Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
As an overseas lister who only gets to occasionally watch Leeds the most depressing thing for me that sank in last night , and you're on a similar track to me here , is how far behind the top of the PL we are. I can't believe we beat this side last time and had honourable losses to other PL opposition - we were miles behind. I haven't thought too much about missing the heady heights Leeds reached before relegation until seeing us being dismantled last night. And yes, any of the subs they brought on last night would be very useful in a white shirt right now. On 21 September 2011 13:47, Robert Heath rhe...@asd.edu.qa wrote: .not as a Leeds fan, so much as as a football fan: The fact that one club can keep so many quality players on their books (paying them astronomical sums no doubt), and rarely play them. Michael Owen probably earns more per week than all the 11 Leeds players. And also the other side of the coin..they have the pick of the best young players from all over the world. It all goes to show that what I have said on this list before (and been shot down in flames every time) is true: Ridsdale was right.10 years ago, the gulf between the haves and have-nots in football suddenly widened to an unbridgeable chasm. Leeds needed to get themselves on the rich side of that gap, and Ridsdale saw that and gambled. But O Leary scuppered the plan, and the rest is tragic history. On a more prosaic note, I am seriously worried about Snodgrass. With Max gone, he needed to really step up, but not only was he crap last night, his attitude was atrocious. TV watchers will have seen him telling Bromby to fack off when the latter was having a go at him for not tracking back before the first goal. And what about Bromby? He always looks OK to me, and I thought he wasn't bad last night, but Grayson doesn't seem to have any faith in him. I have serious reservations about White Nunez. The former has speed and guts, but I fear lacks quality on the ball. The latter just seems to be unreliable. He produces some good stuff, and then the next time he gets the ball he will look useless. I really like Clayton, but I hope he doesn't start thinking he is Steven Gerrard. Glad to see that Brighton are playing a tough match tonight. 4 pts from our next two away games would be great! ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
Leeds needed to get themselves on the rich side of that gap, and Ridsdale saw that and gambled. But O Leary scuppered the plan, and the rest is tragic history. Eh How is O'Leary to blame for Ridsdale's financial idiocy? He didn't agree the ludicrous salaries that bankrupted the club! Ridsdale (and Leighton) scuppered their own plan. Ridsdale gambled all right. He played russian roulette with six bulllets in his revolver. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
I have serious reservations about White Nunez. The former has speed and guts, but I fear lacks quality on the ball. I'm more convinced than ever that White is a left winger, not a full-back. But until we sign another decent left-back, he'll be doing the job he's doing, as he's the best LB we've got. He's very good going forward and he has plenty of pace, but he needs to sharpen up on his defensive positioning. Too many attacks down our left where he's just not there. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
For me, because of his poor buying decisions (irrespective of how much they cost us) and his poor man-management. We had a very large - but very lopsided - talent pool, that all of a sudden stopped performing and I for one think that O'Dreary is entirely responsible for that. Risdales' guilt is, in order: 1. Not sacking O'Dreary approx one year earlier than he did 2. Not having a real replacement lined up (and maybe that's why O'Dreary wasn't sacked earlier) 3. Poor financial management Damian On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 11:56 AM, markbu...@aol.com wrote: Leeds needed to get themselves on the rich side of that gap, and Ridsdale saw that and gambled. But O Leary scuppered the plan, and the rest is tragic history. Eh How is O'Leary to blame for Ridsdale's financial idiocy? He didn't agree the ludicrous salaries that bankrupted the club! Ridsdale (and Leighton) scuppered their own plan. Ridsdale gambled all right. He played russian roulette with six bulllets in his revolver. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
Damian, it wouldn't have mattered if he'd cloned Don Revie from a fragment of bone and appointed him, with Alf Ramsey as his assistant and Alex Fergusion as tea boy. Ridsdale's ONLY crime is financial mismanagement verging on criminal. Our demise was NOTHING to do with the players, the manager or anything to do with football. It was 100% the fault of one of the most incompetent boards of directors in any business, ever. Risk management is a crucial business skill - Ridsdale and Leighton paid no heed to it at all - in fact they knowingly gambled based only on an utterly unachievable scenario - permanent European qualification. The cretins should be in jail. Risdales' guilt is, in order: 1. Not sacking O'Dreary approx one year earlier than he did 2. Not having a real replacement lined up (and maybe that's why O'Dreary wasn't sacked earlier) 3. Poor financial management ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
First of all Mark, I need to stress I'm not picking on you today!! ;-) BUT ... I do think there is a lot of credence in what Damien says. Looking back at that whole saga and the current state of clubs 'chasing the dream', the Ridsdale gamble was/is the only way to break the mould. Teams come and go and flirt with the top 4, but ultimately fail because of a lack of strength in depth, ottenham are the current nearly men and are only nearly men bacause they have not 'done a ridsdale'. Had O'Leary not published that bloody book and, in doing so, alienated a team that was with him and playing care free flowing footy and then got Brian fcuking Kidd in to stifle all that was good about the team, then maybe, just maybe, we would have been succesful in the gamble. Damian, it wouldn't have mattered if he'd cloned Don Revie from a fragment of bone and appointed him, with Alf Ramsey as his assistant and Alex Fergusion as tea boy. Ridsdale's ONLY crime is financial mismanagement verging on criminal. Our demise was NOTHING to do with the players, the manager or anything to do with football. It was 100% the fault of one of the most incompetent boards of directors in any business, ever. Risk management is a crucial business skill - Ridsdale and Leighton paid no heed to it at all - in fact they knowingly gambled based only on an utterly unachievable scenario - permanent European qualification. The cretins should be in jail. Risdales' guilt is, in order: 1. Not sacking O'Dreary approx one year earlier than he did 2. Not having a real replacement lined up (and maybe that's why O'Dreary wasn't sacked earlier) 3. Poor financial management ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
Tim, you need to get it into your head that Ridsdale's gamble could NEVER have worked!!! It's nothing to do with football - it's all to do with the economics of running a business. 95% of our turnover was accounted for by the wage bill. That leaves 5% to cover all other costs, including the punitive interest charged on the borrowings that were used to sign the f*cking players. The only way to pay the interest was to increase the turnover - the only way to do that without having to sell players was to qualify for the champions league, year in, year out. The board should never have allowed Ridsdale to put such a plan into action. Leighton (the star business non-exec) should have stopped it. He didn't. so he's as culpable as Publicity Pete. ZERO risk management. 100% destined to fail. You can convince yourself that O'Dreary's daft book or Brian Kidd or the sodding goldfish are to blame. They aren't. They're just excuses that fans can understand. Look at the balance sheet for the real reasons. There is only one way to live the dream in football - back your ambitions with enormous, private wealth. First of all Mark, I need to stress I'm not picking on you today!! ;-) BUT ... I do think there is a lot of credence in what Damien says. Looking back at that whole saga and the current state of clubs 'chasing the dream', the Ridsdale gamble was/is the only way to break the mould. Teams come and go and flirt with the top 4, but ultimately fail because of a lack of strength in depth, ottenham are the current nearly men and are only nearly men bacause they have not 'done a ridsdale'. Had O'Leary not published that bloody book and, in doing so, alienated a team that was with him and playing care free flowing footy and then got Brian fcuking Kidd in to stifle all that was good about the team, then maybe, just maybe, we would have been succesful in the gamble. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
O'Neill was lined up to replace Graham. He asked for more time to consider the offer. Meanwhile DOL did well as caretaker and Ridsdale decided to give him the job instead. MON would have come, but Ridsdale panicked. There was no replacement lined up for DOL. In fact Ridsdale gave him an unbreakable 5-year contract that was payable IN FULL if he was sacked. More incompetence, and why DOL got an £8 million payoff when he was sacked with four years outstanding. I did not mean to rehash the tired old Who Killed Leeds United ? argument..but, if you believe what Ridsdale said in his book, he DID have a replacement lined up for O Leary, namely Martin O'Neill. He thought the deal was sealed, but it fell through at the last minute (can't remember why.) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
the Ridsdale gamble was/is the only way to break the mould. I agree, Tim, and the Ridsdale 'gamble', whilst foolish in hindsight, was founded on the naming rights of the 'new' stadium, which had 9/11 and the subsequent advertising recession, which killed ITV Digital, not happened would have led to us playing at the XBox stadium. As for his financial mismanagement being criminal, sorry but it doesn't even compare with Lehman, AIG, RBS and f'ing Greece. Cheers Paul ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
The day out at Majestyk was the point that buffeted us followed by the 3-4 loss to barcodes. Both DO'L fault. That lit the blue touch paper. Ridsdale put the gun powder down Sent from my iPhone. Dr Michael Benjamin. Community Psychiatrist. On 21 Sep 2011, at 14:59, Tim Leslie t...@3leafieldvillas.co.uk wrote: First of all Mark, I need to stress I'm not picking on you today!! ;-) BUT ... I do think there is a lot of credence in what Damien says. Looking back at that whole saga and the current state of clubs 'chasing the dream', the Ridsdale gamble was/is the only way to break the mould. Teams come and go and flirt with the top 4, but ultimately fail because of a lack of strength in depth, ottenham are the current nearly men and are only nearly men bacause they have not 'done a ridsdale'. Had O'Leary not published that bloody book and, in doing so, alienated a team that was with him and playing care free flowing footy and then got Brian fcuking Kidd in to stifle all that was good about the team, then maybe, just maybe, we would have been succesful in the gamble. Damian, it wouldn't have mattered if he'd cloned Don Revie from a fragment of bone and appointed him, with Alf Ramsey as his assistant and Alex Fergusion as tea boy. Ridsdale's ONLY crime is financial mismanagement verging on criminal. Our demise was NOTHING to do with the players, the manager or anything to do with football. It was 100% the fault of one of the most incompetent boards of directors in any business, ever. Risk management is a crucial business skill - Ridsdale and Leighton paid no heed to it at all - in fact they knowingly gambled based only on an utterly unachievable scenario - permanent European qualification. The cretins should be in jail. Risdales' guilt is, in order: 1. Not sacking O'Dreary approx one year earlier than he did 2. Not having a real replacement lined up (and maybe that's why O'Dreary wasn't sacked earlier) 3. Poor financial management ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
I agree, Tim, and the Ridsdale 'gamble', whilst foolish in hindsight, was founded on the naming rights of the 'new' stadium, which had 9/11 and the subsequent advertising recession, which killed ITV Digital, not happened would have led to us playing at the XBox stadium. IIRC the plan was to fund the new stadium entirely via naming rights, and presumably a property play at ER. It would have given us a bigger ground in a more remote location. Wouldn't have helped that much, though. The new ground would still have had running costs, and the turnover wouldn't have increased that much. Would we have filled a 50,000-seater ever week? Players' wages would still have been out of control, and we'd still have crashed - probably before Ridsdale's Folly had been built. As for his financial mismanagement being criminal, sorry but it doesn't even compare with Lehman, AIG, RBS and f'ing Greece. It was actually short of criminal. Just incompetent. I don't deny Ridsdale had good intentions, unlike the banks. He was just a useless business manager. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
The day out at Majestyk was the point that buffeted us followed by the 3-4 loss to barcodes. Both DO'L fault. That lit the blue touch paper. Ridsdale put the gun powder down More comfort blanket stuff, Mike. Look at the accounts. It was a business failure, not a football failure. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
Didnt O'Neill formally turn us down? I seem to remember him having a press conference at Leicester saying he was staying there. Sent from my iPhone On 21 Sep 2011, at 13:18, markbu...@aol.com wrote: O'Neill was lined up to replace Graham. He asked for more time to consider the offer. Meanwhile DOL did well as caretaker and Ridsdale decided to give him the job instead. MON would have come, but Ridsdale panicked. There was no replacement lined up for DOL. In fact Ridsdale gave him an unbreakable 5-year contract that was payable IN FULL if he was sacked. More incompetence, and why DOL got an £8 million payoff when he was sacked with four years outstanding. I did not mean to rehash the tired old Who Killed Leeds United ? argument..but, if you believe what Ridsdale said in his book, he DID have a replacement lined up for O Leary, namely Martin O'Neill. He thought the deal was sealed, but it fell through at the last minute (can't remember why.) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
Didnt O'Neill formally turn us down? I seem to remember him having a press conference at Leicester saying he was staying there. Yes, because Ridsdale wanted to make an appointment straight away. O'Neill wanted to come to Leeds - but wanted to leave Leicester in a dignified and professional way, so he asked for more time. But Ridsdale put pressure on him in a take it or leave it kind of way. So he left it. Hence the big announcement about him staying at Leicester. A bit of patience would have clinched the deal in a couple of weeks. Not in the mindset of Top Man's erstwhile sales director, though. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
What I cannot fathom I'd how our debt was unmanageable yet smaller than most teams on the PL today. Sent from my iPhone. Dr Michael Benjamin. Community Psychiatrist. On 21 Sep 2011, at 15:35, markbu...@aol.com wrote: I agree, Tim, and the Ridsdale 'gamble', whilst foolish in hindsight, was founded on the naming rights of the 'new' stadium, which had 9/11 and the subsequent advertising recession, which killed ITV Digital, not happened would have led to us playing at the XBox stadium. IIRC the plan was to fund the new stadium entirely via naming rights, and presumably a property play at ER. It would have given us a bigger ground in a more remote location. Wouldn't have helped that much, though. The new ground would still have had running costs, and the turnover wouldn't have increased that much. Would we have filled a 50,000-seater ever week? Players' wages would still have been out of control, and we'd still have crashed - probably before Ridsdale's Folly had been built. As for his financial mismanagement being criminal, sorry but it doesn't even compare with Lehman, AIG, RBS and f'ing Greece. It was actually short of criminal. Just incompetent. I don't deny Ridsdale had good intentions, unlike the banks. He was just a useless business manager. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
As I said why are others managing their debts. Put another way would Bates have gone under or bluffed cum bull shitted his way through? Sent from my iPhone. Dr Michael Benjamin. Community Psychiatrist. On 21 Sep 2011, at 15:37, markbu...@aol.com wrote: The day out at Majestyk was the point that buffeted us followed by the 3-4 loss to barcodes. Both DO'L fault. That lit the blue touch paper. Ridsdale put the gun powder down More comfort blanket stuff, Mike. Look at the accounts. It was a business failure, not a football failure. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
What I cannot fathom I'd how our debt was unmanageable yet smaller than most teams on the PL today. Firstly, Ridsdale borrowed under very bad terms - punitive interest rates. Most clubs borrow long-term at low rates. Ridsdale effectively bought players at worse ratehs than your credit card. Secondly, we could not service the debt. We did not turn over enough money to generate enough profit to pay the interest. Why? Because 95% of turnover was accounted for by players' wages. Servicing big debts is not easy. This is why Man U is looking at a rights issue in Asia to raise cash in order to pay off some long term debts. Finally, prem clubs turn over more money these days as the Sky money is greater than when Pete was f*cking us over. And many have learned the lessons of our experience. Nevertheless, there are several clubs that are living beyond their means right now. Everton, for example. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
As I said why are others managing their debts. Put another way would Bates have gone under or bluffed cum bull shitted his way through? Bates nearly did go under at Chelsea. But he had the value of Stamford Bridge to fall back on as security against his debts, and was able to locate a sugardaddy to bale him out in the form of R Abramovich esq. He's probably over-cautious as a result of this. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
[LU] The most depressing thing about last night......
.not as a Leeds fan, so much as as a football fan: The fact that one club can keep so many quality players on their books (paying them astronomical sums no doubt), and rarely play them. Michael Owen probably earns more per week than all the 11 Leeds players. And also the other side of the coin..they have the pick of the best young players from all over the world. It all goes to show that what I have said on this list before (and been shot down in flames every time) is true: Ridsdale was right.10 years ago, the gulf between the haves and have-nots in football suddenly widened to an unbridgeable chasm. Leeds needed to get themselves on the rich side of that gap, and Ridsdale saw that and gambled. But O Leary scuppered the plan, and the rest is tragic history. On a more prosaic note, I am seriously worried about Snodgrass. With Max gone, he needed to really step up, but not only was he crap last night, his attitude was atrocious. TV watchers will have seen him telling Bromby to fack off when the latter was having a go at him for not tracking back before the first goal. And what about Bromby? He always looks OK to me, and I thought he wasn't bad last night, but Grayson doesn't seem to have any faith in him. I have serious reservations about White Nunez. The former has speed and guts, but I fear lacks quality on the ball. The latter just seems to be unreliable. He produces some good stuff, and then the next time he gets the ball he will look useless. I really like Clayton, but I hope he doesn't start thinking he is Steven Gerrard. Glad to see that Brighton are playing a tough match tonight. 4 pts from our next two away games would be great! ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
