just before they hit the seam, so I don’t think the lace was cut first and sewn later. (still nothing to do with Lassen, I know). Hope this helps. It would be interesting to look at things like doily edgings, picture frames, and the like, to find use of the lassen technique. I seem to recall seeing it used on a piece of Tonder; I think the technique would be useful for many different lace types. Adele West Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) > On Jun 16, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Devon Thein wrote: > > < the Met and tell us how the joins are made.>> > Funny you should ask. I was looking at one of the binche handkerchiefs from > Princess Alice of Monaco, 63.196.6. The joins are in the corners and they > do not use lassen, although they are very skillfully done. I have posted > photos of the four corners on > http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history?xg_source=activity the > laceioli.ning site in identification/history. The handkerchief dates from > 1888-1902 based on the monogram which changed when the owner became > divorced. > I think that lassen is something that you do with Binche and point de > Paris. Are there any other laces that use "lassen"? Nancy, did you see > any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have photos. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
Devon, Quite a few of the handkerchiefs that were donated by the Duchesse de Richelieu, in memory of the Princess Alice of Monaco, in 1963, were of interest, largely because I couldn't see an obvious join in most of them. Several had flat corners: e.g., 63.196.17. In the ones with gathered corners, I'd be interested again in the join and if it was "hidden" in the gathers: e.g., 63.196.3. I noted the accession numbers of several others in that donation as ones to look at, but stopped making detailed notes because I couldn't tell much from the photos: 63.196.2, 63.196.1, 63.196.16. Others not in that donation: 59.62.7, 41.14.16, 08.47.27, 54.94.3, and 41.14.15. The one that impressed me out of that batch donated was 63.196.12, a figural Binche, but there the join was obvious (I think). Your photos on ning IOLI are very good. That piece was one I had noted, and thought it looked like the corners all had a seam. Some of the needle lace handkerchiefs are quite distracting. :-) I really regret being totally unable to do satisfactory needle lace. Nancy Connecticut, USA On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 5:55 PM Devon Thein wrote: > ...Nancy, did you see any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have > photos. > >> - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Re: Lassen question
Hi Helen, After reading your email, I was curious enough to look on line and there appears to be a course at the Kantcentrum "Lassen en innaaien van kant" G**gle translates the course description as: Welding and sewing in lace We end one side. Welding and sewing is the complete finishing of a edge. The edge must be welded and fabric sewn with a lace for a square edge and an incrustation for a circle. This gives a nicely finished edge. Welding lace?!! Maybe someone can come up with a better translation? If you want to find out more, the course is at the end of July https://www.kantcentrum.eu/en/summer-courses/lassen-en-innaaien-van-kant Best wishes, Jane Read New Forest, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
<> Funny you should ask. I was looking at one of the binche handkerchiefs from Princess Alice of Monaco, 63.196.6. The joins are in the corners and they do not use lassen, although they are very skillfully done. I have posted photos of the four corners on http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history?xg_source=activity the laceioli.ning site in identification/history. The handkerchief dates from 1888-1902 based on the monogram which changed when the owner became divorced. I think that lassen is something that you do with Binche and point de Paris. Are there any other laces that use "lassen"? Nancy, did you see any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have photos. Devon Vis a vis Pam Nottingham. If you are doing Bucks it is quite difficult to do a corner because there is a grid and it is not a 90 degree angle, so perhaps she and her students did invent a way of handling this grid disassociation by inserting a motif in the center of the corner to muddy that issue. Corners in needle lace or Milanese would not present that problem. Sometimes you see chalice covers or patten covers with corners in these laces. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
I guess I have to confess that I believed a source and shouldn't have, or I totally misunderstood her: Pam Nottingham was emphatic that she and her students were the first to design flat corners for edging handkerchiefs, in the mid-twentieth C. She must have meant only Bucks because I've just surveyed handkerchiefs in the Met's on-line catalog, and there are lots of flat corners from the 19th C but in other types of lace. I saw only a couple of joins, but the pictures aren't detailed enough to tell whether there are joins hidden in the gathered part around a corner. Go to https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/ and put in "Handkerchief lace". (without the quotes) Lots of the pieces that come up in the 121 hits are needle lace but there are some really gorgeous pieces so not painful to look at as you look through for the bobbin lace. I think we need to assign Devon to look at all the bobbin lace ones in the Met and tell us how the joins are made. Nancy Connecticut, USA On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 2:49 PM N.A. Neff wrote: > I have few older handkerchiefs so I'm like Devon -- I can't say for sure, > but I think in the ones I have that have gathered corners, there's a quite > visible join. (They are in storage but I will try to dig them out soon.) I > do know that the flat corners are a recent development (i.e., starting in > the mid-20th C), and I agree with Devon, I think lassen may be a recent > development dating from trying to make a continuous flat circular or square > edging -- i.e., no older than mid-20th C. If this is true then there would > be finer thread available (although I'm not sure about the 6-times finer), > because modern straight lace edging is typically worked not much finer than > about 140/2 Egyptian cotton, and there's 185/2 Egyptian cotton readily > available, and I even saw 210/2 Egyptian cotton somewhere recently. > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] The Digital Exhibition - Lace Identification: 7 examples
Hi everyone, I would like to share with you a link to the digital exhibition about lace identification. The exhibition shows 7 pairs of laces where one is handmade and another is machine made. Each pair has description of differences and main distinguishing points. Also the research is illustrated by high quality photos. https://trc-leiden.nl/trc-digital-exhibition/index.php/lace-identification-7-examples The research was done by Olga Ieromina and Lisa Dilitz in the Textile Research Center, Leiden, the Netherlands. I hope you would enjoy it! Best Wishes, Olga - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
I have few older handkerchiefs so I'm like Devon -- I can't say for sure, but I think in the ones I have that have gathered corners, there's a quite visible join. (They are in storage but I will try to dig them out soon.) I do know that the flat corners are a recent development (i.e., starting in the mid-20th C), and I agree with Devon, I think lassen may be a recent development dating from trying to make a continuous flat circular or square edging -- i.e., no older than mid-20th C. If this is true then there would be finer thread available (although I'm not sure about the 6-times finer), because modern straight lace edging is typically worked not much finer than about 140/2 Egyptian cotton, and there's 185/2 Egyptian cotton readily available, and I even saw 210/2 Egyptian cotton somewhere recently. This needs a little research I'd say. Interesting question. Nancy Connecticut, USA On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 1:37 PM Clay Blackwell wrote: > ...Corner work is continuous. It doesn't require the finer thread. ... > > > > On Jun 16, 2019, at 11:03 AM, Devon Thein wrote: > > ...whether lassen is a relatively recent development dating from the > need to > > match when doing a square handkerchief edging with corners. > > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
Lassen is a technique for joining fine lace. It is done with very fine thread which is used to wrap small bundles invisibly. Corner work is continuous. It doesn't require the finer thread. I'm frustrated that I can't remember more! I also can't find my copy of "Het Lassen", which covers the technique and applications quite well, assuming you can muddle through translating! Clay Sent from my iPad > On Jun 16, 2019, at 11:03 AM, Devon Thein wrote: > > Add this to the list of things I should be looking for when I look at lace > in the museum! This is something I never thought of before. I had a quick > look through my photos and I couldn't find an example of lassen, although I > have been taught how to do the technique in several classes. It would be > interesting to see if someone has a historical piece that has lassen on it, > and then we could assess whether it is true that the thread used was six > times finer. One random thought that crosses my mind, based on nothing, is > whether lassen is a relatively recent development dating from the need to > match when doing a square handkerchief edging with corners. > Devon > > >> >> >> > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lassen question
Add this to the list of things I should be looking for when I look at lace in the museum! This is something I never thought of before. I had a quick look through my photos and I couldn't find an example of lassen, although I have been taught how to do the technique in several classes. It would be interesting to see if someone has a historical piece that has lassen on it, and then we could assess whether it is true that the thread used was six times finer. One random thought that crosses my mind, based on nothing, is whether lassen is a relatively recent development dating from the need to match when doing a square handkerchief edging with corners. Devon > > > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Lassen question
Hi, Since the list is silent, I would like to ask an historical question. I will state here that I have asked the question before years ago but didn’t get a satisfactory answer so here I go again ... For lassen (I think that is the word), where the ends of lace are overlapped and (almost) invisibly joined by oversewing, what thread did they use? We often hear about how the finest threads were used to make the lace. Then I got an answer that said that the lassen thread was six times finer than that. Presumably they always used the same type of thread (linen, cotton, silk or whatever) for both. Therefore, I am in something of a quandary and I am really hoping that someone can explain. Was there some secret extra-fine thread that was only available in short lengths? Whatever it was, it had to be strong and well-spun and available to these skilled artists. Just how fine are we talking about? I understand that there are a few specialists who still do this work so maybe one of you have used their talents and know something about it? Over to you all, thank you in advance, Helen (in hot British Columbia) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
