Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
2012/4/3 Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org: On Tue, 3 Apr 2012, waldo kitty wrote: On 4/3/2012 09:57, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: On Tue, 3 Apr 2012, fred f wrote: I need to set up LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 on Ubuntu 64bit, but there LIBC is not supported and therefore I am looking for SetEnv which I can use on 64bit Linux. SysUtils contains only GetEnvironmentVariable, but not Set... That's not how it works on Unix/Linux. You must always set up environment variables before a program starts. When starting a process, the environment for that process is started and is then immutable for the duration of the process. ewww... so no fancy capabilities like we could do in the old DOS days where we could change the base environment as well as cloning it with changes for child processes??? if so, that's blows several of my porting projects up :? :( Not possible on Posix platforms. Now I'm confused. AFAICS (http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/setenv.html) Posix setenv() allows a process to mutate its environment variables. I probably misunderstood something, can someone enlighten me please? -- jan -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strange dependency of units
On 04/03/2012 04:26 PM, Bart wrote: I have learned over the past years, that it makes sense to use sepreate units (or ifdef them) for GUI (and thus possibly widgetset) related code and pure pascal (as in: non-GUI non-LCL). The separating GUI and business code paradigm is under permanent discussion in the software industry since years. Separation is very advantages for large and/or professional projects. But it contradicts the idea of RAD (Rapid Application Development) that initially drove the invention of Delphi. Same is very useful for projects dedicated to starting, learning/teaching, prototyping, testing Pascal code, testing attached devices, staying small, etc. IMHO this is true by far the most projects ever started. Very unfortunately many 3rd party products available for free or payed don't adhere to the separating GUI and business code paradigm. Unfortunately many projects start small and at some point get so big that separating GUI and business code would be appropriate, but with an advanced project, the effort is a lot harder to do. This is especially true if it it turns out that the final product needs to be used as a service/daemon. Here the upcoming Custom Drawn Widget set some day might help to allow for some kind of GUI remoting, and by simply switching the Lazarus Widget Type the GUI can be cut off. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 04/03/2012 03:31 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: What part of offline wiki do you want to help with? Those that I can be sure of being included in the online help by some automated mechanism. Here of course my theme would be Queued Mainthread Events, Threads-communication, and friends. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 04/04/2012 10:38 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: On 04/03/2012 03:31 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: What part of offline wiki do you want to help with? Those that I can be sure of being included in the online help by some automated mechanism. Grr. Of course I meant to write offline help. I was confused by your mentioning offline Wiki. What do you mean by this ? -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 04/03/2012 04:26 PM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: Or I am missing something? AFAIU, some parts of the online documentation can't be included in the offline help yet. (There should be help (at least) on the topics: Using the help system, IDE, FPC Language, RTL functions LCL functions.) To me the biggest problem is, that there is no automatic process (yet), and seemingly not even agreed upon, to create all these topics of the offline help - that have been updated by helpful contributors, and included into some svn by the powers - by means of an (at least partly) automated command. I really don't want to discuss this here (again), but I'd like to stay tuned in case the powers decide upon such a process. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:38:13 +0200 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 04/03/2012 03:31 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: What part of offline wiki do you want to help with? Those that I can be sure of being included in the online help by some automated mechanism. Here of course my theme would be Queued Mainthread Events, Threads-communication, and friends. All normal pages and images will be included in the offline wiki. Special pages, like help, random, category, user, user_talk will not be included. All translated pages will be included as well. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:40:49 +0200 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 04/04/2012 10:38 AM, Michael Schnell wrote: On 04/03/2012 03:31 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: What part of offline wiki do you want to help with? Those that I can be sure of being included in the online help by some automated mechanism. Grr. Of course I meant to write offline help. I was confused by your mentioning offline Wiki. What do you mean by this ? A snapshot of the wiki with a search. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, Honza wrote: 2012/4/3 Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org: On Tue, 3 Apr 2012, waldo kitty wrote: On 4/3/2012 09:57, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: On Tue, 3 Apr 2012, fred f wrote: I need to set up LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 on Ubuntu 64bit, but there LIBC is not supported and therefore I am looking for SetEnv which I can use on 64bit Linux. SysUtils contains only GetEnvironmentVariable, but not Set... That's not how it works on Unix/Linux. You must always set up environment variables before a program starts. When starting a process, the environment for that process is started and is then immutable for the duration of the process. ewww... so no fancy capabilities like we could do in the old DOS days where we could change the base environment as well as cloning it with changes for child processes??? if so, that's blows several of my porting projects up :? :( Not possible on Posix platforms. Now I'm confused. AFAICS (http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/setenv.html) Posix setenv() allows a process to mutate its environment variables. I probably misunderstood something, can someone enlighten me please? You can always modify them (it's just data in memory), but modifying them will only change your private view of the variables. The changes you make will not propagate to libraries or newly started processes. Therefor it makes no sense to change them, and the FPC runtime does not allow it. If we did allow it, people would expect DOS/Windows like behaviour, which we simply cannot provide. If you read the second part of the provided URL, you'll see that the POSIX group recognises that the behaviour of setenv() is problematical. The URL points - for restrictions - to the exec function http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/exec.html Where it says: For those forms not containing an envp pointer ( execl(), execv(), execlp(), and execvp()), the environment for the new process image shall be taken from the external variable environ in the calling process. Etc etc etc. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 04/04/2012 11:02 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: All normal pages and images will be included in the offline wiki. Does this mean that the offline Wiki is the upcoming Offline Help ? Will it be possible to press F1 on a word and the appropriate offline Wiki page will be displayed ? (I understand that it is possible to create a help plugin for the Lazarus IDE that might be able to perform this task) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
I'm sorry to mix in a discussion, but I wonder, whats the point of having an offline copy of the wiki by default? Why not simply a OpenURL(online-wiki-url); when the user presses F1? And in de menu help - help a simple form stating the help can only be viewed when there is a active internet connection. That simple form may also contain two links (Clickable labels) 1 being a link to the wiki and 2 being a link to the wikipage explaining how to download a copy of the help and modify your lazarus to use it. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 04/04/2012 11:02 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: All normal pages and images will be included in the offline wiki. Does this mean that the offline Wiki is the upcoming Offline Help ? Will it be possible to press F1 on a word and the appropriate offline Wiki page will be displayed ? (I understand that it is possible to create a help plugin for the Lazarus IDE that might be able to perform this task) -Michael -- __**_ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.**freepascal.orgLazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.**freepascal.org/mailman/**listinfo/lazarushttp://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:09:27 +0200 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: On 04/04/2012 11:02 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: All normal pages and images will be included in the offline wiki. Does this mean that the offline Wiki is the upcoming Offline Help ? No. The offline wiki is just the possibility to browse the wiki offline. Maybe it will eventually be integrated with the fpdoc help and some more helps. But without the basic offline wiki that's just a dream. Will it be possible to press F1 on a word and the appropriate offline Wiki page will be displayed ? (I understand that it is possible to create a help plugin for the Lazarus IDE that might be able to perform this task) There is no 1:1 mapping between word and wiki page. At the moment there are two searches for the offline wiki pages. Both have their pros and cons. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 12:21:28 +0200 Rimmert Ooink laza...@ooink.net wrote: I'm sorry to mix in a discussion, but I wonder, whats the point of having an offline copy of the wiki by default? Why not simply a OpenURL(online-wiki-url); when the user presses F1? That's the current implementation. Some users do not have a 24/7 good internet connection. And in de menu help - help a simple form stating the help can only be viewed when there is a active internet connection. That simple form may also contain two links (Clickable labels) 1 being a link to the wiki and 2 being a link to the wikipage explaining how to download a copy of the help and modify your lazarus to use it. Yes, once the offline wiki is available some hints where to get it will be added. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be: Thank you for the help. Unfortunately I'm now confused even more. I believe it's my fault, not yours. You can always modify them (it's just data in memory), but modifying them will only change your private view of the variables. The changes you make will not propagate to libraries or newly started processes. If library means a .so (or .dll, but Windows are not that much of a Posix system), then it is in in-process space, so I would think the change *does* propagate, i.e. the change is observable by a call to getenv() from inside a library function. About started processes see below. Therefor it makes no sense to change them, and the FPC runtime does not allow it. If we did allow it, people would expect DOS/Windows like behaviour, which we simply cannot provide. If you read the second part of the provided URL, you'll see that the POSIX group recognises that the behaviour of setenv() is problematical. The URL points - for restrictions - to the exec function http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/exec.html Where it says: For those forms not containing an envp pointer ( execl(), execv(), execlp(), and execvp()), the environment for the new process image shall be taken from the external variable environ in the calling process. The extrn char **environ (just environ from now on) points to the environment variables of the executing process. Setenv may mutates this environment. The various forms of exec do have either explicit envp, so one can create any required environment vars set, or pass the current environ, effectively enabling the inheritance of the (posibly mutated) environment as an option. The other forms, w/o envp, are defined to do exactly that, i.e. they will use the current environ as their environment vars pointer, effectively forcing the inheritance of the (possibly mutated) environment. (the environment for the new process image shall be taken from the external variable environ in the calling process) I honestly presume I'm extra dumb today, anyway it still seems to me like the opposite of what was said in this thread is true: Environment variables can be mutated, the changes are visible in a library (.so or and maybe in a .dll too) and with exec() one can choose if to pass a new environment or if the current one is to be inherited. Apologies, I don't want to sound like a troll, I just want to figure out why the same Posix specs can be seen/interpreted in two mutually exclusive ways and naturally - which one is the correct interpretation. PS: I've just cross-checked with some other language (Go if you are curious) and its std library and there seems to work all like I think the Posix specs says (http://golang.org/pkg/os/#Setenv and http://golang.org/pkg/os/exec/#Cmd) and I think the high level (and cross platform, Go programs should behave identically on Linux and Windows) wrapper of the Go 'os' package just reiterates the standard Posix behavior in a libc independent way. -- jan -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, Honza wrote: 2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be: Thank you for the help. Unfortunately I'm now confused even more. I believe it's my fault, not yours. You can always modify them (it's just data in memory), but modifying them will only change your private view of the variables. The changes you make will not propagate to libraries or newly started processes. If library means a .so (or .dll, but Windows are not that much of a Posix system), then it is in in-process space, so I would think the change *does* propagate, i.e. the change is observable by a call to getenv() from inside a library function. About started processes see below. Typically, libraries will read the environment variables at startup. Any subsequent change to the environment will not have any effect. Therefor it makes no sense to change them, and the FPC runtime does not allow it. If we did allow it, people would expect DOS/Windows like behaviour, which we simply cannot provide. If you read the second part of the provided URL, you'll see that the POSIX group recognises that the behaviour of setenv() is problematical. The URL points - for restrictions - to the exec function http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/exec.html Where it says: For those forms not containing an envp pointer ( execl(), execv(), execlp(), and execvp()), the environment for the new process image shall be taken from the external variable environ in the calling process. The extrn char **environ (just environ from now on) points to the environment variables of the executing process. Setenv may mutates this environment. The various forms of exec do have either explicit envp, so one can create any required environment vars set, or pass the current environ, effectively enabling the inheritance of the (posibly mutated) environment as an option. The other forms, w/o envp, are defined to do exactly that, i.e. they will use the current environ as their environment vars pointer, Not the current. The EXTERNAL variable environ, i.e. the one that the kernel passed on, which cannot be modified. You can only modify your local copy. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 04/04/2012 11:26, Mattias Gaertner wrote: There is no 1:1 mapping between word and wiki page. At the moment there are two searches for the offline wiki pages. Both have their pros and cons. There are mappings between some IDE windows and wiki though -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be:
Not the current.
The EXTERNAL variable environ, i.e. the one that the kernel passed on,
which cannot be modified. You can only modify your local copy.
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ ls
a.c b.c
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ cat a.c
#include stdlib.h
#include stdio.h
#include unistd.h
main() {
char *e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a1: %s\n, e);
setenv(MYVAR, MYVALUE, 1);
e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a2: %s\n, e);
execv(./b.out, NULL);
}
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ cat b.c
#include stdlib.h
#include stdio.h
main() {
char *e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(b: %s\n, e);
}
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ gcc -o a.out a.c gcc -o b.out b.c ls
a.c a.out b.c b.out
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ ./a.out
a1: (null)
a2: MYVALUE
b: MYVALUE
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$
-- jan
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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
Martin laza...@mfriebe.de hat am 4. April 2012 um 13:43 geschrieben: On 04/04/2012 11:26, Mattias Gaertner wrote: There is no 1:1 mapping between word and wiki page. At the moment there are two searches for the offline wiki pages. Both have their pros and cons. There are mappings between some IDE windows and wiki though Yes. But he asked about F1 on a word, which I guess is about a word in the source editor. When the offline wiki works, I will check what needs to be done in the IDE to switch. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, Honza wrote:
2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be:
Not the current.
The EXTERNAL variable environ, i.e. the one that the kernel passed on,
which cannot be modified. You can only modify your local copy.
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ ls
a.c b.c
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ cat a.c
#include stdlib.h
#include stdio.h
#include unistd.h
main() {
char *e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a1: %s\n, e);
setenv(MYVAR, MYVALUE, 1);
e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a2: %s\n, e);
execv(./b.out, NULL);
}
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ cat b.c
#include stdlib.h
#include stdio.h
main() {
char *e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(b: %s\n, e);
}
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ gcc -o a.out a.c gcc -o b.out b.c ls
a.c a.out b.c b.out
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ ./a.out
a1: (null)
a2: MYVALUE
b: MYVALUE
14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$
Output of strace:
brk(0) = 0x21a5000
brk(0x21c6000) = 0x21c6000
write(1, a2: MYVALUE\n, 12a2: MYVALUE
) = 12
execve(./b.out, [0], [/* 57 vars */]) = 0
brk(0) = 0x189e000
access(/etc/ld.so.nohwcap, F_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
As you can see, it uses execve() behind the scenes to be able to pass the
modified
local environment.
This is libc-specific behaviour.
Michael.
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Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be:
Output of strace:
brk(0) = 0x21a5000 brk(0x21c6000)
= 0x21c6000 write(1, a2: MYVALUE\n, 12a2: MYVALUE )
= 12 execve(./b.out, [0], [/* 57 vars */]) = 0 brk(0)
= 0x189e000 access(/etc/ld.so.nohwcap, F_OK) = -1
ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
As you can see, it uses execve() behind the scenes to be able to pass the
modified
local environment.
This is libc-specific behaviour.
I think I cannot agree. IMO its a POSIX specified behavior. libc, at
least in this case, just implements the POSIX specs:
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/exec.html
And as the ouptut of executing a.out shows, libc implements it
correctly: For those forms not containing an envp pointer ( execl(),
execv(), execlp(), and execvp()), the environment for the new process
image shall be taken from the external variable environ in the calling
process., which libc achieves by calling execve() with the current
environ, effectively just filling the prescribed default.
'extern **char environ' is no [kernel] magic*, it's just an ordinary
pointer variable sitting in the process address space, it's only
special in that it gets set (by means which are not important to this
discussion) before main() starts executing.
-- jan
(*) One can e.g. happily set it directly to any other value:
14:41 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ cat a.c
#include stdlib.h
#include stdio.h
#include unistd.h
extern char **environ;
main() {
char *e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a1: %s\n, e);
setenv(MYVAR, MYVALUE, 1);
e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a2: %s\n, e);
environ = NULL;
e = getenv(MYVAR);
printf(a3: %s\n, e);
}
14:41 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ gcc a.c ./a.out
a1: (null)
a2: MYVALUE
a3: (null)
14:41 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$
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Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, Honza wrote: 2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be: Output of strace: brk(0) = 0x21a5000 brk(0x21c6000) = 0x21c6000 write(1, a2: MYVALUE\n, 12a2: MYVALUE ) = 12 execve(./b.out, [0], [/* 57 vars */]) = 0 brk(0) = 0x189e000 access(/etc/ld.so.nohwcap, F_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) As you can see, it uses execve() behind the scenes to be able to pass the modified local environment. This is libc-specific behaviour. I think I cannot agree. IMO its a POSIX specified behavior. libc, at least in this case, just implements the POSIX specs: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/exec.html And as the ouptut of executing a.out shows, libc implements it correctly: For those forms not containing an envp pointer ( execl(), execv(), execlp(), and execvp()), the environment for the new process image shall be taken from the external variable environ in the calling process., which libc achieves by calling execve() with the current environ, effectively just filling the prescribed default. I do not agree with this interpretation. First of all, you are calling execv() in your code, not execve(). That libc changes this to execve() is IMHO not permissible. So all bets and conclusions are off from that point onwards. Secondly, we interpret differently 'external variable environ'. (note the 'external'). For me this clearly means the original environment as passed on to the current process. Which probably is what happens if you'd call the execv() kernel function, although that would need testing. Thirdly, the 2 referenced pages clearly indicate that the whole environment handling is hairy at best in corner cases like this. And lastly: We on purpose do not follow Libc; Otherwise we'd simply have built the whole RTL on top of it. So we are not under any obligation to mimic its behaviour. Michael.-- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On 4/4/2012 08:02, Honza wrote: 2012/4/4michael.vancann...@wisa.be: Not the current. The EXTERNAL variable environ, i.e. the one that the kernel passed on, which cannot be modified. You can only modify your local copy. 14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ ls a.c b.c [trim] 14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ ./a.out a1: (null) a2: MYVALUE b: MYVALUE 14:00 myname@tux64:~/tmp/c$ your example shows a shell... i may have added to the confusion because a trick i recall us doing in the DOS days was to change the master environment... after running ./a.out, do you see your MYVAR in the environment via set | more or export | more or whatever?? most likely you will not see your MYVAR at that point after a.out finishes execution... i believe this is what was being pointed to as not supported... my apologies if i added confusion... -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] offline Wiki Help
(Moving this discussion out of the inappropriate Lazarus 1.0 is branched topic.) Seemingly there are efforts to introduce an offline Wiki type of offline help, thus providing a maybe more versatile alternative are an addition to the currently available variants such as the CHM help and the DocView add-on. I think this is a very interesting move. Is it easy to get and install a standard local Wiki reader ? Or is somebody creating one in Pascal code ? It would be great to have a wiki page about this. I'd like to see comments about this issue from those who drove the recent huge discussion on offline help (Graeme, DoDi, Mattias, Sven, Marco, Michael vC...) -Michael Martin laza...@mfriebe.de hat am 4. April 2012 um 13:43 geschrieben: On 04/04/2012 11:26, Mattias Gaertner wrote: There is no 1:1 mapping between word and wiki page. At the moment there are two searches for the offline wiki pages. Both have their pros and cons. There are mappings between some IDE windows and wiki though Yes. But he asked about F1 on a word, which I guess is about a word in the source editor. When the offline wiki works, I will check what needs to be done in the IDE to switch. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be: I do not agree with this interpretation. First of all, you are calling execv() in your code, not execve(). That libc changes this to execve() is IMHO not permissible. So all bets and conclusions are off from that point onwards. Why not permissible? The POSIX specs describe what the semantics and/or effects of executing a defined function are. The semantics and effects of libc's execv() are what is said about it in POSIX. I don't see any 'off' conclusion derivable ;-) Secondly, we interpret differently 'external variable environ'. (note the 'external'). For me this clearly means the original environment as passed on to the current process. From the moment main() starts executing, environ is the process current environment. Initially, as it was passed, after any mutation well, that mutated state. No copy of the original environment of a process exists anywhere in the process nor in the kernel. A copy might still exists, though not necessarily, in the originating process, but that is anyway not accessible by the new/now executing process (modulo shmem etc.). Also the 'external variable' is just a reference to the C specification, i.e. that's the way C says to the linker to find the variable defined elsewhere, not in this compilation unit/produced object code. Which probably is what happens if you'd call the execv() kernel function, although that would need testing. I can perhaps save someone's time, as there's no execv() kernel call. There's only execve() and that's why a POSIX compliant libc calls execve() with the current value of environ. Thirdly, the 2 referenced pages clearly indicate that the whole environment handling is hairy at best in corner cases like this. Perhaps, not relevant to us, IMO. And lastly: We on purpose do not follow Libc; Otherwise we'd simply have built the whole RTL on top of it. So we are not under any obligation to mimic its behaviour. No one said so. Actually that's just fine. The discussion went about various claims from various people that in POSIX the environment is either immutable at all, or the mutations are not visible in libraries, or not inherited on exec() - we (you and me) were not discussing FPC at all, IMO. AFAICS, all the above claims were not true. Actually it's the first time ever I saw such claims, as mutating environment in a POSIX program, because of child process inherits that by default, is so common, that I have never even thought before of a possibility it could be otherwise, so I wanted to verify, to my own benefit, how that stuff I never really looked into actually works ;-) -- jnml PS: I think there's no reason why a SetEnv should not by available in sysutils (or system, or ...) on POSIX systems, and as other languages demonstrate, such call can work seamlessly on Windows too. And as FPC is a cross platform compiler Actually I think if there is GetEnv somewhere and its natural counterpart SetEnv is nowhere, then it's quite surprising - don't know about a similar example with some other language. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] offline Wiki Help
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 15:30:38 +0200 Michael Schnell mschn...@lumino.de wrote: (Moving this discussion out of the inappropriate Lazarus 1.0 is branched topic.) Seemingly there are efforts to introduce an offline Wiki type of offline help, thus providing a maybe more versatile alternative are an addition to the currently available variants such as the CHM help and the DocView add-on. I think this is a very interesting move. Is it easy to get and install a standard local Wiki reader ? Or is somebody creating one in Pascal code ? All readers are pascal code. It would be great to have a wiki page about this. All are currently only in proof of concept phase. We have to find someone to work on this. I'd like to see comments about this issue from those who drove the recent huge discussion on offline help (Graeme, DoDi, Mattias, Sven, Marco, Michael vC...) Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] offline Wiki Help
On 04/04/2012 03:40 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: All readers are pascal code. Great, but seems like a lot of work This would enable using the IDE's help viewer interface to launch it. Great again. Maybe this enables seamlessly using the online and offline Wiki content. Another Great added. Obviously adding a kind of Keywords to the Wiki content would enable F1-search for words in the Editor and keywords translated Types from variable/implementation names. Obviously it's a lot easier to automatically translate FPDoc content to Wiki than vice-versa. Obviously this would make common users more likely to be help contributors. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Make unreadable names into bunary
Hi all, I would make unreadable functions/components/classes/etc names into the binary built. I noticed that with an hex editor I can see things like TButton, width, heigh etc. Avoiding this, could make also more difficul a reverse engeneering with the binary. Is there an option to enable this in compiling? Thank you, Kjow -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Make unreadable names into bunary
On 4-4-2012 16:10, Kjow wrote: Hi all, I would make unreadable functions/components/classes/etc names into the binary built. I noticed that with an hex editor I can see things like TButton, width, heigh etc. Avoiding this, could make also more difficul a reverse engeneering with the binary. Is there an option to enable this in compiling? That's called obfuscating the code. See tools/options/jcf format settings/obfuscate to see what that does. Haven't tried it, probably requires codetools/jedi code format packages... Regards, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, Honza wrote: 2012/4/4 michael.vancann...@wisa.be: I do not agree with this interpretation. First of all, you are calling execv() in your code, not execve(). That libc changes this to execve() is IMHO not permissible. So all bets and conclusions are off from that point onwards. Why not permissible? The POSIX specs describe what the semantics and/or effects of executing a defined function are. The semantics and effects of libc's execv() are what is said about it in POSIX. I don't see any 'off' conclusion derivable ;-) Secondly, we interpret differently 'external variable environ'. (note the 'external'). For me this clearly means the original environment as passed on to the current process. From the moment main() starts executing, environ is the process current environment. Initially, as it was passed, after any mutation well, that mutated state. No copy of the original environment of a process exists anywhere in the process nor in the kernel. I think you'll find that the environment block is copied as soon as you add a new environment variable. Since the original environment as passed by the kernel is not in the heap, so how could you add something to it, except by copying the array of pointers and enlarging it ? What happens to it in a library, is currently open for speculation. A copy might still exists, though not necessarily, in the originating process, but that is anyway not accessible by the new/now executing process (modulo shmem etc.). Also the 'external variable' is just a reference to the C specification, i.e. that's the way C says to the linker to find the variable defined elsewhere, not in this compilation unit/produced object code. I agree a C person might interpret it like that. Which probably is what happens if you'd call the execv() kernel function, although that would need testing. I can perhaps save someone's time, as there's no execv() kernel call. There's only execve() and that's why a POSIX compliant libc calls execve() with the current value of environ. I stand corrected on this front. Thirdly, the 2 referenced pages clearly indicate that the whole environment handling is hairy at best in corner cases like this. Perhaps, not relevant to us, IMO. And lastly: We on purpose do not follow Libc; Otherwise we'd simply have built the whole RTL on top of it. So we are not under any obligation to mimic its behaviour. No one said so. Actually that's just fine. The discussion went about various claims from various people that in POSIX the environment is either immutable at all, or the mutations are not visible in libraries, or not inherited on exec() - we (you and me) were not discussing FPC at all, IMO. Yes. I was sloppy in my terminology. AFAICS, all the above claims were not true. Actually it's the first time ever I saw such claims, as mutating environment in a POSIX program, because of child process inherits that by default, is so common, that I have never even thought before of a possibility it could be otherwise, so I wanted to verify, to my own benefit, how that stuff I never really looked into actually works ;-) I think the confusion came from the original posters request to modify the 'global environment', which - I hope you'll agree - is not possible on Posix, as the environment is passed on from process to process using execve. So, my conclusions: * The SetEnvironment() call on windows will do something totally different than what happens under Posix, and the Windows behaviour cannot be mimicked. Which is why it isn't in sysutils. * A posixy SetEnv() could be implemented for the Unix layer, to mimic Libc. But I think it would not be usable for libraries, since the environment copy of the RTL would not be shareable with the library without pulling in the C memory manager. At best it could be used to be passed on to a new process. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] lazbuild build IDE profiles
On 4/2/2012 18:14, Mattias Gaertner wrote: On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 15:10:18 -0400 waldo kittywkitt...@windstream.net wrote: On 3/31/2012 17:44, waldo kitty wrote: On 3/31/2012 13:01, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Can you send me the exact commands and your .lazarus/miscellaneousoptions.xml? There were a lot of mails and I want to make sure I have the latest version. i will send off list... we're getting closer, i think :) yes, definitely closer... except that normal ide and optimized ide are coming out the same as debug ide :( C:\freepascaldir laz\lazarus-*.exe Volume in drive C has no label. Volume Serial Number is 9CAB-2377 Directory of C:\freepascal\laz 04/04/2012 10:38 76,238,268 lazarus-debug.exe 04/04/2012 10:45 76,238,268 lazarus-normal.exe 04/04/2012 10:54 76,238,268 lazarus-optimized.exe 3 File(s)228,714,804 bytes 2506 *** 2507 * Debug IDE 2508 * CMD: lazbuild.exe --build-ide= --build-mode=debug ide 2509 * 2510 primary config path: C:\Documents and Settings\e3br42x1\Local Settings\Application Data\lazarus 2511 Building Lazarus IDE with profile Debug IDE [...] 2823 Clean Lazarus Source completed 2824 TLazPackageGraph.CheckIfCurPkgOutDirNeedsCompile Missing state file for FCL 1.0.1: C:\freepascal\laz\packager\units\i386-win32\FCL.compiled 2825 [TExternalToolList.Run] CmdLine=C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.5\bin\i386-win32\fpc.exe -B -MObjFPC -Scghi -O1 -g -gl -vewnhi -l -FuC:\freepascal\laz\packager\registration\ -FUC:\freepascal\laz\packager\units\i386-win32\ -gw -gl -godwarfsets -gh -gt -Co -Cr -Ci -Sa -dDebug -dVerbose fcllaz.pas WorkDir=C:\freepascal\laz\packager\registration\ 2826 Hint: Start of reading config file C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.5\bin\i386-win32\fpc.cfg 2827 Compiling Debug Version [...] 4228 Linking C:\freepascal\laz\lazarus.new.exe 4229 269773 lines compiled, 189.4 sec , 9361136 bytes code, 4238760 bytes data 4230 2 warning(s) issued 4245 *** 4246 * Normal IDE 4247 * CMD: lazbuild.exe --build-ide= --build-mode=normal ide 4248 * 4249 primary config path: C:\Documents and Settings\e3br42x1\Local Settings\Application Data\lazarus 4250 Building Lazarus IDE with profile Normal IDE [...] 4562 Clean Lazarus Source completed 4563 TLazPackageGraph.CheckIfCurPkgOutDirNeedsCompile Missing state file for FCL 1.0.1: C:\freepascal\laz\packager\units\i386-win32\FCL.compiled 4564 [TExternalToolList.Run] CmdLine=C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.5\bin\i386-win32\fpc.exe -B -MObjFPC -Scghi -O1 -g -gl -vewnhi -l -FuC:\freepascal\laz\packager\registration\ -FUC:\freepascal\laz\packager\units\i386-win32\ -gw -gl -godwarfsets -gh -gt -Co -Cr -Ci -Sa -dDebug -dVerbose fcllaz.pas WorkDir=C:\freepascal\laz\packager\registration\ 4565 Hint: Start of reading config file C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.5\bin\i386-win32\fpc.cfg 4566 Compiling Debug Version [...] 5967 Linking C:\freepascal\laz\lazarus.new.exe 5968 269773 lines compiled, 196.0 sec , 9361136 bytes code, 4238760 bytes data 5969 2 warning(s) issued 5984 *** 5985 * Optimized IDE 5986 * CMD: lazbuild.exe --build-ide= --build-mode=optimized ide 5987 * 5988 primary config path: C:\Documents and Settings\e3br42x1\Local Settings\Application Data\lazarus 5989 Building Lazarus IDE with profile Optimized IDE [...] 6301 Clean Lazarus Source completed 6302 TLazPackageGraph.CheckIfCurPkgOutDirNeedsCompile Missing state file for FCL 1.0.1: C:\freepascal\laz\packager\units\i386-win32\FCL.compiled 6303 [TExternalToolList.Run] CmdLine=C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.5\bin\i386-win32\fpc.exe -B -MObjFPC -Scghi -O1 -g -gl -vewnhi -l -FuC:\freepascal\laz\packager\registration\ -FUC:\freepascal\laz\packager\units\i386-win32\ -gw -gl -godwarfsets -gh -gt -Co -Cr -Ci -Sa -dDebug -dVerbose fcllaz.pas WorkDir=C:\freepascal\laz\packager\registration\ 6304 Hint: Start of reading config file C:\freepascal\fpc\2.4.5\bin\i386-win32\fpc.cfg 6305 Compiling Debug Version [...] 7706 Linking C:\freepascal\laz\lazarus.new.exe 7707 269773 lines compiled, 298.3 sec , 9361136 bytes code, 4238760 bytes data 7708 2 warning(s) issued -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] SetEnv on Linux 64bit
On Wed, Apr 04, 2012 at 04:22:24PM +0200, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: I think you'll find that the environment block is copied as soon as you add a new environment variable. Afaik BSD copies it in the startup code before main() executes. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Make unreadable names into bunary
On Wed, Apr 04, 2012 at 04:10:46PM +0200, Kjow wrote: I would make unreadable functions/components/classes/etc names into the binary built. I noticed that with an hex editor I can see things like TButton, width, heigh etc. Yes. These are needed to stream forms. Avoiding this, could make also more difficul a reverse engeneering with the binary. On Windows, use tools that encrypt the whole binary. They usually allow resources to keep working. (at least they do with delphi) Is there an option to enable this in compiling? No, the form based streaming is a corner stone of the designer. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
In the IDE Options the key mappings can be searched (and changed) very convenient. But when I filter for breakpoint I only get 3 functions listed. It took me quite a while to find out that the other breakpoint related functions are named break point (with a space in the middle). I think that this word should be written in the same way (without space) for all cases. Yet another issue that stroke me: When searching for a key I often don't know how it is actually named. But I know which key invokes it. So I search for the function with find key combination. That's fine so far. Having read it's name I often want do see other related keys with similar names and do another search by name. But this does not work anymore. I have to exit from the options dialog and reinvoke it to do another search by name. Is that intended? It's a bit annoying. And yet another one: When I want to assign a new key and this key is already assigned to another function I get a message telling me whether I still want to assign to this key. If I answer no, the whole assignment dialog is closed. Often I want to try another key but first I have to find my entry (it's not even highlighted anymore!) and double click on it again. This repeats for each unsuccessful try of keys. I am not sure whether this can be changed easily but if yes I (and hopefully others too) would appreciate if someone does. And a last one: What is the difference between Toggle Breakpoint and Toggle view Breakpoints? The names sound identical but Toggle view Breakpoints only shows the list of breakpoints. And it does not toggle anything. Once called it does not close when I use the related key again. Shouldn't this be named Show Breakpoints or something like this? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
On 4-4-2012 18:02, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: In the IDE Options the key mappings can be searched (and changed) very convenient. But when I filter for breakpoint I only get 3 functions listed. It took me quite a while to find out that the other breakpoint related functions are named break point (with a space in the middle). I think that this word should be written in the same way (without space) for all cases. Good point. I'm sure patches for this would be welcome... and they would not be that hard to create. Regards, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
On 04/04/2012 17:02, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: In the IDE Options the key mappings can be searched (and changed) very convenient. But when I filter for breakpoint I only get 3 functions listed. It took me quite a while to find out that the other breakpoint related functions are named break point (with a space in the middle). I think that this word should be written in the same way (without space) for all cases. +1 Yet another issue that stroke me: When searching for a key I often don't know how it is actually named. But I know which key invokes it. So I search for the function with find key combination. That's fine so far. Having read it's name I often want do see other related keys with similar names and do another search by name. But this does not work anymore. I have to exit from the options dialog and reinvoke it to do another search by name. Is that intended? It's a bit annoying. After searching for a key, the button has that key's name as caption. Click the button, dialog will say unknown confirm all are shown Could be more intuitive with a clear button. And yet another one: When I want to assign a new key and this key is already assigned to another function I get a message telling me whether I still want to assign to this key. If I answer no, the whole assignment dialog is closed. Often I want to try another key but first I have to find my entry (it's not even highlighted anymore!) and double click on it again. This repeats for each unsuccessful try of keys. I am not sure whether this can be changed easily but if yes I (and hopefully others too) would appreciate if someone does. Are you on trunk? the warning now has 3 buttons. And can return to the assign dialog And a last one: What is the difference between Toggle Breakpoint and Toggle view Breakpoints? The names sound identical but Toggle view Breakpoints only shows the list of breakpoints. And it does not toggle anything. Once called it does not close when I use the related key again. Shouldn't this be named Show Breakpoints or something like this? 2nd needs to be renamed -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
Martin schrieb: Are you on trunk? No, what's this? Is it SVN? Although I would realy like to contribute more to Lazarus there are 2 obstacles that are not easy to remove: 1.) Time. I would have to invest much more time which I currently can't afford. 2.) Knowledge. This is quite related to 1.) of course. Before I can do changes I need to know much more about the internals I think. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strange dependency of units
Michael Schnell schrieb: Unfortunately many projects start small and at some point get so big that separating GUI and business code would be appropriate, but with an advanced project, the effort is a lot harder to do. Of course, it would always be better to do it right in the first place. But often it is unknown how a project evolves and it may also be unknown in which way a project should be splitted (it's not only GUI and the rest). So it can be wasted time when investing more than needed to get a program running. I don't think that in sum it needs more time to do a rebuilt later. The important think IMO is, that *if* a project grows and *if* one realizes that something needs rebuilding that then this time has to be available and that a rebuilt has to be done. I often changed complex parts of programs in a way I could not foresee at start. And of course the time for bug fixing should be available too. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Make unreadable names into bunary
Kjow schrieb: Hi all, I would make unreadable functions/components/classes/etc names into the binary built. I noticed that with an hex editor I can see things like TButton, width, heigh etc. These names must match the declarations of the components and properties in LCL source code, so that the resource loader can find the registered classes and their published properties. This means that you have to use an obfuscated LCL, with obfuscated class and property names. The component names instead can be choosen freely, but I don't see an improvement when e.g. a TButton is renamed from Button1 to something else - its class name still will be readable. Skilled hackers still may get many (type) names from a running executable, depending on the platform and widgetset. A decompiler (like IDA) also will reveal much of the source code, in all OO languages. This is why I never wrote an decompiler for Pascal (Delphi/FPC) binaries, to discourage sniffing in other peoples' apps. In practice it's much easier to use a tool that compresses an executable into a self-expanding archive. Then the names can no more be found in the files on disk, and the size of the distributed files can become much smaller. And use the FPC and LCL *trunk* versions, to build your distributed apps, so that no decompiler will succeed in matching parts of the code with a *release* version of the libraries. Graeme may praise fpGUI now again, which AFAIK does not use resources for the creation of the components on a form. Newer Delphi versions, in contrast, are much more verbose about application details, in the extended RTTI that is enabled by default and becomes part of every binary; turing it off is very complicated, must be done in every single unit, and for many types (classes, records...). DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
On 04/04/2012 17:31, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Martin schrieb: Are you on trunk? No, what's this? Is it SVN? yes, latest svn (not fixes branch) Although I would realy like to contribute more to Lazarus there are 2 obstacles that are not easy to remove: 1.) Time. I would have to invest much more time which I currently can't afford. 2.) Knowledge. This is quite related to 1.) of course. Before I can do changes I need to know much more about the internals I think. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
On 04/04/2012 17:53, Martin wrote: On 04/04/2012 17:31, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Although I would realy like to contribute more to Lazarus there are 2 obstacles that are not easy to remove: 1.) Time. I would have to invest much more time which I currently can't afford. 2.) Knowledge. This is quite related to 1.) of course. Before I can do changes I need to know much more about the internals I think. Actually this is a simple frame, and changing a resource string is not really requiring knowledge. Open the dialog, select keymaps, and focus a control on the right (not the tree) ctrl-shift F1 - look for the open... button and you got the unit (alternatively install package IDE explorer) Find the button in the form, search in code, where the caption is set. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
On 04/04/2012 18:01, Martin wrote: On 04/04/2012 17:53, Martin wrote: On 04/04/2012 17:31, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Although I would realy like to contribute more to Lazarus there are 2 obstacles that are not easy to remove: 1.) Time. I would have to invest much more time which I currently can't afford. 2.) Knowledge. This is quite related to 1.) of course. Before I can do changes I need to know much more about the internals I think. Actually this is a simple frame, and changing a resource string is not really requiring knowledge. Open the dialog, select keymaps, and focus a control on the right (not the tree) ctrl-shift F1 - look for the open... button and you got the unit (alternatively install package IDE explorer) Find the button in the form, search in code, where the caption is set. Sorry, for entries in the list, just search in files for the text -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strange dependency of units
Separation is very advantages for large and/or professional projects. separation, as you call it, is simply a good-design practice; no matter whether the project is small or big. I quite don't believe (allow me this simple paragon) you would mix your winter and summer clothing in the same bag; and bring the very same bag with you to the beach and to the mountains... But it contradicts the idea of RAD (Rapid Application Development) that initially drove the invention of Delphi. That's simply not true. a RAD tool can help you in many ways, but your code (your CODE) still needs to be hand-written. And your CODE generally is more likely to be NON-GUY (or not so strictly GUY) related. Just to bring in a name every developer at least one time in his life has come across: the unit utils.pas had better be GUY-independent; as I doubt you would need a lot of graphic bells-and-whistles just to be able to use the function trimRight(s: string): String; Or do you...? Same is very useful for projects dedicated to starting, learning/teaching, prototyping, testing Pascal code, testing attached devices, staying small, etc. IMHO this is true by far the most projects ever started. this may indeed be the one and only place where you could at least not bother with differences between GUY and NON-GUY environments. True is that nowadays NON-GUY envs. tend to disappear; but you need to remember that FP is meant to be portable to (any) environment, including embedded systems; where this difference is still alive and kicking. Very unfortunately many 3rd party products available for free or payed don't adhere to the separating GUI and business code paradigm. Hence I wonder why some people don't complain after having paid for them... Unfortunately many projects start small and at some point get so big that separating GUI and business code would be appropriate, but with an advanced project, the effort is a lot harder to do. the problem must be approached the other way around... Anyway, separating GUY code from NON-GUY is not such a big task; you only need to know your tools. Or say, classes... what they do and what not. The software is your tool, your instrument, and you better know it very well... indeed, I'd dare say that it's your due. This is especially true if it it turns out that the final product needs to be used as a service/daemon. Sic. I'd; and probably not only me... ;-) probably kill you (but just cutting your hands would probably do as well), shall you implement a daemon with some dependencies on text/graphic specific library... Here the upcoming Custom Drawn Widget set some day might help to allow for some kind of GUI remoting, and by simply switching the Lazarus Widget Type the GUI can be cut off. Sorry, this one I cannot catch... :-O Cheers, A. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Keys attached to IDE functions
Am 04.04.2012 18:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de: And yet another one: When I want to assign a new key and this key is already assigned to another function I get a message telling me whether I still want to assign to this key. If I answer no, the whole assignment dialog is closed. Often I want to try another key but first I have to find my entry (it's not even highlighted anymore!) and double click on it again. This repeats for each unsuccessful try of keys. I am not sure whether this can be changed easily but if yes I (and hopefully others too) would appreciate if someone does. I had already reported this some time ago and it got fixed in the development version shortly thereafter. Once 1.0 is released you'll find it fixed. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:44 PM, zel...@holobit.net wrote: Hi all, As I've already mentioned few weeks ago on lazdevel, today we branched 1.0 :) branch is here: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0/ wiki with revisions which have to be merged from trunk (also there will be links about other 1.0 stuff like changes etc): http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.0_fixes_branch or http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.0_fixes_branch Current trunk version 0.9.31 is 1.1 as of r36507. 1.In next days snapshots will be versioned as 1.1 2.For testers: svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0 lazarus 3.We are planning to release 1.0 in next 3 months, but before that we will relese 1..XX RC candidates - you'll be informed about it. Happy Lazarus 1.0 ! I updated my Lazarus today, from SVN trunk, and everything works. But the splash form shows the old version 0.9.31. However if I click in HelpAbout the info is correct (version 1.1). Lazarus 1.1 r36566 FPC 2.6.1 i386-win32-win32/win64 Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
Op 4 april 2012 22:50 heeft Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net het volgende geschreven: On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:44 PM, zel...@holobit.net wrote: Hi all, As I've already mentioned few weeks ago on lazdevel, today we branched 1.0 :) branch is here: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0/ wiki with revisions which have to be merged from trunk (also there will be links about other 1.0 stuff like changes etc): http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.0_fixes_branch or http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.0_fixes_branch Current trunk version 0.9.31 is 1.1 as of r36507. 1.In next days snapshots will be versioned as 1.1 2.For testers: svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0 lazarus 3.We are planning to release 1.0 in next 3 months, but before that we will relese 1..XX RC candidates - you'll be informed about it. Happy Lazarus 1.0 ! I updated my Lazarus today, from SVN trunk, and everything works. But the splash form shows the old version 0.9.31. However if I click in HelpAbout the info is correct (version 1.1). Lazarus 1.1 r36566 FPC 2.6.1 i386-win32-win32/win64 Did you recompile startlazarus? Vincent -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 4/4/2012 16:50, Marcos Douglas wrote: I updated my Lazarus today, from SVN trunk, and everything works. But the splash form shows the old version 0.9.31. However if I click in HelpAbout the info is correct (version 1.1). Lazarus 1.1 r36566 FPC 2.6.1 i386-win32-win32/win64 i'm on 36559 and my splash shows 1.1 at the bottom... i start my lazarus via startlazarus... i'm pretty sure you've also seen my exchanges concerning compiling from the command line instead of svn update and then firing lazarus and compiling a new laz from in there? if so, we've learned (in the last months) that we should make clean before svn up... then make all (the easy way) to build all the new tools and such... then we can lazbuild blah blah to build the new lazarus... at least my lazbuild.exe and startlazarus.exe are built every time... -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Vincent Snijders vincent.snijd...@gmail.com wrote: Op 4 april 2012 22:50 heeft Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net het volgende geschreven: On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:44 PM, zel...@holobit.net wrote: Hi all, As I've already mentioned few weeks ago on lazdevel, today we branched 1.0 :) branch is here: http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0/ wiki with revisions which have to be merged from trunk (also there will be links about other 1.0 stuff like changes etc): http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.0_fixes_branch or http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.0_fixes_branch Current trunk version 0.9.31 is 1.1 as of r36507. 1.In next days snapshots will be versioned as 1.1 2.For testers: svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/branches/fixes_1_0 lazarus 3.We are planning to release 1.0 in next 3 months, but before that we will relese 1..XX RC candidates - you'll be informed about it. Happy Lazarus 1.0 ! I updated my Lazarus today, from SVN trunk, and everything works. But the splash form shows the old version 0.9.31. However if I click in HelpAbout the info is correct (version 1.1). Lazarus 1.1 r36566 FPC 2.6.1 i386-win32-win32/win64 Did you recompile startlazarus? Vincent To recompile Lazarus I just use the IDE.. I thought the command Build All recompile everything. If not, how I recompile the startlazarus? Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:35 PM, waldo kitty wkitt...@windstream.net wrote: On 4/4/2012 16:50, Marcos Douglas wrote: I updated my Lazarus today, from SVN trunk, and everything works. But the splash form shows the old version 0.9.31. However if I click in HelpAbout the info is correct (version 1.1). Lazarus 1.1 r36566 FPC 2.6.1 i386-win32-win32/win64 i'm on 36559 and my splash shows 1.1 at the bottom... i start my lazarus via startlazarus... i'm pretty sure you've also seen my exchanges concerning compiling from the command line instead of svn update and then firing lazarus and compiling a new laz from in there? if so, we've learned (in the last months) that we should make clean before svn up... then make all (the easy way) to build all the new tools and such... then we can lazbuild blah blah to build the new lazarus... at least my lazbuild.exe and startlazarus.exe are built every time... I use scripts to compile the FPC but to Lazarus I only use the IDE. I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:34:50 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: [...] To recompile Lazarus I just use the IDE.. I thought the command Build All recompile everything. If not, how I recompile the startlazarus? Compile project ide/startlazarus.lpi. Or use make clean all. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:47 PM, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:34:50 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: [...] To recompile Lazarus I just use the IDE.. I thought the command Build All recompile everything. If not, how I recompile the startlazarus? Compile project ide/startlazarus.lpi. Maybe the Build command, on IDE, would do this? Or use make clean all. As I said, I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:38:03 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: [...] I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. No. Make does not delete/alter configurations. In fact it does not even know where your configuration is. That's why it can only build a default IDE or a default big IDE. When you start such a default IDE, it will read your configuration. If you use it to build a new IDE it will install your packages. Then you get a new IDE with your configuration and your components. Or you can use lazbuild to build an IDE with your components in a console. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:38:03 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: [...] I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. No. Make does not delete/alter configurations. In fact it does not even know where your configuration is. That's why it can only build a default IDE or a default big IDE. When you start such a default IDE, it will read your configuration. If you use it to build a new IDE it will install your packages. Then you get a new IDE with your configuration and your components. Or you can use lazbuild to build an IDE with your components in a console. Sorry, I think I did not understand. You're saying I should use Make to build a default IDE at the first time. After that I should use the Build command (on IDE) or lazbuild tool to recompile with my own configurations and components? Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:59:08 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:38:03 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: [...] I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. No. Make does not delete/alter configurations. In fact it does not even know where your configuration is. That's why it can only build a default IDE or a default big IDE. When you start such a default IDE, it will read your configuration. If you use it to build a new IDE it will install your packages. Then you get a new IDE with your configuration and your components. Or you can use lazbuild to build an IDE with your components in a console. Sorry, I think I did not understand. You're saying I should use Make to build a default IDE at the first time. After that I should use the Build command (on IDE) or lazbuild tool to recompile with my own configurations and components? make clean all is the clean way. In 99,9% of all svn revisions it is enough to rebuild the IDE via the IDE. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 4/4/2012 20:34, Marcos Douglas wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Vincent Snijders wrote: Did you recompile startlazarus? To recompile Lazarus I just use the IDE.. I thought the command Build All recompile everything. If not, how I recompile the startlazarus? as mattias and i have been discussing, the easiest way is make clean before svn up... then make all after that... then you can use lazbuild to build based on profiles (eg: debug ide, normal ide, optimized ide which are all defaults) and those would also include your own defined profiles just the same as in the IDE... provided that i've been following along and understanding... as such, i just reported a bug today wherein lazbuild still builds debug versions when it is not supposed to do so... i'm hoping this is fixed and working properly when laz v1.0 is released in another few months... my setup is based off of (your??) wiki instructions for total SVN starting of FPC and lazarus... i've been working on an updatelaz script (.bat file on winwhatever) which is now working for the basic needs... just to get the above mentioned bug fixed and life will be golden again :P ;) -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:59:08 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:38:03 -0300 Marcos Douglas m...@delfire.net wrote: [...] I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. No. Make does not delete/alter configurations. In fact it does not even know where your configuration is. That's why it can only build a default IDE or a default big IDE. When you start such a default IDE, it will read your configuration. If you use it to build a new IDE it will install your packages. Then you get a new IDE with your configuration and your components. Or you can use lazbuild to build an IDE with your components in a console. Sorry, I think I did not understand. You're saying I should use Make to build a default IDE at the first time. After that I should use the Build command (on IDE) or lazbuild tool to recompile with my own configurations and components? make clean all is the clean way. It's recommended if I have an error, right? We use make clean all, get a default IDE and recompile again using pcp param to restart all configurations, components, etc. But I have to compile twice. Am I right? In 99,9% of all svn revisions it is enough to rebuild the IDE via the IDE. OK. I compiled project ide/startlazarus.lpi and I got an error because the startlazarus.exe is running... of course. So, I started Lazarus without use startlazarus and I compiled again. Now I can see the splash updated. Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:17 PM, waldo kitty wkitt...@windstream.net wrote: On 4/4/2012 20:34, Marcos Douglas wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Vincent Snijders wrote: Did you recompile startlazarus? To recompile Lazarus I just use the IDE.. I thought the command Build All recompile everything. If not, how I recompile the startlazarus? as mattias and i have been discussing, the easiest way is make clean before svn up... then make all after that... then you can use lazbuild to build based on profiles (eg: debug ide, normal ide, optimized ide which are all defaults) and those would also include your own defined profiles just the same as in the IDE... provided that i've been following along and understanding... as such, i just reported a bug today wherein lazbuild still builds debug versions when it is not supposed to do so... i'm hoping this is fixed and working properly when laz v1.0 is released in another few months... For FPC I always use make distclean before update from SVN and then make [...] using my script. I never used lazbuild. The IDE can do this, why complicate? ;-) my setup is based off of (your??) wiki instructions for total SVN starting of FPC and lazarus... i've been working on an updatelaz script (.bat file on winwhatever) which is now working for the basic needs... just to get the above mentioned bug fixed and life will be golden again :P ;) Yes, I wrote the Installation instructions to use FPC and Lazarus from SVN to Win32. After someone improved the scripts. I have a new script that I improved to compile FPC (32 and 64 using cross) with some optionals parameters etc. But to Lazarus the IDE works very fine. Today I saw this little problem in the splash form... well, I can compile startlazarus some times, that is very simple too. Marcos Douglas -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 4/4/2012 20:38, Marcos Douglas wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:35 PM, waldo kittywkitt...@windstream.net wrote: i'm pretty sure you've also seen my exchanges concerning compiling from the command line instead of svn update and then firing lazarus and compiling a new laz from in there? if so, we've learned (in the last months) that we should make clean before svn up... then make all (the easy way) to build all the new tools and such... then we can lazbuild blah blah to build the new lazarus... at least my lazbuild.exe and startlazarus.exe are built every time... I use scripts to compile the FPC but to Lazarus I only use the IDE. I can't use make all because all configuration, components, etc will gone. ummm... after that, as i wrote in my previous, you run lazbuild to build what you really want... make all is the cheap way out... it builds everything including a basic default default (yes) lazarus so that one can at least get up and running... lazbuild is supposed to then be able to build the same lazarus.exe as you do from in the IDE's Tools-build lazarus selection with the chosen profile... this is what mattias and i have been working on this last week in the lazbuild build IDE profiles thread ;) -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 4/4/2012 20:53, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Or you can use lazbuild to build an IDE with your components in a console. +100~ that's what we're working on :) when i can keep off the side trips and stick to the main task :P -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.0 is branched
On 4/4/2012 21:18, Marcos Douglas wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: make clean all is the clean way. It's recommended if I have an error, right? ummm... n... please see the lazbuild build IDE profiles thread... We use make clean all, get a default IDE and recompile again using pcp param to restart all configurations, components, etc. But I have to compile twice. Am I right? yes, there is that but if make all is not used, the one must know and call all of the necessary make targets without the IDE one to get all the tools built... In 99,9% of all svn revisions it is enough to rebuild the IDE via the IDE. that's what my discussions in the lazbuild build IDE profiles thread are all about... why have to manually go into the IDE to build a new IDE after a svn update?? i start my updatelaz script which cleans the dirs, updates from svn, and then does the building of the tools and lazarus... now that things are working better, i can go have a cuppa' joe while everything does all its churning and burning... on this particular workstation, that's about 30 minutes or so... maybe more... maybe less... OK. I compiled project ide/startlazarus.lpi and I got an error because the startlazarus.exe is running... of course. So, I started Lazarus without use startlazarus and I compiled again. Now I can see the splash updated. hummm... interesting... -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
