Re: [LEAPSECS] Time math libraries, UTC to TAI

On 2017-01-05 09:33 PM, Steve Summit wrote: Brooks Harris wrote: It seems to me infeasible to alter the basic behavior of time_t because it effects every aspect of the operating system, Absolutely. Posix time_t is untouchable, and here to stay. POSIX time and 86400-second-day systems

Re: [LEAPSECS] the year 2100

On 2015-02-02 09:17 PM, Steve Allen wrote: On Wed 2015-01-28T17:05:16 +, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: So why don't you simply list all the estimates as we find them ? As far as I can tell, these guesses/estimates are not inferior to the ones you already list ? Listing them all would be

Re: [LEAPSECS] Time math libraries, UTC to TAI

On 2016-12-26 08:28 PM, Tony Finch wrote: Brooks Harris <bro...@edlmax.com> wrote: The time_t 1970 epoch is fixed with respect to internal POSIX calculations, but it "slips" a second with respect to UTC with each (positive) Leap Second introduction because "23:59:60&

Re: [LEAPSECS] Time math libraries, UTC to TAI

Hi Stephen, On 2016-12-28 02:02 PM, Stephen Scott wrote: Hello Brooks; [ As discussed on the list many times, POSIX's use of the term "UTC" in describing "the epoch" as "1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC" is troublesome because it lies before 1972-01-01T00:00:00 (UTC) in the "rubber band era", the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Time math libraries, UTC to TAI

On 2016-12-28 02:29 PM, Warner Losh wrote: On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Brooks Harris <bro...@edlmax.com> wrote: The YMDhms count progression across the first Leap Second (1972-06-30T23:59:60 (UTC)) as yielded by POSIX gmtime() is expected to be Or rather "something like th

Re: [LEAPSECS] Time math libraries, UTC to TAI

On 2016-12-25 11:58 PM, John Sauter wrote: On Sun, 2016-12-25 at 18:53 -0800, Steve Allen wrote: On Sun 2016-12-25T19:37:31 -0700, Warner Losh hath writ: I think that POSIX has de-facto redefined UTC, and it's time that the UTC standard catch up to this quiet revolution. POSIX has defined

[LEAPSECS] Set your alarms for 2.40am UTC -Brooks

Set your alarms for 2.40am UTC – so you can watch Unix time hit 1,500,000,000 It's gonna be spectacular! https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/13/unix_timestamp_epoch_making_moment/ -Brooks ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com

[LEAPSECS] On time -Brooks Harris

Philomena Cunk's Moments of Wonder Ep 1: Time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpbW7JRu0Q ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs

Re: [LEAPSECS] first use of the terms UT0, UT1, and UT2

On 2017-10-15 03:28 PM, Steve Allen wrote: On Sun 2017-10-15T18:59:31+ Michael.Deckers via LEAPSECS hath writ: Thank you for these interesting primary sources! The more I reflect on this the more I realize that Nicolas Stoyko attended and took notes on many of the astronomy/time/radio

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap second roundup 2017

On 2017-10-23 02:07 PM, Warner Losh wrote: On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Brooks Harris <bro...@edlmax.com <mailto:bro...@edlmax.com>> wrote: On 2017-10-23 09:58 AM, Rob Seaman wrote: Multiple timescales exist now for multiple purposes. Multiple

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap second roundup 2017

On 2017-10-23 06:31 PM, Warner Losh wrote: On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Brooks Harris <bro...@edlmax.com <mailto:bro...@edlmax.com>> wrote: On 2017-10-23 02:07 PM, Warner Losh wrote: Never has been really, but it was the objective for centuries. Local time

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap second roundup 2017

On 2017-10-23 09:58 AM, Rob Seaman wrote: Multiple timescales exist now for multiple purposes. Multiple timescales will exist under all scenarios. Debasing Universal Time is not a solution to any "real world" problem. If you want a new timescale, define a NEW timescale. Indeed. To me, the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Ramifications of DST -Brooks

as that cart which couldn't possibly support that rock... :-) /tvb - Original Message - From: "Brooks Harris" <bro...@edlmax.com> To: "Leap Second Discussion List" <leapsecs@leapsecond.com> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:04 PM Subject: [LEAPSE

[LEAPSECS] Ramifications of DST -Brooks

-Brooks ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs

Re: [LEAPSECS] no more listening to leap seconds?

NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL TECHNICAL INFORMATION SERVICE FISCAL YEAR 2018 BUDGET SUBMISSION TO CONGRESS http://www.osec.doc.gov/bmi/budget/FY18CBJ/FY%202018%20NIST-NTIS%20Cong%20Budget%20Request%20-%20508%20Compliant%20-%20FINAL.pdf pp31 - Time and Fundamental

Re: [LEAPSECS] no more listening to leap seconds?

On 2018-08-10 05:55 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: >From what I understand the same "threat" occurred in 2017 with the FY18 budget. In the end, the budget ended up greater even than what was asked. So no cuts were made. Who knows what will happen this time. Still, it's always a concern; for the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Windows Server 2019

On 2018-07-19 07:06 AM, Hal Murray wrote: I think it does matter. I, for one, would be interested in credible explanation of the "smears", and, if these have been coordinated, by whom, and how. Here is Google's documentation: https://developers.google.com/time/smear We encourage anyone

Re: [LEAPSECS] Windows Server 2019

On 2018-07-19 04:44 AM, Hal Murray wrote: As a IT professional, and author of date/time libraries, I cannot stress enough how much a standard is needed here. We are going to have both UTC (with leap seconds) and systems that smear ("UT-Smear") and there is currently no agreed way to define the

Re: [LEAPSECS] current / future state of UT1 access?

On 2018-03-16 01:18 PM, Rob Seaman wrote: Meanwhile, over the past week or two I have not been able to connect to NIST's UT1 server: https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/ut1-ntp-time-dissemination My SNTP implementation reaches Judah's UT1 server today as

Re: [LEAPSECS] current / future state of UT1 access?

On 2018-03-16 03:41 PM, Brooks Harris wrote: On 2018-03-16 01:18 PM, Rob Seaman wrote: Meanwhile, over the past week or two I have not been able to connect to NIST's UT1 server: https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/ut1-ntp-time-dissemination My SNTP

Re: [LEAPSECS] D.H. Sadler in 1954

Hi John, On 2018-03-19 01:12 AM, John Sauter wrote: On Sat, 2018-03-17 at 22:52 +, Michael.Deckers via LEAPSECS wrote: So, the likely future is that the limit on |UT1 - UTC| will be dropped, leap seconds will no longer be applied, and UTC will become a fixed translate of TAI

Re: [LEAPSECS] [Non-DoD Source] D.H. Sadler in 1954

On 2018-03-17 06:52 PM, Michael.Deckers via LEAPSECS wrote: [BIPM 2018] CGPM26 convocation: draft Resolution B [https://www.bipm.org/utils/en/pdf/CGPM/Convocation-2018.pdf] DocTranslator did a nice (free) job of translating this pdf to English - A) Download to your local drive B) Drag to

Re: [LEAPSECS] Celebrating the new year a few seconds late

On 2019-01-01 4:06 PM, Robert Jones wrote: I think you will find that Big Ben is temporarily reactivated for the new year chimes. ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs

Re: [LEAPSECS] Celebrating the new year a few seconds late

On 2019-01-01 9:36 AM, Philip Newton wrote: On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 at 15:33, Daniel R. Tobias wrote: A lot of Americans synchronize their new year celebrations to the drop of the ball in Times Square as seen on TV, which means they celebrate a few seconds late because digital TV has an inherent

Re: [LEAPSECS] Celebrating the new year a few seconds late

On 2019-01-01 9:51 AM, Rob Seaman wrote: When quantum TVs hit the market you'll hear half of each individual house cheering and the other half wailing. -- This may create a new phenomenon where everyone in the audience is both dead and alive. I wonder what clinical procedures psychology

Re: [LEAPSECS] Running on TAI

On 2019-01-17 12:38 PM, Steve Allen wrote: On Thu 2019-01-17T18:12:25+0100 Martin Burnicki hath writ: Hm, maybe that was originally the case. I wonder whether the folks who wrote the text just had UTC in mind when they "invented" time_t. The best insight into the POSIX committee was posted on

Re: [LEAPSECS] the epoch of TAI, with no more doubt

On 2019-01-19 7:50 PM, Steve Allen wrote: On Wed 2019-01-16T00:56:19-0800 Steve Allen hath writ: The epoch of TAI, and LORAN, and GPS is 1961-01-01T20:00:00 UT2. Or maybe 1961-01-00 UT2. I took a closer read and cross reference of the relevant issues of Bulletin Horaire and finalized my web

Re: [LEAPSECS] Celebrating the new year a few seconds late

On 2019-01-04 9:14 AM, Jonathan E. Hardis wrote: On Jan 1, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Brooks Harris <mailto:bro...@edlmax.com>> wrote: Back in the days of analog TV (which is still used in some parts of the world) the broadcast TV signal was one of the most stable time sourc

Re: [LEAPSECS] Windows 10 time

On 2019-04-12 11:49 AM, Warner Losh wrote: On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 9:39 AM Brooks Harris <mailto:bro...@edlmax.com>> wrote: Hopefully Linux will follow suit in some manner. This might be accompanied with updating POSIX time in some manner to support Leap Seconds.. Th

Re: [LEAPSECS] Windows 10 time

so presented my work on accurate local time: Accurate Local Timestamps Brooks Harris https://www.ion.org/publications/abstract.cfm?articleID=16763 and Matsakis, Levine, Lombardi at ION last year. I am impressed that Microsoft has managed to go somewhere that POSIX still refuses to go. I agree MS ha

Re: [LEAPSECS] Leap seconds have a larger context than POSIX

On 2020-02-06 5:22 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Hal, It's 2020. How on earth can NTP still not implement UTC correctly, in all cases? Or is it a fundamental NTP design flaw? The Z3801A issue doesn't sound like an NTP problem. This is a known legacy Z3801A f/w or Motorola Oncore problem, yes?

Re: [LEAPSECS] Leap seconds have a larger context than POSIX

On 2020-02-06 9:08 AM, Warner Losh wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 3:22 AM Tom Van Baak > wrote: Hi Hal, It's 2020. How on earth can NTP still not implement UTC correctly, in all cases? Or is it a fundamental NTP design flaw? Design flaw. NTP time

Re: [LEAPSECS] Leap seconds have a larger context than POSIX

On 2020-02-06 7:28 AM, Seaman, Robert Lewis - (rseaman) wrote: Hello all, The fundamental answer / constraint to all questions of engineering, including temporal engineering, is funding. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. "Time" is a vast topic, pretty much as big as "space". Precision timekeeping

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap seconds in POSIX

On 2020-01-30 7:02 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hal, I see some good comments; did you get the answer you wanted? My take: > Does anybody know of a good writeup of how to fix POSIX to know about leap seconds > and/or why POSIX hasn't done anything about it yet? No write-up. No fix. It's not

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap seconds in POSIX

On 2020-02-01 3:01 AM, Hal Murray wrote: t...@leapsecond.com said: I see some good comments; did you get the answer you wanted? Nothing off list, so you have seen everything that I saw. I was hoping that there would be a good white paper or blog that discussed all the possibilities that have

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap seconds in POSIX

On 2020-02-01 9:39 AM, Brooks Harris wrote: On 2020-01-30 7:02 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hal, I see some good comments; did you get the answer you wanted? My take: > Does anybody know of a good writeup of how to fix POSIX to know about leap seconds > and/or why POSIX hasn't done an

Re: [LEAPSECS] Leap seconds have a larger context than POSIX

On 2020-02-03 10:37 AM, Michael Deckers via LEAPSECS wrote: The 1970 report also contains the proposal that the CIPM should be responsible for the definition of UTC, and 49 years later, the CGPM in 2019 seems to have taken on that task with the resolution

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap seconds in POSIX

On 2020-01-27 11:52 AM, Steve Allen wrote: On Mon 2020-01-27T19:33:37+ Tony Finch hath writ: It looks like we're in another long gap, based on the LOD chart and the UT1-UTC prediction. The current gap is now the second longest... In the middle of last year the rotation of the earth

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap seconds in POSIX

On 2020-01-28 12:15 AM, Martin Burnicki wrote: Brooks Harris wrote: Evolution of Timekeeping in Windows https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/networking-blog/evolution-of-timekeeping-in-windows/ba-p/778020 Interesting that they call it "the (r)evolutionary changes to time ke

Re: [LEAPSECS] Leap seconds have a larger context than POSIX

On 2020-02-04 2:54 AM, Warner Losh wrote: Have I forgotten any of the other details of leap seconds that are more tribal knowledge than rigorously specified? Warner I think another unclear topic is when the value of DTAI ("The value of the difference TAI – UTC") is updated. This is not

Re: [LEAPSECS] leap seconds in POSIX

On 2020-01-27 7:38 AM, Warner Losh wrote: On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:17 AM Steve Summit > wrote: Hal Murray wrote: > Does anybody know of a good writeup of how to fix POSIX to know about > leap seconds and/or why POSIX hasn't done anything about it

[LEAPSECS] Using a gyroscope to measure variations in Earth's rotation

Using a gyroscope to measure variations in Earth's rotation https://phys.org/news/2023-09-gyroscope-variations-earth-rotation.html ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs

Re: [LEAPSECS] DUT1 = 0

THE PLANET INSIDE Scientists are probing the secrets of the inner core---and learning how it might have saved life on Earth https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-probing-secrets-earths-inner-core-saved-life-planet An accelerating high-latitude jet in Earth's core

Re: [LEAPSECS] fb/meta join the leap second haters

On 2022-07-26 7:33 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: So looking at the IERS LOD plot going all the way back it seems to me that we have been missing the big signal for about five decades: https://datacenter.iers.org/singlePlot.php?plotname=EOPC04_14_62-NOW_IAU2000A-LOD=224 How did we not

[LEAPSECS] The Variable Earth’s Rotation in the 4th–7th Centuries: New ΔT Constraints,from Byzantine Eclipse Records

The Variable Earth’s Rotation in the 4th–7th Centuries: New ΔT Constraints from Byzantine Eclipse Records https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1538-3873/ac6b56/pdf ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com

[LEAPSECS] Global timekeepers vote to scrap leap second by 2035

Global timekeepers vote to scrap leap second by 2035 https://phys.org/news/2022-11-global-timekeepers-vote-scrap.html ___ LEAPSECS mailing list LEAPSECS@leapsecond.com https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs

[LEAPSECS] Multidecadal variation of the Earth’s inner-core rotation

Terrawatch: why has the Earth’s spinning inner core slowed down? https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/feb/22/terrawatch-earth-spinning-inner-core-slowed-down Multidecadal variation of the Earth’s inner-core rotation

[LEAPSECS] Challenging assumptions: The 8.5-year rhythm of Earth's inner core

Challenging assumptions: The 8.5-year rhythm of Earth's inner core https://phys.org/news/2023-12-assumptions-year-rhythm-earth-core.html Inner core static tilt inferred from intradecadal oscillation in the Earth’s rotation https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-43894-9

Re: [LEAPSECS] negative leap second in 2029?

The Duncan Agnew's paper is behind a Nature paywall. However there's a complimentary version at The Verge; Melting ice, missing seconds. https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/27/24113810/melting-ice-missing-seconds which leads to:

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