Re: [Lazarus] SourceEditor: strange gap on right hand side
On 29 February 2012 08:59, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: Now this is going to be very useful, though I would have to get used to how it is displayed... a bit confusing at first. From your screenshot it looked confusing, but actually using it in practice, it works very well. Awesome feature! Thank you. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Can't compile trunk with fpc 2.4.5 under ubuntu
On Wednesday, 29. February 2012 08.55:55 Michael Schnell wrote: On 02/28/2012 04:13 PM, Sven Barth wrote: And instead of introducing yet another type or another special encoding we could just leverage the features FPC has today and use TBytes. I agree, if all features are in place: - its available out of the box (in the RTL) - it has all string functions in fully compatible way: - can do + (via operator overload) - can do pos(), copy(), delete() and friends via overloaded functions - conversion from and to Unicode String (via operator overload ? ) - conversion to pchar (how ? ) - does reference counting, lazy copy and auto re-alloc on resizing operations. - TByteStringList (are there more relevant string handling objects) is provided out of the box in a fully compatible and equally versatile way - no performance degradation. - conversion to AnsiString without move(). - conversion from AnsiString without move(). Martin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why the Java became so strong?
On 02/28/2012 04:20 PM, Massimo Soricetti wrote: I agree absolutely. Trying to use a complex entity as Lazarus+FPC+LCL+packages without extensive documentation it's a delusion, and this should be obvious to every programmer in the world nowadays. Here, very recently, has been a very interesting discussion on offline help. It has died but I am not sure if any result has been achieved. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why the Java became so strong?
On 02/28/2012 05:25 PM, William Oliveira Ferreira wrote: sometimes all lazarus' users wanna see core team do something that themselves can Of course there are many outside the core team who would be able and willing to help improving the documentation. But to allow them to do this, there needs to be a decent infrastructure for writing/modifying the help sources, compiling and viewing the result (as Offline help in Lazarus) and providing the additions to be reviewed by the powers. This includes all help aspects (like Language, IDE, Compiler, RTL, LCL, user-additions, ...) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SourceEditor: strange gap on right hand side
2012/2/28 Martin : It can be switched on and off in the IDE options. It does show (for the entire file): - position of breakpoints - position of bookmarks - changes (unsaved/saved) per line - implementation/interface/initialization (shaded grey) - current visible page (shaded grey) I don't know who implemented this, but it is a nice feature. Beyond Compare has such an overview bar for a long time, at it works very nice in BC. One suggestion (though I know it is probably still work-in-process) from my experience with Beyond Compare... make it clickable. So when you click on a bookmark area, the editor jumps to that area instantly. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/28/2012 08:06 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: If you want to write some help about an IDE dialog: Use F1 to open the wiki page. If it does not open, or opens the wrong page, just write an email, so I can fix it. If this happens rather often this is no possible way to go. And it it does open: Is the helpful user supposed to use the wiki to improve the help text ? This would make the Wiki database the primary help source. I seem to remember that exactly this was discouraged in the recent big discussion on offline help.- -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
On 02/28/2012 10:59 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: What's missing from the current documentation tools? After doing an addition to the help sources (supposedly using FPDoc, I did not yet try to use it, but found the discussions on your recent improvements to it very encouraging), how to (quite automatically) create from the svn sources (with my additions) a combined Lazarus offline help (in order to test the additions) that includes all aspects like Help-on-Help, FPC-Language, IDE, RTL, LCL, user additions, ... ? -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
Hi, From the following website, it mentions that FreeBSD is supported, but there is no FreeBSD download available. http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ It shouldn't be a problem building my own, but it is always handy having an official binary release available as a starting point. I'm setting up a FreeBSD 9.0 (32-bit) development system and would like to know the status of Lazarus on FreeBSD (9.0 preferably). I'll probably default to the GTK2 widgetset, but if Qt4 is more stable/supported I can switch to that too. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
Op 29 februari 2012 09:47 heeft Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: Hi, From the following website, it mentions that FreeBSD is supported, but there is no FreeBSD download available. http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ It is supported, but there are no binary releases. FreeBSD user can use the source tar ball. It shouldn't be a problem building my own, but it is always handy having an official binary release available as a starting point. There is no official binary release from the lazarus team. I'm setting up a FreeBSD 9.0 (32-bit) development system and would like to know the status of Lazarus on FreeBSD (9.0 preferably). I'll probably default to the GTK2 widgetset, but if Qt4 is more stable/supported I can switch to that too. I don't use Lazarus on FreeBSD, (there are other who use Lazarus on FreeBSD), maybe there is even a lazarus version in ports, so you get some help building it from source. Vincent -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
Op 29 februari 2012 09:47 heeft Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: Hi, From the following website, it mentions that FreeBSD is supported, but there is no FreeBSD download available. http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ It shouldn't be a problem building my own, but it is always handy having an official binary release available as a starting point. See also: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Installing_Lazarus#Installing_Lazarus_under_FreeBSD Vincent -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 09:34:14 +0100 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 02/28/2012 08:06 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: If you want to write some help about an IDE dialog: Use F1 to open the wiki page. If it does not open, or opens the wrong page, just write an email, so I can fix it. If this happens rather often this is no possible way to go. I do hope people use the provided help often. And it it does open: Is the helpful user supposed to use the wiki to improve the help text ? This would make the Wiki database the primary help source. It is since many years. Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? I seem to remember that exactly this was discouraged in the recent big discussion on offline help.- Maybe the discussion was mainly lead by people that discourage without doing something. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 09:57 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: It is since many years. Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? I don't understand what you mean. I think there should be single source for online and offline help. Everything else obviously is not manageable at all. (In fact I don't see how a Wiki can be part of this as - AFAIK - there is no solution for exporting or importing wiki database content for other formats. ) Maybe the discussion was mainly lead by people that discourage without doing something. (I don't remember who said this, but I believe it was one from the core-team.) Unfortunately creating / improving the help creation and help viewing infrastructure is a rather complicated and far reaching issue that only can be managed by the core team. (Many thanks to DoDi for trying to get involved!). Using this infrastructure (if decently workable) to help to improve the documentation, non-core-team persons would be able to improve the product. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 10:23 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: (Many thanks to DoDi for trying to get involved!). Many thanks to Graeme as well ! -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
On 29 February 2012 10:54, Vincent Snijders wrote: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ It is supported, but there are no binary releases. FreeBSD user can use the source tar ball. Thanks Vincent. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
Am 29.02.12 10:28, schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys: On 29 February 2012 10:54, Vincent Snijders wrote: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ It is supported, but there are no binary releases. FreeBSD user can use the source tar ball. Thanks Vincent. We use Laz/FPC in our FreeBSD company development team since years, we mainly use trunk/svn versions directly on the developer machines. (different checkouts / ~weekly) and a definitive version on the nightly build server and test suite. You may get trouble with threaded applications crashing with fpc 2.6, and FreeBSD 9 which comes from a bad/incomplete semaphore definition IIRC. Pierre fixed that (many thanks) a while ago but AFAIK it's not in the 2.6.1 fixes branch - so you may have to apply a patch manually. - search for posts from me, pierre, marco regarding FreeBSD and threads. or come back to me if you have troubles ... helmut -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 29 February 2012 10:57, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? How do you hook into the IDE dialog help system? Is this by registering yet another help package? How would the IDE decide between a HTML, CHM or INF help system for the dialogs in the IDE? Also what HelpType does the IDE dialogs use? HelpContext or HelpText? Is there a specific naming conversion for the HelpContext or HelpText values in the various IDE dialogs? Where is this documented? I couldn't find such information on the wiki (as usual). -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 29 February 2012 10:57, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? And, what's the point is me doing an HTML (from the wiki) to INF conversion, and then the next day somebody updates the wiki pages again. The INF (or CHM) help would always be out of date. So why should I bother doing the conversion work, when the Lazarus core team is NOT interested in a offline help solution. Until an official statement is being made that says something like The Lazarus project is now moving away from online-only wiki help, to a much improved offline help system., I'll not lift a finger, because my time and effort would be wasted. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
On 29 February 2012 11:37, Helmut Hartl wrote: We use Laz/FPC in our FreeBSD company development team since years, Excellent news, thanks. You may get trouble with threaded applications crashing with fpc 2.6, and FreeBSD 9 which comes from a bad/incomplete semaphore definition IIRC. Thanks for the heads-up, I use multi-threading a lot in our work. I'll search for the patch. Has anybody notified or requested a back-port of that patch to 2.6.1? Thanks again for all the info. So far the FreeBSD system looks awesome - I'm absolutely loving ZFS by the way! :) -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
look: http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/79-bsd-development/1516-lab-codetyphon-on-freebsd-9-0-final On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 February 2012 11:37, Helmut Hartl wrote: We use Laz/FPC in our FreeBSD company development team since years, Excellent news, thanks. You may get trouble with threaded applications crashing with fpc 2.6, and FreeBSD 9 which comes from a bad/incomplete semaphore definition IIRC. Thanks for the heads-up, I use multi-threading a lot in our work. I'll search for the patch. Has anybody notified or requested a back-port of that patch to 2.6.1? Thanks again for all the info. So far the FreeBSD system looks awesome - I'm absolutely loving ZFS by the way! :) -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Sorry, I will return to you guys later about the project management issues. I am busy for some time now. I try to pick the essential parts. You could also think of the details of how to implement some things. Regards, Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:23:18 +0100 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 02/29/2012 09:57 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: It is since many years. Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? I don't understand what you mean. I think there should be single source for online and offline help. Everything else obviously is not manageable at all. (In fact I don't see how a Wiki can be part of this as - AFAIK - there is no solution for exporting or importing wiki database content for other formats. ) I started it. Maybe the discussion was mainly lead by people that discourage without doing something. (I don't remember who said this, but I believe it was one from the core-team.) Unfortunately creating / improving the help creation and help viewing infrastructure is a rather complicated and far reaching issue that only can be managed by the core team. (Many thanks to DoDi for trying to get involved!). Using this infrastructure (if decently workable) to help to improve the documentation, non-core-team persons would be able to improve the product. Have you even tried to edit wiki or use the fpdoc editor? What needs improving is packaging the help and creating the offline help. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:39:32 +0200 Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 February 2012 10:57, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? How do you hook into the IDE dialog help system? Is this by registering yet another help package? Yes. There are some open issues. I'm working on this. How would the IDE decide between a HTML, CHM or INF help system for the dialogs in the IDE? Whatever the user installs. Also what HelpType does the IDE dialogs use? HelpContext or HelpText? Is there a specific naming conversion for the HelpContext or HelpText values in the various IDE dialogs? Where is this documented? I couldn't find such information on the wiki (as usual). I'm currently working on this. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Can't compile trunk with fpc 2.4.5 under ubuntu
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 08:44:20AM +0100, Michael Schnell wrote: it incompatible with other encodings, and thus disables all conversions. Such an encoding doesn't break Delphi compatibility, but allows to use all stringhandling functions with it. The colleague I mentioned told me that with Delphi XE2 (but maybe nit with Delphi versions XE2 and = 2009) ANSIString _is_ exactly the pre 2009 string type Not exactly. It has a codepage added to the record. while String (and friends is the new style dynamically encode string type. No that is ansistring, with various values filled in for codepage. The default codepage can be set to the system 1-byte encoding (ansi), and then it is the same as the D7 one. string is unicodestring, and that is always utf16. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 11:10 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: I started it. Please elaborate. Is the wiki supposed to be the upcoming help source, thus invalidating FPDoc and friends ? In fact I don't have a decent opinion on whether this is a good idea, but I do recommend considering the implications (including calculating a timeframe for making the transition i.e. importing all FPDoc generated files into the wiki, providing tools for importing the Pascal sources in a way FPDoc does, exporting The Wiki content to (what ??) offline help viewer, managing comments or levels in the viewer for allowing the help writers to decently organize their work - as an svn, allowing local modifications, for the wiki content is not available). Have you even tried to edit wiki or use the fpdoc editor? Re Wiki: Up til now I did not know that the Wiki is even considered as the main help content source, so why do any modifications there which will die quite soon ? Re FPDoc: Why should I do this, if I am not able to create help viewer files that allow me to view my modifications and be sure that I did not destroy anything ? -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:43:46 +0200 Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 February 2012 10:57, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Have you seen any secondary help for the dialogs? And, what's the point is me doing an HTML (from the wiki) to INF conversion, and then the next day somebody updates the wiki pages again. The INF (or CHM) help would always be out of date. So why should I bother doing the conversion work, when the Lazarus core team is NOT interested in a offline help solution. Until an official statement is being made that says something like The Lazarus project is now moving away from online-only wiki help, to a much improved offline help system., I'll not lift a finger, because my time and effort would be wasted. Not having top priority and being NOT interested are two different things. AFAIK everyone agreed that having all help offline would be nice feature. The wiki is frequently edited by many people and already contains more than 2500 pages. It makes no sense to shut it down. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 11:17 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: How do you hook into the IDE dialog help system? Is this by registering yet another help package? Yes. How would the IDE decide between a HTML, CHM or INF help system for the dialogs in the IDE? Whatever the user installs. This is nice (for the moment). But of course there need to be means to automatically keep the different options in sync. I'm currently working on this. This does sounds good (even if not many information on this is available right now). In fact I don't understand why you did not mention this up til now ? (Or did I just miss it ?) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 11:26 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: The wiki is frequently edited by many people and already contains more than 2500 pages. It makes no sense to shut it down. But if there is no way to keep it in sync with the FPDoc files, how is the future of either considered to be ? -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:24:31 +0100 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 02/29/2012 11:10 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: I started it. Please elaborate. I started a tool to download the wiki and convert it to other formats. I'm still evaluating possibilities. Is the wiki supposed to be the upcoming help source, thus invalidating FPDoc and friends ? Are you kidding? fpdoc is great. In fact I don't have a decent opinion on whether this is a good idea, but I do recommend considering the implications (including calculating a timeframe for making the transition i.e. importing all FPDoc generated files into the wiki, providing tools for importing the Pascal sources in a way FPDoc does, exporting The Wiki content to (what ??) offline help viewer, managing comments or levels in the viewer for allowing the help writers to decently organize their work - as an svn, allowing local modifications, for the wiki content is not available). There are many possibilities. Abandoning fpdoc is none of them. Have you even tried to edit wiki or use the fpdoc editor? Re Wiki: Up til now I did not know that the Wiki is even considered as the main help content source, so why do any modifications there which will die quite soon ? You must be kidding. Re FPDoc: Why should I do this, if I am not able to create help viewer files that allow me to view my modifications and be sure that I did not destroy anything ? Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com wrote: And, what's the point is me doing an HTML (from the wiki) to INF conversion, and then the next day somebody updates the wiki pages again. The INF (or CHM) help would always be out of date. I think it would be perfectly fine to generate 1 new offline IDE CHM for each release and ship Lazarus with it. The release won't change anyway, and the IDE dialogs can change, so it is not desirable to use the latest docs with a released Lazarus. If you can contribute something which can generate such a wiki to CHM conversion, then I suppose it could be repeated in the future with much less work then the first time. For SVN users the best option would be the wiki still. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho felipemonteiro.carva...@gmail.com wrote: If you can contribute something which can generate such a wiki to CHM conversion, then I suppose it could be repeated in the future with much less work then the first time. Aha, I missed that Mattias is already working on it =) So I would rephrase to contribute with Mattias then instead of starting a newer wiki-chm convertor -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 11:33, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 11:26 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: The wiki is frequently edited by many people and already contains more than 2500 pages. It makes no sense to shut it down. But if there is no way to keep it in sync with the FPDoc files, how is the future of either considered to be ? FPDoc Wiki FPDoc is about documentation of the source code, documentation of the LCL, etc. The Wiki is used for documenting e.g. the usage of the IDE. You can't do this using FPDoc. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Can't compile trunk with fpc 2.4.5 under ubuntu
On 02/29/2012 11:24 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: No that is ansistring, with various values filled in for codepage. The default codepage can be set to the system 1-byte encoding (ansi), and then it is the same as the D7 one. string is unicodestring, and that is always utf16. Taking a brief look at the XE2 internals you seem to be right and he he was mistaken. Maybe he would be better off using ANSIString(0) or ANSIString($) to be sure that his doing will not be influenced by the locale setting of the system the code is compiled on or runs on. Just _hoping_ that the code generated by XE2 for ANSIString will not be a lot slower that that generated by Delphi 2009 for String. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 09:54:23AM +0100, Vincent Snijders wrote: From the following website, it mentions that FreeBSD is supported, but there is no FreeBSD download available. http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ It is supported, but there are no binary releases. FreeBSD user can use the source tar ball. pkg_add lazarus maybe? There seem to be binary ports on FTP: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-9-stable/devel/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:37:19AM +0100, Helmut Hartl wrote: You may get trouble with threaded applications crashing with fpc 2.6, and FreeBSD 9 which comes from a bad/incomplete semaphore definition IIRC. Did you debug that yourself? I didn't merge it because the patch doesn't look sane to me. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 11:33 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Is the wiki supposed to be the upcoming help source, thus invalidating FPDoc and friends ? Are you kidding? fpdoc is great. There only can be a single source for the help so either FPDoc or directly managing the Wiki kontent is great not both. There are many possibilities. Abandoning fpdoc is none of them. If you say so a will not disagree at all. Re Wiki: Up til now I did not know that the Wiki is even considered as the main help content source, so why do any modifications there which will die quite soon ? You must be kidding. It dies at least as soon as somebody generates / uses offline help files. Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. I talked about showing / seeing my modifications. I will not ever try to do any modifications unless I am able to see the result life. And I did invest a decent amount of time trying to generate offline help from the svn sources and failed multiple times (in action with DocView, even trying to find out how this should be done with CHM.) Supposedly I am just too stupid for this task :( -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:08 PM, Sven Barth wrote: The Wiki is used for documenting e.g. the usage of the IDE. You can't do this using FPDoc. This would mean that there never will be any offline help for Lazarus users. That would really be a bad thing. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 11:34 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: I think it would be perfectly fine to generate 1 new offline IDE CHM for each release and ship Lazarus with it. This discussion is about how to enable non-core members to help improving the docs. Your claim would prevent this as the doc writers would not be able to review their own work. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 12:25, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 11:33 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Is the wiki supposed to be the upcoming help source, thus invalidating FPDoc and friends ? Are you kidding? fpdoc is great. There only can be a single source for the help so either FPDoc or directly managing the Wiki kontent is great not both. No, as I wrote the two are the source for two different kinds of help. There are many possibilities. Abandoning fpdoc is none of them. If you say so a will not disagree at all. Re Wiki: Up til now I did not know that the Wiki is even considered as the main help content source, so why do any modifications there which will die quite soon ? You must be kidding. It dies at least as soon as somebody generates / uses offline help files. It won't, because the Wiki is the source for this kind of help and where editing takes place. Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. I talked about showing / seeing my modifications. The IDE parses the XML files. So as long as you did not move the edited file out of it's original location the IDE will display you your modified help. I will not ever try to do any modifications unless I am able to see the result life. And I did invest a decent amount of time trying to generate offline help from the svn sources and failed multiple times (in action with DocView, even trying to find out how this should be done with CHM.) Supposedly I am just too stupid for this task :( Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 11:34 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: For SVN users the best option would be the wiki still. Resulting in their work never can be included in the offline help. Very bad. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:30 PM, Sven Barth wrote: It won't, because the Wiki is the source for this kind of help and where editing takes place. I am sure that this will lead to perfect confusion and help content for ever unusable (for logical causes not for technical ones.) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012, Michael Schnell wrote: On 02/29/2012 11:34 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: I think it would be perfectly fine to generate 1 new offline IDE CHM for each release and ship Lazarus with it. This discussion is about how to enable non-core members to help improving the docs. Your claim would prevent this as the doc writers would not be able to review their own work. You mean, you are not able to do this. I perfectly can, so can mattias, and presumably even DiDo can do it. That your changes are not distributed at once after you've submitted them is another matter entirely. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 12:31, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 11:34 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: For SVN users the best option would be the wiki still. Resulting in their work never can be included in the offline help. Very bad. Why do you say that? Once a relese is about to be done the current versions of the wiki pages are converted to help files and provided as offline help. SVN users will use the Wiki pages directly, as they can change rather often in theory (of course nightly snapshots could be provided for those that can't be always online). Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 12:28, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 12:08 PM, Sven Barth wrote: The Wiki is used for documenting e.g. the usage of the IDE. You can't do this using FPDoc. This would mean that there never will be any offline help for Lazarus users. That would really be a bad thing. Did you read Matthias' answers? He wrote that he's working on a tool to export the Wiki entries for e.g. CHM, so this is not a problem... Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:36 PM, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: That your changes are not distributed at once after you've submitted them is another matter entirely. Submitting of course is another matter. I vote for a review by some kind of committee before submitting. This is what svn is invented for: the changes are done locally, they are compiled and can be viewed in action. Submitting can be done by the normal svn means. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 12:02:08AM +0200, Juha Manninen wrote: This was the best idea so far. I think there is open source project management programs available. However there is a big difference between professionally run SW projects and hobby open source projects: The term you look for is community driven project, not hobby. Many people working on larger open source project can do so in a professional environment. It is just that the project direction is not owned by a company. Note that many hybrids exist (like e.g. Canonical Ubuntu and Redhat's Fedora). -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:37 PM, Sven Barth wrote: (of course nightly snapshots... Maybe automatic nightly snapshots fed into the svn might be more workable for potential doc writers than being able to decently review their work with the next release, but anyway, splitting the help proceedings in two completely different source trees seems rather chaotic to me. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:32 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Did you read Matthias' answers? He wrote that he's working on a tool to export the Wiki entries for e.g. CHM, so this is not a problem... So some part of the offline help is produced by FPdoc and thus privileged (an non-core member of the community can't work on this) and other part is generated from the Wiki. The second thus can be worked on by normal members, but they will not be able to see (and search) the result in the offline help as same will be regenerate some day in the future. To me this scenario is quite horrible and totally disappointing for any possible doc writer. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 12:50, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 12:32 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Did you read Matthias' answers? He wrote that he's working on a tool to export the Wiki entries for e.g. CHM, so this is not a problem... So some part of the offline help is produced by FPdoc and thus privileged (an non-core member of the community can't work on this) and other part is generated from the Wiki. The second thus can be worked on by normal members, but they will not be able to see (and search) the result in the offline help as same will be regenerate some day in the future. Michael already wrote in one of the recent discussions that he wants to create a webpage (using fpweb of course ;) ) that will allow to edit the FPDoc help entries (I'll try to find the mail). Also there is always the way that works today: edit the entry yourself and provide a patch. Once you've shown enough interest in documentation work you might be granted SVN access to the documentation directory. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012, Michael Schnell wrote: On 02/29/2012 12:32 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Did you read Matthias' answers? He wrote that he's working on a tool to export the Wiki entries for e.g. CHM, so this is not a problem... So some part of the offline help is produced by FPdoc and thus privileged (an non-core member of the community can't work on this) and other part is generated from the Wiki. The second thus can be worked on by normal members, but they will not be able to see (and search) the result in the offline help as same will be regenerate some day in the future. To me this scenario is quite horrible and totally disappointing for any possible doc writer. Where did you see that fpdoc is priviledged ? Anyone can download and work on it, and submit patches. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:54 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Michael already wrote in one of the recent discussions that he wants to create a webpage (using fpweb of course ;) ) that will allow to edit the FPDoc help entries (I'll try to find the mail). Also there is always the way that works today: edit the entry yourself and provide a patch. Once you've shown enough interest in documentation work you might be granted SVN access to the documentation directory. To me this sounds totally wrong. I will not provide a patch for something that I can't decently review first. This wastes the time of the reviewing core member. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 12:48, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 12:37 PM, Sven Barth wrote: (of course nightly snapshots... Maybe automatic nightly snapshots fed into the svn might be more workable for potential doc writers than being able to decently review their work with the next release, but anyway, splitting the help proceedings in two completely different source trees seems rather chaotic to me. The nightly snapshots were meant for the help users (not the contributors). Also I'm talking about the Wiki pages about e.g. IDE usage here. The contributors for those help pages should always work with the Wiki. Contributors for source documentation need to edit the fpdoc files (e.g. those from the SVN checkout) and commit the changes (either as patch or directly if they have SVN write access). Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:54 PM, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: Where did you see that fpdoc is priviledged ? Anyone can download and work on it, and submit patches. See my answer to Sven. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Sven Barth pascaldra...@googlemail.com hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 12:08 geschrieben: Am 29.02.2012 11:33, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 11:26 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: The wiki is frequently edited by many people and already contains more than 2500 pages. It makes no sense to shut it down. But if there is no way to keep it in sync with the FPDoc files, how is the future of either considered to be ? FPDoc Wiki There is no big difference between a link from one fpdoc file to another (e.g. LCL to RTL) and between a fpdoc element and a wiki page. If one of them changes you have to update references. Sometimes you have to update references even though target and source itself have not changed, e.g. something new has popped up. Of course for a few special cases support tools can be written, but in general it needs manual work. Documentation is not type safe like Pascal. FPDoc is about documentation of the source code, documentation of the LCL, etc. The Wiki is used for documenting e.g. the usage of the IDE. You can't do this using FPDoc. Well, at least not that comfortable. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:57 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Contributors for source documentation need to edit the fpdoc files (e.g. those from the SVN checkout) and commit the changes (either as patch or directly if they have SVN write access). Regarding that this discussion started in the issue how to allow more contributors to enhance the documentation and thus improve the situation of the Missing Documentation (see subject), IMHO this goes in the wrong direction. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012, Michael Schnell wrote: On 02/29/2012 12:54 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Michael already wrote in one of the recent discussions that he wants to create a webpage (using fpweb of course ;) ) that will allow to edit the FPDoc help entries (I'll try to find the mail). Also there is always the way that works today: edit the entry yourself and provide a patch. Once you've shown enough interest in documentation work you might be granted SVN access to the documentation directory. To me this sounds totally wrong. I will not provide a patch for something that I can't decently review first. This wastes the time of the reviewing core member. Do you simetimes actually listen to what we say here ? You can perfectly review your changes in at least 2 ways: 1. Hover the mouse over the identifier in the IDE. The IDE will show you the updated entry of fpdoc. 2. Simply generate the docs in whatever format you want. If DoDi can, then so can you. It's not black magic, it's using Dodi's tool, makefiles or in the worst case write a batch file that generates the docs for you. All needed tools are in subversion. Generating HTML docs is very easy. All you need is fpdoc. It is even documented, would you believe it... Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 12:25 geschrieben: [...] There only can be a single source for the help Where do you get this attitude? You are using open source, you should know better. [...] Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. I talked about showing / seeing my modifications. Michael, PLEASE try to use the tools before complaining about them. The hints were always showing the current fpdoc files. I will not ever try to do any modifications unless I am able to see the result life. And I did invest a decent amount of time trying to generate offline help from the svn sources and failed multiple times (in action with DocView, even trying to find out how this should be done with CHM.) Supposedly I am just too stupid for this task :( Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why the Java became so strong?
I'm thinking here, a tool like we have on php.net that allows everyone to post comments on wiki pages should be good to keep somethings as it goes by now. many people post case of use of functions, alternate routines, when they shouldn't be used, etc. it's easy enable user's comment on lazarus' wiki pages? 2012/2/29, Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de: On 02/28/2012 05:25 PM, William Oliveira Ferreira wrote: sometimes all lazarus' users wanna see core team do something that themselves can Of course there are many outside the core team who would be able and willing to help improving the documentation. But to allow them to do this, there needs to be a decent infrastructure for writing/modifying the help sources, compiling and viewing the result (as Offline help in Lazarus) and providing the additions to be reviewed by the powers. This includes all help aspects (like Language, IDE, Compiler, RTL, LCL, user-additions, ...) -Michael -- William de Oliveira Ferreira Bacharel em Sistemas de Informação -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 01:04 PM, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: Do you simetimes actually listen to what we say here ? Seemingly I misunderstood and you are right to be angry . You can perfectly review your changes in at least 2 ways: 1. Hover the mouse over the identifier in the IDE. The IDE will show you the updated entry of fpdoc. The IDE knows the files FPDoc writes ? This is so advanced that I never considered it. I'll try ASAP. (Marking your mail as important) 2. Simply generate the docs in whatever format you want. If DoDi can, then so can you. It's not black magic, it's using Dodi's tool, makefiles or in the worst case write a batch file that generates the docs for you. What I tried to accomplish was doing an addition to the LCL and the RTL offline help. I do admit that when Graeme (unsuccessfully) tried to lead me through the process of generating all those inf files for FPDoc, I did not decently try to generate CHM files (learning not before recently that the IDE in fact can search multiple of those in one action). All needed tools are in subversion. Generating HTML docs is very easy. All you need is fpdoc. It is even documented, would you believe it... sounds nice :) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Is FreeBSD supported?
Am 29.02.12 12:17, schrieb Marco van de Voort: On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:37:19AM +0100, Helmut Hartl wrote: You may get trouble with threaded applications crashing with fpc 2.6, and FreeBSD 9 which comes from a bad/incomplete semaphore definition IIRC. Did you debug that yourself? I didn't merge it because the patch doesn't look sane to me. To be honest no - I asked for hint's why our software does not run on freebsd 9 and provided a gdb stacktrace. Pierre Muller answered he made a patch for the above mentionend, in a specific revision. (svn diff -r 19175:19176 bsd_sem_patch.diff ) -- Date:22.09.11 12:37 Committer: pierre svn revno: 19176 (on /trunk) * Fix failure of webtbs/tw17560: the C structure sem (also TSemaphore record) used in cthreads unit inside cIntSemaphoreInit function via a GetMem(sizeof(TSempahore). sem was a simple cint value which lead to memoryt overwriting past end of allocated memory in sem_XXX calls. -- I looked over it, tested our software and I found no negative behaviour until today so I simply respected pierre's word and advice. Without that patch, nearly every multithreaded app crashes on FreeBSD 9 on application startup. helmut -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 12:57 geschrieben: On 02/29/2012 12:54 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Michael already wrote in one of the recent discussions that he wants to create a webpage (using fpweb of course ;) ) that will allow to edit the FPDoc help entries (I'll try to find the mail). Also there is always the way that works today: edit the entry yourself and provide a patch. Once you've shown enough interest in documentation work you might be granted SVN access to the documentation directory. To me this sounds totally wrong. I will not provide a patch for something that I can't decently review first. This wastes the time of the reviewing core member. Is it just me or are your excuses for not-contributing getting desperate? Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 12:57, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 12:54 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Michael already wrote in one of the recent discussions that he wants to create a webpage (using fpweb of course ) that will allow to edit the FPDoc help entries (I'll try to find the mail). Also there is always the way that works today: edit the entry yourself and provide a patch. Once you've shown enough interest in documentation work you might be granted SVN access to the documentation directory. To me this sounds totally wrong. I will not provide a patch for something that I can't decently review first. This wastes the time of the reviewing core member. As already written: * either use the editor hints of the IDE which work on the FPDoc files in %laz%\doc\xml * or build the help files yourself Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am 29.02.2012 13:01, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 12:57 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Contributors for source documentation need to edit the fpdoc files (e.g. those from the SVN checkout) and commit the changes (either as patch or directly if they have SVN write access). Regarding that this discussion started in the issue how to allow more contributors to enhance the documentation and thus improve the situation of the Missing Documentation (see subject), IMHO this goes in the wrong direction. As I already wrote in another mail Michael Van Canneyt plans to write a webpage which allows for easy contributions to the FPDoc based documentation. Here is a link to the mail: http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2012-February/070600.html Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 12:59 PM, Sven Barth wrote: As already written: * either use the editor hints of the IDE which work on the FPDoc files in %laz%\doc\xml * or build the help files yourself Obvious best option: * do nothing. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Sven Barth pascaldra...@googlemail.com hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 13:42 geschrieben: Am 29.02.2012 12:57, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 02/29/2012 12:54 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Michael already wrote in one of the recent discussions that he wants to create a webpage (using fpweb of course ) that will allow to edit the FPDoc help entries (I'll try to find the mail). Also there is always the way that works today: edit the entry yourself and provide a patch. Once you've shown enough interest in documentation work you might be granted SVN access to the documentation directory. To me this sounds totally wrong. I will not provide a patch for something that I can't decently review first. This wastes the time of the reviewing core member. As already written: * either use the editor hints of the IDE which work on the FPDoc files in %laz%\doc\xml It works on all fpdoc files of all Lazarus packages (e.g. tachart, ideintf). If you add the path to the fpdocs svn it will work for RTL and FCL too. * or build the help files yourself Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 29 February 2012 13:25, Michael Schnell wrote: offline help from the svn sources and failed multiple times (in action with DocView, even trying to find out how this should be done with CHM.) I created new LCL help in INF format over the weekend, using fpdoc from latest 2.7.1. The only issue I came across was due to a malformed xml file in LCL. I minor tweak, splitting one line into two lines by pressing Enter, of the generated lcl.ipf file, and I could compile that to a binary INF file - no problems. I have no idea what was all the fuss a week or two ago about restructuring the LCL help. Maybe it is something specific with HTML output, but I didn't experience any real issues with the IPF output. The new INF help generated from fpdoc files, now have a nice hyperlinked class hierarchy as well with each class description. A patch for fpdoc will be supplied soon. Supposedly I am just too stupid for this task :( That could possibly be. ;-) -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SynEdit painting while paintlocked
On 29/02/2012 07:01, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: Hi, I got a lazarus update this morning, and rebuilt the IDE via the Tools menu. While it was compiling, I was scrolling the editor window. Then suddenly the IDE froze up! Luckily I ran the IDE from a console window, and saw the following warning message. In the end I had to kill the Lazarus process. ... Warning: SynEdit.Paint called during PaintLock This is a recoverable message (and unfortunately, not helping to trace the hang problem). It doesn't even indicate if the issue is in SynEdi or not... Something called SynEdit.BeginUpdate, and either did not call EndUpdate or did call ProcessMessages. While in an Update SynEdit can not paint (BeginUpdate is to speed up things, so it defers all updates, like highlighter scan, until all changes are done. This avoids doing the work over and over again) If SynEdit gets a pain event in Paintlock it just paints the area blank, and remembers it. On EndUpdate, it will issue an Invalidate to fix the situation. So it is not clear who called the BeginUpdate. It is also not clear if this was cause or reaction. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SourceEditor: strange gap on right hand side
On 29/02/2012 08:30, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: 2012/2/28 Martin : It can be switched on and off in the IDE options. It does show (for the entire file): - position of breakpoints - position of bookmarks - changes (unsaved/saved) per line - implementation/interface/initialization (shaded grey) - current visible page (shaded grey) I don't know who implemented this, but it is a nice feature. Beyond Compare has such an overview bar for a long time, at it works very nice in BC. One suggestion (though I know it is probably still work-in-process) from my experience with Beyond Compare... make it clickable. So when you click on a bookmark area, the editor jumps to that area instantly. Clickable is on the todo. But the feature is currently low prior. In fact what is there today, has all been developed long ago and lived in Ifdef... -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 02:53 PM, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: None of this is an excuse for not contributing. You are perfectly right, but ... (see my answer to Graeme). -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] editor toolbar's buttons glyph
On 29 February 2012 16:07, William Oliveira Ferreira wrote: Sure, here it is... OK, as I suspected... most of your toolbar actions you chose are not from the IDEMainMenu, but rather from other popup menus like the SourceEditor. Such popup menus (like in the case of the Source Editor), don't have glyphs assigned to them - thus the toolbar gives the default thunderbolt glyph. The most reliable location (with glyphs) is the IDEMainMenu tree hierarchy - but then again, not all menu items have glyphs associated with them. Attached is a semi-fixed version, where I replaced the Cut/Copy/Paste actions, to rather use the IDEMainMenu entries. They now display the correct glyphs. If you don't understand what I mean, please do a comparison between the attached XML file, and the one you currently have. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net ?xml version=1.0? CONFIG Count=14 Button01 Value=IDEMainMenu/Edit/itmEditClipboard/itmEditCut/ Button02 Value=IDEMainMenu/Edit/itmEditClipboard/itmEditCopy/ Button03 Value=IDEMainMenu/Edit/itmEditClipboard/itmEditPaste/ Button04 Value=---/ Button05 Value=SourceEditor/Clipboard/Copy filename/ Button06 Value=---/ Button07 Value=SourceEditor/First static section/InsertToDo/ Button08 Value=IDEMainMenu/Source/itmSourceBlockActions/itmSourceToggleComment/ Button09 Value=---/ Button10 Value=SourceEditor/First static section/Find section/FindIdentifierReferences/ Button11 Value=SourceEditor/First static section/Find Declaration/ Button12 Value=---/ Button13 Value=SourceEditor/Pages/Close Page/ Button14 Value=SourceEditor/Pages/Close All Other Pages/ /CONFIG -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
2012/2/29 Marco van de Voort mar...@stack.nl The term you look for is community driven project, not hobby. Many people working on larger open source project can do so in a professional environment. It is just that the project direction is not owned by a company. Note that many hybrids exist (like e.g. Canonical Ubuntu and Redhat's Fedora). Marco, do you have more experience of the project management issues in community driven projects? Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] String grids
Is there any way (hopefully easy) to change the background colour of a specific cell in a stringgrid? procedure TForm1.SG1PrepareCanvas(sender: TObject; aCol, aRow: Integer; aState: TGridDrawState); begin SG1.Canvas.brush.color := clWhite; If (aCol = 4) and (aRow = 1) Then SG1.Canvas.Brush.color := clRed; end; The PrepareCanvas may be used. /Kaj -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Juha Manninen schrieb: Now, your answers indicate you don't really know what you want. How does fixing a bug or creating a new feature become easier if it is listed in a project management GUI? It doesn't, you still have to learn and edit the code. This is where documentation is helpful. The LCL is so complex nowadays, that a newbie cannot figure out everything himself. I filled my own and Mattias' data in the developers page. It is the organization chart that was requested: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Developer_pages Then there is the roadmap page. It already contains tasks and people responsible for them. It is not up to date but can be updated: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Roadmap My experience with unmanaged open source projects is a roadmap that contains all the tasks, which the experienced coders don't want to do themselves, or for which they have no concept at all. Nothing like tasks for newcomers :-( DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Michael Schnell schrieb: On 02/28/2012 10:59 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: What's missing from the current documentation tools? After doing an addition to the help sources (supposedly using FPDoc, I did not yet try to use it, but found the discussions on your recent improvements to it very encouraging), how to (quite automatically) create from the svn sources (with my additions) a combined Lazarus offline help (in order to test the additions) that includes all aspects like Help-on-Help, FPC-Language, IDE, RTL, LCL, user additions, ... ? That's what I wrote the FPDocManager for. It allows to create local documentation, except for the language and other issues which are not based on code and for which the sources are unavailable. I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF or CHM. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Can't compile trunk with fpc 2.4.5 under ubuntu
Michael Schnell schrieb: Maybe he would be better off using ANSIString(0) or ANSIString($) to be sure that his doing will not be influenced by the locale setting of the system the code is compiled on or runs on. AnsiString(0) should be okay, but other encodings may require overloaded string functions - or the string will be converted automatically. Just _hoping_ that the code generated by XE2 for ANSIString will not be a lot slower that that generated by Delphi 2009 for String. The XE code is the same for AnsiString(0). Other encodings are either ignored, when functions with RawByteString arguments are present, or are converted automatically what most probably causes wrong results. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Mattias Gaertner schrieb: And it it does open: Is the helpful user supposed to use the wiki to improve the help text ? This would make the Wiki database the primary help source. It is since many years. This IMO is a bad idea, as long as many Lazarus versions are used concurrently, with different dialog content :-( DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Michael Schnell schrieb: On 02/29/2012 11:26 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: The wiki is frequently edited by many people and already contains more than 2500 pages. It makes no sense to shut it down. But if there is no way to keep it in sync with the FPDoc files, how is the future of either considered to be ? Oh Herr, schmeiß Hirn ra! Dear Michael, you're disqualifying yourself with such inappropriate questions :-( Please try to understand first, that FPDoc is the only source for *code documentation*, and that all changes to the XML files are reflected immediately, in the FPDoc editor and hint windows. Every user can update these files and submit the patches. WRT to offline documentation (by F1), every user is responsible for updating his local help himself. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Mattias Gaertner schrieb: Not having top priority and being NOT interested are two different things. AFAIK everyone agreed that having all help offline would be nice feature. ACK The wiki is frequently edited by many people and already contains more than 2500 pages. It makes no sense to shut it down. Nobody asked to shut down the wiki. But since it can be used only while online, the wiki should *not* be the primary source for context sensitive help. Disregarding users like Graeme, who AFAIR is almost working offline, is another reason that prevents Lazarus from becoming more widely recognized and accepted. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] String grids
Thanks! /Dave. -Original Message- From: k...@vgdata.dk Reply-to: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org To: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org Subject: Re: [Lazarus] String grids Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 16:39:11 +0100 (CET) Is there any way (hopefully easy) to change the background colour of a specific cell in a stringgrid? procedure TForm1.SG1PrepareCanvas(sender: TObject; aCol, aRow: Integer; aState: TGridDrawState); begin SG1.Canvas.brush.color := clWhite; If (aCol = 4) and (aRow = 1) Then SG1.Canvas.Brush.color := clRed; end; The PrepareCanvas may be used. /Kaj -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- David Copeland JSI Data Systems Limited 613-727-9353. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 29-2-2012 14:02, Michael Schnell wrote: On 02/29/2012 12:59 PM, Sven Barth wrote: As already written: * either use the editor hints of the IDE which work on the FPDoc files in %laz%\doc\xml * or build the help files yourself Obvious best option: * do nothing. -Michael I'm sorry, but then I suggest you stop bothering the list with your posts... People have been bending over backwards to explain to you the various options and you just don't want to accept any of it. You don't want to contribute patches, you don't want to edit wiki pages, anything other people suggest is a problem. Perhaps it's best if you start your own project, become wildly succesful and show us how things should be organized. I have some problems with certain documentation aspects as well, but I try to help (submit documentation, patches to lazdoceditor)... You seem to assume some kind of privileged group is out to keep everybody from improving form and content of the help, while I think that getting used to the way things are done takes some time but is perfectly acceptable. Seems you're not interested in working with people but want things to be done your way... shame. Hope you can see your way clear to get that help going and contribute something... Regards, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 02/29/2012 04:15 PM, Reinier Olislagers wrote: I'm sorry, but then I suggest you stop bothering the list with your posts... Agreed. - Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Can't compile trunk with fpc 2.4.5 under ubuntu
On 02/29/2012 03:40 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: The XE code is the same for AnsiString(0). Other encodings are either ignored, when functions with RawByteString arguments are present, or are converted automatically what most probably causes wrong results. RawByteString = ANSIString($) Same can't get converted to any predefined coding, as it's coding is not known. The other part of (e.g.) a + can't get converted either (as there is no point in converting it to $. No Idea what the result looks like, if it's defined by type $. If it gets some other dynamic encoding tag but $ this could be considered contradicting it's type (which is ANSIString($) ), otherwise ANSIString($) could be considered truly dynamically typed which I remember you denied in another discussion. Sorry that I can't test this with XE2 :( . -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
On 02/29/2012 02:14 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF or CHM. Not one file but e.g. one multiple-file viewer. It should be possible to search for information (keyword combinations) across the different files. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Michael Schnell schrieb: It's a bit frustrating to see Graeme, DoDi, Sven and others try to improve the help itself and especially the help generation process, while I can't see the common final goal in focus (one or more online and offline versatile help viewers / file formats being fed and automatically synced from a well defined source tree for all issues (help on help, ide, compiler, language, rtl, lcl, user additions, ...) Please specify what *exactly* you feel missing, *after* becoming more familiar with the *current* state, not based on weird assumptions :-( DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 13:07 +0100 schrieb Mattias Gaertner: Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 12:25 geschrieben: [...] There only can be a single source for the help Where do you get this attitude? You are using open source, you should know better. [...] Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. I talked about showing / seeing my modifications. Michael, PLEASE try to use the tools before complaining about them. The hints were always showing the current fpdoc files. Reading about this type of confusion - count me in - I need to ask: Where is the process of building up help files documented? Seen from my current knowledge there are many new tools and facts I do not know or understand. If not already done or trivial, I'd suggest writing or better drawing a chart of the targets, sources and tools to use when wanting to write documentation. Although this may sound ugly to some of you, some sort of graph with notes and explanations would be very easy readable and understandable. For now I stepped back to something that came to my mind very early as a task attractive for me. Taht is writing some (short) tutorials on topics where I myself have had problems understanding inner workings of components or documentation already written. -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 15:45 +0200 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys: On 29 February 2012 15:36, Michael Schnell wrote: [ I apologise if I sound frustrated with you, but it probably is because I am. ] LOL * fpdoc is well documented. So usage should not be a problem. * LCL, fpGUI etc all come with easy scripts to generate the class documentation in various formats. * RTL, LCL docs come as pre-built binary help for your convenience, but you can build them yourself too. That too is documented. * Docview (binary release download) includes the docview.inf help file, describing in detail every feature of docview (thus help on help). It even includes a section called For Authors and Developers, where it again explains in detail how to use the IPF Compiler to compile your IPF help source into binary INF help files. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! Hm, for me it looks like it is. And I'm not a total newbie. The only type of project management stuff needed is some quickly understandable documentation about the processes that are used. Developers of ölazarus do know, they use it. For me as a user of lazarus, using it to make progrms and source libraries, it is pretty confusing to follow the threads about these non documented workflows. -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Marc Santhoff schrieb: Where is the process of building up help files documented? Seen from my current knowledge there are many new tools and facts I do not know or understand. In the source directories, i.e. in $fpcdocs (wherever you checked it out), or in Lazarus/docs/html. The procedures vary, depending on the platform. If not already done or trivial, I'd suggest writing or better drawing a chart of the targets, sources and tools to use when wanting to write documentation. See e.g. http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Documentation, in detail 7 Missing documentation? Although this may sound ugly to some of you, some sort of graph with notes and explanations would be very easy readable and understandable. Right, but I don't want to contribute to the wiki, because it is too unstructured, and I cannot find in it what I need :-( DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Michael Schnell schrieb: On 02/29/2012 02:14 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF or CHM. Not one file but e.g. one multiple-file viewer. It should be possible to search for information (keyword combinations) across the different files. I'm not familiar with CHM, don't know how this could be achieved. But I assume that such a feature should be available already - who knows more? DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 17:54 geschrieben: [...] Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. I talked about showing / seeing my modifications. Michael, PLEASE try to use the tools before complaining about them. The hints were always showing the current fpdoc files. Reading about this type of confusion - count me in - I need to ask: You are welcome to ask. I hope your confusion is a completely different one. Where is the process of building up help files documented? The hints use the fpdoc files, which are simple text files, which can be edited by the fpdoc editor or lazde or the source editor. What process do you mean? Seen from my current knowledge there are many new tools and facts I do not know or understand. What new tool are you speaking of? [...] For now I stepped back to something that came to my mind very early as a task attractive for me. Taht is writing some (short) tutorials on topics where I myself have had problems understanding inner workings of components or documentation already written. Great! Have you seen the tutorials in the wiki? You may extend an existing or add a new. Because of spammers, the wiki requires to register an account. That's all you need to write a tutorial. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Hans-Peter Diettrich drdiettri...@aol.com hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 18:17 geschrieben: Michael Schnell schrieb: On 02/29/2012 02:14 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF or CHM. Not one file but e.g. one multiple-file viewer. It should be possible to search for information (keyword combinations) across the different files. I'm not familiar with CHM, don't know how this could be achieved. But I assume that such a feature should be available already - who knows more? Google can search in the wiki and the fpdoc pages on the server. For the offline version a tool is needed. Several people are implementing search engines. I have no recommendation yet. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] String grids
There's a lot more you can do with String Grids http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Grids_Reference_Page 2012/2/29 David Copeland david.copel...@jsidata.ca Thanks! /Dave. -- Atenciosamente, Alexsander da Rosa http://rednaxel.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 18:22 +0100 schrieb Mattias Gaertner: Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de hat am 29. Februar 2012 um 17:54 geschrieben: [...] Showing is simple: Just move the mouse over an identifier. About destroying: You apparently have not tried it. I talked about showing / seeing my modifications. Michael, PLEASE try to use the tools before complaining about them. The hints were always showing the current fpdoc files. Reading about this type of confusion - count me in - I need to ask: You are welcome to ask. I hope your confusion is a completely different one. g Hopefully yes. ;) (note to myself: wash your keyboard with soap for making naughty jokes) Where is the process of building up help files documented? The hints use the fpdoc files, which are simple text files, which can be edited by the fpdoc editor or lazde or the source editor. What process do you mean? I'm talking of the big picture, what type of sources are used, which tool is available and what does it do, ... Not on detail level, but there seem to be misunderstandings regarding the overview. But I'll have to review existing material in a more organized and systematic manner to name whats missing exactly. Seen from my current knowledge there are many new tools and facts I do not know or understand. What new tool are you speaking of? One name I remember (from huge masses of emails) is FPDocManager. Is that a class or a tool? [...] For now I stepped back to something that came to my mind very early as a task attractive for me. Taht is writing some (short) tutorials on topics where I myself have had problems understanding inner workings of components or documentation already written. Great! Have you seen the tutorials in the wiki? Yes. You may extend an existing or add a new. Because of spammers, the wiki requires to register an account. That's all you need to write a tutorial. Done. Don't expect some results tomorrow. ;) -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 18:15 +0100 schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Marc Santhoff schrieb: Where is the process of building up help files documented? Seen from my current knowledge there are many new tools and facts I do not know or understand. In the source directories, i.e. in $fpcdocs (wherever you checked it out), or in Lazarus/docs/html. The procedures vary, depending on the platform. I'm not oinly thinking of myself here, in parallel stepping in for new contributors is targeted. If anyone wanting to help has to ask first, then there is some part of the documentation missing, me thinks. If not already done or trivial, I'd suggest writing or better drawing a chart of the targets, sources and tools to use when wanting to write documentation. See e.g. http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Documentation, in detail 7 Missing documentation? Will read thoroughly, thanks. Although this may sound ugly to some of you, some sort of graph with notes and explanations would be very easy readable and understandable. Right, but I don't want to contribute to the wiki, because it is too unstructured, and I cannot find in it what I need :-( That's what I was saying, there could be some index pages. But after looking ati those index pages are already there, you named one. No idea of a better organization of the wiki yet ... -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Em 28/02/2012 16:06, Mattias Gaertner escreveu: On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:43:48 +0100 Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de wrote: Hi again, since there were multiple complaints about missing documentation, where can I find a list of what is missing exactly in detail? Is there a wiki page about it? Or a docs page collecting empty descriptions or the like? Sometimes I'm bored, maybe there are items I'm able to add a couple of useful words to ... You are welcome. If you want to write a tutorial about some topic or extend/update one existing, here are the existing: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Documentation If you want to help with the source documentation, e.g. write some examples or add/extend description, there are fpdoc files. DoDi has added notes for the LCL fpdoc files, where he misses documentation/clarification. See lazarus/docs/xml/lcl. Many other packages in the Lazarus sources need fpdoc entries too. If you want to write some help about an IDE dialog: Use F1 to open the wiki page. If it does not open, or opens the wrong page, just write an email, so I can fix it. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus I would like to see a documentation format like php ( http://php.net/manual/en ): collaborative and with usage examples and discussions. -- Guionardo Furlan Web-design e Hospedagem Desenvolvimento Lazarus/Freepascal, PHP Projetista SolidWorks Timeo hominem unius libri Site: guionardofurlan.com.br Blog: guionardo.blogspot.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 29 February 2012 18:59, Marc Santhoff wrote: Developers of ölazarus do know, they use it. For me as a user of lazarus, using it to make progrms and source libraries, it is pretty confusing to follow the threads about these non documented workflows. All the various documentations I mentioned at least have some readme file in the related directory explaining how each is used. Yes, it's not a 300 page book, but it is basic instructions on how to generate documentation for each of RTL, FCL, LCL, etc. All you need to do, is browse the folder, find the readme file, read it and follow the instructions. How else did I figure it out. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
On 28 February 2012 18:43, Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de wrote: Hi again, since there were multiple complaints about missing documentation, where can I find a list of what is missing exactly in detail? Is there a wiki page about it? Or a docs page collecting empty descriptions or the like? Sometimes I'm bored, maybe there are items I'm able to add a couple of useful words to ... TIA, Marc -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus I asked this question in the FPC mailing list a few hours ago, and I am here to ask the same question about Lazarus. Hopefully I won't press the Send button in Gmail before I finish. It is becoming obvious as shown in this thread that good documentation about Lazarus Documentation and more importantly the process, tools and procedures by which it is generated is lacking and that together with some documentation about how the Lazarus project itself is organized is necessary before any meaningful and friction free progress can be made. I have thought about starting a new thread but this one seems as good as any. 1. Are they created by a tool or hand edited? what are the tools used? 2. Is there some page where the original docs are created? 3. Are they text files that are stored under version control? 4. Is there some page where previous versions are available? 5. How is it structured, what are the formatting rules? Is based on standards like DocBook etc? 6. How much of the documentation is generated from the source code? Is information about input and output parameters, and a few lines about its usage and gotchas generated from source, or does all procedures need to be documented by hand using FPDoc? Graeme mentions IPF that in his view does a better job? Do other preferably Pascal based projects use other tools with which they have had more success? 7. Are there other tools that can do a better job, such as Jira, Github etc? 8. I assume that docs are generated by some build tool once created. Does the submitter compile the docs on their own system and test that they are fine before getting them committed into the repository? Are the tools used identical (I see messages in the mailing list about contributors being using different versions of the tools)? I guess these are the questions I want to ask. -- Frank Church === http://devblog.brahmancreations.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:32:47 +0100 From: Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation To: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org Message-ID: 1330540367.57395.61.ca...@zaphod.das.netz Content-Type: text/plain Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 18:15 +0100 schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Marc Santhoff schrieb: That's what I was saying, there could be some index pages. But after looking ati those index pages are already there, you named one. No idea of a better organization of the wiki yet ... (Not that I'm volunteering, mind you, but ...) Is it possible to get a listing of all of the wiki pages? Every time I search the wiki or get terse responses to my questions (ie: RTFW - read the FINE wiki), I suspect there is a lot more info in the wiki than I find with my search queries. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Marc Santhoff schrieb: One name I remember (from huge masses of emails) is FPDocManager. Is that a class or a tool? It's a project in examples/fpdocmanager. It shall allow even newbies to create their own local documentation. It also allows FPDoc documentation writers to create skeletons for packages or projects, and to syntax check their updates. These are what I was missing most, when working on the documentation myself. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Mattias Gaertner schrieb: search for information (keyword combinations) across the different files. I'm not familiar with CHM, don't know how this could be achieved. But I assume that such a feature should be available already - who knows more? Google can search in the wiki and the fpdoc pages on the server. Delphi doesn't seem to have problems with a search across helpfiles. Every help system provides at least a keyword search, so that IMO it is only a question of providing the right (merged?) keyword lists. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 13:47 -0600 schrieb John Repucci: Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:32:47 +0100 From: Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation To: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org Message-ID: 1330540367.57395.61.ca...@zaphod.das.netz Content-Type: text/plain Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 18:15 +0100 schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Marc Santhoff schrieb: That's what I was saying, there could be some index pages. But after looking ati those index pages are already there, you named one. No idea of a better organization of the wiki yet ... (Not that I'm volunteering, mind you, but ...) Is it possible to get a listing of all of the wiki pages? Every time I search the wiki or get terse responses to my questions (ie: RTFW - read the FINE wiki), I suspect there is a lot more info in the wiki than I find with my search queries. A complete index, yes. To the right on http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/ under the headline Navigation there is a link to it. But you have to type in at least one char to see something, because there are so much pages that a full a-z index would be far too huge to show in one page. Example for typing only an a and hitting search: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpagesfrom=anamespace=0 -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Missing Documentation
Am Mittwoch, den 29.02.2012, 20:43 +0100 schrieb Hans-Peter Diettrich: Marc Santhoff schrieb: One name I remember (from huge masses of emails) is FPDocManager. Is that a class or a tool? It's a project in examples/fpdocmanager. It shall allow even newbies to create their own local documentation. It also allows FPDoc documentation writers to create skeletons for packages or projects, and to syntax check their updates. These are what I was missing most, when working on the documentation myself. Sonds promising, I'll try it. Thank you. -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
